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P500 system from GMT - good for independents?

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HPS74
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Joined: 01/06/2009

Browsing the net today for wargames after reading an article on the game "Here I stand", it led me to GMT's website.

I must admit I didn't know about there P500 system. It's kind of like a pre-order but no money is charged until enough orders (500 of them) have been received that the game will go to print.

I've done pre-orders on our dice games before but they were going to print regardless.

This makes me wonder about a Kickstarter campaign and the work that needs to go into one and the all important network that kick starts it off.

Could I be cheeky enough to have PS100 (that's Pocket Sports 100)for a $9.95 pre order on Gridiron, Cycling, Surfing and use a similar approach? The pros would be have 100 paying customers ready to go but the cons could be an eternal wait if it never gets there?

Makes me wonder.....

Orangebeard
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HPS74 wrote:It's kind of like

HPS74 wrote:
It's kind of like a pre-order but no money is charged until enough orders (500 of them) have been received that the game will go to print.

I think the biggest difference here is that in a pre-order system I am expecting the product to publish and be delivered; in a crowd-funding scenario, I accept that the risk is much greater that the product may not publish and I will be out the cash.

In the end, both of these systems basically mitigate risk for the publisher only.

HPS74 wrote:
This makes me wonder about a Kickstarter campaign and the work that needs to go into one and the all important network that kick starts it off.

Either way, a social networking campaign will be vital to generating the interest needed to publish with a reasonable level of confidence that you will be successful.

HPS74 wrote:
Could I be cheeky enough to have PS100 (that's Pocket Sports 100)for a $9.95 pre order on Gridiron, Cycling, Surfing and use a similar approach? The pros would be have 100 paying customers ready to go but the cons could be an eternal wait if it never gets there?

Again, in a pre-order system, I expect that the product will be published. Admittedly, this is my personal view of the difference between pre-orders and crowdfunding.

I don't think there is anything cheeky about considering different publishing strategies, but can you still be profitable with a PS100 at $9.95? Is your company in a financial position to publish on a fixed date regardless of the number of pre-orders? Would it be possible to set pricing tiers? (e.g. We are publishing on July 1, 2015 - if we have 100 orders, the price will be 9.95, if we have 500 orders it will be 8.95 and so on...)

Good luck with your game - I'm looking forward to hearing out it turns out!

Soulfinger
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My impression is that

My impression is that pre-order sales work out better if you have an established customer base with some brand loyalty. If a KS fails to fund then the company running it is still considered viable. That one idea just didn't float, but preexisting products are still shipping, etc. If pre-orders don't pan out promptly then it gives an impression that the company itself is bogged down. "I placed a pre-order for a special snowflake plastic soldier, now two months have passed, so Company X must be in serious trouble." The temptation is then to produce 500 units when you only have a commitment for 66 to satisfy antsy customers, and now the company actually is in serious trouble. I appreciate KS because it saved a lot of publishers from the old ways of doing business, which more often than not meant racking up massive debt to gamble on the success of each product.

questccg
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Soulfinger brings up a valid point

As Soulfinger mentions Kickstarters help even publishers to *expand* their base of gamers... The good thing about a Kickstarter is that it is a DIRECT sale to a consumer. Having a list of 1,000 customers who buy your products is a good fan base. Granted 1,000 customers is less than 1% of the potential market - BUT it still never the less ensures that a game that will be put out on a Kickstarter will at least have an AUDIENCE of potential buyers who will decide if they actually LIKE the Publisher's latest game.

That's why I am looking for a Publisher as opposed to doing it myself. I don't want to run a business that make all kinds of games. I simply want to have a hobby that allows me to publisher maybe one, two or five games down the line... I enjoy designing because of the challenge of bringing together distinct pieces of the puzzle into a single game.

I don't think that a PRE-ORDER system is better than a Kickstarter. I actually think it is WORST. Why? Well it means that people who are very excited about the game order FIRST... Then they need to WAIT and WAIT until you have like 500 orders. The excitement of wanting the game sort of dies down a little... IMHO I think a Kickstarter is better because everyone knows the rules of the game: you have X days to get Y funds. If you succeed you will deliver the product by Z date.

It really is a great formula...

questccg
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To cite an example

Take Dwarven Forge:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/dwarvenforge/dwarven-forges-city-bu...

They put out their third game and look at the size of the audience: almost 2,000 backers. But look at the FUNDING: $1M+...

If you keep coming up with novel ideas to complement your games, well you could profit by understanding that if you sell product A and you design product B... You have people you can notify and create a BUZZ around your product...

larienna
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Quote:My impression is that

Quote:
My impression is that pre-order sales work out better if you have an established customer base with some brand loyalty.

It think it is somewhat true that Kickstarter and P500 does not attract the same audiance. You might need something more innovative or that looks cool with Kickstarter.

p500 is somewhat the predecessor of kickstarter. Kickstarter expanded and complexified the idea and possibilities.

Soulfinger
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larienna wrote:p500 is

larienna wrote:
p500 is somewhat the predecessor of kickstarter. Kickstarter expanded and complexified the idea and possibilities.

KS was intended more as an alternative to venture capitalism, but there is a public perception of it as a pre-order system based on the investor receiving an end product, rather than equity in the actual company.

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