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Heroes of Tersia - looking for playtesters

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MikeyNg
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Joined: 07/12/2012

Heroes of Tersia is a lightweight competitive game for 2-5 players that uses cards and dice in a fantasy setting. It's fast to set up (1 minute) and plays quickly (~30 min).

Right now I'm looking for playtesters - mostly to reassure me that this is as fun as I think it is. :)

Print and play versions and a Tabletop Simulator package can be found on the web site or here:

Rules

Full Print and Play

Low ink Print and Play

TTS

Thanks for your time!!

kos
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Joined: 01/17/2011
Rules clarifications

A few clarification questions on the rules:

It is unclear what "the board" is. I assume that there is a virtual board with 4 virtual locations on it. But I could be mis-interpretting that.

The rules do not clearly state how to make an attack. I finally found it on the reference card: base attack is 2d6. This is something that should be clearer in the body of the rules or just write it onto the Hero cards.

It is not clear whether or not the target gets to retaliate if it dies.

It is not clear what happens with Boss monsters. I assume that they are shuffled together with the normal monsters to form a deck. I assume that once a Boss is on the board, no more monsters are drawn until the Boss is defeated, and after that monsters can be drawn again as normal.

The above assumption could lead to the situation where a Boss is the last monster on the board and is finally defeated. The Boss is replaced with a new random monster, but all the other locations remain empty, so for the rest of the game there is only 1 location with a monster. I doubt that this was the intent, so it is likely that I am mis-interpretting something.

It is unclear at which point Shayd comes onto the board. Is it when all of the Bosses are defeated? When the monster deck runs out? Some other trigger?

When one Hero kills another Hero, can they take 1 treasure card or all treasure cards from the dead Hero? (The grammar of the sentence is unclear.)

It is unclear whether "deal damage to all enemies on the board" cards affect other Heroes or not.

I am not sure how to interpret "Deathblow" monsters. Does that trigger when a Hero kills the monster, or when the Monster kills a Hero?

The rules imply that there could be multiple monsters on the same square, but it is unclear how this situation could occur.

If one Hero attacks another Hero and there is also a Monster in the same square, does the Monster retaliate?

Regards,
kos

Jay103
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There's an art to writing

There's an art to writing rules, I think. You need a LOT more explanation. This is written by someone who knows all the rules, for someone who knows all the rules.

Setup

Quote:
Each player picks a hero and holds their Hero card. They also draw two Action Cards. Put the boss Shayd on the side. Put 4 standard (non-Boss) Monsters on the board face-up. Roll dice to see who goes first.

Do I choose my hero at random?
Monsters at random? I choose? Each player chooses one?
Is there a deck of just Action Cards somewhere?
Where is "the board"?

Quote:

Prepare (Recharge and Equip): At the start of their turn, players roll the dice and if their roll is higher than the Recharge number on any used Action cards, they can return those to their hand. They can also equip their Treasure cards by placing the cards face-up in front of them. Players discard down to 2 Treasure cards in their hand.

How many dice?
"Used" action cards? When did I use one? Are they sitting on the table after I use them? (I searched down to the bottom and found this information, but.. rules should be readable in order. By the way, that bottom section says that Action Cards are used during my turn, but that isn't even mentioned up here in the "things I'm doing during my turn" section)
I equip treasure by placing it in front of me, and then I discard other treasures, down to 2 I can hold? But I can also hold non-treasures, maybe? Along with my hero card?

Quote:

Engage (or Retreat): Players can either remove their Hero from the board to recuperate, keep their Hero in the same area, or move them to a new area to attack a different Monster. When a Hero recuperates, removes all damage counters from them and end their turn.

My hero is in my hand. You said that at the top.
Again, what is the "board"?
What is an "area"? Just where a monster card is?
You end the hero's turn or my turn?

Quote:
Attack: Players attack one target in their area. (See Combat) That target retaliates. (If there are multiple Monsters, they all retaliate) If a monster dies, award treasure to those in the area, then replace it with a new Monster unless a Boss (green text) monster is already on the board and finally return Hero Cards to the player.

Again, what is an area?
Is there only round of combat, or does it continue until something dies?
Can I attack another hero, then?
If this is all covered in "combat", then don't try to talk about it here.
So the hero card goes into my hand again at end of turn? Or only after a monster dies? How does it get back onto the "board"? Reading the Combat section at the bottom, it says that the Hero stays on the board but not in the area, in which case how does it get back?

This is page 1, and already there are more undefined terms being used than defined terms. It is VERY confusing, and there clearly aren't even all that many rules.

The "Tree of Souls" graphic talks about equipment cards. I'm guessing that's what you used to call treasure cards?

You seem to have left the boss out entirely?

Oh, and how in the world is Fire over Metal, which is basically something impervious to fire, and not over WOOD?

let-off studios
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Video, Feedback, etc.

I've watched your gameplay video, and that clarifies a number of the questions and comments from other forum members. I second the recommendation you spend more time on clarifying your rules sheet so that those who pick up the rules aren't left in the dark on a number of your procedures. Additionally, you can reference your video and direct players to visit a specific link to watch a "how to play" tutorial.

That being said, it was only near the end of the video that Shayd was even mentioned, and that defeating it would mean the end of the game.

A couple other things to mention:

- I like the concept of collecting sets. This certainly gives players something to look forward to. The only trouble is that this is completely random as to whether anyone will collect pieces to any given set, leading to a lot of imbalance and "luck of the draw" scenarios. Having two or three helmets in your own loot pile is great on the surface, but when you can only wear one at a time that's a bummer.

Have you thought of low-, mid-, and high-value treasures instead of a single deck? That way, treasures may be graded and diversified based on the type of creature being defeated. Weaker-powered items could be in the low-value treasure deck, while tough monsters will reward players with those special leg guards from the video, or the "capper" to a set the player has been building.

- Are there any characters who can steal equipment from other opponents beyond the rogue/thief? If not, then the stealing ability needs to be addressed as a potential imbalanced mechanic. The other classes may have other abilities of their own that only their class can do, but I didn't see that in the video.

- Is there any kind of "doomsday clock" or timer in this game? Will Shayd eventually defeat all the players, or is it just waiting there to be defeated? I mention this because there seems to be no reason for players to be in a rush to defeat monsters, perhaps tempting them to pass their turn with the hopes that a weaker monster will be drawn by an opponent for them to defeat later.

///

I like where you're going with this game, and it seems to me that there are a lot of directions you can take it. It kind of reminds me of my early days of D&D and "monty haul" campaigns where the objective was to see how many different types of treasures our DM would give us.

Have fun with your prototype. :)

Jay103
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monty... haul? I can't tell

monty... haul?

I can't tell if that's a clever pun about getting a lot of treasure, or a typo and a reference that doesn't make sense :)

let-off studios
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Yes and No

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MontyHaul

Quote:
A Monty Haul campaign (with a "U") was the generic label for a Game Master (and his/her campaign) who would run adventures that were like game show giveaways, except the questions weren't as hard. Players would end up staggering under the loads of gold and gems (except the encumbrance rules often were ignored as well) and cherry-picking which magic items they wanted to keep because they had so many to choose from. Think of Conan the Barbarian with a Star Destroyer.

Jay103
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Clever pun it is!

Clever pun it is!

let-off studios
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User Error

n/a

MikeyNg
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Joined: 07/12/2012
Thanks! I will take a bunch

This blew up when I wasn't looking. Thanks for the replies, everyone! I will take a bunch of this feedback and rework parts of the rules.

(I could go point by point through here, but you probably don't care THAT much, and if I edit the rules correctly, those won't be questions)

I think some of this is because I've edited the rules DOWN a bunch, and it was probably too much. :)

The elemental hierarchy is taken from the five elements of Chinese alchemy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wu_Xing

Fire melts wood, and metal chops wood. Wood FEEDS fire. (and fire creates earth (ash) and earth bears metal)

DarkDream
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Thoughts on Quick Review of Game

I looked at the rules and watched the video play through.

Here are some things I noticed:

- The rules don't mention the mechanisms of attacking other heroes. How does that work?

- What stops me becoming more powerful than one other player and getting myself and other players to gang up on that player?

- It seems unfair that a player can fight a monster, do most of the damage, suffer getting hit and then another player coming in and easily finishing off the monster and getting a huge reward for doing very little.

- Is a player that gets killed eliminated from the game?

- Seems thematically little weird that a legging would have
an attack value.

I think to really give more feedback on your game, you need to identify who your audience is, what game experience are you trying to achieve, the game length and what makes your game unique from other games out there.

--DarkDream

MikeyNg
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Joined: 07/12/2012
I believe the other questions

I believe the other questions are actually answered in the rules (although I could be wrong - this whole thread is making me re-evaluate my rules...)

DarkDream wrote:

- What stops me becoming more powerful than one other player and getting myself and other players to gang up on that player?

Nothing, really. But ganging up on one player CAN cut both ways, and I think it's just something you get for having any sort of direct PvP interaction in a game. If there are other ways, or if you're not comfortable with that, let me know.

Quote:

- It seems unfair that a player can fight a monster, do most of the damage, suffer getting hit and then another player coming in and easily finishing off the monster and getting a huge reward for doing very little.

It does - I am sacrificing fairness for ease. I had a system earlier that tracked damage by player (color) and that weighs your roll on loot for a monster. The way it currently works is that even if you do put in work, you still have a decent chance at SOMETHING. And you can always go after the person that stole your kill.

Quote:

I think to really give more feedback on your game, you need to identify who your audience is, what game experience are you trying to achieve, the game length and what makes your game unique from other games out there.

Thanks for this. I will definitely be making an introduction section to the Rules that I think will help address most of the concerns in this thread.

Thanks once again for your input!!

kos
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Joined: 01/17/2011
Rules clarifications

Mikey,

Yep, writing rules so that a bunch of complete strangers can actually understand what you meant is hard. Give the rules to 4 people and you'll get 5 different (mis)interpretations.

Keeping the rules as short as possible is desirable, with few special cases. If there are clarifications and corner cases put those at the end, so that you can keep the main body simple to read.

Keep going. This is just a normal part of the "playtesting" saga -- getting your playtesters to understand how they are meant to play without you explaining it to them verbally.

Regards,
kos

Jay103
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Like with everything else,

Like with everything else, writing short rules is harder than writing long rules.

Definitely worth it, but hard.

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