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How complete should your game be before you ask for playtesters

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terrangray
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Joined: 01/31/2015

I have this game, have fleshed out most of the mechanics, pieces. Know, the direction that I am pretty sure I want it to go.
But, there are a couple of key elements that I can't decide on exactly how to proceed.
Once, I get a PnP up can I put a request for testers but in the places I can put in my ways of thinking and ask for the one they prefer?
Or, do play testers expect fully fleshed out game to play and report back.
As, such, the rulebook would be not complete as I haven't finalized the design. So, it could be open to interpretation, which is what I want. It would have enough to be able to set up the game and how to play but in the places where I not sure there would be something to the affect of
Currently I am considering do:
A.......
B....
e.t.c
then the people can try out the way they think is best and explain why they didn't play the other
At least that is my hope

Soulfinger
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Joined: 01/06/2015
Were I your playtester, my

Were I your playtester, my first question would be, "Are you wasting my time?" If I come back to a different game every session because you are still finalizing elements, I'll start to feel like you jumped the gun and don't have a decisive vision for your product. My boredom or aggravation with revisions may compromise my views on the actual game itself, making my input irrelevant. It should be finalized enough that I can envision the game making it to market, because if there is no clear sense of that then I have very little motivation to provide quality feedback.

LordBrand
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Joined: 12/27/2014
It is important that unless

It is important that unless your playtesters enjoy the overwhelming majority of your game, chances are you only get to tap each playtester pool once. You post a PnP on this forum, and some people will take it up and play it... That said, you should definitely go with the idea you think is the best fit (the one that seemed the smoothest/most balanced/fun in your internal playtesting) before you take it to a playtesting group... If it playtests badly, you can change it to your other idea to see how that works.

Some people may get really excited and want to try it the other way, but many people if you had a gaping hole, they are going to be done with your game. In those situations, you want to try a different audience... Maybe print it out yourself and take it to your local gaming store and see if you can get some playtesters.

In the spirit of failing faster (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDjrOaoHz9s), you should make some decisions, test them yourself, and get your game to playtesters as quickly as you can.

Short Answer: You should have a "complete" game before you playtest using the best stuff you've put together, but the reality is that playtesting is performed to help refine, cut, and test features, so you'll never be "done" when you first take a game to playtesting.

Dagar
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Joined: 01/23/2015
You'll most likely want

You'll most likely want dozens of playtests of different iterations of your prject, and you'll want testers that never played your game from time to time to see how well a new player copes with everything your design has to offer at that stage.

So I'd say having a group of friends play it over several iterations is good (at least if they're honest and not holding back their criticism) because that way you'll see what parts work well in which 'environment' of other parts. However, I'd try to get 2-3 foreign groups to test it without my intervention, and at least one of them should try it for the first time.

So instead of putting a PnP of one version out at the 'geek, I'd start with a post offering a PnP to people if they write back and then handing a version only to a few of them.

Josh 'Dagar'

radioactivemouse
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Joined: 07/08/2013
Playtesting

Ultimately, you want to play test as soon as possible. The sooner you have a play test kit, the sooner you start polishing your game.

You'll want to generally categorize your play testing into these phases (though not restricted to):

Alpha - First few iterations of the game. You'll want to test your mechanic to see if it just works. Typically, alpha is just your own personal tests; though in a multiplayer situation you'll want to test with a very select few that can give you real criticism; does the game work? What works? What doesn't? Once you feel like your game is "solid" enough, move to:

Beta - I believe this is where you feel like you are (maybe tail end of alpha). Play with local people. You'll need to see their reactions, their time it takes to "get it", any game breaking mechanics. Anything too over/underpowered? Your play testers should really try and break your game. Iterate, iterate, iterate! Doesn't matter how you label it, just make sure you know the differences between builds. Don't worry about whether or not you're "wasting their time", if they agreed to test your game, use it as an opportunity.

Between Beta and Blind, I suggest doing a test blind (or a few); give the game to people that have never played the game (with rules) and just watch them try and figure it out; you'll learn a lot this way.

Blind - This is where the tire meets the tracks. By this time you should have your game on lockdown, your rules fleshed out, and your numbers tweaked so much you consider it a final game. Find (I don't know how you do this) players that haven't played your game, then give them a copy; credit them in your game as a thank you for their time. Give them something to write their opinions on. Let them figure it out. The hope is that they get it and they have no questions. If they can't understand it, then you're back to beta. If they get it and they love it, you should be closer to sending the game to a distributor and/or to the press.

The point here, despite all the technical terms, is PLAY TEST NOW! In the game I'm making, I got blank cards, penciled in all 100+ cards in my game, then tested it. Then I made another, tested it, then made another. Every time I made a new iteration, I tested it. During this time, I was making my first test kits in Illustrator. Once I finished that, I started play testing with the printed copies of my game. The people that tested my game started to get excited because they felt like they were on the journey with me as I was creating this game. While I was testing with my printed decks, I was making my rules. After tweaking my numbers, fine tuning my rules, and fixing possible game-breaking issues, I pitched it to Victory Point Games.

I passed the first time.

If it wasn't for my constant testing, I wouldn't have passed. Now it's being sent out on blind tests and it's set to be published this year.

You can do it.

firstcultural
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Joined: 09/11/2014
For things that are not yet

For things that are not yet at the fun to play level, I like to playtest as a quick warm-up before a regular gaming session or some other fun activity (such as catching up over a few beers).

Most times you're not going to get more than a half hour in before you realize the game is still broken somewhere and needs to go back to the drawing board.

kevnburg
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Joined: 05/02/2014
Get a Design Group: It Will Help Tremendously

I highly recommend trying to find a group of game designers in your local area or, if none exists, reaching out to find people interested in game design and starting your own meetup group (for an example, see http://www.meetup.com/Middle-Tennessee-Tabletop-Game-Designers/). If you can find a group of people that is interested in game design, you can continuously bounce ideas off of each other and playtest each others' games. When it comes to more wide-scale playtesting, you can work together to get all of your games playtested by strangers, potentially going to conventions together or arranging group events in your city.

When I started designing my first board game in November 2013, I was very lucky to have a regular board game night at my college that I went to on Fridays where I was able to make friends test my game. After a few tests, I proposed the idea of starting a board game design student organization, Vanderbilt Gamecraft, on campus and I got some of these friends to join me in that. Since then we've been helping each other design games quickly and I've developed a lengthy list of game designs at various stages of development. We meet up every Friday to play games and every Sunday to work on designing games, and meeting this frequently and pushing each other to get testable prototypes ready ASAP really helps us to make progress with our games design. Last Sunday we did a 10 minute brainstorming session and, thanks to our general game components library, we were able to test one of the ideas as soon as the designer finished describing it. To get outside playtesters, we hold roughly monthly playtesting events and advertise them across our campus.

If you're interested in trying to start your own group, send me a message and I can help by giving some more information on how I generally run my group. Being the leader of the group and having that commitment has inspired me to more seriously research and think about game design, and I believe that you starting your own group would have the same effect.

terrangray
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Joined: 01/31/2015
Thanks so much people. lots

Thanks so much people. lots to know about and consider. Hopefully, one less stumbling block I may fall over in this endeavour

Radio Prime
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Joined: 04/22/2014
MVP

I don't know if you have already gone and made a decision but I have a suggestion.

You can try to create a minimum viable product prototype, which is to say, a prototype that has the most important components and mechanics that encapsulate the whole of your project.

So create a simple prototype that has keeps all of your important mechanics, the ones that form the game you are envisioning and playtest that. This will make for faster and easier prototyping while also helping you really solidify your core mechanics. Try to playtest this prototype by yourself first and see if it meets a level of fun that can be taken to other to playtest.

Then you should try to playtest with other designers who are more likely to stomach a bare bones game. This should help create a good foundation of mechanics and ideas that can be easily iterated upon with ideas that help improve and support your established mechanics. Lastly you can take this iterated prototype to other friends or even to strangers to gain diverse playtest sessions.

The Professor
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Joined: 10/25/2014
Echoing Statements

terrangray,

I simply want to echo what others have said before me. You cannot get play-testing done too early...having said that, you will want to have it close to a finished product so you're not tempted to make radical changes post play-test. Lord Brand's recommended You Tube video, while applicable to video games, is certainly apt for board game design, as well. To Radio Prime's comment...if you can afford it, and I've developed games for designers who went to places like The Game Crafter and had a prototype made for under $100...if you're budget can handle it...do it. Play-testers like the look and feel of the (near) final game. To the best of your ability, give them that experience.

On another thread, I had mentioned that I'm currently in the throes of developing a WWI Zeppelin game for a designer out of Australia. It's a very cool concept, but the rules are so difficult to understand, I can't get it in front of my play-test groups, because I can't even understand them. So, please make sure that your rules are cogent, clear, and comprehensible...nothing will torpedo a great idea faster than rules which are ambiguous, vague, or completely ill-conceived.

I wish you luck!

Cheers,
Joe

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