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Trivia Obscura™ live on KS, and I am so anxious!!

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marilena nadanull
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Greetings to all!
Finally, and I mean finally, after so much effort, I have a lunch date for my game!
Trivia Obscura™ +Do You Know Darkness?+ will launch on the 3rd of March 2020!
I want everything to be perfect and in place before we go live. I know that this is impossible, but I am trying my best. Although extremely confident about the game itself, there are times that I feel my mind going numb about all these tiny details that need to be taken care off before launching KS! So, I am asking for your help, if you can provide feedback about the campaign. ANY feedback, tip, advise would be of great help!
I don’t want to spam, so I am just sending you our video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yq5xZByyCcE&fbclid=IwAR0bnXH0vAAQsxWMwIX...

Our landing page is https://mailchi.mp/daf20d7bd283/triviaobscura. By subscribing, you will get a mini preview of our campaign.

If you are interested, you can learn more in our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/TriviaObscura

I am grateful for your time and ANY feedback will help me avoid an upcoming heart attack!!

Jay103
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Have you been working on your

Have you been working on your KS page? You can post it here for more feedback when you're ready.

What's your pricing? Your target?

Nice video.. I like it.

I assume you're doing some very tightly targeted marketing somewhere.. not sure Facebook is where your goth/horror audience hangs out, but they're the best I know of at letting someone easily target a segment.

Then again, I see that you have 500+ followers on Facebook already. How on earth did you manage that? Looks like you've already been marketing to a few targeted groups/clubs?

ceethreepio
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I'll give my feedback

Okay, I'll give you my honest "stream of consciousness" feedback after following your links.

I went to the website first since I wanted to learn what your game was about. But there's nothing there except a mailing list sign up, and I don't want to sign up yet because I don't know what the game is about. There are 4 tiny thumbnail images at the bottom but none pop up so I can see more. Nothing else to explain what it is. Closed the browser tab.

Next, I tried the video. First frame is flash frame with some details on it, same pictures, but now it's a board game on "dark knowledge and lifestyle". Goths? maybe? Looks like it ships to the western world.

Started watching the video. Wobbling text annoyed me - why is it wobbling behind the smoke? It's hard to read. Ah, now a board appears. Okay, board and cards are dark, as expected. Looks slightly CG but nothing wrong with that. Dice roll .. okay, good, looking forward to a voice over explaining the game.

Loud music! Made me jump! Er, pictures, ... flashing, fast, whaddfuk? Wow, this isn't safe for work! Stupid music too loud! Why am I watching stock photography? Oh gods some of those are really horrible pictures. This level of repetitive flashing could trigger a fit in those with epilepsy. It should come with a warning.

20 seconds later - I'm still watching stock photography? Why? Is there no game? Is this a flashy thing without substance?

The video is over. I'm slightly relieved. I turned the volume down after the loud music started so I need to turn it back up. All style, no substance, creepy. Don't really know what kind of game it is. Don't know what the point of the point of the stock photography was. Probably the types of trivia. Doesn't look fun. Kinda of horrible.

Not for me, I think. closed Video tab.

Facebook page - cool, this looks more normal. I think it's a game like trivial pursuit? Sounds nice. Can't see that weird video on the page, so hopefully it hasn't put anyone off. Closed tab.

Done.

Sorry, I can be rather brutal with stream of consciousness. It's just literally what I thought as I wandered through your links.

Nick

PS I also fundamentally disagree that the YingYang symbol classifies as 'Occult'.

Jay103
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I think I could argue that

I think I could argue that Taoism has occult elements (divination via the I Ching comes to mind). Probably could argue that about parts of most religions..

questccg
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Personally it's not my thing ... but

You could have been more interesting with an "Adventure"-type Trivia Game...

What I means is a D&D "Trivia" Game and you could have a Tag Line like:

"Prepare yourself for a journey!"

And you could pump-out "Adventure" Packs with "Questions" (!?) about different aspects of the "Fantasy" genre.

This is just an opinion TBH. But I get the attraction, sort of like the Ouija Board... Or experimenting with books on "Spell Casting"...

But you could have the "Occult" in the D&D "Trivia" Game too... I mean D&D is filled with classes of characters that can cast spells and heal players. You would get sort of something similar but less focused on "the darker side of things"... So to speak.

Best of luck(!?) with your project.

marilena nadanull
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Hello Jay, thank you for your

Hello Jay, thank you for your reply.
Our KS page is ready, a few videos need to be added, so I do not publish it yet.
Yes, the game has been in development for 4 years, so we have slowly and steadily built an audience over time. As you can see, it is a strongly – themed – oriented towards a specific target group game, mostly on a Gothic audience. Adds and promo actions are mainly targeted to gothic audience.
The KS price is 40$, and is as low as it can get! We do offer some higher pledge levels though.
We use our tumblr page to blog post various themes from Trivia Obscura, you can have a look here:
https://doyouknowdarkness.tumblr.com/
I guess that most of our followers came from live appearances, such as our presentation at AthensCON.
(you can have a look here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XwBgwhdS-Y) . Having people to actually play your game, was the best way to advertise I learned. We also plan to make a few other live appearances before KS. I’m telling you, getting out there to the public, is the best way to gain followers!!!

marilena nadanull
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Hello questccg, thank you for

Hello questccg, thank you for your reply!
Sounds great!
But, it is a different project! 
Trivia Obscura is basically a trivia game, with strategy elements. Impossible (and not wise) to add more game play elements on a game when the gameplay is solid enough. But, your idea sounds really nice! 

marilena nadanull
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Hello ceethreepio, thank you

Hello ceethreepio, thank you for your feedback!
Trivia Obscura is strongly targeted towards a goth audience. By law, the more targeted a project is, the less you are interested in the “generall” opinion. People should be excluded when targeting a project, in order to be more focused on you target group – it is hard, but that is the way things go.
Since the game is “culturally” targeted, decisions have to be made. That practically means, leaving all game elements outside from promotions – Goths are not interested in extended walkthroughs, rulebooks, how –to-plays and stuff like that. Gamers are. Goths, are not. Goths are interested in the…well… gothness? of things. This practically means, creating atmosphere and emotion, and throwing all game elements away, cause Goths get bored with that kind of stuff!
Knowing the limits of your target group is precious!
I really thank you for your feedback, being hard is the only way to help people improve things and become better. 

Jay103
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I’m going to be watching with

I’m going to be watching with interest.. my games are also targeted, and I know what you mean about having to ignore things that “standard” games would maybe require. Good luck!

If you want to talk pricing, I’m always interested.. is that $40 with us shipping? It is indeed very hard to bring in an Indy game for less than that. Maybe impossible unless you know ahead of time you’ll sell at least 10k copies.

Jay103
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By the way, your facebook

By the way, your facebook page links to a much more interesting website than your "landing page"..

marilena nadanull
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Thank you Jay for your

Thank you Jay for your feedback and your nice words.
40$ is without shipping, and it is literally as low as it can get.
Manufacturing cost is 12$ per game, and with all stretch goals unlocked, it may go to even 25$. I haven’t add expenses and fees on that.
I am giving a retailers pledge at 29$, so you understand that it is practically at cost price!
We decided to go this way for several reasons.
1) The game is not targeted towards a heavy gaming audience. That means that our target group may even not have backed a single game on KS ever. Gamers will gladly spend $$$ on a KS projects, but that doesn’t mean that our target group is willing to do so, too.
2) We decided not to expect to make profit from KS. All we want is the push to get the game printed. We set the funding target at 15,000$, that is exactly what we need to press the “print” button. With 40$ per game, that means about 400 backers on KS to make it happen. So, if funded, profit will be out of the rest 600 game pieces that will be awaiting to be sold via other venues. Those games will be sold at a much higher price.
3) Trivia Obscura is a labor of love. Spent 4 years in developing it, we want to bring it to life, and that is what matters for us most of all. Solid projects made with love, usually do not fail. At least, that is what I want to believe! ;)

Jay103
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That's landed cost, I hope.

That's landed cost, I hope. Otherwise I think you're definitely underpricing it.

$25 means your stretch goals are bad. A stretch goal should add $0.10, not $10.. I mean, if stretch goals make it $25, then manufacturing costs are now $25,000. So you'd better not be hitting those expensive stretch goals without well above $25k in pledges -- because $25 COGS means you're a lot less profitable with the extra copies, or you have to bump your retail price up by $20-30.

Also if stretch goals make the game heavier.. shipping costs increase. Maybe it's $500-1000 extra for that.

Also, remember that if you're charging shipping through KS (rather than with BackerKit or similar), then the shipping adds to your total. So if it's $40 + $10, then you will hit your funding goal at 300 copies, not 400.

(and don't forget that you'll lose 10% off the top, so you'll get something under $14k if you have $15k of pledges)

questccg
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Think KS 2.0

marilena nadanull wrote:
...We decided not to expect to make profit from KS. All we want is the push to get the game printed. We set the funding target at 15,000$, that is exactly what we need to press the “print” button. With 40$ per game, that means about 400 backers on KS to make it happen...

Please be aware of standard pricing rules: 5x Landed Cost = MSRP.

If it cost you $8.00 USD to MAKE, you should price the game at $40.00 USD.

$25 USD to make is much TOO HIGH (with all the stretch goals). Please share with us your KS campaign page ... So we can have a look to see blatant errors. You seem to be missing the mark in some cases.

If you want to OFFER a generous discount well then you can have an Early-Bird special for the first 100 Backers for $35.00 USD. They save $5.00 USD off their copies.

But as @Jay103 suggested, you will lose 10% to KS fees. So it's $36.00 USD and $31.50 USD with the discount. If SHIPPING is above and beyond, that seems reasonable, it's $40.00 USD + shipping. When were you planning to collect the shipping fee? Is it part of the REWARD (so $55.00 USD or $50.00 USD) or are you collecting it in the Pledge Manager? In that case it's as before ($40.00 USD or $35.00 USD + shipping).

I am building a MOVEMENT called "KS 2.0". And what it means is that Designers who are launching KS initiatives should follow some strict guidelines (for the benefit of the KS Community):

1> 5x Multiplier from Landed Cost = MSRP.

2> You may offer an Early-Bird reward and discount by $5.00 or so.

3> Your company needs to make a profit.

4> You as the Game's Designer need to make a profit too.

We are seeing far too many KS campaigns that Break-Even or go into the RED. I personally am tired of too many people ruining the KS experience by trying to make TOO TIGHT margins. The difference between #3 and #4 is substantial. If you as the Designer make $0.00 it's a total and complete WASTE OF TIME. Why? How many times will you be able to MAKE and INVEST time and get $0.00??? It's bad business and it's bad KS management.

Remember #3 and #4 are DIFFERENT and SEPARATE clauses. Firstly you should never KS as an individual and secondly if you do KS, the monies invested in making prototypes, sending copies to reviewers, paying for videos, paying for Graphic Designers to do layouts, etc. All that requires MONEY UP-FRONT. Your COMPANY is LOANING the money for the project... Therefore as an INVESTOR in your "Game" ... The company should see a REASONABLE return on money. So plan for 5% to 10% company ROI.

Next YOU as the Game Designer should EARN MONEY TOO. All those hours working on prototypes, playtesting (with or without friends), making this game happen, etc. All that is TIME and you should VALUE YOUR TIME. I think at the MINIMUM you should expect to make 10%.

If you aren't making this... Well you may make one (1) game... But you'll probably will not be making another. Why? Because you will come to the conclusion:

Why am I designing games if I can't make any profit in doing so???

And once you realize this, you will move on and disappear from the TableTop Game Design scene... So be AWARE of these rules and think about them. I am offering this advice free of charge... And it may seem difficult to work with these guidelines.

Believe me... You can KS your way or mine. Mine will make you excited to work on FUTURE games. Because you actually STAND TO MAKE "something"! And it's not a waste of time. Even if the profits are LEAN... It says that as a BUSINESS you are making something!

Cheers...

ceethreepio
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marilena nadanull wrote:Hello

marilena nadanull wrote:
Hello ceethreepio, thank you for your feedback!
Trivia Obscura is strongly targeted towards a goth audience. By law, the more targeted a project is, the less you are interested in the “generall” opinion.

I'm not sure there are any "laws" here, but I get what you mean.

marilena nadanull wrote:
Since the game is “culturally” targeted, decisions have to be made. That practically means, leaving all game elements outside from promotions – Goths are not interested in extended walkthroughs, rulebooks, how –to-plays and stuff like that. Gamers are. Goths, are not.

I'm not sure I agree. I think you are making quite a few serious assumptions about how your target market thinks. I'd agree non-gamers aren't going to watch an extended walkthrough, how-to, read the rule book, etc, but after watching the video they might actually want to understand that, at the end, it's a board game where they can be social together and have fun together. I know it's briefly featured in the video, but that features in about 1% of the total video versus 98% of stock footage.

marilena nadanull wrote:
Goths are interested in the…well… gothness? of things. This practically means, creating atmosphere and emotion, and throwing all game elements away, cause Goths get bored with that kind of stuff!

Again, I'd replace "goths" with "non-gamers" since that's a bunch of assumptions about your target market which is a very broad school. I get trying to convince "goths" that this is a game that understands their lifestyle/preferences, but I'm not sure the video needs 20 seconds of stock footage to try and ram that home. Why not end on a decent shot of the board game?

ceethreepio
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questccg wrote:Please be

questccg wrote:
Please be aware of standard pricing rules: 5x Landed Cost = MSRP.

These aren't rules, these are conventions, which if followed might lead to profit :)

questccg wrote:
I am building a MOVEMENT called "KS 2.0". And what it means is that Designers who are launching KS initiatives should follow some strict guidelines (for the benefit of the KS Community):

That won't work. For the same reason high heels exist. If YOU avoid taking a competitive advantage, you can be sure your competitors won't.

questccg wrote:
I personally am tired of too many people ruining the KS experience by trying to make TOO TIGHT margins. The difference between #3 and #4 is substantial. If you as the Designer make $0.00 it's a total and complete WASTE OF TIME. Why? How many times will you be able to MAKE and INVEST time and get $0.00??? It's bad business and it's bad KS management.

At this point, I strongly disagree. He's said above, he doesn't want to make a profit. This is a labour of love.

Firstly, he isn't a company, he's therefore not a professional, and therefore doesn't need to make a profit.

Secondly, turning hobby-dreams into reality through external funding is practically the mission statement of Kickstarter, so he's well within his rights to do it this way. He may not make any money, and in fact, it may cost him a bunch, but if that's his goal, then he's perfectly entitled to do it.

questccg wrote:
I am offering this advice free of charge...

Dude, it's a public BBS forum - everyone offers their opinion free of charge. :)

He just wants to make a love letter to the Goth community, and this is his way of doing it.

questccg
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I can tell you've never KS-ed before!

ceethreepio wrote:
questccg wrote:
Please be aware of standard pricing rules: 5x Landed Cost = MSRP.

These aren't rules, these are conventions, which if followed might lead to profit :)

You haven't the slightest idea about how to sell to stores. There are real issues with precedent that occur when you cannot negotiate the proper price point. These will impact your ability to get your game into traditional brick & mortar stores and affect the buyer's psyche when he realizes that the prices don't match...

ceethreepio wrote:
questccg wrote:
I personally am tired of too many people ruining the KS experience by trying to make TOO TIGHT margins. The difference between #3 and #4 is substantial. If you as the Designer make $0.00 it's a total and complete WASTE OF TIME. Why? How many times will you be able to MAKE and INVEST time and get $0.00??? It's bad business and it's bad KS management.

At this point, I strongly disagree. He's said above, he doesn't want to make a profit. This is a labour of love.

Firstly, he isn't a company, he's therefore not a professional, and therefore doesn't need to make a profit.

Don't KS as an individual. You don't understand the ramifications with regards to taxation. As a company when you acquire funding for a game, that is considered a "liability" and in accounting terms it is marked off as such. If only becomes "profit" once the game has been shipped to the backers. In personal income taxation, there are no such rules. Therefore the monies gathered are considered TAXABLE INCOME in the YEAR they are earned. What this means is that IF you don't complete everything in the SAME YEAR, you will be taxed on the income and therefore lose your funding to produce the game. Again you don't know these facts ... because you are unaware of the ramifications of HAVING a Kickstarter.

ceethreepio wrote:
questccg wrote:
I am offering this advice free of charge...

Dude, it's a public BBS forum - everyone offers their opinion free of charge. :)

He just wants to make a love letter to the Goth community, and this is his way of doing it.

Love letter or not. KS 2.0 is strictly about making "profitable" and "positive" endeavors. If you've KS-ed (and from your comments I see that you have not...) you'll learn that IF you don't have enough profit built into margins, you may run out of monies and not be able to complete your KS obligations.

Again NEVER run a KS as an individual... I've explained the TAX ramification clearly above. As far as "free advice" ... Well they can heed my advice (and warnings) or leave it (and do whatever suits them). And this includes running a KS in the RED...

Sheesh ... I wish people would be informed before being so critical... Cheers!

Note #1: And BTW Nobody wants to have a KS in the RED. Everyone dreams about making millions (if not thousands) of dollars. The excitement behind KS is seeing your game TAKE-OFF and be accepted by the KS community of Superbackers. Again, nobody hopes to run in the RED...

But I've seen campaigns that have earned $250k+ and still need to TRY to have ANOTHER KS campaign to try to earn some PROFIT. You'd be surprised at how many KS just break even or make a little profit.

And all that is because of too tight MARGINS. Which equals BAD PLANNING.

Trust me I know. Our KS made $50k and we have barely enough to cover the cost of making and shipping the game. Again because our margins were too tight and we gave away too many Stretch Goals. Art is very costly, our budget so far is around $10k. $50k - $10k = $40k remaining... Not positive to say the least...

Note #2: And KS made their cut, so $50k - $5k = $45k - $10k (Art) = $35k for production and shipping. Production will be around $20k which means $15k left to ship. 1,000 Backers x $15 (Shipping) = $15k - $15k = A BIG ZERO (0)...! Actually we may make a couple bucks because we are under 1,000 KS Backers (this was just an approximation for you to see the NUMBERS IN ACTION)!

Note #3: And I get "not doing it for the money". Listen I'm spending 2 months of "editing" cards for a game that will give me $0.00 in the end. But I'm doing it "as you say" to get my game "out-there". I want people to play and enjoy my game. And for this to happen it needs to get manufactured and shipped to KS Backers.

But this is only 0.01% of the potential pool of players. Stores and traditional distribution are still possibilities ... Even with pricing issues. We'll see what happens with "TradeWorlds". I will post updates as things happen. I really need to wait and see...

Note #4: And ... Thank you Mr. President Trump for not adding +10% tariffs for game goods coming from China. 10% of $20k would have been another $2,000 and that would have for sure put us in the RED! Like I said, we may still break even. For all the hours of hard work ... Such a pity. Need to see if it can go "Evergreen" and make it as a store staple.

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