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New game in development

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voodoodog
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Joined: 07/02/2012
Trail Mat Concepts

I had this idea that is your basic "race & chase" style, but with a twist. Below is the overview:
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"Take a Hike!"
Take a hike on the trail to adventure!
Ages 8 & up
2-6 Players

Object:
Be the first Player to hike the trail from one forest lodge to the other...
and back again if you're up to it!

Components:
Six 10 x10" interchangable Trail Mats
Six Hiker Pawns
One 6-sided Die

Set-up:
Everyone agrees on how far of a hike to take.
Each Trail Mat represents 10 miles. Both Lodge Mats must be used,
so the shortest hike possible is 20 miles, the longest is 60 miles.
Once the distance/number and type of Trail Mats have been decided, begin to
layout the trail by placing down one of the Lodge Mats. Save the other
one until you are ready to finish the layout. Add the other Trail Mats
by lining up the trail connections (red dots) with each other. The completed
trail can be layed out in a wide variety of configurations, allowing for a totally
different route each time the game is played. In addition the trail can be hiked
from either end and in both directions. Starting at one Lodge creates a radically
different hike than starting from the opposite Lodge.

Game Play:
Each Hiker starts out from the same Lodge at one end of the trail. Youngest
Hiker goes first. Roll the die to determine how many spaces to move. If you
land directly on a marked space, follow the directions. No two Hikers can
occupy the same space. If you land on an occupied space on the trail, you must
stop at the space behind them. First Hiker to reach the second Lodge wins!
For an extended game with a new view, once you reach the second Lodge,
hike the trail in reverse back to the first Lodge.

Trail Spaces:
• Trail Sign - Go ahead 4 Spaces
• Map and Compass – Go ahead 6 spaces.
• Snake on trail - Go back 2 spaces.
• Chased by bear - Go back 3 spaces.
• Gather firewood - Wait 1 turn.
• Lunch - Wait 1 turn, double next roll.
• Camp - Wait 2 turns, double next roll.
• Energy Bar - Roll Again.

Special Spaces:
• Shortcut - You must land directly on the shortcut in order to take it.
As with all spaces on the trail, a short cut can work both ways. It can either
send you forward or backward.
• Rocks - Rocky trail slows your progress. Move only 1 space per turn until you
have left the rocks.
• Bridge – Rickety old footbridge slows your progress. Move only 1 space per
turn until you have left the bridge.
• Canoeing - Crossing the lake in a leaky canoe slows your progress. Move only
2 spaces per turn until you have left the water.
• Meadow - Soft marshy grass slows your progress until you have left the meadow.
• Ladder - A rope ladder must be climbed up or down with care. When you come
to a ladder, you must stop there and end your turn. On your next turn, follow the
directions of that ladder space.
• Lost - You and another Hiker have managed to become lost. Trade spaces with the
Hiker who’s turn is next in order.
• Rainstorm / Snowstorm - Bad weather suddenly moves in and you are forced to
go directly to the next campspot. Wait 2 turns, double next roll.
• Mystic Ruins - You venture into an ancient dwelling and are magically transported
to another space on the trail. Go directly to the Mystic Symbol space on that same
Trail Mat.
• Mystic Symbol - Landing next to an old enchanted marking, you are magically
transported to another space on the trail. Go directly to the Mystic Ruins space
on that same Trail Mat.
••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••
I would appreciate any feedback, as there always seems to be lots of great advice here.
I have prepared a low-resolution Print & Play version for download:
http://flyingeyegames.weebly.com/in-development-take-a-hike.html

MarkKreitler
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Joined: 11/12/2008
Lots of good elements

Yo Voodoo,

Love the prototype mats and appreciate the simplicity of the design.

There are some red flags, though. Many of the "special" spaces slow players down. Generally, people perceive this as 'not fun.' If possible, it's psychologically better to reduce the average speed, then "speed up" players to reach the original average speed. For instance, instead of using a 6-sided die with "slow down" spaces, use a 4-sided die and have "speed up" spaces (like "downhill slope," where players can roll a 6-sided die, etc).

Also, there don't seem to be many choices in the game. "Lost" is a nice exception, and sounds fun. Other than that, though, it seems like players need only roll and move, which makes the contest mostly random. Kids in your target age range are likely to feel this, intuitively.

As an example (and *only* an example) of a way around this, think about trail mix. Give each player a "bag" of trail mix (tokens) at the start of the game. Normally, players roll a single die to move, but they can expend up to 3 "servings" of trail mix (1 token / serving) to roll additional dice (1 / serving). Players can choose the best result from the dice they've rolled and move that far. Scatter spaces along the track where players can replenish some of their tokens (e.g., "blueberry bush," or "pecan tree"). Throw in a few "hazards" that players can use to mess with each other (like a sign on the trail that players can turn left or right to force others along longer or more hazardous paths) and you'll add a lot of spice to the game without unduly increasing complexity.

Can't wait to see what you come up with. :)

Mark

voodoodog
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Joined: 07/02/2012
Revision ideas

Mark,
I really appreciate your time and input on "Take a Hike!". It is a rough concept in the first stage of development, as I just came up with the idea this past weekend, but as you know, once the seed of an idea takes root, it starts to grow. I had fun a lot of fun designing the various trail mats, harkening back to my days in the Boy Scouts trekking the entire John Muir Trail in 50 mile bites over the course of six years.
But, I digress. To address the "slow down" spaces, perhaps I just eliminate or decrease the amount of those type of spaces. I wanted to keep the game fairly simple, as far as game play and components needed, plus I wanted to make it accessible for downloading as a print & play, thus the d6. Most folks don't have a d4, unless they play RPGs or similar type of games involving various dice. Plus the d4 would require completely reconfiguring the layout of the spaces and cause problems when encountering the lake, rocks and bridge. As they are all four spaces in distance, a roll of a 5 or 6 can give you the opportunity to skip over those areas. The trail diversion idea is there, only opposite in the form of Shortcuts. Hikers are diverted to the long way around unless they land on a Shortcut. I can't figure out how to divert other Hikers to take a turn any other way, particularly if they are on a different section of trail.
I love, love, love and I mean really LOVE the idea of using "Trail Mix" tokens! I have been thinking about this all morning. I had originally labeled the "Energy Bar" space as "Trail Mix". I thought that "Energy Bar" was more contemporary with the times, but real backpackers know trail mix (or GORP). So, if you don't mind, I want to incorporate your suggestion verbatim into the game. I agree that it would allow players to make decisions at critical points in the game and feel like they have some control over their destiny, other than leaving it totally to chance.
What are your thoughts here:
Each Hiker begins at the Lodge with two Trail Mix tokens per 10 mile mat (ex. three mats would be six tokens, five mats would be ten tokens).

"Normally, players roll a single die to move, but they can expend up to 3 "servings" of trail mix (1 token / serving) to roll additional dice (1 / serving). Players can choose the best result from the dice they've rolled and move that far. Scatter spaces along the track where players can replenish some of their tokens (e.g., "blueberry bush," or "pecan tree")."

This would increase the number of game components and cost, but still quite doable. I figure about 50-60 tokens would be needed. In addition to the replenishing spaces, there could be a "Give one Trail Mix to next Hiker" and a "Get one Trail Mix from next Hiker". I don't want to use "Steal" or "Take", as they are not too PC and if younger kids, who would be a big target audience are playing, I don't want to encourage stealing or taking. Giving and getting is a little tame, but it serves the same purpose.
Now we have what made Las Vegas famous... A game of chance with adventure, highs and lows, some gambling, a little strategy and the opportunity to trip up your opponent! I can see that I'm going to be up most of the night:)
Mark, thank you so very much for your outstanding suggestions and the thought that went into them. I knew I came to the right place for rock solid advice. BGDF has been very, very good to me!!!
-Dirk "Voodoodog" Murset

Qwibbian
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Joined: 10/24/2012
Alternate "trail mix" effect

Dirk, great idea for a fun family game. And I agree, Mark's "trail mix" suggestion is excellent. Another way to use the trail mix could be to simply allow the player to move ahead one additional space if they spend a trail mix token. This way, players get (a little) more control over their movement, and it fits the theme of being able to hike a bit further because you satisfied the munchies. It also avoids the need to throw extra dice and remember all of the previous rolls before deciding which one is best. However, I have to admit there's more thrill to the dice rolling method and hoping to get a perfect roll. :)

I recommend play testing it both ways and deciding which way is more fun to play.

Regards,
Qwib

voodoodog
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Joined: 07/02/2012
Something to chew on

Qwib,
Thanks for the suggestion. Your idea makes sense in the theme of the game, but I do also like the "thrill" to rolling the die an extra time or two, trying to improve your odds. If I limit the maximum number of rolls to three, remembering your previous rolls should not be a real problem unless you have major amnesia or partied a little too much in the '60's and '70's ;)
I love when a plan really starts to come together. The Trail Mix idea is something I need to "chew on". Any and all additional ideas are more than welcome!
-Dirk

MarkKreitler
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Joined: 11/12/2008
Sounding good!

Hey Dirk,

I think you're heading in a great direction. I admire the simplicity of your rules, and I'm honored that you would consider adapting the "trail mix" idea. Take as much as you want. :)

I see what you mean about the 4-sided die problem, and about adding too many counters to the game. I didn't realize it was print-n-play (note to self: read more carefully). Given that constraint, maybe you could have player boards with a "trail mix track". That way, players can move a single token along the track to record their current trail mix level, rather than having to wrangle so many tokens.

I like the "give and take" mechanic. Agreed that you probably don't want "steal" in there.

Qwib's idea seems neat, too. Maybe you could adapt it to apply only in certain cases. For example, you could have a "rock ledge" space, that, when landed on, can lead to a shortcut path if players expend a certain amount of Trail Mix.

Dunno, though -- it's starting to sound complicated -- and I think the clarity of your existing rules is a huge draw.

Looking forward to seeing more.

Mark

voodoodog
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Joined: 07/02/2012
The plot thickens...

Each suggestion I get progresses the scenario of the game further. I am really "stoked" about the whole concept that is evolving and I believe that we may have hit upon something worth developing into a viable project. :)!
Thanks guys! Keep it coming.
-Dirk

Word Nerd
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Joined: 02/02/2012
Two Cents

I'm just going to throw up a few ideas here; do with them as you will.

I've seen games involving motion of player tokens across a grid where crossing each hex side required the expenditure of points from the moving unit's fixed movement allowance (e.g. Panzer Leader). This kind of movement eliminates the need to roll a die (dice), but you could still modify the basic MA however you like (e.g. trail mix bonus; carrying provisions penalty). If players can get a trail mix bonus, why not also reduce their MA by penalizing them for carrying objects (e.g. rope, provisions) or for other reasons (e.g. headwind, fatigue, injury, dehydration, sunburn, cramps, broken shoelace)?

Here are a few more trail concepts for you: fallen tree, trail washout, rockslide, falling rocks, sasquatch crossing, cougar sighting, total solar eclipse, magnetic anomaly, portage, ford stream, cross stream on fallen log, build raft, zip line, stinging nettles, skunk, bees/wasps, blisters, rope swing, crime scene barricade, fishing/hunting licence check, park warden, crazy mountain bikers, lightning strike, forest fire (smoke inhalation), flash flood, capsize canoe.

voodoodog
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Joined: 07/02/2012
Deeper into the woods we go

Wowee-wow-wow! The input from you guys is awesome, and you have contributed to the further evolution of this game.
Mark's idea about the Trail Mix and Trail Mix tracking boards is going to be incorporated, and I like Word Nerd's suggestion to additional type of spaces, just for a little variety. I am considering expanding with an additional four Trail Mats that could incorporate some of the concepts such as fallen tree, trail washout, ford stream, cross stream on log, zip line, nettles, skunk, bees/wasps, forest fire, flash flood and capsize canoe. The crime scene barricade is a little grim and creepy for the theme of the game, but the rest are going in.
I still like the revised movement schematic of a d6, spend 1 Trail Mix for 1 roll, up to three additional rolls and choose the best roll. We play tested 40 miles of trail last night and that mechanic worked quite well. You have to be rather prudent when burning up your rations gambling for a better outcome. It was not always a guarantee for improved movement, but did allow you to avert a tricky space or section and gave you a sense that you were in control of your hike, having to manage your Trail Mix and use it when you really need it, just like a genie's three wishes. You don't waste them on a cheeseburger, fries and a soda.
If you have any other bursts of inspiration, don't hesitate to send them along.
Thanx again, guys!

voodoodog
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Joined: 07/02/2012
Revised and Modified!

After considering all of the input given on "Take a Hike!" I have revised the game to include the above mentioned ideas. With all of the extra space types and modified play, it is a lot to cram onto just 6 Trail Mats, so I am working on including an additional 4 Trail Mats for a total of 10 sections equaling 100 miles. Now that's a hike! The new mats that I have in mind are a Mountain Peak involving a Landslide Detour, a Dense Forest involving a Fallen Tree Detour, a Lake with small islands involving a capsized canoe, and a Valley that involves a zip line.
Revised rules below:
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Take a Hike!
Take a hike on the trails to adventure!
Ages 8 & up
2 - 4 Players

Object:
Be the first Hiker to conquer the backcountry trails from one mountain lodge to the other...
and back again, if you're up to it!

Components:
Ten 10” x10" interchangable Trail Mats (two Lodge sections and eight Trail sections.
Four Backpacker Tracker Mats
Four Hiker Pawns
Eight Marker Tokens
One 6-sided Die

Set-up:
Everyone agrees on how far of a hike to take. Each Trail Mat section represents 10 miles.
Both Lodge Mats must be used, so the shortest hike possible is 20 miles, the longest
is 100 miles. Once the distance / number of Trail Mats has been decided, begin by placing
down one of the Lodge Mats. The first Hiker to reach the first Trail Connection (space with
the Red Dot) chooses the next Trail Mat section to add. The completed trail can be layed
out in a wide variety of configurations, allowing for a totally different route each time the
game is played. In addition the trail can be hiked from either end and in both directions.
Starting at one Lodge creates a very different hike than starting from the opposite Lodge.

Game Play:
Each Hiker starts out from the Lodge with a supply of 2 Climbing Ropes and 1 Trail Mix
ration per 10 miles to be hiked. Ex. If you have decided to hike a total distance of 50 miles
(5 Trail Mats) then each Hiker starts with 5 rations. Use the Backpacker Tracker to keep
track of your supplies by placing a Marker Token on the appropriate spaces.
Youngest Hiker goes first. Roll the die to determine how many spaces to move. If you
land directly on a marked space, follow the directions. No two Hikers can occupy the
same space. If you land on an occupied space on the trail, you must stop at the space
behind them. First Hiker to reach the second Lodge wins!
For an extended game with a new view, once you reach the second Lodge, hike the trail in
reverse back to the first Lodge.

Special Play:
• Trail Mix - Trail Mix can be used if a Hiker would like to re-roll the die in hopes of getting a
better number. 1 Trail Mix per additional roll, up to a maximum of 3 rolls and choose the
best one. It can be useful to bypass another Hiker, a tricky section of trail or land on a
bonus space. Hikers can use a Trail Mix ration anywhere along the trail. Hikers are limited
to carrying a maximum of 17 Trail Mix rations.
• Climbing Rope - The Climbing Rope can be used when a Ladder is encountered.
Normally, when you come to a ladder, you must stop there and immediately end your turn.
Hikers can choose to use the Climbing Rope and continue on with their move without
having to come to a stop. Hikers are limited to carrying a maximum of 5 Climbing Ropes.

Trail Spaces:
• Trail Sign - Go ahead 4 Spaces.
• Map and Compass – Go ahead 6 spaces.
• Snake / Skunk on trail - Go back 2 spaces.
• Chased by Bear / Bees - Go back 3 spaces.
• Gather Firewood - Wait 1 turn.
• Camp - Wait 2 turns, double next roll.
• Energy Bar - Roll Again.
• Trail Mix Cache +2 rations.
• Trail Mix Cache +3 rations.
• Get 1 Trail Mix ration from Hiker who’s turn is next in order.
• Give 1 Trail Mix ration to Hiker who’s turn is next in order.
• Bear steals 1 Trail Mix ration.
• Shortcut - You must land directly on the shortcut in order to take it.
As with all spaces on the trail, a short cut can work both ways. It can either
send you forward or backward.
• Fallen Tree Detour - Landing on a Fallen Tree sends you on a short detour around it.
Take the Detour Path only if you have landed on the Fallen Tree.
• Landslide Detour - Landing on a Landslide sends you on a long detour around it. Take
the Detour Path only if you have landed on the Landslide.
• Rocks / Quicksand - Rocky trail or quicksand slows your progress. Move only 1 space per
turn until you have left the rocks or quicksand.
• Bridge – Rickety old footbridge slows your progress. Move only 1 space per turn until
you have left the bridge.
• Canoeing - Crossing the lake in a canoe slows your progress. Move only 4 spaces
per turn until you have left the water.
• Capsize Canoe – Your canoe has overturned and it takes time to right it. Wait 1 turn.
• Leaky Canoe - Crossing the lake in a leaky canoe slows your progress. Move only 2
spaces per turn until you have left the water.
• Meadow - Soft marshy grass slows your progress until you have left the meadow.
• Ladder - A rope ladder must be climbed up or down with care. When you come to a
ladder, you must stop there and immediately end your turn, even if you have moves left.
On your next turn, follow the directions of that ladder space. You can use 1 Climbing Rope
to continue on with your move without having to come to a stop.
• Lost - You and another Hiker have managed to become lost. Trade spaces with the Hiker
who’s turn is next in order.
• Rainstorm / Snowstorm / Sandstorm / Flash Flood - Bad weather suddenly moves in and
you are forced to go directly to the next campspot to sit it out. Wait 2 turns, double next roll.
• Mystic Ruins - You venture into an ancient dwelling and are magically transported to
another space on the trail. Go directly to the Mystic Symbol space on that same Trail Mat.
• Mystic Symbol - Landing next to an old enchanted marking, you are magically transported
to another space on the trail. Go directly to the Mystic Ruins space on that same Trail Mat.
•••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••
I have uploaded all of the files needed for a Print & Play version, including Trail Mats, BackPacker Tracker Mats, Trail Mix markers, Climbing Rope markers and Hiker markers. Everything you need except one 6-sided die, some paper, a printer
and a few friends or family members.
http://flyingeyegames.weebly.com/take-a-hike-bull-print--play-version.html
Would like to know what you think about the new changes and the game overall.
-Dirk

MarkKreitler
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Looking good!

This is shaping up nicely!

One question: when using trail mix, do you pay before you roll, or as you roll?

For example, say I want to roll a '4' to land on a good spot. Do I pay for three attempts and then roll them, or can I roll once, see if I get a '4', then pay to roll again, up to 3 times?

Mark

voodoodog
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Joined: 07/02/2012
Trail Mix cost

Pay as you roll. I don't want to discourage Hikers from using their Trail Mix and I'm afraid that if they feel like they are getting "burned" by paying for more rolls than they need up front, they may be hesitant about using the Trail Mix. I would rather it be their choice to decide to pay for an additional roll if they feel like they need it.

Horatio252
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Joined: 03/13/2011
I'll Say It

If no one else has the courage, I'll say it: roll-and-move is a tough mechanic to sell to hobby board gamers. I believe that many hobby gamers will put your game back on the shelf once they see that it is roll-and-move with special effect spaces. The trail mix idea mitigates the real problem (no skill involved, all luck of the die), but it won't eliminate the bias against that mechanic.

In my opinion your best bet is to aim for the grade school kid market. Try to displace Candyland and Chutes and Ladders.

I am not trying to be negative. I want you to be the most informed you can be with your eyes wide open about this game's prospects.

voodoodog
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Joined: 07/02/2012
Age concerns

My main target players for this game would be families with kids and possibly scouting groups, classrooms, etc. That is why I set the suggested age at 8 and up. Aspects of Chutes and Ladders and Candyland actually came to mind when I began developing the original idea, so the marketing to that audience is just fine with me. Not necessarily for the hardcore RPG or Military Strategy gamer, unless they might want to take a nice little break from killing nonstop hordes of zombies and hobgoblins ;) I wanted to keep the game fairly simple without needing a 10 page booklet of rules, a bunch of stats to keep track of or a box full of parts and pieces. Suggestions from a few of the other guys here helped evolved it into something a bit more complex, with concepts that I am developing further. I do appreciate you taking a look at "Take a Hike!", and having the "courage to speak up".
I'm all ears when it comes to good advice or comments.
-Dirk

Word Nerd
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Following up

As I understand the present situation, there is only one path between lodges. Now that you have more map segments in the mix, I can see players laying all of them out, creating various lengths of trail between starting and ending points, each with its own set of risks and rewards. This would require a fundamental redesign of your current map segments, but it would then be possible for some players to choose a longer, safer route, while others choose a more direct, riskier route.

My next point comes from personal experience. No self-respecting camp-raiding bear would take only one trail mix unit from a hiker (if there were more than one available). I don't know how this might screw up the game, but have you considered what might happen if a hiker lost ALL their trail mix to a hungry bear?

voodoodog
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Joined: 07/02/2012
I like it!

I like your idea of allowing hikers to have the choice of trails, maybe only at certain points in the game. I would like to have the majority of the trail be commonly hiked by all players, but I am going to work in your idea of having occasional forks in the trail that would be either longer and safer or shorter and riskier to the four new trail sections that I am developing. One is a mountain peak, a canyon surrounded by cliffs, a dense forest, and a lake dotted with small islands, all of which would work nicely for both a hard and easy path. It not only gives players another element of control in their fate, but makes it more like a real life trail.
That ties in with your second point about the bear. I actually had a bear tear open my backpack in Yosemite once, to get an apple that I had stored in one of the pockets, while I was sleeping not two feet away. I learned the hard way why you hang ALL of your food in high a tree! I totally agree that Yogi and Boo Boo would snag every crumb they could get their paws on, and it is another suggestion worth considering. And yeah, I do know how a player would feel because that's how I felt, but I'd rather not repeat it here because this a nice, clean family friendly forum ;)

MarkKreitler
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Thumbs up

voodoodog wrote:
I like your idea of allowing hikers to have the choice of trails, maybe only at certain points in the game.

Thumbs-up for the multiple paths idea!

voodoodog wrote:
I totally agree that Yogi and Boo Boo would snag every crumb they could get their paws on, and it is another suggestion worth considering.

You've got that D6 just sitting around. You could always roll to see how much Yogi and Boo Boo take... :)

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