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[GDS] May 2012 "Mother May I" - Comments and Questions

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sedjtroll
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Use this thread for any comments, questions, requests for clarity, etc., regarding the May 2012 Challenge in the Game Design Showdown, entitled "Mother May I".

-Seth

MarkKreitler
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Best GDS ever?

sedjtroll wrote:
Use this thread for any comments, questions, requests for clarity, etc., regarding the May 2012 Challenge in the Game Design Showdown, entitled ["Mother May I"](http://www.bgdf.com/node/6476).

-Seth

Between the "permission" mechanic and the "spring loaded" requirement, this may be the best GDS ever. And by "best," I mean wacky.

Awesome!

federicolatini
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Doh!

I was really willing to partecipate to this competition since when I found this site, but this combo of springs and permission swiched off my mind, may be in those days to come some ideas will come to my mind.
I wish you a pandora cup of ideas!
Ciao
Fede

Rocconteur
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Starting date end of May 3rd? Could we extend the challenge?

We're supposed to have 7 days? This got published on May 3rd. I'd like to submit, but the 4 days time to create (plus the spring, oy vey) makes it super difficult.

dobnarr
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I agree

The full 7 days would be helpful - I've got a ton to do today and tomorrow, but I'd love to participate, and an extra couple days would help.

sedjtroll
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Rocconteur wrote:We're

Rocconteur wrote:
We're supposed to have 7 days? This got published on May 3rd. I'd like to submit, but the 4 days time to create (plus the spring, oy vey) makes it super difficult.

Yeah, I was going to extend the deadline, but I only just got out of bed! I'll do that now.

I'm interested to see what you guys come up with!

I'll extend the word count to 400 as well.

avalaunch
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This is a really awesome

This is a really awesome challenge. I hope I can come up with a submission in time. The idea of a permission mechanic is really getting my creative juices going.

Mikee
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GDS Done

Entry is in. I enjoyed this one. It really got me thinking and at first everything I was coming up with was way to complicated. Good luck to everyone. Thanks for organizing the GDS.

avalaunch
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Not limited to this

Not limited to this particular showdown, but I think anyone that enters should have to use all 6 of their votes. Either that, or nobody that enters should be allowed to vote. With the way it is now, you're "punished" by voting, and thus your best strategic move is to not vote at all. Assuming we want to encourage voting, that just seems like bad game design.

I understand the hope is that participants will feel compelled out of integrity and mutual respect to vote. And that they won't care enough about winning to not vote. That's probably true for most, including myself, but I don't like that the designers who don't vote are actually increasing their chances to win, thus being rewarded for "bad behavior".

So how many designers aren't voting? If you look at last month, 13 people entered the showdown. If each of those entrants also used all 6 votes, there would be at least 78 votes. But based on the results posted, there couldn't have been more than 72 votes cast (and that's the max that could have been cast - it was probably closer to 60). We can also assume that some percentage of those votes came from people that didn't enter the showdown. My best guess is that a little over half the entrants also voted. And that half was at a disadvantage for doing so.

dobnarr
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Agreed

I've long thought the voting system here had potential for unfairness. For one thing, somebody putting all six votes behind one entry will usually make it win given the normal margins of victory. For another, there's the lose-by-voting issue you describe which I believe has affected outcomes in the past.

I used a different method that fixes both of these problems when I ran the showdown one month, and it seemed to work OK - it's described here:
http://www.bgdf.com/node/5512

and the results are here:
http://www.bgdf.com/node/5604

On the other hand, the contest is a labor of love, and it's a lot of work getting it put together and running it, so anything sedj or others want to do is probably perfectly OK :-)

avalaunch
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dobnarr wrote:I've long

dobnarr wrote:
I've long thought the voting system here had potential for unfairness. For one thing, somebody putting all six votes behind one entry will usually make it win given the normal margins of victory.

I think it's limited to 3 votes per any one entrant, but that's still a lot.

dobnarr wrote:

I used a different method that fixes both of these problems when I ran the showdown one month, and it seemed to work OK - it's described here:
http://www.bgdf.com/node/5512

and the results are here:
http://www.bgdf.com/node/5604

On the other hand, the contest is a labor of love, and it's a lot of work getting it put together and running it, so anything sedj or others want to do is probably perfectly OK :-)

I like your system. I think having points subtracted for not voting is a good way to go.

But I agree 100% that it's up to whoever is running the competition and I'm happy that someone is taking the time and effort to do so. It's much appreciated.

sedjtroll
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I agree that losing points

I agree that losing points for not voting is a good idea. It is difficult to track though, with the way this site does PMs.

I just set up a google doc spreadsheet to maybe do a better job of tracking and organizing votes, and it's got a method for tracking who voted. If this works out nicely then I can maybe implement a penalty for not voting.

Thanks for the feedback!

Infunite Games
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Agree on Voting

I agree with most of what's been said, it's not a good choice strategically to use all of your votes (or vote at all).

I think I saw a structure of voting on BGG that was voting is compulsory, and you vote 1st, 2nd, 3rd (1st place gets 3 puts, 2nd 2 and 3rd 1).

I understand that having more variables to spread around affects one's ability to evaluate (if I think there are two great games two 3 points would be most accurate), it stops the next level of min-maxing which is the next strategic choice to evenly distribute votes so that no one gets your "endorsement"

I'm just thinking as a play tester trying to break the system, I personally try to spend votes as best as I can.

-Michael

dobnarr
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Exactly

Yes, you're describing both what my system did (1st, 2nd, 3rd, with points, and mine had negatives for not voting) and my problem with the current GDS system. With the current system, it's to my advantage to give only three single votes to three different entries. I try not to do that, because strategic voting goes against the spirit of the competition, but you have to decide to place honor above winning to do it that way. I'd rather everybody be (1) penalized for not voting and (2) less able to vote strategically.

I guess even with a ranking system you could still vote strategically and just rank the worst games highest, but then you'd be pretty far up your own butt as far as moral character goes.

avalaunch
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dobnarr wrote: I guess even

dobnarr wrote:

I guess even with a ranking system you could still vote strategically and just rank the worst games highest, but then you'd be pretty far up your own butt as far as moral character goes.

Agreed. Also, it could backfire! If enough people voted that way, the worst game could come out on top.

TeaisforTim
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Why not just give a bonus to

Why not just give a bonus to anyone who uses all of their votes? It seems like it would be much easier to track. When someone who has submitted an entry votes, just give their entry 3 or so extra votes.

dobnarr
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Full results

Any chance we could get the full results? I know you don't normally post them, but I'd rather know how I did, even if I got smushed. Private message is OK if you're not comfortable putting them up here.

Thanks,
Dave

sedjtroll
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results

Rawhide..................................dobnarr...............6
Mother May I...........................crazedferret........0
Teddy Bear Rescue Squad.......Infunite Games..4
Fire that Catapult....................mikee.................2
Artifacts of the Dark Jungle......avalaunch........10
Tea with the Queen.................TeaisforTim........8
May I Come In?........................asakurasol........9
Body Wars...............................Rocconteur........4
Tactical Frenemies...................BMinNY...............5
Out to Sea...............................Matthew Rodgers...5

dobnarr
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Thanks

Thanks!

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