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Poll: Who prefers what...

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questccg
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Hi all,

I was wanting to conduct a brief poll in regards to *Game Design*.

1: Do you want/like to participate in the process of producing artwork for your game?
Yes or No, explain why.

2: Do you believe artwork is required or recommended before approaching publishers?
Yes or No, explain why.

3: As a designer, do you enjoy playing other tabletop (board or cards) games?
Yes or No

4: Do you design as a hobby, a sideline (extra money) or as a career (professionally)?
Hobby, Sideline or Career

5: How many *game designs* do you have (works-in-progress or completed)?
# of designs

questccg
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Q1: Yes, I find that

Q1: Yes, I find that overseeing the production of artwork gets your product to look as you envision it.

Q2: Yes, I find it hard to believe that publishers will publish a game without artwork.

Q3: Yes

Q4: Hobby

Q5: 5: 1 published, 2 prototypes, 2 in design.

Robinson
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poll reply

1: Do you want/like to participate in the process of producing artwork for your game?

A1) Only tangentially, I prefer to set some broad guidelines and provide feedback, but not be too involved. I know my own artistic limitations and from what I've read most publishers will change things anyway.

2: Do you believe artwork is required or recommended before approaching publishers?

A2) Yes, in order to help sell the vision of the game. While they might change it, initial artwork will help them see the game as something that can sit out on a gamer's table and be appealing.

3: As a designer, do you enjoy playing other tabletop (board or cards) games?

A3) Yes, quite a bit.

4: Do you design as a hobby, a sideline (extra money) or as a career (professionally)?

A4) Hobby

5: How many *game designs* do you have (works-in-progress or completed)?

A5) 2 - 1 in advanced playtesting, 1 in the fleshing out stage.

Mads321
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1: Do you want/like to

1: Do you want/like to participate in the process of producing artwork for your game?
Yes or No, explain why.

- Yes. Like I care about whats under the hood of my car, I also care about it's apperance. You could easily argue, that design is making an elegant connection between inside and outside. We call ourselves game designers, not game engineers for a reason, right? So if it was all about mechanics, we'd only be looking under the hood. But we don't, so yes, not only would I like to participate in the production of the artwork, I would idealy think of the artist as the craftsman translating and producing into real life what I cannot. With my imagination as his/her guideance. If not, we could end up with a sports car engine in a traktor or vice versa.

2: Do you believe artwork is required or recommended before approaching publishers?
Yes or No, explain why.

- Yes and no. You take it as far as you are capable of. I really do not think it's a matter of selling your game on apperances, nor the mechanics solely. Reach for the elegance - the fluent transition between mechanics and artwork. If you are too heavy on either side, the less appeal it will have. We all have imaginations, so you can leave blanks here and there, if only the idea and meaning of every bit is present, the elegance will be too. It doesn't mean that doodles and simple childrens games goes to together, or heavy games with 1000 bits with state of the art handdrawn artwork for that matter. It means that what ever you want to present, present it like you feel is right. And if it helps, just think of it like a sketch, or what is it called - oh yeah; A prototype ;-)

3: As a designer, do you enjoy playing other tabletop (board or cards) games?
Yes or No

- Yes. Even games I don't enjoy in the common sense, I still want to play (more than once). I learn something from each game I play. Maybe I don't learn something I can interpret and use later on, but at least I will have learned what I think is "bad" design (not to my taste). This is especially the case if what I don't like have great appeal to other people. Then I MUST learn what they like about it and why (and I can feel you have the same curiosity with this poll).

4: Do you design as a hobby, a sideline (extra money) or as a career (professionally)?
Hobby, Sideline or Career

- Hobby, but wouldn't mind taking it further.

5: How many *game designs* do you have (works-in-progress or completed)?
# of designs

- Fully finished designs sent to a publisher: 1
- Games in progress: at least 4 (and about 50 ideas outlined in text)

Awaclus
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1: Kind of. I don't want to

1: Kind of. I don't want to be the one doing any drawing, but I want to interact with the artist as much as possible, to make sure they really understand what I mean with my game design and that I understand what they mean with their art.

2: No. Having artwork is a sign to the publisher that you're very serious about your game, but on the other hand they might think that you're unwilling to change the art (if it's not self-made "two minutes in MS Paint" kind of art). Either way, it's probably possible to convince the publisher to publish your game anyway if the game design itself is worth publishing.

3: Yes, and I think that playing other games is essential for a designer. That way you can learn from others' mistakes, possibly get an inspiration for a mechanic every now and then, and above all, know for sure that you're not spending resources trying to get published something that's already been done.

4: Currently, as a hobby. I'm in high school and because I still live with my parents, I don't even need much money. Of course, it would be nice if I could earn all the money I need from game design in the future, but I wouldn't put all my eggs in that basket.

5: I have one major work-in-progress and tons of ideas that I could work on, in case I ever feel like designing something else for a while. However, the biggest project still is the most appealing to me, so I haven't developed the other ideas any further (they all are card games, and I haven't even designed the cards, just written down some rules).

Tob
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Poll

1. Not really. I am not an artist so I don't have the patience required. I tend to be more interested in the game itself rather than what it looks like. I should mention that I mostly do wargames that don't require a lot of art. It's all standard symbols and a map. I do put in a little time in on prototype maps just because I hate blank white hex paper.

2. Only if it's integral to game play, like for a map, or to illustrate a critical point - a picture is worth 1000 words. Publishers have artists on call or on staff to take care of the fluff so there's no need to fully flesh-out the eye candy.

3. I play very few board and card games, but it does occasionally happen. Most of my gaming time is wrapped up in wargames.

4. Back in the day it was a sideline, but I never made more money than my day job. Now in retirement it's more of a hobby.

5. Currently I have 4 projects in development, only one of which could be considered a board game (see Sailing Mechanic elsewhere). I did start a card game about a month ago, but it fell apart.

questccg
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Current results - More opinions needed

Q1: 2 Yes, 1 No and 2 Undecided.

Q2: 2 Yes, 1 No and 2 Undecided.

Q3: 4 Yes, 1 No.

Q4: 5 Hobby.

Q5: Avg. 3.4 games.

Please continue to post your responses to our poll. Thank you.

lewpuls
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1: Do you want/like to

1: Do you want/like to participate in the process of producing artwork for your game?
Yes, though real publishers believe they know better, generally. If given the opportunity I will participate; I am mainly trying to be sure something isn't "screwed up", however. (So I recommended for FFG Britannia, "no green pieces on a green background." We got yellow pieces on a yellow background...)

2: Do you believe artwork is required or recommended before approaching publishers?
A decent-looking prototype helps persuade people to playtest it. Publishers want to see that you've put a little effort in, hence don't any longer want maps hand-drawn on paper grocery bags. But publishers produce their own art, they don't want to use what you've produced, and as another poster said, publishers tend not to take seriously anyone who has spent money on game artwork for their prototype.

3: As a designer, do you enjoy playing other tabletop (board or cards) games?
When I was 25 - 35 years ago - I stopped playing games *against* other people (before that I was cut-throat) as I didn't like what it was doing to me. D&D is my ideal to play, because there's intelligent opposition (the ref) but we're not playing against each other, so the game is cooperative (with the other adventurers). Moreover, the more time I spend playing someone else's games, the less time I have to devote to my own (which must be played solo several times, if nothing else). I don't even play my own published games *as they were published*. OTOH I've recently played Britannia seventeen times solo, but that was in aid of making and testing rules for the new edition.

4: Do you design as a hobby, a sideline (extra money) or as a career (professionally)?
Sideline until recently

5: How many *game designs* do you have (works-in-progress or completed)?
If we go back all the way, upwards of 150. I try to have at least a dozen played by other people each year, plus playing several solo, plus working on others without playing, each year.

Horatio252
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1. I would enjoy having final

1. I would enjoy having final approval for the artwork in my games. I think carefully about the layout of my cards and boards so that play is easy and intuitive. That said, I don't expect to get final approval or to get much participation in producing the artwork once a publisher picks it up.

2. Artwork can be nice for conveying theme and atmosphere, but since publishers do their own art in-house, I don't put too much effort or money into it. I always have art, but it is always free stuff I have found on the internet.

3. I do enjoy playing other tabletop games. When I have a game idea I often seek out similar games to play to help me in my design.

4. hobby. Money is a bad reason to get into game design, and it take tremendous skill and luck to get to the career level.

5. If you count generously, 8. I have no published games. I have two games in final playtesting (pitched but rejected), two in mid playtesting, another two in early playtesting, and two games that are pre-prototype. Of course, I am only actively working on three of them, one is on the back burner, two are shelved at the moment, and the pre-prototypes are just waiting for me to get some spare time for them.

Stormyknight1976
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Joined: 04/08/2012
Poll

1:Yes. 2: Yes, but till i went for indie. 3: Yes. 4: Hobby. 5: 9 games so far. 6 games complete, 2 games in production, 1 game in thought process.

larienna
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Quote:1: Do you want/like to

Quote:
1: Do you want/like to participate in the process of producing artwork for your game?
Yes or No, explain why.

I like the idea of making art for a game if I can get good results in a short amount of time. I don't have much artistic skills, but I like the "activity" of painting art. This is why I am trying to see if I could get acceptable results by doing speed painting with a tablet PC. I would like to make reasonable art, for a board game, in 15-30 minutes.

Quote:
2: Do you believe artwork is required or recommended before approaching publishers?
Yes or No, explain why.

NO, in fact, there is a good chance that they throw away everything you have do to make their own art. So making art is ONLY for self publishing. For submission, black and white prototype should wok as fine as artworked prototype.

Quote:
3: As a designer, do you enjoy playing other tabletop (board or cards) games?
Yes or No

OF course, you cannot design games if you do not play games. One requires the other. The same could be applied to other field of creation: A writer need to constantly read book, a musician needs to constantly listen to music, etc.

Quote:
4: Do you design as a hobby, a sideline (extra money) or as a career (professionally)?
Hobby, Sideline or Career

I think it could be in between Hobby and Side line. I would love to make some "extra money" out of my designs. But it's currently not the case right now and it might never be. If somebody would give me the offer to work in the gaming business (board games or video games), I could be willing to give it a try, but that is not my primary objective.

Quote:
5: How many *game designs* do you have (works-in-progress or completed)?
# of designs

Hundreds, ideas keep coming every day. I logged most of them on my website:

http://bgd.lariennalibrary.com/index.php?n=Main.Games

And if I count the list, it should be around 45. Some games are closer to be a working prototype, while other are simply loose ideas.

Orangebeard
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Poll Response

1: Do you want/like to participate in the process of producing artwork for your game?
Yes, I would like to throw in my 2 cents, but I will understand if I get my 2 cents back :) I usually have a good idea of what I would do if I were the publisher, and I would appreciate the chance to see the artwork in development, but I also respect the fact that the publisher needs to make the final decision.

2: Do you believe artwork is required or recommended before approaching publishers?
No. As much as I would like a "finished" fully artwoked prototype, this is beyond my artistic abilities and I have yet to speak with a publisher who wants me to include art.

3: As a designer, do you enjoy playing other tabletop (board or cards) games?
Yes - absolutely.

4: Do you design as a hobby, a sideline (extra money) or as a career (professionally)?
Hobby, Sideline or Career
Hobby

5: How many *game designs* do you have (works-in-progress or completed)?
# of designs
10 - 1 "published" (personal game for friends) - 1 solid prototype - 7 concept - 1 in active design

Stormyknight1976
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Poll edit:

I had forgotten to mentioned and did not mean to mislead any one about my 6 games that are complete. My games are complete, but not published by any board or card game company. I knew something was off in my poll questionaire. Sorry about that.

questccg
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Current results - More opinions needed

Q1: 6 Yes, 2 No and 2 Undecided.

Q2: 4 Yes, 4 No and 2 Undecided.

Q3: 8 Yes, 2 No.

Q4: 9 Hobby, 1 Sideline.

Q5: Avg. 7.6 games (plus a couple of high counts: 150 and 45).

Please continue to post your responses to our poll. Thank you.

stevebarkeruk
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Survey

1) Yes, in terms of the limited art I use for prototypes (although that often consists of WordArt shapes and basic PhotoShop work) but I lack the artistic skill to do much more than that.

2) It's not required and probably not recommended beyond the basics necessary to convey ideas. Certainly I don't think spending money on art is advisable if you're submitting to a publisher; they probably have either in-house artists or their own IP they want to re-theme a game to match, in which case the art you paid for might be totally wasted.

3) Yes of course. It would be a strange thing to pursue if I didn't. That being said, I often feel inspired by the games I try and don't like because I want to do the idea "right".

4) Hobby all the way. Being published would be nice but I think if your aim is to be published then you'll be tempted to design something you don't feel passionate about because you think it's what will sell and if you don't feel passionate about creative pursuits I don't see the point. Plus I think a project which shows real passion from its creator is more likely to attract an audience in general.

5) I'm always "actively" working on a few (three at the moment) but also always have about a dozen I'm thinking about more casually, waiting for inspiration to strike. So I don't know if you count that as three works in progress or fifteen? I have dozens more ideas in my "vault" that I'm not interested in for the time being as well.

GreenO
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1: Do you want/like to

1: Do you want/like to participate in the process of producing artwork for your game?
Yes or No, explain why.
No. I am not a great artist, my skills lie elsewhere. I found out a long time ago that a well painted army of miniatures often loses to a badly painted one that is well constructed.

2: Do you believe artwork is required or recommended before approaching publishers?
Yes or No, explain why.
In as much as a picture can tell a thousand words, yes. If it gets a concept across, it has to worthwhile. Not every time perhaps- that depends on the concept.

3: As a designer, do you enjoy playing other tabletop (board or cards) games?
Yes or No
Yes. Very much so. How a game makes a player feel is important to me. I think there can be a dangerous disconnect in designers at the drier more mechanical end of the spectrum that see games as interactive spreadsheets that are designed for the games sake rather than for the enjoyment of the players. That can be fine if your audience is prepared to invest their recreational downtime in re-enacting a simulated war story or manipulative a financial market that makes them feel that their time is well spent. People like this who sagely nod afterwards that the game is a indeed a very good spreadsheet are one end of a scale.

Games that are enjoyable to a wide audience get played more than those that enjoyable to a niche one. To design games like this well requires a sense of how a game makes the players feel when they play it and after it ends. If I have been made to lose several turns in a row by another player's actions or felt that I just didn't care who won by the mid-game because the game didn't engage me for whatever reason then, fabulous spreadsheet or not, I'm not likely to play it again. My time is limited. I want to have a fun time when I'm playing games. I've never won a game of Kremlin in my life, but I love playing it. It's long and dated and fiddly but you get a feeling from playing it that is wonderful. Likewise I've won games of Chicago Express and German Railways whilst checking my email. Great design, not engaging; great spreadsheet, plays like recreational accountancy.

Games have outcomes beyond their binary win/loss end point.

4: Do you design as a hobby, a sideline (extra money) or as a career (professionally)?
Hobby, Sideline or Career
Hobby.

5: How many *game designs* do you have (works-in-progress or completed)?
# of designs
A fair few. Two published competition wins and three or four in with publishers, upwards of a dozen in various stages from ideas to beta prototypes.

Tj
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Joined: 04/14/2011
survey

1: Do you want/like to participate in the process of producing artwork for your game?
Yes or No, explain why.

I like to give input but ultimately leave it up to the professional

2: Do you believe artwork is required or recommended before approaching publishers?
Yes or No, explain why.

Required...not necessarily. Benificial...yes. gives a clearer vision

3: As a designer, do you enjoy playing other tabletop (board or cards) games?
Yes or No

Yes. always enjoy playing board/card games. Helps to spur new ideas

4: Do you design as a hobby, a sideline (extra money) or as a career (professionally)?
Hobby, Sideline or Career

Hobby

5: How many *game designs* do you have (works-in-progress or completed)?
# of designs

I have 4 prototypes of board games, ideas for a couple others. designed on paper a couple video game ideas in the 1980's. One of which was stolen by big buisness. Will be in Essen next week to display 3 prototypes.

Markus Hagenauer
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Q1: No, I want to be

Q1: No, I want to be informed, but I don´t think more "involvment" is necessary.

Q2: No, why should the work be done twice? And why should I do something others can do much better?
Pictogramss for the better understanding "yes", but artwork "no".

Q3: Yes

Q4: Hobby, on the way to Sidlein

Q5: 3 licenced, 8 (almost) completed, about 10 in progress, and many more rough ideas in mind

BMinNY
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Joined: 03/07/2012
Answers

1: Do you want/like to participate in the process of producing artwork for your game?

A: I would like to, however I am not artistic, so it is unrealistic to think that I can actively participate in producing the artwork.

2: Do you believe artwork is required or recommended before approaching publishers?

A: I don't believe I am qualified to answer that question, as I am so new to this process.

3: As a designer, do you enjoy playing other tabletop (board or cards) games?

A: YES!

4: Do you design as a hobby, a sideline (extra money) or as a career (professionally)?

A: Right now it is a hobby. Would I like it to provide a little extra money, or even blossom into a career - ABSOLUTELY!

5: How many *game designs* do you have (works-in-progress or completed)?

A: 4 Works in progress.

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