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Second tier of "obsolete" units

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X3M's picture
Joined: 10/28/2013

Meat: often takes the hits for the team, is durable
Support: can deal more blows then others in the team, is often not durable
Classes are based on having: Armor, Damage, Speed and Range, or not having those.
There are 2x2x2x2=16 classes.


Regarding my board game based on RTS (not real RTS, just semi turn based)

First round of play testing 1 year ago:
I discovered my balancing formula wasn't right for the entire game.
I looked at the 16 classes of units.
Made a new balancing formula and went from 2 obsolete and 2 less use full down to just 2 less use full.

After some new play testing, even the last 2 classes proved to be use full in combination with their 2 more advanced classes. 1 will always serve as meat and the other will serve as support.

One of these meat/support combination is based on very fast units. With short range.
The "meat" is a bit cheaper than the "support", this because the meat shoots 1 projectile and the support 2 or more.
The main goal of these fast but short ranged units is to ignore armies, move by, and then harass the base instead. If the enemy comes to defend. They run away. A slow and annoying strategy.


Last weeks play testing; some simple skirmishes with only units.

Now the problem lies within these "no base" missions. Then these high speed, low range classes, and all other speed units become less use full. That is 4 out of 16 classes, or 25%! After all, they are relatively more expensive then their slower counter parts.
No base for hit'n'run tactics. (I didn't count the 4 classes of speed + range type of units since those can hit'n'run all other units)

Of course they could still be of some use against ranged units or soft targets. But these are often (good players do always) protected by short ranged meat units. So unless an Event Card for attacking from behind is played. The fast units are the least useful.

Bottom line:
My friends suddenly don't want to use them any more in "no base" missions.

How to tackle this?

I already have a rule that moving objects have only 50% chance of getting hit.
Deepen that one more for different speeds?
But how? What are the best rules?

Speed can vary from 1 to "infinite"
A correct balanced way is basing the hit chance on the 1 divided by the fields that the units move that round.

Shuffling cards on this would take time, I already have reduced many aspects to the same stack of dice. But this one is a tough one to do with dice.

Any thoughts on this?

X3M's picture
Joined: 10/28/2013

Well, me and my buddies think the following should take place.

Getting hit chance while moving:
1 out of (Speed + 1)

When units have a speed of;
0: 100% chance of getting hit
1: 50% chance of getting hit
2: 33% chance of getting hit
3: 25% chance of getting hit
4: 20% chance of getting hit

Although with an average health of 3 x Armor. The true rule should be:

Getting hit chance while moving:
3 out of (Speed + 3)

When units have a speed of;
0: 100% chance of getting hit
1: 75% chance of getting hit
2: 60% chance of getting hit
3: 50% chance of getting hit
4: 42% chance of getting hit
The second one suits the balance best. And all play testers agree on this.

But how to put this in with dice?

X3M's picture
Joined: 10/28/2013
Multiple rolls

Since I have notching else to do but drink and think. I spend my time on this issue. :D
A long one;
- choice of number of rolls
- choice of effects of rolls
- summary
- example
- after testing



Instead of 1 roll. It is better to roll multiple times.
The number of rolls equals the speed of the unit.

However, in the game when someone moves. There are 2 choices in how to roll. Let's take a look at this first.
- The dice effects will be completely based on the unit speed, even if the unit only moves 1 region. There for the fastest units are most durable in the group of the moving units. However a con is that these rolls are to be done in groups compared to the different speed groups. And this in combination with different armor types. Thus with 2 possibilities each, there are 4 groups to roll. And each roll might end up eventually in another group. So this option will not be taken.
- The dice effects are based on the movement of regions. So a speed 7 unit might only move 5 fields and is treated as such. The pro in this is that all units require the same amount of dice rolls. And it can be treated separately from other effects like accuracy and agility/durability. A con is that the fastest units have less profit if grouped in a slow squad. But then again, it works like this in RTS as well.

So I choose the second option.
And this roll can now be done before other rolls or after other rolls. Best to do before since it only occurs when an enemy moves around.



Now to see what effects I can choose from. For this it is good to know that I had chosen the "balanced" version.
Where a speed of 1, has a chance of 3/4th.
And a speed of 2, has a chance of 3/5th.

The game has currently a maximum speed of 7.
However, with XP or Event Cards, this can be temporary/permanent increased.

The results (speed ranging from 0 to 7) are:
100% 75% 60% 50% 43% 38% 33% 30%
This is the balanced list. And keep in mind, the divisions are linear.

Now I have several options with the dice roll:
Each roll has a chance of 5/6th or 4/6th.
However, both are exponential. After all, 5/6th times 5/6th is 25/36th. Not 5/7th or something like that.

5/6th; the results (speed ranging from 0 to 7) are:
100% 83% 69% 58% 48% 40% 33% 28%

4/6th; the results (speed ranging from 0 to 7) are:
100% 67% 44% 30% 20% 13% 9% 6%

Comparing the new options with the balanced version. I noticed that 5/6th per roll has worse chances for the unit. But 4/6th immediately gives extra protection.
However 5/6th too equals in protection at speed 6 and is extra protection in speed 7 and above. 4/6th goes way to fast. And I kept in mind that the map is limited too. (Smart players move back and fort). The risk is always there that players don't shoot when you move. But do an assault instead (move and shoot). Then it is 100% anyway.

So the 5/6th is the choice.



If an moving player gets attacked.
Number of dice rolls equals the number of fields that the squad moves.
Throwing a 6 is a miss.



A squad moves 4 fields. You decide to attack it. With numerous weapons, the shortest range is allowed first. Let's say range 0 in in range:
You have 14 projectiles with damage 1.
You have 6 projectiles with damage 1 and accuracy 4/6th.
You have 5 projectiles with damage 9.
You have 2 projectiles with damage 36.

Field movement effects first:
First you decide on the 14 of 1. The number of dice is displayed.
14 > 12 > 10 > 8 > 7
7 projectiles of 1 damage are left over.

6 of 1, accuracy 4/6th; first the speed factor:
6 > 5 > 4 > 3 > 3
Now the accuracy, that is just on roll:
3 > 2
2 projectiles of 1 damage are left over. Added to the other 7.
A total of 9.

5 of 9:
5 > 4 > 3 > 3 > 2
2 projectiles of 9 damage are left over.

2 of 36:
2 > 2 > 1 > 1 > 1
1 projectile of 36 damage is left over.

The projectiles are placed on the front lines of the enemy (unless an Event Card is played). This can be done in a most optimal way. Thus 36 armor will get the 36 damage first etc. As soon as an unit is supposed to be hit and a agility/durability is part of that unit. Another round of rolls is needed. We take dice in the same amount than that unit has left in health. Meaning, 2 health remaining, 2 dice needed. If one misses. Another roll is added. Until this unit dies. Then the next unit might be normal again and no extra rolls are needed.

As soon as range 0 is played. (The enemy does not return fire since it is moving)
Range 1 is the next. etc.



After testing I also noticed something else. And this brings depth to the game immediately. When a player moves. All other players are allowed to say when and where they attack. However, there are situation where one of the squads has long and short ranged units. Where the short ranged units are blocked by a forest. But the short ranged units are not, from another angle that is. The short ranged unit cannot reach any more at that moment.

Thus the long ranged units fire at a different moment then the short ranged units. It depends on the direction of movement which part goes first. But other players can cut in between with killing units and gaining XP from that.

An extra rule on this is that once you play an action for the attack. You immediately must say when and where the units shoot.


Such Dice Feast. Much Rolls.
Now I hope my friends approve the new rule. Well, not much chances. Just a bit more balance. :)

X3M's picture
Joined: 10/28/2013
Mind the Mines!

Buddy B (wants to remain anonymous, his name starts with B)
loves to use mines.

But with the new rules. Very fast units cross over like if it is notching.
And the mines where supposed to be a deadly wall.

Since mines are suicidal units, we need to increase their usefulness again.
So there should be something like, the shorter the range. The more effect.

I was thinking about using the same rule as regarding to the Armor versus Damage effects.
Where the lowest number counts.
Thus 0 ranged weapons have 100% effect.
And 1 ranged weapons will have 1 dice effect.

So If a speed 7 unit passes by and there are some rifle infantry guarding. Then the minimum would be 2. This means only 2 dice are used.

The question is, should this be based on:
- Unit range?
- The closest passing distance?

I vow for the unit range. Thus passing though the same region would still mean that the rifle infantry need to throw 2 dice. And it is simpler.
After all, when a squad with different ranges shoot at a passing army. The ranges are dealt with 1 by 1 anyway.
And if you approach another player, with the second option they had to count for each possibility, that is annoying.

For the situation of rifle infantry closing in on Snipers. Notching changes with the new rule :)

Now my Buddy B is happy again.

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