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Looking for a Game to be designed!!!

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Lilfisher
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We are a small company who is building a network of distributors with a newly patented fishing pole.

I enjoyed coming here previously with my daughter for designing her game which turned to be a local success by the way.

I am asking for the fellow members to come up with a board game design and make it with fishing needs. Such as including all fish caught in fresh water and salt water around USA and Canada. Also to include creative way to build to have from surf fishing and fly fishing to getting a boat and vehicles for such trips to the ocean to the extreme of the Full time fishing boats or the corporate level. Have this suitable for all ages and using our product line as the equipment. There must be pitfalls of losses such as hurricanes taking out the boats, fires destroy your fishing camp, pole falls off boat by clutz kicking it, REMEMBER these poles DO NOT BREAK!

If anyone is interested in designing this and making this a competition here I would be glad to here from you all here. Our company is willing to Pay the winner a small fee, have them published with your help finding the best deals possible and we will distribute them through our network system for the exclusive rights to the game and solely owned by our company where we will sign a deal to pay a small royalty fee for such game.

Now anymore details and questions can be sent to me at lilfisher@hushmail.com and our products can be viewed at our site which is also a work in process as I am no techie at www.lilfisher.com

Thanks guys and hope to see a few try to do this for us as well will do a good job at getting them out there for your work with your name on each unit too.

Lilfisher
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I take it you have the click

I take it you have the click here and only ones who are here get responses. I appreciate the effort and views anyways. Thanks

Dralius
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I wrote

I wrote lilfisher@hushmail.com this weekend about your offer and have not recieved any reply. If you din't recieve an e-mail from PyroMyth games let me know and i'll resend it.

Meddler
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I'm surprised you haven't got

I'm surprised you haven't got more of a response of this, looks like the sort of thing that should have people quite keen as an opportunity to try and get something into print, foot in the door and all that. I don't have time myself to take a bash at this, but a few things leap out as likely to be helpful to those that might:

- When does the game need to be designed/tested by?

- How many players did you have in mind, particularly important from a design perspective if it needs to handle a very large number (or be only a two player game, though I hadn't got that impression).

- Is it meant to be a quick playing game with a fair bit of luck or a longer, more involved game? I'd been assuming the former, something around the 30-45 minutes mark maybe especially if you really want it aimed at all ages, definitely worth specifying though in my eyes.

- When you say you want a game accessible to all ages exactly what do you mean? I see quite a difference between a game that a family can play together that includes some somewhat complex rules adults/older kids will need to handle/explain at least initially versus something that anyone that can read should be able to pick up almost immediately. Especially important if you want a bit of depth (pardon the phrase) in the game to get a different feel for recreational fishing versus competitive versus commercial - could have some approachs be more straightforward and others more complex to cater to different types of player (though assumedly all with a reasonable chance of winning/having fun).

Hope this helps a bit/you're still checking here - I'm quite sure there's no deliberate snub intended by the lack of responses, just a forum that can be a bit slow moving sometimes :).

GrimFinger
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Lilfisher wrote:I take it you

Lilfisher wrote:
I take it you have the click here and only ones who are here get responses. I appreciate the effort and views anyways. Thanks

I think that it's a great idea. It would require a good bit of research, though, due to the sheer variety of fresh water and salt water fish caught in the US and Canada.

InvisibleJon
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As one of the people who

As one of the people who looked at the thread, then did not reply, I'll speak up. I read the requirements, balanced the amount of research I'd need to do (plus the actual game design and revisions) against the other demands for my time, and realized that I would not be able to commit to producing a high-quality product that met your specifications. Consequently, I did not reply. This probably puts me in a similar boat to Grimfinger:

GrimFinger wrote:
I think that it's a great idea. It would require a good bit of research, though, due to the sheer variety of fresh water and salt water fish caught in the US and Canada.

For me, clique-ish-ness certainly did not act as a factor in my behavior.

I wish you the best of luck in your venture.

Lilfisher
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OK...Let me try this again

OK...Let me try this again

I need a game.....
1) Where children 5+ can learn about fish and different types
2) The game player amount is a free to designers choice
3) The length of game is also optional to the designer BUT would like one similar to game of Life if possible.
4) IF the game is a success on small scale I will get these distributed through our network of national reps.
5)The game designer will also be able to create more than one game
6) Tested and ready to play is totally up to the designers time frame would hope to have it before summer/spring as fishing season opener.
7) Would like the game to not retail over 20.00 as that is an easy sale amount in our markets
8) IF the game needs cards the designer would also need to supply me with the most cost effective way to get these done since I am not in the realm of designing.

People can also email through our corporate website for more info or call me if need be.

GrimFinger
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Lilfisher wrote:1) Where

Lilfisher wrote:
1) Where children 5+ can learn about fish and different types

Designing a game where the entry level age is five years old will probably limit the cross appeal across age levels. Is the game to be aimed at children? Adults? Is it to be a family oriented game? Or, is it to be aimed at those who love fishing?

Lilfisher wrote:
6) Tested and ready to play is totally up to the designers time frame would hope to have it before summer/spring as fishing season opener.

I would advise you to place obtaining a quality product ahead of meeting an artificial deadline, no matter whom you select to design the game in question. You may be pushing your luck, is my gut feeling, where the time frame in concerned. There is research, design, playtesting, refinement, prototype, and production issues, even if it is a relatively small quantity of games that you are looking to start with.

Lilfisher wrote:
8) IF the game needs cards the designer would also need to supply me with the most cost effective way to get these done since I am not in the realm of designing.

I am inclined to believe that you would definitely want to include cards as an element in the design of this game. Of course, at five years old, reading comprehension skills are going to sharply impact how much freedom that the game designer has in what to put on those cards.

If the object is to get kids hooked on fishing, while they are still very young, in the hope that their affinity for fishing will grow as they grow, then simply taking them fishing is probably going to be vastly more successful than having them play the game in question.

I doubt that kids five years old will really care very much about your product line being featured in the game. You can certainly incorporate your product line into the game, but I think that that particular aspect would be suited to an older player base.

Lilfisher wrote:
I am asking for the fellow members to come up with a board game design and make it with fishing needs. Such as including all fish caught in fresh water and salt water around USA and Canada.

I doubt that including all fish caught in fresh water and salt water around the USA and Canada is realistic, if keeping the selling price of the game at or beneath twenty dollars is a pretty firm design criteria. Regardless, I think that you can certainly include a wide variety of fish in the game, and keep the price in that general area or below.

Lilfisher wrote:
Also to include creative way to build to have from surf fishing and fly fishing to getting a boat and vehicles for such trips to the ocean to the extreme of the Full time fishing boats or the corporate level.

Each physical component that you add to the game will cause its price to increase. One of the things that I like about cards as an element of games is that they offer the designer such a great amount of flexibility in the design stage, and on a cost-comparison basis, you can have a good many cards in a game, even as you don't bust your budget producing an end product. And, of course, both text and images can be printed on cards, so you have flexibility in that sense, also.

Lilfisher wrote:
Have this suitable for all ages and using our product line as the equipment. There must be pitfalls of losses such as hurricanes taking out the boats, fires destroy your fishing camp, pole falls off boat by clutz kicking it, REMEMBER these poles DO NOT BREAK!

To convey those consequences, you must have one or more mechanisms in place. Cards would work, as would spaces on a board of some type. Consequences could be printed on either. For younger children, images will be proportionally more important than text, I think, in retaining interest in the game.

If you want to have an actual board, then I would suggest something very colorful, perhaps even comical - something to make the whole experience of fishing come across as a light-hearted, fun affair. Games are supposed to be fun, after all, aren't they?

Lots of details on a map type board can make it interesting. Having exaggerated features on the map can lend itself well to such a game, I think.

Lilfisher
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GrimFinger wrote:Lilfisher

GrimFinger wrote:
Lilfisher wrote:
1) Where children 5+ can learn about fish and different types

Designing a game where the entry level age is five years old will probably limit the cross appeal across age levels. Is the game to be aimed at children? Adults? Is it to be a family oriented game? Or, is it to be aimed at those who love fishing?

Lilfisher wrote:
6) Tested and ready to play is totally up to the designers time frame would hope to have it before summer/spring as fishing season opener.

I would advise you to place obtaining a quality product ahead of meeting an artificial deadline, no matter whom you select to design the game in question. You may be pushing your luck, is my gut feeling, where the time frame in concerned. There is research, design, playtesting, refinement, prototype, and production issues, even if it is a relatively small quantity of games that you are looking to start with.

Lilfisher wrote:
8) IF the game needs cards the designer would also need to supply me with the most cost effective way to get these done since I am not in the realm of designing.

I am inclined to believe that you would definitely want to include cards as an element in the design of this game. Of course, at five years old, reading comprehension skills are going to sharply impact how much freedom that the game designer has in what to put on those cards.

If the object is to get kids hooked on fishing, while they are still very young, in the hope that their affinity for fishing will grow as they grow, then simply taking them fishing is probably going to be vastly more successful than having them play the game in question.

I doubt that kids five years old will really care very much about your product line being featured in the game. You can certainly incorporate your product line into the game, but I think that that particular aspect would be suited to an older player base.

Lilfisher wrote:
I am asking for the fellow members to come up with a board game design and make it with fishing needs. Such as including all fish caught in fresh water and salt water around USA and Canada.

I doubt that including all fish caught in fresh water and salt water around the USA and Canada is realistic, if keeping the selling price of the game at or beneath twenty dollars is a pretty firm design criteria. Regardless, I think that you can certainly include a wide variety of fish in the game, and keep the price in that general area or below.

Lilfisher wrote:
Also to include creative way to build to have from surf fishing and fly fishing to getting a boat and vehicles for such trips to the ocean to the extreme of the Full time fishing boats or the corporate level.

Each physical component that you add to the game will cause its price to increase. One of the things that I like about cards as an element of games is that they offer the designer such a great amount of flexibility in the design stage, and on a cost-comparison basis, you can have a good many cards in a game, even as you don't bust your budget producing an end product. And, of course, both text and images can be printed on cards, so you have flexibility in that sense, also.

Lilfisher wrote:
Have this suitable for all ages and using our product line as the equipment. There must be pitfalls of losses such as hurricanes taking out the boats, fires destroy your fishing camp, pole falls off boat by clutz kicking it, REMEMBER these poles DO NOT BREAK!

To convey those consequences, you must have one or more mechanisms in place. Cards would work, as would spaces on a board of some type. Consequences could be printed on either. For younger children, images will be proportionally more important than text, I think, in retaining interest in the game.

If you want to have an actual board, then I would suggest something very colorful, perhaps even comical - something to make the whole experience of fishing come across as a light-hearted, fun affair. Games are supposed to be fun, after all, aren't they?

Lots of details on a map type board can make it interesting. Having exaggerated features on the map can lend itself well to such a game, I think.


I GUESSS ........

I am saying I am allowing FREEDOM to the designer as long as fishing involved and can incorporate FUN Family oriented and kids can play but also good for adults...Maybe more than one game would be needed and so be it....I am hoping to see results of brainstorms by Xmas and have some finals ready to get going to production BY FEB. and have the game or GAMES ready to be displayed for our Spring shows!!!

The games can be simple or complicated for older people a wide array or assortment and choices make this not a competition but an option for games to be published and distributed as a coop as I am a game lover and have access to a network to distribute them.

Lilfisher
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OK... Maybe we could have

OK...

Maybe we could have several games made.

One with just children age range 5yr + and an dadult one.
I am imagining a card game set for learning fish types but does not have to have ALL. I also envision a colorful board game like "game of Life" where the family could play at table short 30 minute game about fishing and who has the boat tournament champ hat. Maybe a roll out game of plastic like that of the matchbox cars roadmaps done in lakes to be able to fish for different kinds and luck of the draw.

I am not limiting the imagination BUT rather leaving more for the experienced designers and freedom to do as much as they want and how well it turns out. The more choices I have the more I will be able to push out at our spring shows with our product lines. We aim to also expand into more products and games would be a plus in every aspect as we carry all kinds of products from womens clothing to fishing poles and childrens books now so one more product line is just an opening and my thoughts were why go name brand and out of china prints when I can ask local talents here to design and help each other.

I dont think the childrens games should be any longer than 30 minutes BUT adults can get as long as need be or continous play as a collection style game. The options and limitations are very open for the designers. I would like to see photos and rules of games and how long to play game expectations Before Christmas though and sooner if it is simpler styled as sooner the better to get working on making several if need be and work out details of rights and pricing and royalties for the designers.

benshelmars
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InvisibleJon wrote:As one of

InvisibleJon wrote:
As one of the people who looked at the thread, then did not reply, I'll speak up. I read the requirements, balanced the amount of research I'd need to do (plus the actual game design and revisions) against the other demands for my time, and realized that I would not be able to commit to producing a high-quality product that met your specifications. Consequently, I did not reply. This probably puts me in a similar boat to Grimfinger:
GrimFinger wrote:
I think that it's a great idea. It would require a good bit of research, though, due to the sheer variety of fresh water and salt water fish caught in the US and Canada.

For me, clique-ish-ness certainly did not act as a factor in my behavior.

I wish you the best of luck in your venture.

I too looked and did not reply, being new to the site it is impossible for me to have formed such a tight circle with in a short time.

But I will comment now. When I first read this post, I thought that something was "fishy" yes a pun was intended. I guess the warning lights for me were when a "small royalty" was mentioned, and the size of the project. Here is why it bothered me. 1) As far as I know nearly all royalties are small, so if this royalty is smaller still, well I guess soup doesn't really need anything more than hot water and salt. 2) All fish "fresh and salt" water, Boy, I'm glad it was limited to only the US and Canada! 3) I'm sure you get the picture.

I am not writing this to be rude or nonconstructive. But a lot is being asked for and I.m not quite sure whats being offered.

In my opinion, which carries no true value, your presentation seemed like I was being pressured to "Make this!"
I too wish all of us luck, but I believe luck takes a lot of work.

Lilfisher
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I believe I cleared alot of

I believe I cleared alot of those up and as far as SMALL Royalties....well lets say I dont know the average BUT I dont have an issue to work closely with the designer to negotiate what suits us best. If it can meet the expectations and bit and piece together a a suitable arrangement than a game from my understanding usually has a 500-600% mark up rate from what I was told from a member here!

I am aiming for a game which retails at 20.00....make it for 5.00 average and then pay the designer 10% so in easy math 1.50 per game sold. These are estimated numbers and over simplified BUT shall explain my meaning enough.

As for the games intensity level for ALL fish...that was generalized to allow freedom to use as many as you choose and not limit BUT also great with more the merrier. Not a demand.

This should be FUN not a task to play. Educational and funny like the one I read from the monthly competitions on hand truck hauling....thats hilarious and I would carry that as I am aiming for a wide array of products of all categories not only games and not only sporting equipment.

This is an opportunity for those who wish to take the crack at it to work together and if not then so be it. The email has been posted and I will await those who emailed their questions and submissions and dont limit only for fishing but any games which can be easily made or distributed. If you are ready with 500 games then let me know I will negotiate a deal with you to carry them as I am looking at other manufacturers to carry theirs as well.

Good Luck and hope this helps clear those doubts away as its not fishy but an opportunity. Good Luck

benshelmars
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Cleared Up

You did a fantastic job of clarifying and I believe you will become more successful because of it.
Your main product seems to have been put together with a lot of thought and hard work. You have a theme of "Indestructibility, Compact, and Ultimate Survival Gear". I would suggest continuing with this theme with all of you products, as well as the games you would like to represent you. A basic survival type game could incorporate your own product ideas by incorporating your product theme.
For example, assuming the game is a card game, and the players are only allowed a certain amount of cards or card points, a regular fishing pole card might require a separate reel card plus line card and hook card, whereas the Packer Combo card may only require the hook card.

I am a strong believer in themes "specializations" as a quick way to identify someone or something, however I also believe in not being stereotyped, its sort of a catch 22.

seo
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timeframe, royalties, etc.

There was a similar contest posted on this site two years ago; it was an international contest held by the World Bank. Both winners were BGDF members: bluesea and me. So I think I can make a couple informed comments.

At first sight, designing a game to suit specific needs is not necessarily too different from the monthly GDS contests. You have some criteria to meet, but also a lot of room to develop your ideas. But one thing is to come up with a game idea (as in the GDS), and quite another to have a playable game. Sometimes the game will work from the first prototype, and only need minor adjustments, but most times it will take months, if not years, worth of a repeating cycle of testing and making small changes, even if the first prototype works reasonably well.

Designing a specifically themed game takes research. Often a lot of it. That means time. Giving shape to the game mechanics to turn them into something worth of prototyping might take less time than the research, at least in my experience, unless you're already familiar with the requested topic.

Once a game works, it might still take several months of hard work to produce a printer-ready version of it. If you want a quality product, you will need to test every small change to the rules or the components. That takes time.

Most game designers are just hobbyists, which means they don't have lots of time to devote to game design and playtesting, nor access to loads of playtesters. So changing the hand size or the values on the cards or whatever might take one or two weeks to be implemented and tested.

Final graphic design will probably also take several weeks to be done and approved. As will having the game printed and ready to go once you have all the art done.

What do I mean by all this?

a) Even if lots of people around here would love to have a game published, they might not want to invest a huge amount of time and effort designing a game specifically for you. A hired designer would, but from a designer standpoint, there are a lot of contests where you can enter any game you want, no need to design something specific. I won't expect 50 or 100 entries. That said, I don't think there's nothing wrong with your request; had I more available time in my hands, I would at least give it a try with a simple game.

b) Other than really easy to produce ones, I doubt you can have a game created from scratch, playtested, laid out and produced withing the expected timeframe. But maybe someone has a game ready right now that can be adapted to match your thematic needs; that could help a lot. Otherwise, as already said in this thread, you risk ending up with a half baked game.

c) Usual royalties for the designer, AFAIK, are around 5% of wholesale, which is usually around 40-60% of retail. That means your small royalty is way higher that the usual. Evidently, number of copies sold is a big factor when evaluating these numbers. In your example, if you think you can sell 500 copies, your offer is comparable to having 1500 copies sold at 5% or wholesale, which is probably reasonable for a game in the small hobby market.

I wish you good luck on this, and good luck to any BGDF designer submitting a game. I like seeing BGDF members succeed. :-)

Dralius
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That does clear up allot

Lilfisher

Keeping the price down per until will be challenging unless you are looking at having a large number made. I believe Delano will print as few as 1,000 copies, finding someone that will do fewer might be impossible or at least not cost effective since much of the cost of printing is the setup. I’m sure you would prefer to have the game produced by them or another American printer even if the cost per unit is slightly higher than printers overseas.

You can expect to see a design proposal from me by the end of the week.

Darkehorse
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My Comments

I'll chime in regarding this subject.

First, It's great that you are asking this community to submit proposals to produce your game. When I first started this community, one of my goals was to connect people who wanted game designs created to people who could design them. So far this is working out rather well.

Second, your specifications are vague, although you've somewhat cleared them up. But I must admit I'm still a little confused. You may get better results if you lay out what you'd like in a clear and concise manner. Remember, this is a business opportunity. Some of the members here have gotten burned by people promising to publish their games, only to have nothing come of it. You might get a better response from some of these 'gunshy' individuals if you lay out exactly what your requirements are and exactly how you are planning to choose and compensate the designer, as well as who will own Intellectual Property rights of the design, and for how long.

Third, even though you have obvious experience producing fishing equipment, it is unclear as to whether you have experience publishing or distributing games. Saying you're going to do something and having the know how and resources to do it are two different things. Now, I'm not saying you are not capable of doing it, but it is not evident from your posts thus far. The last time I checked, most games were distributed through one of three giant distributors. How do you plan to compete with these distributors? Do you have experience publishing and/or distributing games? If not, perhaps you should look into the process before you offer those services to people.

Just my thoughts. Please know that I'm not trying to discourage you in any way, but just some things to think about.

-Darke

GrimFinger
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Lilfisher wrote:Our company

Lilfisher wrote:
Our company is willing to Pay the winner a small fee, have them published with your help finding the best deals possible and we will distribute them through our network system for the exclusive rights to the game and solely owned by our company where we will sign a deal to pay a small royalty fee for such game.

I don't know how large your network system is, since you don't say, but your distribution system is less of an issue than who will bear the costs of having the game actually published. If your company is prepared to bear the full costs of having it published, then I think that you will probably see more designers warm up to your proposal.

If the games sell, then there is no real problem for anyone involved. But, what if they don't sell? Who is expected to absorb the loss incurred from publishing games that do not sell? Is the designer expected to buy-back the unsold games? Does your company simply absorb the loss?

A small royalty is a very minor issue compared to production/publication costs. At least some would likely be content to design a game for you even for no royalty of sales, if the production costs are covered by someone else (namely yourself). Some would probably do it, just to see their own handiwork in tangible form. Maybe not, but I think so.

No one knows in advance whether a given game will sell. The less time allowed for research, design, and refinement increases the likelihood that a new game will sell less than it otherwise might.

If the designer is to bear the costs of production, and/or if the designer is expected to absorb the cost of the games that do not sell, then I think that very few, if any, would be willing to absorb the risks associated with such, and especially where the idea for the game originates with someone other than themself.

There are many on this site who are certainly capable of designing a game based upon your idea within the time frame in question. Again, though, to be on your shelves ready to sell in time for fishing season to start might negatively impact the quality of the end design.

On a separate note, I do not think that five dollars per copy is a realistic production cost for a relatively small production run for a board game. You probably don't personally care if the cost per unit averages out to five dollars or ten dollars, as long as the end product is within the range of affordability by the average person who might be tempted to give it a try.

You had stated that you would like for it to be similar to the game of Life. I haven't played Life in a long while, and while I understand that you are flexible on the design of the game and that the designer has freedom to design a good product, I think that something along the lines of a game like Life would cost a good bit more than five dollars to produce.

I recall that Life has a board, some car and people components, and various denominations of play money. It also has a wheel thing that one spins to determine movement of their car around the path of life. The board, itself, has components glued to it, doesn't it? You could go with a flat board, of course, but if the designer isn't also an artist, or if you are not an artist, then you are still going to need an artist to create an attractive board for you. Otherwise, you will have to go with a plain and less attractive board, which will probably be less successful at tempting people to buy it and try it.

On a general level, I think that you would be more likely to sell more copies of a game that costs more than twenty dollars than one that costs less than twenty dollars, if you sink more into production costs and create something that is visually tempting than something with a plain and bland look. For novelty type items, I think that that approach makes more sense, even though the financial risk is higher.

GrimFinger
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Lilfisher, I have decided to

Lilfisher,

I have decided to try my hand at designing a fishing board game along the lines of what you are after. Fishing isn't my forte', but let's see if I can make anything come from the undertaking, just the same.

I have started a game journal here, if you wish to check in on it, from time to time:

http://www.bgdf.com/node/402

Lilfisher
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ok quickly here as I am on my

ok quickly here as I am on my way out of State...

I will say YES to the making of 1000 units IF made in USA and even if slightly higher..

The cost will be covered by our company NOT any by the designer
Only expecting the designer TO ASSIST in HELPING FIND the most cost effective to produce their game

Credit will be given to the designer NOT US!!! This is to promote us as a distributor through our network which we are 15 sales teams covering 6 states and growing each month and within 12 months will be on schedule to be clearly stated with 3 rep teams PER STATE. This is still on schedule as planned.

The games if sold shall be in writing of royalties and rights and negotiated BUT all on legal documents and notarized. No need to be gunshy. I want a game or games....you have the talent... work together and we both win.

If games are unsold which I hope dont happen I incur the costs as I laid them out and the designer is not liable nor in bind to buy back. I have lots of spare parts to start a new hobby making games . :o)

I see this has alot of details more required so when I get a moment this week I will take notes and make a clearer proposal again to answer those needed questions.

Thanks again

Skippy
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My Idea

People say I shouldn't post my ideas lest they be stolen, but the whole purpose of this board is to encourage discourse, right? So here's what I'm thinking.

You have a board that you are forced to go round a la Life. The board should drive you from a fresh water lake into saltwater. Each square has events or options to purchase gear/insurance or whatever, also like Life. Each square also has a number 1 - 12. Each square will produce an appropriate fish (drawn from a deck of cards) if the number for that square is rolled, as in Catan. The gear you aquire will come with modifiers, that you can add or subtract to the roll. Better gear will have better/more flexible modifiers. So If my Rod, Reel and Lure each give me a +1 Modifier, and the square I sit on has a 4, I can catch a fish if 4,5,6, or 7 is rolled. Fish can then be sold for cash or kept (mounted) for Victory Points.

Maybe the saltwater areas will have impossible to reach numbers without the modifiers, and the salt water fish will be worth substantially more. There would also be a hand limit, probablly only one each of a Rod/Reel/Lure/Net or whatever.

Any suggestions?

truekid games
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I'm glad there was some

I'm glad there was some clarification, I've sent you an email LilFisher.

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