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The board sizes

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Wed, 11/27/2013 - 11:06
X3M
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It is about my new prototype, however I wonder if it is placed in the right section.

Ok, since I changed some things dramatically after a question round amongst my followers and on this forum. I had to get rid of stuff they didn't even want to do, like a story.
There is now need to reshape the board itself too. Not only that. But the pieces that I use, and the additional board pieces are in need of change as well. And this prototype should be, well, a "good" prototype. Cardboard and printings pasted on the cardboard.

Basic:
The board is big, consisting out of hexagons (fixed and free). With squared pieces.
The game is a war game. With a lot of units that are each 1 piece.
Number of players is 2 to 3. But 4 and 6 is also possible.

OLD:
My first prototype was all papers. With words written on it and sometimes a colour:
- The pieces themselves where 3 cm x 3 cm. Sometimes stacked to a hight of 20. A player could have 2 or 3 of these stacks on a region.
- Regions: The smaller hexagons where 6 cm on the side (12 cm maximum diameter, 10.4 cm minimum diameter). They are fixed in big hexagons, but I had some free ones for randomizing the map. There are also halves and thirds of these hexagons for the edges and corners. (Water, Forests and Mountains.)
- The overall map was 3 big hexagons attached with each other. Where each contained 36 of the small ones. Lets say a side of 36 cm (72 cm maximum diameter, 62.4 cm minimum diameter) Since there where 3 separate hexagons, they could be placed in a line and forming a 72 cm by 187.2 cm map. Which was useful for the really fast and long ranged units.

Big table needed. I played it on the ground though.

NEW:
Now, for a game where the map has to be more "symmetrical", I am planning on having:
- The pieces are 2 x 2 cm, but now with cardboard, so 1 mm thick. A stack would be 2 cm high.
- The smaller regions having sides of only 4 cm (8 cm max diameter, 6.9 cm min diameter). About 72 in total. Of course, halves and thirds again.
- The big map would have 144 small hexagons. That is 36 more then previous. However, the map itself would be just 1 big hexagon now. A side of 48 cm (96 cm max diameter, 83.2 cm min diameter)

The questions:
First of all, I am not interested in how much it would cost to actually produce this. I do this for fun, not the money.
- Wider, but shorter. It would now fit on round tables. But I am not sure about the size. Are the new sizes doable?
Not to small for the pieces?
Not to big for the board?
- Or should I reduce these sizes to 75%?
Meaning 1.5 x 1.5 cm pieces. And a 72 cm x 62.4 cm board?
- 2 x 2 x 2 cm unit stacks are fine, however, 1.5 x 1.5 x 2 cm unit stacks are not?
It would even be too small now?
And the stack could tumble over easier?
- The big board would have to be folded, I think it is best to fold it into 6. That way we have a flipflap design that turns into a triangular once folded. This triangular has sides of 48 cm as well. The 75% design only 36 cm. That fits nicely in a box?
- I am also in need for a smaller battle board. However, I could integrate this into the big hexagon, shaping it into a rectangle where the battle takes place in the corners. This way, I could allow 4 players to battle at the same time. Would this be smart?
- What are the standard sizes of boxes out there any ways? I can't seem to find a list with all the games and sizes.

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Sat, 11/30/2013 - 11:44
#1
X3M
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I asked around. The only

I asked around.
The only information I got until now is that the A&A board is 50cm x 90cm.
And Risk has 50cm x 75cm.

I have 20mm x 20mm pieces. I don't like them.
And I tried 22mm x 22mm pieces. Only 10% larger, or 21% bigger/heavier. Makes a big difference in how they feel.
However, they are 2 mm thick. I can't thin out those cardboard pieces. My goal is 1 mm thick, but I don't know yet if they are going to feel fine.

Has anyone here experience with the right size of cardboard game pieces?
I will probably modify the board towards the best pieces.

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Sun, 12/01/2013 - 23:21
#2
wazzajack
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Cardboard thickness

Have you considered laminating paper prints as you might get the 1mm thickness you want and even less? Hope this helps.

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Thu, 12/12/2013 - 20:15
#3
X3M
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That is an option.However,

That is an option.
However, due to experience, I decided on having at least 1 mm.
More, and the tower of pieces might fall over.
Less, and they might be blown away.

Most war games with squared pieces have about 1 mm thick.
I also could simply use paper and fold it a few times.

Edit: Folding 1800 pieces? I am such a fool sometimes.

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Thu, 12/12/2013 - 20:15
#4
X3M
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I am starting to like my

I am starting to like my "white board" pieces...
That laminating hint is sure a good one, thanks.

Well, I hope that I understood correct. That laminating is simply adding a plastic layer to paper. Or simply using only a plastic that is cut to pieces.

However, laminating gives its troubles. But is worth the time afterwards once I figured how to get certain ideas done. Back to this later.

000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

Since I have discarded the use of XP counters, and simply use "white board" pieces (laminated nothingness) with white board markers. I am wondering if I should use this as well for the damage counters. It sure would safe me a lot of counters, simply due to the fact that I need only one for each damaged unit.

000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

Might as well turn each unit into a "white board" piece entirely and track XP and damage on it. But the questions in order are:

- How to add colours, laminated paper can get cut, but then falls apart. Maybe we got the bad stuff here in the Netherlands.
- How to differentiate between XP counters and Damage counters if colours cannot be added? Remember, still a prototype running here. No resources for coloured plastics.
- If there is a way? Is it possible to simply laminate the units themselves? --> With some empty squares which indicate XP, Damage, Upgrades. That is the plan. But the problem lays within the falling apart of the pieces. I can only do this if I laminate 1 unit at a time? Which would mean, 1800 papers instead of 20 to laminate!
A little help on that one is appreciated.

000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

The laminated stuff needs some extra cleaning from time to time. For this I use ethanol (I work in a lab :) ) But I can't supply kids with ethanol now, can I? So perhaps there is a better thing then laminated paper. Something that allows a simple rub on the surface to completely remove the marking.

The pens that I use, I figured will be empty someday. Perhaps I need to stick with my classic counters. But that would require me to have about at least the double amount of pieces than that I have now. A game with at least 3600 pieces instead of 1800?

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Fri, 01/10/2014 - 19:29
#5
knightshade
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wow!

Wow! One word... ogre.. o.O

That is a lot of pieces.... cut tge squares first, then laminate and cut between pieces?

Also, my current game has a dice pool for each player of 6 colors of custom dice. I quickly wised up once I counted a minimum of 150 dice in the game, and switched to cubes representing the dice. I don't know if that will help any but...?

What about cheap plastic poker chips. They also come in a smaller 1/2"x1/2" ? Would it be possible?
A more recent battle game on kickstarter had stacking chips to make HP and such that seemed really great considering the ridges on the chips lock together..

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Sat, 01/11/2014 - 08:14
#6
X3M
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Thank you for your reply. It

Thank you for your reply. It has been a while and I have made some tests and changes by then.
This is what I have found out and want to share:

The only laminate machine that I got does A4 paper. Of course I cut the pieces out and try to put them inside this machine separately. But it was such be a hassle in keeping them in place while the laminate machine does its work.
I have decided not to use laminate since whiteboard markings could go off accidentally.

I have found something else though. Plastic lids that are not going to be used on work. Small blue ones of 1 inch wide, but have an edge of 1 cm. And big white ones about 18 cm wide, they are very flat. But I have to cut squares out. I managed about 6 in one cut attempt.

For now, I have (just those 6 for a test) the square pieces printed out on paper. And pasted them on plastic squares...with tape...
The tape looks very good, you can look through it as if the paper is laminated.
I need 3 pieces of this tape every time. One across the middle, and the other 2 on the edges.
On the backside, the tape will only cover like 0,2-0,3 cm. The corners are difficult though. It is relatively robust. And the tape gives a bit of an edge for the plastic to be protected a bit more from being placed on top of others. ---> The whiteboard markings have less accidents.

However, I need to reconsider this too. Perhaps a second layer of tape. Anyway, with the amount of pieces. I might only have the units and the plastic pieces separated. The game mechanic allows for a minimal use of these plastic pieces anyway.

*(<--- important star)Another reason for keeping them separated is:
Players rather have the information on top of an unit. By lifting the stack up at the right height instead of looking on the backside of a piece that has to get pulled out of the stack for this. And if the rest is paper, and there is a plastic piece in between. Players know that there is some information on that unit.

So, paper is separated from the information plastic pieces.
Yesterday I.....:
For thickening the paper, I actually print the units out on stickers now. Then simply put them on thick paper and cut them out again. And now you are thinking, OMG!
Yep, that's right, could have done that too on the plastic pieces. But then again, * is what my play testers want. And it is less of a hassle too. I still have to make edges though to make sure information isn't wiped of accidentally.

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Sat, 01/11/2014 - 08:25
#7
X3M
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knightshade wrote:Wow! One

knightshade wrote:
Wow! One word... ogre.. o.O

That is a lot of pieces.... cut tge squares first, then laminate and cut between pieces?

Also, my current game has a dice pool for each player of 6 colors of custom dice. I quickly wised up once I counted a minimum of 150 dice in the game, and switched to cubes representing the dice. I don't know if that will help any but...?

What about cheap plastic poker chips. They also come in a smaller 1/2"x1/2" ? Would it be possible?
A more recent battle game on kickstarter had stacking chips to make HP and such that seemed really great considering the ridges on the chips lock together..

First part; answered in the previous post in this double post. How I am doing things.

Second part; I use normal dice. I only need about 30 for the really big fights. I only need 1 colour for these dice :). During battle the number of dice diminishes or increases.

Third part; as mentioned in the previous post. If I use these poker chips, I need to have the ability to write things down. Or else their only function would be making thinks thicker.

That game you mentioned. Could you pass a link? Even though chances are almost to none that I would use that. I am curious on how it looks etc. My game will have damage counters. So a healthy default unit will be 1 piece only. ;)

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