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How MUCH for 400 cards???

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questccg
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Okay so I had priced the production of *Individual* Game Sets of 100 cards each. The motivation for this was to lower the initial cost of the game. My philosophy is something like this: either you can pay $35 for a 1 Player Game Set (which contains 100 cards) or ...

The truth is there is NO alternative. Having 400 cards made runs the price to about $35+ to produce! So a four (4) player Versus game requires 100 cards for each player.

If I factor in the price for standard distribution, that would mean that my game would sell for $210!!! Nobody in their right mind will pay over $200.00. Even if you really like the game...

From the other angle, by producing in bulk sets, I can drastically cut down the price of individual game sets so that buying 4 sets would cost about $100.00 (So $25.00 for each set).

$100.00 vs $200.00 is a BIG difference. Aside from being HALF the price, there is also a psychological factor. $100.00 is not cheap - but for what you are getting (400 cards - in 4 game sets) it's actually pretty reasonable.

Tell me what you think!!!

questccg
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My reasoning...

If somebody can go out and BUY a "Magic: the Gathering" (MtG) starter kit, it's about $35.00 and you get 60 cards. BUT your opponent must do the same and then the TCO is $70.00. So for $70.00 you get 120 cards and you can play Head-To-Head with an opponent.

But when you buy the 1 Player starter kit ($35), you cannot play a solitary game (1 Player only). So the TCO is $35.00. Second point is in my game you are getting 100 cards per game set; that's almost double for the same price (100 vs 60).

The artwork on the cards themselves is also very professional and is close to the stunning art of MtG cards.

So I believe that I am offering a good price point for my game...

ErnstFourie
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It sounds fair to say that

It sounds fair to say that you are selling the game for $100 and you get 4 sets, but thats what one guy buys. The friend he plays it with might like his own set, otherwise he won't be able to play with other people.

But aside from only that, two players buying two games get just that, 2 games. Magic doesn't have this problem because each starter set is different from the other one, so even if you spend $70 and your friend spends $70, you could end up with four very different set, with differing mechanics.

It's hard to speak about this without knowing the type of model you are aiming for with your game? Because netrunner sees success, and they have fixed sets and fixed packs that release each month(i think?)

Summoner Wars is very successful as well, and they have different factions in different box sets, and depending on which set you buy, you'll have different teams for each player.

I'd like to know, in your opinion, where you think your game would fall between all these other games?

Cars games are very difficult, because the cult of the new is always looking for something else, something new, something better...

HPS74
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Where are you getting your

Where are you getting your quotes from Kris?

Why not use PrinterStudio or MakePlayingCards...they can do a deck of 108 cards for about $9 if you order 100 sets. They're at the pricey end to boot.

Try a few Chinese manufacturers. LongPack, Wingo, King How Limited all can do cards well and reasonably priced.

I'm always happy to assist if required!

questccg
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Good questions!

Thanks for the reply...

I guess I was leaning towards "Summoner Wars" because in the grand scheme of things, I wanted to create a universe with different races/species. But to be real honest - the problem lies in what to add/create.

I would never be able to keep up with *new* packs each month... Maybe once a year introduce a new *expansion*... but not sure about this.

My idea was perhaps to create an Expansion for the "Exterra Edition" (First Edition, a race similar to our own) which could introduce new mechanics and different styles of gameplay.

But I'm not sure how I could actually vary new races that would actually play differently... That's the thing, if you buy an expansion, you want it to be sufficiently different from the previous game set...

It's why I would explore all kinds of different ways of introducing new cards to the mix - that could alter game play. For example a co-op scenario against a common threat ("Outbreak") or a defensive game against the attacking player ("The Privateer").

So I want to offer expansion - but I'm not 100% sure about how I am going to create those expansions. It would suck if to the base game there would be only like one (1) expansion. I think it would be best if there would be like two (2) or three (3) expansions and maybe then a new race...

Again it's because I'm not sure HOW a new race would be different... I have not really thought about it. My primary concern was adding *new* mechanics to the additional scenarios and altering game play so that it would be different from one scenario to another.

Currently the game features four (4) scenarios. They are similar but offer different end-game goals (multiple players) and one (1) solitary game scenario; which is completely different.

questccg
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Hit or miss?

HPS74 wrote:
Why not use PrinterStudio or MakePlayingCards...they can do a deck of 108 cards for about $9 if you order 100 sets. They're at the pricey end to boot...

But that's the problem, all they do is CARDS. I need dice (7), game mat, rulebook (35 pages), wooden cubes (5) and custom box (with tray).

HPS74 wrote:
Try a few Chinese manufacturers. LongPack, Wingo, King How Limited all can do cards well and reasonably priced.

I have tried in the past without success. The Chinese quote was HIGHER than dealing with a US broker... I am worried that if I counter their price they will compromise on the overall quality of the product, something that I don't want...

Basically they wanted a quantity of 2,500 units which goes into $20k+. I can't afford to pay that much nor order in that quantity...

mindspike
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Scale is killing you.

Scale is extremely important in production, plus there's not a lot of difference in cost between manufacturers. There is a rule of thumb here that when you multiply the quantity by 2 you multiply the cost by .6. You're also hampered by the fact that it is significantly less expensive to produce just cards than it is to produce cards plus any additional component.

A card game without additional components, produced in the US, at a quantity of 5000 units is going to cost about $0.015 per card, plus set up fees. So a 100-card deck will cost $1.50, before packaging costs. This is an average cost based on my experience. A 400-card game (no additional components) plus packaging should cost about $7 to manufacture and ship (at 5000 unit quantity). This puts your retail price at about $30 for a 4-player game.

The same game at a 1000-unit print run will cost about $17 per unit, which still places your retail at about $60. That compares very favorably to big deck builders like Legendary. Don't forget that if you decide to bypass retail distribution in favor of internet-only direct sales, you can cut the retail price to the consumer in half.

My suggestion? Get your components down to just cards and a rulebook.

BubbleChucks
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This place was mentioned on

This place was mentioned on boardgamegeek the other day by W Eric Martin

http://www.boardgamesmaker.com/print/custom-blank-card.html

It seems to be a new initiative from

http://www.makeplayingcards.com/

that offers customer more than just cards.

The price breaks for high volumes look good, but for lower volumes and single prototyping the prices don't come anywhere close to The Game Crafter, nor do they have TGC's extensive product portfolio.

questccg
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Smart idea - Just not for my game!

mindspike wrote:
...Don't forget that if you decide to bypass retail distribution in favor of internet-only direct sales, you can cut the retail price to the consumer in half.

Well if I do that, I kind of cut my possibilities of selling the game via traditional distribution. The idea behind Internet distribution is to be able to offer the game to a world-wise audience. Shipping is costly and also needs to be factored into the price!

mindspike wrote:
My suggestion? Get your components down to just cards and a rulebook.

Yeah - I get where you are going with this. But I want my end-product to have a GAME feel to it. As such, I want the pretty dice, the acrylic cubes, the chipboard mat, etc.

While I don't have a board, I realize that $35.00 for a one (1) player game set is pretty reasonable. With economies of scale, you can get four (4) gamet sets for $100.00 (so $25.00 each). I think with those kinds of savings, I have a pretty good offer to gamers.

mindspike
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Consumers pay shipping.

You might consider following the same road that Cards Against Humanity did. That game was only available by mail order for a long time before it made retail distribution. It's been my experience that when you approach a distributor and can show them an online sales history they are more likely to place a purchase order. Plus, consumers pay shipping; using services like Amazon, you can minimize their cost.

questccg
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Amazon

Winston,

How does Amazon work? I know that a price of $35.00 is the minimum needed to qualify for FREE shipping. And this is great: a one (1) player set will cost $35.00 and would qualify for FREE shipping.

Some questions like:

  • Does the seller need to be in the USA?
  • Can you set up shipping rates according to the delivery destination?
  • Can you choose where you can ship?
  • Do you need to have a US Bank account?

As a Canadian I would love to sell on Amazon.com (not .ca) and ship product to the USA FREE of charge. That would be awesome... I guess I need to explore how Amazon works to know if I can be an International Seller but ship directly from the USA!

Thanks, I will look into this further...

Update: Also Amazon features fulfillment through their warehouses around the USA (I guess...) This might also be interesting in the event that we could use Amazon fulfillment to satisfy backer pledges (Centralize in one single place).

@Mindspike: Do you have any knowledge regarding Amazon Fulfillment???

mindspike
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Fulfillment by Amazon

Amazon can act as a consignment distributor/retailer using the "fulfillment by Amazon option". Essentially, once you are accepted as a producer and your product is accepted for distribution through their site, you ship a quantity of product to whichever distribution center you're assigned. Amazon then uses their distribution system to put your product in their local fulfillment centers. Your product then becomes part of their system. You get paid on consignment.

It's a really good option for everyone involved. It reduces the cost of shipping for the consumer, and handles fulfillment for the producer. The downside is that it ties up a significant quantity of inventory in Amazon's system for which you simply aren't getting paid. In Canada, you sign up with Amazon.ca and ask them for international distribution. If you and your product are accepted, they will handle everything.

This method also requires you to closely monitor your margins. It's easy to wind up losing money if you haven't factored in Amazon's commission correctly. For a really good article on this subject, check out Jamey Stegmaier's blog.

http://stonemaiergames.com/how-to-provide-free-shipping-worldwide-on-kic...

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