Somewhat angry and flaming Newbies

Heya Eric!

I think that article is really good actually - I have been meaning to write a "sticky2 post like that on one of these forums to direct people to.

It is a common pitfall that people decide that they can "design a game"(I've done it, as have many more) but without actually playing games themselves.

That game designer meetup that you had must have been really infuriating by the sounds of it man, that would have driven me crazy!

I agree partially with what vim said (How to design "good" games) but only because someone could design a "bad" game very easily without any previous experience. But the concept is still strange, can you write a "bad" song if you have never listened to music? Surely it would be noise?

The same way as a really really awful game design (without any previous experience in games) would be so broken and unfair that I could be argued that it is not a game as such?

BUT either way, I think your original article is brilliant Eric, and I shall be pointing people towards it once they show us their new creation: " Duopoly - the hit new roll and move game!! " :(

I assume English is not your first langauge (t'es Francais?) but change first few lines to this:

I will just start with AN illustration:
How doES a writer learn how to write books ... by reading books!
How doES a musician learn how to play music ... by listening to music!
How doES a director learn how to make movies ... by WATCHING movies!
So let me asK this question:
How DOES a game designer learn how to design games? By playing games!

i believe there is more to design than just doing the "basic". For example in music, a Musician can love music all they want however learning to play an instrument would be the first step into making music. After a musician learns an instrument comes learning how music is composed.

You can love listening to all the music you want, but without any knowledge of what it takes to create music you will never actually create anything.

Likewise, in Game design you can play a million games, however if you do not know, understand, or fathom how each game works or how each game affects the players you will not know where to even start when it comes to Game Design.

Lets take the textbook example of creating a Point to Point Game.

The idea is simple, make a game whos objective is to have the players get from Point A to Point B. How easy is it to create a game like this? rather simple, would this make for a great game? probably not... now you need to throw in some psychological warfare and tada you have an instant recipe for a potentially short lived game.

Why? because, knowing how people react to scenarios is first and foremost what will lead to a good game.

Continuing with the example of P to P. Lets say we have Player A start first, what are the advantages of that player starting first? well the are closer to wining the game usually always. They might not have any hurdles that will lead to them losing because they will always be first to get to Point B.

So, what can we do? throw in a random variable. However what are the problems that arise with random variables? one player may end up with too low of numbers that again one player gets an overwhelming advantage. So how do we create a game in which both players have an equal chance at getting from point A to Point B? we would need to add in variables that counter the chance provided by a random variable.

lets say we had players roll a d4. Player A gets 3 and Player B gets 1, however where player A lands it says that they must go back 2 spaces. So now we have countered the advantage that player A had acquired at first. This however leads to an over complex board that might end up being more complex and in the end potentially another game collecting dust in the closet.

I believe as a first step a player should create a P to P game and learn from that simple concept the amount of work it would take to create a great P to P game. To know what players do and do not like to face.

in CCG's especifially in combat based games, Player X will always attempt to make a lot of critters, so when Player Y says discard all the critters how does Player X feel? usually not so happy, but thats the outcome of many games, some players will get upset when their hard work goes down the drain, but is this the designers fault or the players fault? When a designer presents with players the ability to customize any given part of a game it leads to more frustrations but at the same time more enjoyment when met with success.

When a player say, im attacking you for a googleplex and you have nothing to defend your self with, that player will get giddy because they achieved a feat that to them seemed potentially impossible. However, if you said "your critters deal no damage this turn" they would feel a bit frustrated but still have a glimmer of hope that next turn they might get to perform their achievement.

Many new game designers likewise should study what makes a player tick over "i think this is fun" because what you might think is fun may not be what the person next to you might think is fun. Overall the way i see it, is that it takes a lot more than simply "i've played board games all my life" to become a good designer. I do agree that one cannot come from a background of not playing a single game at all and believe they can create the next big hit, however its more than just playing games.

:(

Were they just "sel proclaimed board game heros" that didn't really know much?

Did you say it was a group / meetup thing?

Send them here man, I'll set 'em straight ¬_¬

Do you know the name of the company? This is getting interesting.

Never succumb to the "Tyranny of Reasonable Voices". There are plenty of people out there who are experts in one field or another who like to tell other what can or can't be done so that the world fits into their view of it.

That's not to say that you should ignore criticism or feedback, just be able to consider the source.

I had a friend in High School who's Dad was a competitive Chess player. He knew the game inside and out and had three counters for every move I tried. When we would talk about Chess, it was obvious that he understood the game on an entirely different level than I did and he would make me feel inferior about it. That somehow my lack of deep understanding of Chess made me less intelligent in general than he was.

Because we have this level of deep understanding of our game mechanics and strategies, we have to choose who we have these conversations with carefully. Some will claim to understand and be more worried about a selfish interest in selling your game. Others will claim to understand only because they want to sell you on their idea. You have to find those people who just love games, gaming, and discussing the intricacies and nuances of games with no agenda. That is a tall order and one of the reasons I keep coming back to these forums.

Hope that helps,
Levi

Yes we are going to be demoing our games (and maybe selling some if they get here in time) at Orccon 2012.

Sorry for the thread derail Larienna.