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My Game is ready to be published

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Dimitri
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Joined: 03/24/2016
Ottonian Empire Game to be Published

Hi, my game Ottonian Empire is ready to be printed, if you are interestd in pre-ordering it see my website https://bison-games.com. I have playtested it with others and they like it.

Fhizban
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for "just" 90 dollars? cm'on

for "just" 90 dollars?

cm'on get yourself an artist (or two) and release the rest as free print-n-play!

jeeeeesssussss.....

Gabe
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Rule set? How to play video?

Rule set? How to play video? Pictures of what the game will look like?

Right now, you're asking me to shell out almost a hundred bucks based on one image and your claim that the people who play tested liked it.

Also, the idea that a 2+hour game about the Holy Roman Empire in the 10th century would be a family game is a bit ridiculous. Only a very specific group of families would get excited over this type of game.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but your game really doesn't appear to be at a point where you should be pushing for pre-orders.

It might even be a great game, but it has a long way to go.

radioactivemouse
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Some things...

There's a lot of factors that go into making a game. While getting friends to test it may be awesome, there's still more testing that needs to happen...out-of-house play testing, blind play testing, etc. You need to make sure that not only your game holds up with your friends, but you need to make sure that your ruleset communicates well with someone that hasn't seen your game at all.

I do have to applaud you that you not only got a game made, you setup a website and it looks like you've got a lot of things covered. But as the others have said, the price point on the game is quite high; I've been on the fence about getting Pandemic Legacy, a $90 game that's like #1 on every game reviewer's top list. How much more skeptical would I (or anyone else be) be in spending $90 on a game that's home-made? There's not even any nice miniatures or hand-sculpted parts.

I understand that you have to consider manufacturing costs and profit, but there's a reality to the situation that you have to consider. One guy came here and advertised a "perfect" game (in his opinion) and sold it for $1,000...that's laughable. I'm not saying your game is that much, but you have to consider a reasonable cost that consumers would shell out for your game. Remember, no one knows you as a designer in the game industry, so there's that hurdle. You want people to buy your game based on a picture, which is another BIG issue. And I'm not even sure that you've tested your game enough based on your first post.

I have a degree in Game Art and Design, I've worked on AAA games, I've worked for a board game company, and I STILL had glaring bugs and errors when I was working on my game. But I understand what it takes to make a game. I'm not above it all, and neither are you.

Also, have you played the game at any conventions? That would really help you get the feedback that you need so that your game can be the best it can be.

Look for ways to cut the costs, then come back to us later about your game.

Dimitri
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Joined: 03/24/2016
My Game is ready to be published

I admit my subject line was not well chosen, but I am surprised at the extremely unprofessional responses on this thread. Mature individuals ask questions before they presume out of ignorance what they do not know.

Of course I understand as game designers you might be a little jealous or envious that I can afford a website, or that I have the foresight to incorporate, but please understand that the picture you see is only of a prototype and that when it goes to production it will be professionally manufactured by one the leading game manufacturers in the world.

As for the cost, take a look at the real costs for 1000 copies of a game which includes parts like this one does and you will find that $ 90.00 is affordable.

As for the topic of the game, de gustibus non disputandum est.

polyobsessive
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OK then. Please tell us more

OK then.

Please tell us more about your game. What makes it unique? What makes it worth $90? (Other than the fact that this is how much you need to charge.)

I think that part of the reason for you getting fairly blunt replies is that this is a forum for discussing game design (and the specific sub-forum is for discussing the process and details of publication) and you have simply announced a product with little detail.

Are you looking for advice, or are you simply trying to get the word out.

Gabe
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Ok. I'm going to try to say

Ok. I'm going to try to say these things as kindly as I can. It's difficult to discern tone of voice in a forum, but please know that none of the following comes with an ounce of animosity.

There's really only one "unprofessional" thing in the thread so far, and that's the picture of your game. And I'm not saying that to be funny or a smartass.

As potential customers, it's not our jobs to ask you questions about your game. It's your job as the designer/publisher to tell us everything there is to know about your game. What are the rules? How does it play? What will the finished product look like after it's manufactured? These are very normal and common questions that a designer MUST answer for anyone to take a second look at the game.

I assure you no one on this forum is jealous of your website or the fact you started a business. It costs about $10 to build a website in this day and age thanks to godaddy.com and Wordpress. And filing the paperwork with the IRS to start a business isn't exactly a difficult venture either. I commend you for doing these things; they are an excellent first step in getting a game to market. But please don't think for a second that many (dare I say most) of the people on this forum haven't already done one or both of those things.

I also assure you that $90 is not affordable for this game. At least not based on the 1 picture you have of it. In the picture, you have a board, some cards, and a rulebook. A game with those parts would cost maybe $30 on the Game Crafter and that's print-on-demand which carries a higher price.

And to think that people would honestly pay that much money for this game shows you haven't done your research on the industry to know what people are willing to spend.

I see what you did there with the Latin at the end, but when it comes to selling a board game, I assure you people's tastes matter. And knowing the difference between what people like and don't like is the difference between selling 1000 games and having 1000 games collect dust in your garage. This is about more than just a matter of opinion. This is about you potentially losing a bunch of money for not doing your due diligence.

Please understand that this forum is a place for designers to get help in making their games the best they can possibly be. It's not a place to just show up, advertise your game, and get offended when a few people aren't fans and give you constructive criticism.

If you're like most designers, this game is your baby. You've put a ton of effort and time into it. And a few people just told you that you have an ugly baby. And I know that's not fun to hear. I know it's hard to receive criticism on something you've invested so much in.

But to put it quite bluntly, the more you get offended, the worse your game is for it. There are people here that have been designing and selling games for years upon years--people with more knowledge of game design and the industry than you can possibly imagine. You would do well to seek their advice and to allow your game to be torn apart. It's the only way to end up with a great game.

But getting offended and calling people immature and jealous will not get you anywhere.

I have a degree in creative writing, and whenever a person's story was being reviewed and criticized by a class, that person wasn't allowed to defend their story. During the review, they couldn't go into why they chose a certain word or why a character reacted a certain way. They had to just sit there and listen and take notes on why people liked or didn't like the story. Then, after the review, they could discuss why they wrote the story that way and made those creative choices.

That was one of the best things I've ever learned, and the concept translates to every category of creativity.

Create something. Make it the best you possibly can. Then, put it out there for people to judge. Put it out there for people to criticize. Put it out there for people to find the flaws with it.

And listen. Listen to them and take notes.

You don't have to heed their advice. You don't have to totally redo your game because some people don't like it. It's your game after all. And you can't please everybody, and you shouldn't try to.

But don't think for a second that you're the smartest person in the room. Again, the amount of knowledge that occupies this forum baffles me.

So, if you want to make a great game, if that's truly your goal, please stop being offended and start trying to learn how to improve your game. There are plenty of people here who will help you do it.

questccg
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Only honesty

Fhizban wrote:
for "just" 90 dollars?

Check out this GAME for $49.00 USD.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/outerlimitgames/tau-ceti-planetary-...

That game has Miniatures and a sh!tload of cards and parts. It's almost HALF the price of your game.

Seriously NOBODY will pay $90.00 for that game. The $90.00 game spectrum is reserved for games that have Miniatures like this:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1596689756/arena-rex-gladiator-comb...

Or this:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/webeharebrained/golem-arcana/descri...

Golem Arcana even has Tablet PC Integration... I doubt you get any orders. Not because your game is not good - but because your PRICE is unreasonable. Are you selling this game via "The Game Crafter" (TGC)? Because I'm wondering if this is ONE-OFF production. If so maybe I can UNDERSTAND the higher price tag - still would not buy though.

Sorry being honest.

And yeah I own my own company, have my own website for my first game (all done myself) and working on several games. I'm not jealous of people who have more than me. Look at "ElKobold" has a TEAM of 10 people under his direction... He is probably a millionaire. And I'm still not jealous of him either.

We're just being very honest...

Fhizban
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Joined: 01/11/2009
I second what quest

I second what quest said.

Sorry if my first post sounded very rude and juvenile.

ElKobold
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questccg wrote:Look at

questccg wrote:
Look at "ElKobold" has a TEAM of 10 people under his direction... He is probably a millionaire. And I'm still not jealous of him either.

We're just being very honest...

Hahahah. I`m flattered. I`m a mere software engineer and our game is a collaborative effort of three people + the artists who are paid per illustration, as usual for KS products.

There's, of course, no "team of 10" under my "direction". And I`m by no means a millionaire lol.

But I`m happy if the results of our work look professional enough to create this impression :)

As for the topic of the post, as many have already mentioned:

a) Not much info about the game
b) Way too expensive for components shown
c) Judging by the authors reaction to criticism, it's his first game. Add this to the lack of info and you have zero credibility to the quality of the product.

radioactivemouse
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Joined: 07/08/2013
Must...respond.

Dimitri wrote:
I admit my subject line was not well chosen, but I am surprised at the extremely unprofessional responses on this thread. Mature individuals ask questions before they presume out of ignorance what they do not know.

A couple of things:

1) I assure you, my response is as professional as it could be. Not only did I offer criticism from what little information I've been given (which, in essence is your fault), I've offered solutions based on my experiences with designing and releasing a game.

2) Let's cut the bull, we are on the same level here. We are all designers trying to release games because we love games. Believe me, this forum is far more mature in its members than any other forum I've been on. Not only are the members willing to share from their experiences, they genuinely want to help here. If you can't see that from the responses, then it is you that is blind.

Dimitri wrote:
Of course I understand as game designers you might be a little jealous or envious that I can afford a website, or that I have the foresight to incorporate, but please understand that the picture you see is only of a prototype and that when it goes to production it will be professionally manufactured by one the leading game manufacturers in the world.

There's no jealousy around here. It doesn't take much to "afford" a website and I even applauded you for that; I understand what it takes to put up a clean website, but in all fairness, it is pretty basic compared to other websites I've seen. You've got to be able to share with us more than just a picture. Pretty much all consumers won't buy based on a prototype picture; that's pure business. You've got to be willing to share what the game has to offer and what makes this different from all the other games out there and why we should be interested in it.

Seriously, I could go into much detail about how much you really should be jealous that I made a game that a publisher picked up, developed, and published...got exposure at various conventions and traveled around the US...and I didn't have to pay for a website. My game has made me money and I'm working on expansions. I know others here are very proud that they've released their games and that you should be jealous of them as well.

You may be thinking, "I'm not jealous" Well then now you know how we feel. Again, we are all on the same boat, please don't act like you're better than us.

Dimitri wrote:
As for the cost, take a look at the real costs for 1000 copies of a game which includes parts like this one does and you will find that $ 90.00 is affordable.

As for the topic of the game, de gustibus non disputandum est.

If you would just see that we are trying to help, then you might be able to find better solutions here to help with your cost predicament. There are independent developers, Kickstarter campaigners, developers that have successfully gone through a publisher here. All have vast knowledge that i learn from all the time here.

I don't think anyone has an issue with the topic of your game. From a business standpoint, you have to ask yourself if the subject matter is unique enough to hook an audience. It might be, I dunno. You have to find out for yourself. Unfortunately, I can't really tell how much work you've put in based on what little info we got.

So the responsibility is on you, Dimitri. You've shown that you're professional enough to setup a website, design a game, and determine cost based on manufacturing (and I recognize that), finish it by presenting your game to us with the details we need, not some quick flash-in-the-pan show up, give one paragraph about your game, a prototype picture and assume that you'll get buys based on that.

That, in your terms, is truly "unprofessional".

racingspider
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First Post I've Read

Wow. This is the first post I've read after joining - the level of professionalism in nearly every post in this thread.

Sorry, to hijack, but this just proves I've found some good company.

Now, to address the initial post - take a mental step back and listen to what is being said here. From a complete outsider's point of view, they have been monumentally professional and sincere.

Your game's price point seems entirely too high and we need more information on how it plays. It isn't just the subject matter of the game that sells it, it is the game mechanics as well.

Good luck!

Arcuate
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Joined: 02/05/2016
Well said Gabe

Well said Gabe.

I'm not sure I could have said all that so diplomatically.

aramel
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Joined: 01/04/2016
Here to Learn

Hey Dimitri,

I've just recently come out as a game designer myself and am just taking my first steps along the long, mysterious road to who knows where. This is one of the first articles I've read here and this is my first ever response.

If anyone has been unprofessional here, it's been you.

I can see you've put a lot of passion into your game and perhaps you are very protective of it because of that. But babies like to put all sorts of things into their mouths, usually things they're not supposed to.

This is how they develop their tastes and learn what's disgusting or good, and how they develop their immunity.

I'm here to learn and make good babies. :)

I think the responses you got are quite valuable and could save you a lot of money in the future. I guess you need to ask yourself if you are just here to advertise your game and make money or if you truly want to become a craftsman and make the best possible version of your game. Because if it's the first, I don't think you're going to make any money.

Yes, you may have a game ready to be printed, but these "unprofessional" responses are from people you are potentially selling to.

I too have a website, registered business name and everything else, but my baby's still in my belly and still have so much to learn to just be a daddy, let alone a good one at my first attempt.

Here's my two-bits worth:

DISCLAIMER: I'm not too keen on this type of game in the first place, although I do enjoy learning about historical events if done right.

Without seeing the game, hearing about it, seeing play throughs, more photos, etc - I'm bored.

1-6 hours of vying to become the Holy Roman Emperor doesn't appeal to me. You might be aiming for a very niche market.

I'm sure there is a lot of information in the game and can only imagine the time and effort you would have put into it, but one of the reasons I play games is to experience something.

What will I experience with this game? What's going to make me spend anything on it?

Without seeing any other images, all I have is that one photo.

Take and post more photos. Pay someone to take really, really good ones. For $90 (or should I say $116 AUD) I would expect to be wowed on some level.

Ok, maybe this is an earlier version, maybe not - sometimes the presentation can be simple but the experience we have playing the game makes us see beyond that. Do you really think your game does that? Will your game make me lose track of time while I play it, considering I may not know or be interested in the Ottonian Empire?

Are you even wanting to reach out and getting such as myself to buy this game? Or is it meant for die-hard Ottonian Empire fans only?

Sorry if my feedback may not be what you want to hear. As a fellow game designer, my sincere wish is for you and all other game designers to be able to not only give birth to something you are passionate about, but to also be able to share with the world something that will either educate or challenge people whilst bringing joy to their lives.

Good luck with your venture.

harmon89
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I'm new to this forum and

I'm new to this forum and there are many here much more experienced than I am, but here are my suggestions.

1. Get at least 2 well established game reviewers to playtest your game. If they give it 2 thumbs up that gives your game more credibility and increase your chances of a sale.

2. Have you priced your game to determine how much it would cost to make on The Game Crafter. I wouldn't try to sell it for any more that the cost to make the game on that site plus $5. If the game comes out to be more than $50 on there, maybe figure out how to trim the game down so that it is more cost effective. I'm highly doubtful that many will pay much more than $50 for a game by a first time publisher.

3. Your site looks pretty cool, thought like others have said, the game doesn't really come across as a family game. What do you feel is the age range for the game? Is your focus to create educational games?

The Professor
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Getting to Know You

Dmitri,

As "First Created, 0 Backed" sends a very clear signal to those of us who have run Kickstarter projects, so to does a join date of a month ago make me skeptical of anything posted other than, "Hello, I'm new, let me tell you about myself."

You have received a dozen posts of factual, bedrock-foundational information from folks who have worked in this area for a long, long time. It is at your own peril that you dismiss these responses out of hand. Every one of them has proven cogent and delivered with not only professionalism, but a high degree of patience, given your initial foray onto the site and your only response, thus far.

- Get the game playtested...a lot!
- Figure out a reasonable price point
- Post pictures, videos, and rules

None of the aforementioned are negotiable...with them, you stand a fighting chance to enter the arena, where hundreds of games do battle every year for a limited amount of discretionary dollars. Without them, do not even attempt to proceed further.

Joe

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