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New Warhammer Fantasy Card Game Idea

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Calixtus
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So there's two lines, Resource and Battle, with the Resource Line closest to you. Every Unit you place facedown in your Resource Line generates one Resource. Some Cards may be placed faceup in the Resource Line, and still generate Resource, and with some Special Abilities, generate more than one Resource. Tap your Cards in the Resource Line just like in Magic the Gathering. Your Units have six Stats, Cost, Attack, Defence, Health, Initiative and Leadership. So the board is 7 Cards long, and 4 Cards wide, considering both side's Resource and Battle Lines. You may only place Cards in either your Resource Line or Battle Line. When you place a Card down in the Battle Line, it can only Attack a Unit directly in front of it, or to the sides, if it is a Melee Unit. You and your opponent roll a D6, adding to your Attack and the Enemy adding to its Defence, then minusing the Defence roll from the Attack roll, and then substracting from the Health of the Enemy Unit. If there is damage done, but it is insufficient to kill the Enemy Unit, you must roll off a number that is equal to or lower than your modified Leadership that is considered from minusing from the difference of the damage done, and if it is a negative number, the Unit is forced to Retreat. A Retreated Unit allows the Attacker to occupy its previous Area. A Unit that is forced to Retreat when he is in his Resource Line is Routed instead, becoming destroyed immediately. When a Unit is Attacking an Enemy Unit on the same Line, it deals +1 Attack bonus Damage, and benefits +1 Defence as well.

Artillery Units can be placed in the Resource Line, and still Attack Units in the Battle Line as long as they are within range. To move on the board, you can move up to your Initiative, but for each Initiative used up, it might Attack after the Enemy. Ranged Units have a Ranged value, denoting from what distance they can Attack. But Ranged Units suffer -1 Attack and -1 Defence in close combat, unless stated otherwise in its Special Abilities. Knights and other types of Horsemen have Charge, allowing them to Attack first whenever they Move. For each Area they moved to engage the Enemy, gain +1 Attack. If they remain in their Area, and Attacked an Enemy there, then they go by Initiative as usual. Knights have the rule, Mounted, which is a separate value for Movement. They do not use their Initiative, but the Initiative of their Mount. Flying Units can bypass Lines altogether.

Players take turns, alternating from the first to the second and so on. The Phases are: Deployment, Movement, Magic, Shooting, Assault. The point of the game is to destroy the Enemy's 7 Resource Areas. For that, you need Melee Units in the particular Resource Area of the Enemy. The maximum number of Cards that can be used to generate Resource in a Resource Area is 4. A Resource Area has a Health of 5, that the Attacker must roll above. Cards used as facedown Resources add +1 to the Health value for each, and for each point rolled over the threshold of 5, one Resource Card that is facedown is destroyed. A Resource Area that has been destroyed may not generate more Resources. A Unit must stop when encountering an Enemy's Resource Area, unless the Resource Area is destroyed. When first entering the Enemy's Battle Line, the Unit must stop too.

You may place Units together in the same Area. The Leadership value considered is the Leadership of the Unit under Attack. Should there be multiple targets, each Unit targets an individual, separate Unit. Should the Unit with the highest Leadership fail its Leadership Test, all Units in that Area Retreat. Should the Unit under Attack have a Leadership lower than the other Units in that Area, and it fails its Leadership Test, the other Units with the higher Leadership do not Retreat. Each damage against each Unit is taken into account for the modified Leadership roll.

ananda
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Calixtus wrote:You and your

Calixtus wrote:
You and your opponent roll a D6, adding to your Attack and the Enemy adding to its Defence, then minusing the Defence roll from the Attack roll, and then substracting from the Health of the Enemy Unit. If there is damage done, but it is insufficient to kill the Enemy Unit, you must roll off a number that is equal to or lower than your modified Leadership that is considered from minusing from the difference of the damage done, and if it is a negative number, the Unit is forced to Retreat.

First, just to make sure I understand: there are two steps:

1. Attacker and defender each roll 1D6 and add the value to their respective attack and defense values. The difference is the damage (Damage = Attack + 1D6 - Defense - 1D6). If (Damage >= Health), then the defending unit is destroyed.

2. If (Damage < Health), then the attacker rolls 1D6 and compares it to the damage done and their leadership value. If (1D6 - Leadership - Damage < 0) then the unit retreats. [I am much less confident about my understanding of this step than the first]

Two suggestions I would like to make about this combat system.

First, I recommend ditching the defender roll and just comparing Attack + 1D6 to Defense. Rolling dice and adding the value to a number is a moderately expensive procedure for players because it requires both dexterity and addition. For the attacker, the outcomes are either good (your attack is successful) or status quo (the attack fails), so the rewards for the procedure on average feel worthwhile. For the defender, the outcomes are either bad (you fail to defend yourself) or status quo (the attack fails). On average, the procedure does not feel worthwhile and does not add anything to the defender's experience.

Second, it might just be that I don't understand the leadership mechanic, but requiring a second die roll for each partially successful attack sounds obnoxious; the number of procedures needed to resolve a game event should be proportional to the importance of the game event, and a single battle between two cards does not sound that important. Would it be so bad if partially damaged units automatically retreated, or at least retreated based on criteria that do not involve rolling dice?

That said, I like how partial damage doesn't involve placing damage counters but still has consequences; keeping track of damage is annoying in games where units have health, and this is a nice solution.

Calixtus
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My reply

I really like the Resource mechanic of the game I came up with. Any Card can be a Resource, and some of them can even be placed faceup and still generate Resources.

Peasant Militia

C:1 A:1 D:0 H:2 I:3 L:6

May be placed faceup in the Resource Line to generate 2 Resource.

This is an instance of a Unit in the game.

Also, you got Leadership wrong. You take the difference between Attack and Defence, then minus it off from the defeated party's Leadership, then rolling lower or equal than the modified Leadership in order to pass, failing at which causes your unit to Retreat.

Also, you do indeed have to take note of Damage, in this game called Wounds. Should we have it otherwise, and perhaps come up with our own IP?

ananda
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Calixtus wrote:Also, you got

Calixtus wrote:
Also, you got Leadership wrong. You take the difference between Attack and Defence, then minus it off from the defeated party's Leadership, then rolling lower or equal than the modified Leadership in order to pass, failing at which causes your unit to Retreat.

Sure, I figured I was probably getting something wrong. It doesn't affect my advice about not rolling dice for retreats.

Calixtus wrote:
Also, you do indeed have to take note of Damage, in this game called Wounds. Should we have it otherwise, and perhaps come up with our own IP?

I didn't realize that you track damage. I think the retreat system makes it possible to not track wounds and still have being damaged be consequential (and not tracking wounds is a major advantage for a combat system).

I'm not sure how wounds factor into the decision of using your own IP one way or the other; why does the Warhammer IP require that you track wounds?

I Will Never Gr...
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Initial thoughts..

Calixtus wrote:

Also, you got Leadership wrong. You take the difference between Attack and Defence, then minus it off from the defeated party's Leadership, then rolling lower or equal than the modified Leadership in order to pass, failing at which causes your unit to Retreat.

This feels like a lot of work for minimal results. Have you tried simply rolling less than/equal to leadership without doing any modification to the leadership?

Quote:

Also, you do indeed have to take note of Damage, in this game called Wounds.

How do you envision tracking damage?

Quote:
perhaps come up with our own IP?

100% yes.

I am not a lawyer and all that goes with that however, chances of getting the rights to use the Warhammer IP are slim without being a well known name in the industry (and having a bucket of money to do so). I can't see any reason that you need the Warhammer IP beyond the obvious recognizability, but you need to get the rights to use it from Games Workshop before you go any further with it.

Re-themeing should be simple. Generic fantasy, sci-fi, modern, historical .. really anything should work with this.

Calixtus
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My clarification

Warhammer has three rolls, compared to my two. And the game works for them. I envision tracking damage with Wound Tokens. If I didn't modify the Leadership, not only will it be less thematic, but much harder to force a Retreat, or Rout.

Calixtus
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If the Defender doesn't roll

If the Defender doesn't roll for his Defence, that will make them die too easily. They will easily be outclassed by the Attackers.

ananda
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Calixtus wrote:If the

Calixtus wrote:
If the Defender doesn't roll for his Defence, that will make them die too easily. They will easily be outclassed by the Attackers.

You can compensate by increasing all defense values by 3 or 4 points.

Jay103
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I Will Never Grow Up Gaming

I Will Never Grow Up Gaming wrote:

100% yes.

I am not a lawyer and all that goes with that however, chances of getting the rights to use the Warhammer IP are slim without being a well known name in the industry (and having a bucket of money to do so). I can't see any reason that you need the Warhammer IP beyond the obvious recognizability, but you need to get the rights to use it from Games Workshop before you go any further with it.


The chances of having anyone even ACKNOWLEDGE your request are slim to none.

Calixtus
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Here are some Unit Examples

Humans

Peasant Militia

Civilian: May be placed faceup in the Resource Line to generate 2 Resource.

Dwarfs

Clansman

C:3 A:3 D:3 H:4 I:2 L:9

Stout: Clansman do not have reduced Initiative from Marching.

Mental Fortitude

Axehand

Throwing Axes: +1 Attack, Range 2, two Attacks.

Hammerhand

Shieldwall

Shieldwall: The Shieldwall may not be Flanked.

Calixtus
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ananda wrote:Calixtus

ananda wrote:
Calixtus wrote:
If the Defender doesn't roll for his Defence, that will make them die too easily. They will easily be outclassed by the Attackers.

You can compensate by increasing all defense values by 3 or 4 points.

That is honestly a bad idea. It will destroy the balance of the game, it works better if both Attacker and Defender rolls for combat.

Calixtus
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Latest edit

So there's two lines, Resource and Battle, with the Resource Line closest to you. Every Unit you place facedown in your Resource Line generates one Resource. Some Cards may be placed faceup in the Resource Line, and still generate Resource, and with some Special Abilities, generate more than one Resource. Tap your Cards in the Resource Line just like in Magic the Gathering. Your Units have six Stats, Cost, Attack, Defence, Health, Initiative and Leadership. So the board is 7 Cards long, and 4 Cards wide, considering both side's Resource and Battle Lines. You may only place Cards in either your Resource Line or Battle Line. When you place a Card down in the Battle Line, it can only Attack a Unit directly in front of it, or to the sides, if it is a Melee Unit. You and your opponent roll a D6, adding to your Attack and the Enemy adding to its Defence, then minusing the Defence roll from the Attack roll, and then substracting from the Health of the Enemy Unit. If there is damage done, but it is insufficient to kill the Enemy Unit, you must roll off a number that is equal to or lower than your modified Leadership that is considered from minusing from the difference of the damage done, and if it is a negative number, the Unit is forced to Retreat. A Retreated Unit allows the Attacker to occupy its previous Area. A Unit that is forced to Retreat when he is in his Resource Line is Routed instead, becoming destroyed immediately. When a Unit is Attacking an Enemy Unit on the same Line, it deals +1 Attack bonus Damage, and benefits +1 Defence as well.

Artillery Units can be placed in the Resource Line, and still Attack Units in the Battle Line as long as they are within range. To Move on the board, you can Move up to your Initiative, but for each Initiative used up, it might Attack after the Enemy. This is called Marching. Ranged Units have a Ranged value, denoting from what distance they can Attack. But Ranged Units suffer -1 Attack and -1 Defence in close combat, unless stated otherwise in its Special Abilities. Knights and other types of Horsemen have Charge, allowing them to Attack first whenever they Move. For each Area they Moved to engage the Enemy, gain +1 Attack. If they remain in their Area, and Attacked an Enemy there, then they go by Initiative as usual. Knights have the rule, Mounted, which is a separate value for Movement. They do not use their Initiative, but the Initiative of their Mount. Flying Units can bypass Lines altogether.

Players take turns, alternating from the first to the second and so on. The Phases are: Deployment, Movement, Magic, Shooting, Assault. The point of the game is to destroy the Enemy's 7 Resource Areas. For that, you need Melee Units in the particular Resource Area of the Enemy. The maximum number of Cards that can be used to generate Resource in a Resource Area is 4. A Resource Area has a Health of 5, that the Attacker must roll above. Cards used as facedown Resources add +1 to the Health value for each, and for each point rolled over the threshold of 5, one Resource Card that is facedown is destroyed. A Resource Area that has been destroyed may not generate more Resources. A Unit must stop when encountering an Enemy's Resource Area, unless the Resource Area is destroyed. When first entering the Enemy's Battle Line, the Unit must stop too.

You may place Units together in the same Area. The Leadership value considered is the Leadership of the Unit under Attack. Should there be multiple targets, each Unit targets an individual, separate Unit. Should the Unit with the highest Leadership fail its Leadership Test, all Units in that Area Retreat. This is called Panic. Should the Unit under Attack have a Leadership lower than the other Units in that Area, and it fails its Leadership Test, the other Units with the higher Leadership do not Retreat. Each damage against each Unit is taken into account for the modified Leadership roll.

let-off studios
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Some Feedback
  • Unlike some other feedback you've received, I like having opposed rolls. There are enough possible modifiers to make the battles interesting and dramatic. Pay attention to playtesters and determine if the extra calculation takes away from the drama of the battles.
  • When it comes to Units retreating, I don't recommend allowing the attacker to immediately occupy the retreating Unit's previous space, unless instant movement is a special ability (like a mounted or exceptionally quick Unit, for example).
  • Panic seems debilitating, and completely at the mercy of the throw of a die. Do you have a special ability where some units are immune to Panic? If you make it a mid- or high-level Leadership Unit, they should have fair resistance already, but even at that point, a Unit that is Routed and pushed off the board through no fault of its own seems unfair.
  • By awarding a +1 to both Attack and Defense for attacking a Unit in the same line, it seems like those two bonuses cancel one another. Unless the +1 Defense is only for a Unit that makes their way into their opponent's Battle Line? I couldn't tell immediately, but I imagine that's what you intended.
  • It doesn't seem to me that a Mounted Unit needs a separate Initiative for its mount. Is there a point during a battle in which a Unit loses its mount, but remains? Would switching out the card for an un-mounted Unit card be a more effective method of communicating this? It seems cumbersome to indicate that it's the Mount's initiative that matters, when it's just one card. ...Or are you stacking cards on top of one another to indicate a Unit is Mounted?
  • The choice to have Artillery Units employed in the Resources line is an interesting one. I strongly recommend you avoid allowing Artillery of any type to generate Resources and/or add health to other Resource cards, as this will force players to make the choice of Resources or Artillery taking up the limited space available.
  • If Flying Units can bypass lines, how do you indicate their current position? Again, are you stacking cards for this purpose? How do you indicate the difference between a Unit that is in the air versus on the ground?
  • Oh, and unless you work for Games Workshop already, I agree with the others that you should avoid the goal of licensing their product line.

Hopefully these thoughts and questions are useful for you as you develop your idea further. Best of success to you. :)

Calixtus
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Some responses

Yea, they are, thanks. The Mount may Attack, so their Initiative has to be taken into account. That said, the Warhorse special rule allows the Mount to ignore reduction in Initiative when Moving.

For why your Units occupy a Retreating Units' Area, it is for a tactical choice.

And yes, I do have a special ability that "Quells Panic".

You wanna work on a race? I will work on the Humans, Dwarfs, and Elves.

Should we have a only a maximum of 4 Cards allowed in any one Area?

Calixtus
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New rule

If there is damage done, but it is insufficient to kill the Enemy Unit, you must roll off a 2D6 that is equal to or lower than your modified Leadership that is considered from minusing from the difference of the Wounds suffered, and if it is a negative number, the Unit is forced to Retreat.

Calixtus
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New rules too

When a Unit is Charging (which means Moving in in order to Attack) an Enemy Unit on the same Line, it deals +1 Attack bonus Damage, and benefits from +1 Defence as well. This is called Flanking. If rolling a double "1" for your Leadership Test, you gain Insane Heroism, and automatically pass, regardless of modifiers.

Calixtus
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Underground Tunnel Network

Underground Tunnel Network: Dwarfs can carve out an Underground Tunnel Network from the Resource Line, by having one of their Sculptors positioned in a Resource Area, thus allowing them to travel to any position in their Resource Line, through the Network, regardless of the Units' individual Initiative. This is only possible if their Architects first design the schematics required for the Underground Tunnel Network.

Calixtus
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2-Player Fantasy Card Game Version 2

A Deck consists of 60 Cards, and you can have up to 4 of any individual Card in the game.

So there's two lines, Resource and Battle, with the Resource Line closest to you. Every Unit you place facedown in your Resource Line generates one Resource, and are called Developments. Some Cards may be placed faceup in the Resource Line, and still generate Resource, and with some Special Abilities, generate more than one Resource. Tap your Cards in the Resource Line just like in Magic the Gathering. Your Units have six Stats, Cost, Attack, Defence, Health, Initiative and Leadership. So the board is 7 Cards long, and 4 Cards wide, considering both side's Resource and Battle Lines. You may only place Cards in either your Resource Line or Battle Line. When you place a Card down in the Battle Line, it can only Attack a Unit directly in front of it, or to the sides, if it is a Melee Unit. You and your opponent roll a D6, adding to your Attack and the Enemy adding to its Defence, then minusing the Defence roll from the Attack roll, and then substracting from the Health of the Enemy Unit. If there is damage done, but it is insufficient to kill the Enemy Unit, you must roll off a 2D6 that is equal to or lower than your modified Leadership that is considered from minusing from the difference of the Wounds suffered and if it is a negative number, the Unit is forced to Retreat. A Retreated Unit allows the Attacker to occupy its previous Area, on the passing of an Initiative Comparison, where the Attacker rolls and adds to its modified Initiative from Marching and the Defender does the same, as long as if it is greater than or equal to the Defender's Initiative roll. A Unit that is forced to Retreat when he is in his Resource Line is Routed instead, becoming destroyed immediately. Should the Unit be destroyed immediately during battle, the Attacker automatically occupies the Defender's location, without need to roll an Initiative Comparison. When a Unit is Marching (which means Moving in in order to Attack) an Enemy Unit on the same Line, it gains +1 Initiative and deals +1 Attack bonus Damage, while benefitting from +1 Defence as well. This is called Flanking. If rolling a double "1" for your Leadership Test, you gain Insane Heroism, and automatically pass, regardless of modifiers.

When you place a Card down, it can Attack either Units in front or to the side.
1-Both Players roll a D6, adding to their Attack and Defence values respectively.
2-Attack roll subtracts Defence roll, to get Wounds suffered.
3-If result is equal to or lower than 0, nothing happens.
4-If result is higher than 0, the Unit is either Destroyed, OR, if the Wounds suffered is insufficient to Destroy it outright, roll 2D6, and compare it to the modified Leadership, which is modified by the difference of the amount of Wounds suffered, rolling equal to or lower than it, in order to pass it.

Artillery Units can be placed in the Resource Line, and still Attack Units in the Battle Line as long as they are within range. To Move on the board, you can Move up to your Initiative, but for each Initiative used up, it might Attack after the Enemy. This is called Marching. Ranged Units have a Ranged value, denoting from what distance they can Attack. But Ranged Units suffer -1 Attack and -1 Defence in close combat, unless stated otherwise in its Special Abilities. Knights and other types of Horsemen have Charge, allowing them to Attack first whenever they Move. For each Area they Moved to engage the Enemy, gain +1 Attack. If they remain in their Area, and Attacked an Enemy there, then they go by Initiative as usual. Knights have the rule, Mounted, which is a separate value for Movement. They do not use their Initiative, but the Initiative of their Mount. Flying Units can bypass Lines altogether.

At the beginning of your Turn, draw a Hand of 5 Cards. If you have less than 5 at the end of your Turn, draw back up to 5. Players take turns, alternating from the first to the second and so on. The Phases are: Deployment, Magic, Shooting, Movement, Assault. The point of the game is to destroy the Enemy's 7 Resource Areas. For that, you need Melee Units in the particular Resource Area of the Enemy. The maximum number of Cards that can be used to generate Resource in a Resource Area is 4. A Resource Area has a Health of 5, that the Attacker must roll above. Cards used as facedown Resources add +1 to the Health value for each, and for each point rolled over the threshold of 5, one Resource Card that is facedown is destroyed. A Resource Area that has been destroyed may not generate more Resources. A Unit must stop when encountering an Enemy's Resource Area, unless the Resource Area is destroyed. When first entering the Enemy's Battle Line, the Unit must stop too.

You may place Units together in the same Area. The Leadership value considered is the Leadership of the Unit under Attack. Should there be multiple targets, each Unit targets an individual, separate Unit. Should the Unit with the highest Leadership fail its Leadership Test, all Units in that Area Retreat. This is called Panic. Should the Unit under Attack have a Leadership lower than the other Units in that Area, and it fails its Leadership Test, the other Units with the higher Leadership do not Retreat. Each damage against each Unit is taken into account for the modified Leadership roll.

Calixtus
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2-Player Fantasy Card Game Version 3

A Deck consists of 60 Cards, and you can have up to 4 of any individual Card in the game.

So there's two lines, Resource and Battle, with the Resource Line closest to you. Every Unit you place facedown in your Resource Line generates one Resource, and are called Developments. Some Cards may be placed faceup in the Resource Line, and still generate Resource, and with some Special Abilities, generate more than one Resource. Tap your Cards in the Resource Line just like in Magic the Gathering. Your Units have six Stats, Cost, Attack, Defence, Health, Initiative and Leadership.

So the board is 7 Cards long, and 4 Cards wide, considering both side's Resource and Battle Lines. You may only place Cards in either your Resource Line or Battle Line. When you place a Card down in the Battle Line, it can only Attack a Unit directly in front of it, or to the sides, if it is a Melee Unit. You and your opponent roll a D6, adding to your Attack and the Enemy adding to its Defence, then minusing the Defence roll from the Attack roll, and then substracting from the Health of the Enemy Unit. If there is damage done, but it is insufficient to kill the Enemy Unit, you must roll off a 2D6 that is equal to or lower than your modified Leadership that is considered from minusing from the difference of the Wounds suffered and if it is a negative number, the Unit is forced to Retreat. A Retreated Unit allows the Attacker to occupy its previous Area, on the passing of an Initiative Comparison, where the Attacker rolls and adds to its modified Initiative from Marching and the Defender does the same, as long as if it is greater than or equal to the Defender's Initiative roll. A Unit that is forced to Retreat when he is in his Resource Line is Routed instead, becoming destroyed immediately. Should the Unit be destroyed immediately during battle, the Attacker automatically occupies the Defender's location, without need to roll an Initiative Comparison. This occupation of a Defender's location is only true should there be no more Defending Units in that Area.

When a Unit is Marching (which means Moving in in order to Attack) an Enemy Unit on the same Line, it gains +1 Initiative and deals +1 Attack bonus Damage, while benefitting from +1 Defence as well. This is called Flanking. If rolling a double "1" for your Leadership Test, you gain Insane Heroism, and automatically pass, regardless of modifiers.

When you place a Card down, it can Attack either Units in front or to the side.
1-Both Players roll a D6, adding to their Attack and Defence values respectively.
2-Attack roll subtracts Defence roll, to get Wounds suffered.
3-If result is equal to or lower than 0, nothing happens.
4-If result is higher than 0, the Unit is either Destroyed, OR, if the Wounds suffered is insufficient to Destroy it outright, roll 2D6, and compare it to the modified Leadership, which is modified by the difference of the amount of Wounds suffered, rolling equal to or lower than it, in order to pass it.

Artillery Units can be placed in the Resource Line, and still Attack Units in the Battle Line as long as they are within range. To Move on the board, you can Move up to your Initiative, but for each Move you make an Initiative is used up, so it might end up Attacking after the Enemy. This is called Marching. Ranged Units have a Ranged value, denoting from what distance they can Attack. Knights and other types of Horsemen have Charge, which states for each Area they Moved to engage the Enemy, gain +1 Attack. If they remain in their Area, and Attacked an Enemy there, then they go by Initiative as usual. Knights have the rule, Mounted, which is a separate value for Movement. They do not use their Initiative, but the Initiative of their Mount to determine the distance they can Move. Their Mount can Attack too, and take into account their modified Initiative after Marching, unless specified by a Special Ability. Flying Units can bypass Lines altogether.

At the beginning of your Turn, draw a Hand of 5 Cards. If you have less than 5 at the end of your Turn, draw back up to 5. Players take turns, alternating from the first to the second and so on. The Phases are: Deployment, Magic, Shooting, Movement, Assault. The point of the game is to destroy the Enemy's 7 Resource Areas. For that, you need Melee Units in the particular Resource Area of the Enemy, or Shooting at it with Siege Engines and Fire Arrows. The maximum number of Cards that can be placed facedown and used to generate Resource in a Resource Area is 4. A Resource Area has a Health of 5, that the Attacker must roll above. Cards used as facedown Resources add +1 to the Health value for each, and for each point rolled over the threshold of 5, one Resource Card that is facedown is destroyed. A Resource Area that has been destroyed may not generate more Resources. A Unit must stop when encountering an Enemy's Resource Area, unless the Resource Area is destroyed. When first entering the Enemy's Battle Line, the Unit must stop too.

You may place Units together in the same Area. The Leadership value considered is the Leadership of the Unit under Attack. Should there be multiple targets, each Unit targets an individual, separate Unit. Should the Unit with the highest Leadership fail its Leadership Test, all Units in that Area Retreat. This is called Panic. Should the Unit under Attack have a Leadership lower than the other Units in that Area, and it fails its Leadership Test, the other Units with the higher Leadership do not Retreat. Each damage against each Unit is taken into account for the modified Leadership roll.

let-off studios
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Projects & Playtests

Calixtus wrote:
You wanna work on a race? I will work on the Humans, Dwarfs, and Elves.
I appreciate the offer, but as it happens I have other things I'm working on.

Calixtus wrote:
Should we have a only a maximum of 4 Cards allowed in any one Area?
Playtesting can most effectively help you sort this out. Try it yourself to see how it feels, then when you're pleased with the effect, invite others to playtest and gauge their reaction to see if you need to make tweaks to your original formula.

Calixtus
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2-Player Fantasy Card Game Version 4

A Deck consists of 60 Cards, and you can have up to 4 of any individual Card in the game. You also have 1 Lord Card, that can be played anytime during your Turn, by paying its Cost. Lord Units confer their Leadership to surrounding Units and those in its Area, for all their Leadership Tests, as well as quelling Panic in those regions. Should the Lord Card be destroyed though, you immediately lose the game. Lord Units can always be placed above the Unit Limit of 4, even if there is already a Champion and Hero there. The First Player may not send Units into the Enemy's Battle or Resource Lines, on the first Turn of the game.

So there's two lines, Resource and Battle, with the Resource Line closest to you. Every Unit you place facedown in your Resource Line generates one Resource, and are called Developments. Some Cards may be placed faceup in the Resource Line, and still generate Resource, and with some Special Abilities, generate more than one Resource. Tap your Cards in the Resource Line just like in Magic the Gathering. Your Units have six Stats, Cost, Attack, Defence, Health, Initiative and Leadership.

So the board is 7 Cards long, and 4 Cards wide, considering both side's Resource and Battle Lines. You may only place Cards in either your Resource Line or Battle Line. When you place a Card down in the Battle Line, it can only Attack a Unit directly in front of it, or to the sides, if it is a Melee Unit. When Marching in to Attack, do an Initiative Comparison, to see who Attacks first. The one that Attacks first is the one with the higher Initiative. If the Initiative is the same, they Attack at the same time. This is called an Engagement.

The side that Attacks first rolls a D6, adding to its Attack, while the Defender rolls a D6, adding to its Defence. Then you minus the Defence roll from the Attack roll, and then substract from the Health of the Enemy Unit to determine the total amount of Wounds loss. The Attacker then becomes the Defender, and the same is done. The modifier for the Leadership Test is the difference between the higher number of Wounds caused from the lower. If there are Wounds caused, but it is insufficient to kill the Enemy Unit, you must roll off a 2D6 that is equal to or lower than your modified Leadership that is considered from minusing from the difference of the Wounds suffered from both sides, and if the roll off is greater than the modified Leadership, the Unit is then forced to Retreat.

A Retreated Unit allows the Attacker to occupy its previous Area, on the passing of an Initiative Comparison, where the Attacker rolls and adds to its modified Initiative from Marching and the Defender does the same, as long as it is greater than or equal to the Defender's Initiative roll. This is called a Sweeping Advance. A Unit that is forced to Retreat when he is in his Resource Line is Routed instead, becoming destroyed immediately. Should the Unit be destroyed immediately during battle, the Attacker automatically occupies the Defender's location, without the need to roll an Initiative Comparison. This Occupation of a Defender's location is only true should there be no more Defending Units in that Area. Occupation of the Enemy Unit is only possible should the Attacking Unit be the one who Initiatied Combat. Should the Attacking Unit, otherwise known as the Unit that Initiated Combat, lose the Combat by suffering more Wounds, it rolls for Leadership Test as usual, to see if it Retreats. The Defending Unit does not get to do a Sweeping Advance however, or is it allowed to Occupy the Area, if it destroys the Attacking Enemy Unit.

When a Unit is Marching (which means Moving in in order to Attack) an Enemy Unit on the same Line, it gains +1 Initiative and deals +1 Attack bonus Damage, while benefitting from +1 Defence as well. This is called Flanking. If rolling a double "1" for your Leadership Test, you gain Insane Heroism, and automatically pass, regardless of modifiers. Defending Units that are Attacked multiple times, do get to Attack back an equal number of times, however suffering 1 Stamina loss for each further Attack against it. Once a Unit suffers Initiative loss equal to 0 or less, it may not act, not even Defending itself in Combat. Initiative is always returned to its full state after the end of a Player's Turn.

When you place a Card down, it can Attack either Units in front or to the side.
1-Both Players roll a D6, adding to their Attack and Defence values respectively.
2-Attack roll subtracts Defence roll, to get Wounds suffered.
3-The same is repeated, with the Attacker being the Defender next.
4-If the damage is insufficient to outright destroy the losing Unit, it has to take a Leadership Test.
5-Then taking the result of the higher Wounds loss minused the lower number of Wounds to get the Leadership modifier, which is subtracted from the Leadership of the loser that suffered more Wounds, and that the loser must roll equal to or lower than in order to pass the Leadership Test.
6-Should the 2D6 roll be greater than the modified Leadership, the Unit is forced to Retreat.

Artillery Units can be placed in the Resource Line, and still Attack Units in the Battle Line as long as they are within range. Artillery Units placed in the Resource Line may however not Attack the Enemy's Resource Area, unless they are in your Battle Line. To Move on the board, you can Move up to your Initiative, but for each Move you make an Initiative is used up, so it might end up Attacking after the Enemy. This is called Marching. Ranged Units have a Ranged value, denoting from what distance they can Attack. Knights and other types of Horsemen have Charge, which states for each Area they Moved to engage the Enemy, gain +1 Attack. If a Unit remains in its Area, and Attacked an Enemy there, then it goes by Initiative as usual. Knights have the rule, Mounted, which is a separate value for Movement. They do not use their Initiative, but the Initiative of their Mount to determine the distance they can Move. Their Mount can Attack too, and take into account their modified Initiative after Marching, unless specified by a Special Ability. Flying Units can bypass Lines altogether.

At the beginning of your Turn, draw a Hand of 5 Cards. If you have less than 5 at the end of your Turn, draw back up to 5. Players take turns, alternating from the first to the second and so on. The Phases are: Deployment, Magic, Shooting, Movement, Assault. The point of the game is to destroy the Enemy's 7 Resource Areas. For that, you need Melee Units in the particular Resource Area of the Enemy, or Shooting at it with Siege Engines and Fire Arrows. This action of Attacking a Resource Area is called Sieging. Ranged Units usually do not have the ability to Siege Resource Areas. The maximum number of Cards that can be placed facedown and used to generate Resource in a Resource Area is 4. A Resource Area has a Health of 5, that the Attacker must roll above. Cards used as facedown Resources add +1 to the Health value, and for each point rolled over the threshold of 5, one Resource Card that is facedown is destroyed. A Resource Area that has been destroyed may not generate more Resources. A Unit must stop when encountering an Enemy's Resource Area, unless the Resource Area is destroyed. When first entering the Enemy's Battle Line, the Unit must stop too.

You may place Units together in the same Area. The Leadership value considered is the Leadership of the Unit under Attack. Should there be multiple targets, each Unit targets an individual, separate Unit. Should the Unit with the highest Leadership fail its Leadership Test, all Units in that Area Retreat. This is called Panic. Should the Unit under Attack have a Leadership lower than the other Units in that Area, and it fails its Leadership Test, the other Units with the higher Leadership do not Retreat. Each damage against each Unit is taken into account for the modified Leadership roll.

There is a limit up to 4 Units you can have in a single Area. Champions are special Units that can be placed one above the Unit limit, and they confer their Leadership for Leadership Test made by any of the Units there. Friendly Units may Move pass but not onto an Area with the max limit of 4 Units already. Units mark out their reduced Initiative through blue Stamina Tokens, which like red Wound Tokens, determine the loss of Stamina for your Units.

Heroes are Lord Units that may have up to the limit of 4 copies in a Deck, but may only have 1 in play at any time. They can be placed even if the Area has already up to 4 Units in it, and even if there is a Champion leading the 4 Units. Like Champions, they confer their Leadership to any Unit in the same Area as them. Heroes are usually capable combatants, while Lords may just have strong buffing effects.

questccg
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Just as some "ideas"...

If you are making a Warhammer "Card Game" ... I would strongly ENCOURAGE the use of Miniatures in combination with a playmat (or board) you can find in say CMON's "Hate":

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cmon/hate

Here is the Trailer/teaser video which is no longer available from KS:

https://youtu.be/srq6ECieEg8

Using CARDS in TANDEM with MINIS would be IMHO AMAZING! And HATE is sort of a "bridge" game offering both miniatures and some kind of "campaign-oriented" game.

Sorry I didn't read (tl;dr) your entire thread... I just read the title "Warhammer" and knew about the minis offered in that game ... And that you wanted to examine a "Card Game". It's pretty SMART to use someone ELSE's IP... Why bother to MAKE miniatures, if all you need to do is write rules to indicate what cards play with what mini, etc.

Usually we try to "summarize" our game rules or issues to reduce the amount of clutter in a thread. TL;DR posts often go ignored. Anyways wishing you the best of luck with your card game.

Cheers!

Note #1: I'm NOT telling you to get IP rights for Warhammer. I'm just saying, you can present it in a way that allows gamers to INFER that this Card Game is to be used with Warhammer Minis.

I'm not sure LEGALLY (you can consult with an IP lawyer)... But you can say something to the extent of: "To be used in conjunction with the extensive 40k miniatures product line."

It doesn't say "Warhammer" and it doesn't even say "Games Workshop"...

But you get the IDEA right from the get-go: it's to be used with Warhammer 40,000 minis. They can't sue you for this... You're not using any COPYRIGHTED names or REGISTERED branding.

And referring to individual MINIS would be tricky too. You've also got to be aware that you can't STATE the identical unit... But who fncken cares when you can INVENT your own NAMES! Who care if the players make mistakes with the minis... What matters is that the game is FUN. It doesn't need to be PERFECT!

So if you're SLY about it... And not obsessed with perfection, you can EASILY "encourage" players to use their Warhammer 40,000 miniatures to play this "Card Game" of yours.

Wishing you all the Best!

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