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Addition through subtraction

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Thu, 06/16/2016 - 20:19
Squinshee
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I've been obsessing over my latest game, Crystal Clash, tweaking it and playtesting it almost daily. It's been getting better with each iteration, but it was still overly restrictive and didn't allow for the simple, emergent style of gameplay I was striving for.

Then I thought to myself, "What if I remove the mana system (crystals as it were) that governed what players could play?" It was a radical change that would change pretty much everything, but with it gone, it allowed for increased player agency while also simplifying the entire design. This change, along with another minor change, vasty sped up the game, made turns far more exciting, and decreased complexity and downtime.

My big takeaway is that you need to eliminate mechanics that aren't in service of how the game wants to play. I liked the idea of saving up crystals to play cooler monsters, but that one cool idea was dragging the good ideas down. See what happens when you hack mechanics off that aren't essential. You may find a better game.

Now my biggest problem is that my game needs a new name, but I think that's a good problem to have.

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Thu, 06/16/2016 - 22:11
#1
questccg
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Sounds like a positive outcome...

Having "crystals" sounded a little like "mana" in Magic. And conversely might imply a form of "Land Cards" (or cards by with you use to "generate" mana).

I might have a suggestion... It may work or it may not.

You obviously won't like it - but I'll state it here - for what it is worth.

  • Instead of completely removing the "Crystals" from the game, consider a new way of "using"/"having" them.
  • Each card you have in your hand is DUAL-SIDED. Yeah I know you don't like the idea of having dual-sided cards. But hear me out...
  • On one side of the card, is the card itself with all of its information, card detail, etc.
  • On the BACKSIDE, in the center of the card is the "Crystals" this card produces...
  • Why on the backside??? Well because the idea is this: you can put cards in play as "CRYSTALS" or use enough "CRYSTALS" to put into play another card FACE-UP (card itself)

Why would you possibly want this?

Well it introduces an interesting paradigm/strategy. Namely do you use a card on the table for "Crystals" to HELP you to put cards in PLAY. Or do you use the card as-it-is given the "Crystals" you already have in play.

Sets up for some difficult choices/strategy...

Just some thoughts as I read your OP! Cheers!

Note: it's just an idea. You may have to put into play a restriction of something like 5 "Crystal" card in play (Flip-side/Back-side)...

Note #2: And why on the "back-side", well because you may want to HIDE what the card is actually (on the Front/Face-side)... Because you may want to use this card at another time...

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Thu, 06/16/2016 - 22:34
#2
Squinshee
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I hadn't thought of a

I hadn't thought of a mechanic like that, but what makes the game shine at the moment is how synergistic all of the minions are and finding fun ways to play them together. Limiting which minions a player can play makes it less open-ended and creative. And since they all cost nothing, I can make them all super splashy and fun to play, because they're all powerful. Games only take around 7 turns, which are simultaneous, so it's fast and fun. Currency only slows the game down.

But I have to remember playing cards as mana for a future design because I really like that mechanic. It's a fun choice to make.

EDIT: Actually, I could design a hero in my game around that mechanic. Hmmm, good food for thought.

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Thu, 06/16/2016 - 22:50
#3
questccg
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Good depth of strategy

What I like about it is two-folds:

  1. You have to make a "choice": is this a mana card or am I wanting to use it?
  2. Secondly it another way of "keeping card" you may want to play at a later time. Nothing forbids you from taking a "Mana card" and putting it back into your hand...

Next thing, you're going to be like Hamish and try to buy my "Crystal HEROES" domain name!!! ROFLMAO

Just kidding... I am using a similar "choice" mechanic in my own game. For example: Do you use a "+1 Resistance until destroyed" on one of your starships OR do you keep it in your deck because it is worth 4 resource points (5 being the maximum...)?!?!

Cheers!

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Thu, 06/16/2016 - 23:54
#4
Cool Among Camels
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Curious

How do you control the pace of the game? If there are no costs, would it be possible to throw down, say, 10 cards at once? Is it more about hand management than resource management?

I'm not meaning to criticize, I'm honestly just curious. In fact, I'm curious about the design in general. Do you have any sort of documentation that is available to look through?

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Fri, 06/17/2016 - 01:39
#5
Squinshee
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My design docs and rules are

My design docs and rules are crazy out-of-date, but once I update them I'll send you what I'm working on.

As far as pacing, each player has an action per turn, which is almost always used to summon a minion from your hand, although some minions has strong abilities that cost your action. And some minions grant bonus actions. You draw a new minion each turn, so your supply is frequent.

After each player uses their action, it becomes the combat phase. Each player selects a combat card from their hand and simultaneously reveal. It's a simple RPS system to determine the winner, and winning lets you damage and tap opposing minions in different ways.

Tapping and killing opposing minions is vital because each minion has a dominance value. After combat, both players sum all their untapped minions' dominance, and whoever has a higher total wins dominance. Winning dominance damages the opposing hero, where the damage done is equal to half of how much you won dominance by, rounded up.

That's pretty much a turn. Next turn, both players draw a new minion and untap their minions. Games are lasting around 8-9 turns at the moment. I'm now working hard at making the minions synergize with one another is as much as possible, to create all kinds of fun interactions.

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Fri, 06/17/2016 - 02:35
#6
Cool Among Camels
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Dominance and Balance

If you get a print-and-play up some time, let me know. I'm interested in trying your design.

I do have a question about dominance. You say damage is dealt equal to half of the value that you won by. So, lets say I have 10 dominance and you have 7. First, we have to subtract the values (3), then we have to half that (1.5), and then round it up (2), dealing 2 damage. This isn't so complicated, but systems like these to tend to feel cumbersome at times.

Have you tried simplifying this? Maybe you just deal 1 damage if you win in dominance. I apologize for giving feedback without actually playing the game. Out of the rules you explained, however, this rule stood out as the one that might be the most convoluted.

Also, I'm curious as to how you balance the minions. If you have no resource to weigh their power against, how do you tweak them? Most games make minion power relative to cost. What is your method?

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Fri, 06/17/2016 - 07:44
#7
Squinshee
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Indeed, I'm not 100% happy

Indeed, I'm not 100% happy with how many steps it takes to calculate dominance. There are a few ways I can think of to simplify it but it would take some retweakimg of many stats. I want there to be incentive to always keep increasing your total dominance, not just trying to have 1 more than your opponent. And dominance tends to deal 80% of damage to heroes at the moment, which feels pretty on point.

As far as balancing the minions, I have three stats to tweak: HP, Dominance, and its ability. Between these three things, I have found a surprising amount of flexibility for balance. Maybe a minion has 2HP, 3DOM, and an ability that could triggers each turn for great payoff (like, whenever you summon a minion, deal 3 damage to target minion). The types of triggers synergize with each other depend on the hero you're playing as. So the necromancer gains value from sacrificing her minions, and the earth shaman gains value by interacting with cocoons. These themes help homogenize the types of things you can do. Or another could just be a vanilla 5HP, 5DOM. The more conditional the ability, the stronger the payoff needs to be.

I think what I'm also realizing is that, due to my combat system, minions don't all need to be perfectly balanced. It's OK if a few are stronger than others (not to the point of game-breaking though).

I'll send you a PnP when it's ready.

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Fri, 06/17/2016 - 08:36
#8
X3M
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In a sense. You are saying

In a sense. You are saying that the balance is practical enough for gameplay. And all pieces have their use.

I congratulate you on achieving this. It is something that most people have trouble with.

I recommend however to track how often a minion is used compared to others, when playtesting. Than you know if one of them needs a little buff or nerf.

If you like, you can post them all here for a quick overview? At least, if it comes to different combat units, I am always all ears.

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