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Why "Ameritrash"?

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kjaine
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It was just something I was thinking about while reading forum posts. Why do we divide the games into "Euro games" and "Ameritrash"? This seems like a Euro-centric viewpoint. It tells me that complex games with lots of pieces (which are popular in America) are worse games than those developed in Europe.

I don't believe this is true. I don't think anyone who enjoys these games thinks that is true either. So why do we still use the term "Ameritrash"? I find this term distressing both as an American, and as a board game enthusiast. There are other ways to distinguish between these two fundamental ways of thinking, but we seem to be stuck with derogatory vocabulary.

Does anyone else think it's weird?
Are there reasons we still use this term that I am not aware of?

drewdane
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It's a matter of perspective.

There are derogatory terms for both types of games. You left the term "Eurotrash" out of your OP.
The term "Ameritrash" was coined by Eurogame enthusiasts, but embraced by Ameritrash fans. That's why it's usage is more common than the counter. I think that is due to the fact that the typical Ameritrash fan doesn't really care whether or not you like the games they play. They accept the ridicule as a badge of honor. (with no "u")
Eurogamers tend to disregard any notion that their preferred games are not superior in every way. It's a cultural difference.
I know I'm in the minority, but I appreciate both styles. I have played, and loved 18xx games for almost 20 years, now. The idea that every single event in the game is determined by the players is intriguing. That said, one of my all-time favorite games is Risk. The quintessential Ameritrash dicefest. There's no accounting for taste, I guess.

tomi71
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Just occurred to me that even

Just occurred to me that even though Settlers of Catan is an Euro game it also uses dice as a randomizer.

I think that dice is a great element for a game. It doesn´t has to be a randomizing element but more of an propablitity factor e.g in a combat. If player plays stupidly the dice will propably be against him. When playing wise the dice is your friend. At least this is the way my combat system works in Evolution Earth. You must support your competitive elements so that the opponents probability of winning is very low. The dice supports this thinking.

I too don´t like the term Ameritrash only because my game has so many components (animal tokens for the most). What´s so trash about that.

brisingre
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I agree

I'm not too partial to the term either. It's very wrong on too levels. Firstly, several of the most quintessentially Ameritrashy games aren't actually American. Titan, for instance, is British, I think. Secondly, it's fairly derogatory to an entire genre. Thirdly, it's not as cut-and-dried (tangent: does anybody know where that term comes from?) as two simple genres. Mare Nostrum is a euro with a ton of pieces, a playtime of several hours, and (if I remember from the one game I played of it several years ago at a convention) a moderate amount of dice-rolling. This continuum also leaves abstract strategy completely out of the picture. I prefer to rank games on a number of factors, including complexity, randomness, play-time, depth of strategy (different from complexity, you can write the rules of Go on a cocktail napkin,) immersiveness (theme,) and quantity of player-to-player interaction. I'm sure I could think of more.

drewdane
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When used properly, dice can be okay.

I'm going to let you in on a little secret. Sometimes things happen that are beyond the control of anyone. Dice can simulate random factors that are beyond anyone's control. When they become the focus of the game though, the game suffers. (see: LCR, a game which involes rolling dice for an eternity, then awarding a victory to a player who did literally nothing whatsoever to influence the outcome of the game.)

Rick-Holzgrafe
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Ameritrash Etymology

Actually the term was coined by a BGG member who was a fan of that genre of games. He did it as a joke, in response to the general air of snobbishness that some people perceive from the Eurogamer culture on that site. Although that OP did mean it as a joke, naturally there were others who couldn't or wouldn't see it that way, and a flame war developed. When the dust had settled, "Ameritrash" had become a familiar and accepted term. In fact, there is a Web site called Fortress: Ameritrash that is devoted to discussing and promoting this kind of game.

Previous posters in this thread have argued that it's not only a derogatory term but an inappropriate categorization. The thing to remember here is that, like a lot of other human activities and products, games resist precise categorization. There are plenty of games that are mixes of the Eurogame and Ameritrash design styles, and plenty of games that mix those styles with other styles, and plenty that are altogether different. Exact lines can't be drawn, but fortunately it's not necessary to place every game neatly into one and only one category.

Whether or not the term is offensive is in the eye of the beholder. The purveyors of "Fortress: Ameritrash" have accepted the term and wear it proudly, while others agree with the OP of this thread and find the term distasteful. I also know someone who doesn't like the phrase "Board Game Geek" because he finds the term "Geek" offensive and inaccurate.

The bottom line, I think, is that we're stuck with both "Ameritrash" and "Board Game Geek". While they do offend some people, they are entrenched. I have seen several efforts made to abolish or replace them (e.g. "Ameritreasure"), but none have been successful.

"Yankee" was meant as an insult when the British first applied it to the American revolutionaries over 200 years ago. We still use it, and except for a few die-hard Southerners for whom it now has a different meaning, we wear it proudly.

SiddGames
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drewdane wrote:Sometimes

drewdane wrote:
Sometimes things happen that are beyond the control of anyone. Dice can simulate random factors that are beyond anyone's control.

This is going off on a tangent, but I really enjoyed Bowen Simmons' take on change in wargames on his design blog: http://www.simmonsgames.com/design/Chance.html

He argues (mainly for wargames, but really applicable to many things) that the use of randomization in a game merely indicates the limits of what you are trying to simulate. For example, suppose you roll dice to determine how much ore is mined in a turn. Are you simulating true chance? Simmons argues that you're really just indicating you don't want to simulate the ore mining in greater detail - how many men showed up for work that day, how efficiently they worked, the density of the ore vein, etc. That chance die roll in a game is not actually reflecting chance in the real world - it's just a catch-all for detail you don't want to include in your game; it's not simulating "random factors that are beyond anyone's control" per se, but simulating many non-random factors that are outside the scope of the design.

Sorry for the tangent, but I couldn't resist shilling one of my favorite designers :)

The Magician
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My take on the subject is

My take on the subject is that the turms accuately describe the game styles. I think it's just best if we can laugh about it and not take it as a personal front on our tasts. I am finding the more I play eruo games is that I am tending not to enjoy them as much as some amerotrahy games I have played (mind you not a lot). I always like the theory of elegance and euro style games though. I like a balance betwen the two.

Jeff Timothy
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Ameri vs Euro

I think one big reason the term Ameritrash has stuck is that it's a very easy word to say. It's got good cadence. The only way it's going to be replaced is if someone comes up with another word which is just as elegant. It's easy to refer to "german style board games" as "Euros" but it's just not the same to call a "wester" style game an "Ameri"

I assume that most people who use the term Ameritrash are thinking specifically of products from the USA. So much for being the little brother to the north...

~Jeff.

tomi71
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What if could simply call it

What if could simply call it Amerithrash instead of ameritrash. It certainly would sound more heavy metal - and it fits the genre specially when considering wargames.

v., thrashed, thrash·ing, thrash·es.

v.tr.

1. To beat with or as if with a flail, especially as a punishment. See synonyms at beat.
2. To swing or strike in a manner suggesting the action of a flail: The alligator thrashed its tail.
3. To defeat utterly; vanquish.
4. To thresh.
5. To sail (a boat) against opposing winds or tides.

v.intr.

1. To move wildly or violently: thrashed about all night.
2. To strike or flail.
3. To thresh.
4. To sail against opposing tides or winds.

n.

1. The act or an instance of thrashing.
2. Music. See speed metal.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/thrash

yes. I used to listen to that.... lol

wade8069
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I am not a US or EURO game

I am not a US or EURO game fan, I am just interested in Janpan games. And Valkyria Profile is a godly like work. You guys can have a try.

seo
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wade8069 wrote:I am not a US

wade8069 wrote:
I am not a US or EURO game fan, I am just interested in Janpan games. And Valkyria Profile is a godly like work. You guys can have a try.

Valkyrie Profile is a console game, not a boardgame.

Michael C
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I think Rick & Drewdane have it right

'Ameritrash', whatever its original entymology, has become a label that the more snobbish Eurogamers use to disparage anything they think is beneath their pure idyll. But just like the term 'geek', it has transcended its detractors.

Many of us embrace the term 'geek', as it sets us apart from the more image-obsessed herd who look down their noses at anyone who prefers having fun to acting 'cool'. Similarly 'Ameritrash' enthusiasts don't give a $*!£ what Eurogamers think, cos they're too busy having fun. (Similarly, Munchkin &/or Live-Action Role-players laugh behind their hands at 'real' role-players who spend most of their time up their own bottoms).

So to a true adherent of the genre, the term 'Ameritrash' is like water off a duck's back. It simply means that you're not as narrow-minded as most of the people around you.

Personally, I enjoy both styles of game - in fact I like any game that has an elegant design and does what it sets out to achieve. I have a well-used, battered old copy of the original 'Axis & Allies' right up there alongside my equally battered copy of 'Settlers' - and in another sub-group entirely, I am a proud owner of 'The Longest Day', though I've never had the time to play the campaign game.

End of Time Games
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unclear rules

I want to use this oportunity to say that the worst thing for me in playing games is when the rules are ambiguous about things. I have this really cool looking game called Tomb and I have passed up starting a game session with it because after set-up I just couldn't figure out what to do with the characters that you recrute in the inn. It made me so mad to purchase this really cool looking game and the rules just don't make clear what you do with these chits. It just sais: "put the character in the inn" leaving so many unresolved game play questions. This brings up an excelent example of making sure your rules are squeeky clearn.

Jpwoo
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Yes I think Ameritrash was

Yes I think Ameritrash was coined on BGG and spawned a ridiculous feud for a little while.

Just using the term "american style" games is fair and non-offensive.

Even if the names don't always fit perfectly it is useful to have the terms sometimes.

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