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Dragonlance - AD&D Official Game Adventures

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questccg
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Hi all,

I was wondering if any HAD/HAS any of the old "Dragonlance" campaign booklets designed by TSR. They are numbered DL-? (like DL-7 or DL-10, etc.)

They are pre-designed AD&D "Official Game Adventures".

I have one such booklet (DL-10) "Dragons of Dreams" and I would like some explanation on this booklet.

Some of my questions would be:

  • What are the numbers on the Wilderness Map?
  • How do the Chapters work? How does the campaign continue from Chapter 1 to Chapter 2, etc.?
  • How are the Events triggered?
  • How/where are the Encounters triggered?
  • How do Random Encounters occur?
  • How do players "move" from one hex to another on the Wilderness map? Is that in a matter of days, etc.?

I guess the basis for each booklet is similar and so my question are probably more general in nature. I just want to have a better idea how the story is controlled using these elements...

Thanks in advance!

questccg
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Looking to explore other RPG storytelling elements

BTW if anyone has OTHER methods by which to tell a story (such as an RPG) and this is a modular concept, would love to hear more about this...

In my "Dungeon-Crawl" I was exploring how to add the RPG story to a game. Obviously I know of some resources - but there may be others. And they are probably worthwhile investigating further.

I am researching this for "Monster Keep" (a revival of the Dungeon-Crawler type of game but in a different form)...

Godzirra
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not sure

I cant really help you too much. I don't have much Dragonlance stuff. I have hundreds of Ravenloft, Greyhawk, and Forgotten Realms stuff, but I never got into DL and didn't know anyone who did. I did find DL01 (Dragons of Despair) though. cant figure how to upload it here. Want me to email it to you??

Anywho, the numbers I see on the map correspond to a room # or location description the DM reads aloud. You just get there by travelling. Once the party reaches the area with that number, the DM reads the paragraph with the matching number.

Is this NOT what you are asking??? It's been so long, not sure if I'm misunderstanding you.

questccg
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Can't be that simple...

Godzirra wrote:
...Anywho, the numbers I see on the map correspond to a room # or location description the DM reads aloud. You just get there by travelling. Once the party reaches the area with that number, the DM reads the paragraph with the matching number...

That's not possible with my Wilderness Map because the SAME number appears in different hex locations (that's what confuses me...) So there must be another meaning to those numbers! :(

Maybe you could upload the sample image to BGDF... I'll do the same with mine tomorrow. And maybe we can compare the two...

McTeddy
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I don't own the dragonlance

I don't own the dragonlance booklets... so everything I'm saying is a guess from the few game modules I own.

-> I suspect that Godzirra is right about each number being a paragraph. Many "Wilderness" events are generic enough that they can occur many times during a long journey.
Otherwise, they could be "Nothing happens if you have completed this event already."

Remember that the map is generally used to travel from point A to B. The player won't be exploring the map... just taking a slightly different path to his goal.

- - -

As for moving... I've only played solo RPGs with wilderness but I suspect it's the same. Whenever the player needs to travel from a town to a dungeon or something... he pulls out the map.
Each step is one day and there is a chance for something to occur. When you arrive at your "Target Hex" you continue the game as normal.

(Keep in mind, time limits were rather common in my experience for wilderness games)

-> I'm not sure what events are... so I'm going to skip this one. I'll need more details on them for me to even guess.

-> Random encounters are an actual D&D rule and have nothing to do with the module:
When the player does an activity that doesn't involve moving or meaningful action... he makes a random monster check. I believe it's on a roll of 2... you are attacked.
At this point you'd roll on the random monster tables that you find in the quest booklet. This will tell you exactly WHAT you are facing while keeping it balanced for the map.

-> Chapters usually revolve around one or two objectives. You move from one chapter to the next by completing the objectives.

This means chapter 1 might be a village where you need to ask around to find a job. They'll usually have a couple pre-made NPCs that the DM can use to help make the scene.
The players run around in typical RPG fashion asking NPCs for a job. Eventually, they find the "Blacksmith who needs a hero to clear a mine in the east!"

At this point, it's chapter 2... the mine. This could actually just be a story based-encounter before chapter 3... but it all depends on the design.

Technically, this creates a linear story... but these manuals usually served to assist a DM rather than replace them.

Godzirra
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I agree

I think McTeddy is pretty much on it.

I'll try to figure how to separate a couple pages of DL01 and show what I was meaning. But as McTeddy mentioned for instance a map might have #49 in a few spots on the map, then in the middle of the book somewhere paragraph #49 might be something like, "You come across a Dragon nest, blahblahblah". Well, the author may have intended there to be several dragon nests around the area.

questccg
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Linearity

McTeddy wrote:
...Technically, this creates a linear story... but these manuals usually served to assist a DM rather than replace them.

Yeah I am getting the feeling they seem to be more linear that what I had originally thought. Not knowing exactly how the adventure booklet works and it having all kinds of Events and Encounters, I was hoping for some kind of "mechanic" (for lack of a better word) that would help to "document" an RPG Story.

I scanned and uploaded the map, you can see it at: http://www.bgdf.com/node/14411

But there are still some unanswered questions (if you check that link).

From reading the adventure booklet, I just got the impression that it was more storytelling - and I thought that could be very useful (in my Dungeon-Crawl). But now seeing how the linear component of how the story unfolds, makes it less interesting.

I guess I will have to design some kind of "hybrid" storytelling system for the game...

larienna
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Look on the internet, you

Look on the internet, you could probably find a scan of it.

questccg
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Replacing the DM

I was trying to have a way to replace a "Dungeon Master" with having some of the story being "dynamic".

So another alternative to AD&D Adventure Book are the "Fighting Fantasy" books (by Ian Livingstone and Steve Jackson).

Those books ask the player to make choices and therefore the story progresses based on his/her choices. This is great for a book - but it's not necessarily the best option for documenting an RPG story.

Since there are six (6) "Lords of the Keep", I think the game will have six different scenarios. Just because you have already played the scenario doesn't mean it will be the same:

  • The board will be dynamic and different each time.
  • The "setup" of the story will be different each time.
  • The combat that will occur be different each time.
  • The outcome of the game can be different (who wins).

It makes some sense that if players are playing Scenario #1: Lord Asinius, the bald and fat merchant, that the way to win the game (for the Heroes) is identical for each game.

But because of the "dynamic" nature of the board, story elements and combat, the odds of winning will vary greatly. Sometimes the chance of success with favour the Heroes. I want to keep the concept not too complex, so if the Heroes cannot complete the "story" successfully, well then the "Lord of the Keep" wins.

The "Lord of the Keep"'s role is to hinder the Heroes. And he will do so by learning the mysteries of the "Monster Keep" and then use the revealed secrets to try to eliminate the Heroes...

Each Hero will be given "partial information" (a type of Hidden Information) about the make-up of the "Monster Keep". Heroes collaborate together to try to WIN the scenario with the knowledge they have.

The "Lord of the Keep" acts like an "opposing" Dungeon Master, where his purpose is to have the Heroes FAIL.

So my goal is to document some kind of "storyline" into The Lord's rulebook/guidebook. I am thinking about a few types of elements that the game may require: "Events", "Encounters" and "Items". The "Items" will be thematic/story elements that are meant to affect the outcome of the game.

How about a "sample" scenario objective for Lord Asinius? My idea is something like this:

  • Heroes must find the "White Diamond of Pure Thoughts". One of Lord Asinius' minions has stolen the Diamond and hidden it somewhere within his Keep. You must find it first and use it to bribe Lord Asinius such that he grants you and your companions safe passage from his Keep!

This is just an idea... But it gives you an idea about what kind of "storytelling" I want to do for the game...

McTeddy
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First off on the AD&D map...

First off on the AD&D map... Again not sure what event's are so I can't tell you the answer... though I'm beginning to suspect an answer.

In the Dragon Lance computer game you walk across a VERY similar map. Every step you take advances a time track by one day.

As the time track advances the "enemy forces" will move from the north and additional "World Events" will occur. This means that certain good events can only occur early before villagers have fled their homes... or before the guards have "Raised their alert" etc.

While you can theoretically explore the map... you must flee the enemy army and try to reach Pax Tharkas*. You are on a tight time limit to complete your mission and exploring is probably a BAD idea.

*I could be wrong on the name

- - -

Warning, I'm about to do my usual anti-story thing.

I would STRONGLY advice against a story-driven game. Story is only effective the first time through the game... at this point it's just gameplay. MANY video games are one-play only because of their reliance on story.

You'd probably be better off either using "Plot" cards that make up rules for your mission or different "Time Tables" to create a "mechanical story".

The time tables would basically be a track of bad things to come. For example when the track reaches day 5... you reach "Lord Asinius burns the villages of A, B and C. The heroes may no longer rest there."
Have a stack of potentially time tables and you can have unique adventures and expansion possibilities.

The players are no longer there for the "Story"... but the mechanics. Besides, it'll save you alot of work trying to write actual story.

- - -

On a slightly related note... I might use that time table idea. I hadn't thought about it before but I can see it being useful for something in the future.

questccg
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Here's what I got so far

McTeddy wrote:
...I would STRONGLY advice against a story-driven game. Story is only effective the first time through the game... at this point it's just gameplay. MANY video games are one-play only because of their reliance on story.

I'm still working on the conceptual design of "Monster Keep". But I feel that the story lines (and plot elements) would add a BIG replay factor.

For example, each of the six (6) Lords has a different "BONUS". Like for Lord Asinius, he adds +2 Food. What this is used for is to determine which Monster cards the Lord may play against the Heroes. So any Monster that requires 1 or 2 Food can be summoned to fight a Hero.

Obviously there are other tokens (I call them Virtue tokens), each token is either: +1, +2 or +3. And that adds points to help the Lord use his Monsters.

So let's say a room has: 1 Food Token, +2 Virtue Token and is controlled by Lord Asinius.

The resulting possibilities for that room is the following:

  • +5 Food
  • +3 Food, +2 Treasure
  • +3 Food, +2 Bloodlust

So this gives the Lord COMBINATIONS he can use to summon Monsters. So a gluttonous Giant Ogre may require 3 Food to summon... He's a real BAD BOY.

Another alternative is an Goblin that may require 1 Food and 1 Treasure, Asinius could summon two (2) of those...

McTeddy wrote:
You'd probably be better off either using "Plot" cards that make up rules for your mission or different "Time Tables" to create a "mechanical story".

Well I'm thinking about having "Events", "Encounters" and "Relics". In each room players visit, you roll a custom dice this will determine what happens in that room "Nothing" or one of the three (3) above.

Once a player becomes the "Lord of the Keep", the game tiles have been configured with all kinds of "bait" (for the Monsters). And the Heroes are "stuck in the middle" trying to survive and complete the objective required by the Lord.

So I think I'm onto something... But I'd like to add more depth with some kind of story/plot.

Godzirra
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Dragon Lance DL01
questccg
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Thanks!

Well the mystery of "Events" has been uncovered given this DL book. I quote:

"As opposed to encounters, which take place in specific areas, events take place at specific times. They may happen anywhere unless stated otherwise. The first event begins your adventure, then each follows at its stated time in the sequence below."

VERY COOL! Okay so we have a mechanic for WHERE (Encounters) and now WHEN (Events).

We are demystifying things as we move along!

I will take a better look at DL-1 this weekend... Perhaps I will have some questions. My DL-10 has one (1) map and 3 Chapters worth of Encounters. Not sure how encounters work WITHOUT a map?!?!

larienna
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I have a suggestion for you.

I have a suggestion for you. Why not make an adventure game similar to "Middle Earth Quest" but in the world of dragonlance? That could be awesome!

Some players could play the bad guys (ex: Katiara) while other characters could play the good guys. The goal is to make either side triumph. You could make more good guys than bad guys (for example 2 good for 1 bad character).

In middle earth quest, the bad guy is Sauron making plots. But in dragon lance, I don't think there is no single character leading the bad guy's army, so I thought that maybe 2 character could be nice. (ex: 2 bad vs 4 good)

questccg
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Dragonlance?

larienna wrote:
I have a suggestion for you. Why not make an adventure game similar to "Middle Earth Quest" but in the world of dragonlance? That could be awesome!

I think the world of "Dragonlance" is unfortunately owned by Wizards Of The Coast. And we already know their submission policy let's nothing through the door... saddly. :(

However "Middle Earth Quest" (MEQ) is interesting. I will check it out further. From first glance, I like the idea since it is sort of like one player is The "Lord of the Keep" and the other players are "Heroes"... My mechanic is similar to MEQ (in that respect). The tokens idea looks to be similar to MEQ also... The one big difference is the board: in MEQ it's standard. In Monster Keep, I want it to be dynamic like a lot of other Dungeon-Crawl games.

I was trying to find a way to add more RPG elements to the game. I thought that Game Adventure booklets designed by TSR might be a mechanic that I could use.

I still need to think some more...!

larienna
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I only saw video review for

I only saw video review for MEQ, but it has some interesting mechanics for having a game played many vs 1. I wanted to make a crime fighting game using this method and had an hard time finding convenient mechanics.

IN MEQ, sauron tries to fulfil plots that will give him VP, resources or other stuff if completed. Characters tries to stop him.

It's hard to design a game where each side plays differently. But the plot system seems to be an interesting common point mechanic.

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