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A different approach to the Strategy genre ???

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Kanding
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I wanted a more engaging game than Risk, Settlers or Chess.
Nothing wrong with these games, but the game play is fairly simple and the outcome are clear, early in the game.
Introducing many elements, require lots of rules, game tokens and instruction manuals.

For 20 years, not fulltime of course, I've been working on Race of Man.
Its a cross between, Risk, Settler and Civilization, with some new game elements.

I'll soon be starting a campaign on Kickstarter.
Meanwhile, if you're interested in following the progress, head over to https://www.facebook.com/Race-of-man-1014249918655199/

I will keep everyone updated as to when the campaign starts, and will release info about any progress.

If you are totally impatient :-), you can read the draft for the campaign here: http://www.raceofman.dk/rom.html
The video is missing, but it's in the works

Thanks for any comments, likes, follows etc. you may throw at it.

Cheers

John Kanding

ElKobold
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So... what exactly in your

So... what exactly in your approach is different then?

Do you make the visual design by yourself?
Things like font and how the box and the board looks. (Are those final btw?)

P.S:
It might be me, but comparision with Risk and Chess might scare away potential players.

UPDATE:
So I've read through the description of the game and some of the rules.
And I have some more questions:

1) How much playtesting the game went through?
2) Did you test it with random people? I.e. not friends&family
3) Which strategy games, apart from Risk and Settlers, have you played recently?

polyobsessive
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Playtesting?

I've had a scan through and have exactly the same questions as ElKobold.

I would also suggest that, assuming there has been a lot of playtesting, you get someone to proofread your page (and probably your game materials too).

Also a lot of blind testing by people who are willing to be really picky (and tell you about it), which should spot stuff that is unclear or inconsistent.

Kanding
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Thanks for comments.

Hi ElKobold !

As for design, a Visual Artist makes them. Ill update the page with he's name(if he agrees with that). Thanks

Not all of the design is done yet. Some is prototype. I wrote that under GAME OBJECTIVE. Maybe I underline earlier in the document

Ive playtested it a lot through the years. Expecially NOT with friends :-)
Thats how I ended up with the version I have now.

You're definitely right ... I have not tested all the thousands of games that's been released. :-)
It was a way to tell that the game has more game elements than games like Risk and Settlers. But still is easy to follow. Not to be cocky. Sorry if it came out wrong

So what makes it different.

1. There are 6 units, but collected in one token, so you shouldnt run out of one kind

2. The environment plays a big role and the players must co-operate now and then to balance things

3. The board is round(not like a globe but by coordinate) so there are no safe corners

4. Diseases and Outlaws are NPS that moves randomly around the board

5. Cards & Unexplored areas are shuffled randomly to avoid some players keeping track

If theres a game that has all this, I would be interested to see and play it of course :-)

John

Kanding
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Thanks

Hi polyobsessive

You can see my comments above at ElKobold, since you have the same questions :-)

And, since you have the same, it's a sign of things missing, so I will of course adress these in the Kickstarter doc.

Was it clear what the games was about for you?

The first draft I actually uploaded a big part from the tutorial, but many suggested that it was a bit to much to digest. So I been through new versions of the Kickstarter doc, to describe it in overall terms.

Maybe putting a link to the tutorial and the manual might help those who wants the deeper details.
Do you think that would be helpful to some ?

John

ElKobold
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Ok, some more questions

Ok, some more questions then...

1) Who are your target audience?
2) Which games specifically your game is aiming to replace?

Potential problem I see here is that if it's "Chess, Risk and Settlers", I don't feel that it is going to work out for you in its current form.

(Disclaimer: Please don't take my scepticism personally, I`m trying to help by sharing what little KS experience I have. Also, I might be wrong in some, or all, of my assumptions).

So..

Two of these three games you've mentioned are arguably so called "gateway" games (and rather old ones at that) and the third is a centuries old abstract strategy.

From what I've seen on KS, people there are mostly past the Risk and Settlers stage. I.e. they will be hardly excited by a game which is "like Risk, but different" as they tend to not hold Risk in high regard in the first place (mostly due to its randomness and unjustifiably long playing time).

98% of "chess-like" games are failing on KS, as are most abstract games (or at least that's the impression I`m getting).

Your game is extremely heavy on the randomization side. It might be the way you present it, but it felt like there's very little actual choice for the players to make, between the "draw a card and read it" and "roll a dice and see where something moves".

Take a look at Bloodrage, Through the ages: a new story of civilization, Twilight struggle, Game of Thrones, Small world.

These are all extremely different strategy games, of different levels of complexity and with different themes, but they will give you an idea of "what else is there" and what your potential backers might expect.

Both from the sense of gameplay and visual design.

P.S: I've sort of like the idea of polution causing negative events, but if it's affecting everyone with equal chance, then why should any player bother with fighting it?

For this to work there must be a mechanism where only the player who have committed least to the cleaning of polution gets the negative effect (or everyone, but the player who committed most)

Kanding
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I value your feedback

Hi !
Anything is appreciated. So please dont hesitate to say what you like/don't like.

Target audience: First of all I did the game, because I felt a lot of strategy games either had a very steep learning curve(for my brain) or where too simple. So I hope to reach people that like strategy games, and people that often doesn't bother to learn that much. Mainly because I think that hardcore gamers don't drop a game just because theres been put effort into making it easy. IF, of course the game is interesting :-)

I have dropped the association to Risk, Settlers and Chess, because it was just to illustrate simple strategy games. Not to make a direct comparrisson. So many thanks for pointing that out.

I actually changed the link to kickstarter preview directly, for easy changes.

The random is not in the way of the players feeling the dont have control.

The random is merely for
- which way the Disease travels
- what city is hit by a catastrophe
- If you chop down trees in the rainforest for resources, WILL the environment be affected by that
... and things like that

But I will try to point it out more clearly.

I will look at the games you suggested.

The pollution works in two ways.
Either a player has to pay ressources IF he/she has a factory in that city.
This of course only affects that player

or

A global disaster occurs that WILL affect the environment after 6 rounds. Unless the players agree to send a ship from the 4 harbor cities to the area. And here 1 player can turn the thumb down. (Just like in the EU :-)) So everyone is in a worse shape after that. But that's how it is in real life as well. I kind of like that

Thank you so much for comments and suggestions

John

polyobsessive
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OK...

Kanding wrote:
Was it clear what the games was about for you?

Pretty much, yes. I believe I got the general gist, but it seems unappealing to me, largely as it looks like there are a lot of different parts that haven't yet been brought together to smooth gameplay and ease learning.

Kanding wrote:
Maybe putting a link to the tutorial and the manual might help those who wants the deeper details.
Do you think that would be helpful to some ?

Absolutely yes. If you want people to give you their money, you should give them as much information as you can to convince them that your game is as great as you say it is.

From what you are showing, though, I think you need to do a lot more work, even if it is just tidying up. For instance, there are a lot of typos and spelling mistakes both in the text and on the pictured components.

ElKobold
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Umm... but if the city being

Umm... but if the city being hit is decided by random, then there's no reason to invest in anti-polution. And the more players there are, the less reason to do it.

Unless you have more cities than all other players combined, it's statistically more viable to cause polution as it's more likely to hit your opponents.

While if it hits everyone, there's no reason to prevent it either. Any player who have committed resources to fight polution is ending up in a worse position than a player who didn't, regardless if the event triggers, or not.
(Provided it hits everyone)

And again - I very much question the complete randomness of this effect in the first place. There's no choice there - just making the moves.

Kanding
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thx

Ok, if thats your understanding, then I might work more on the explanation :-)

Thanks for your input. Ill run another spell check on the site as well

Kanding
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Its odd that we need to add a subject to a reply

... anyway.

Pollution hits in a random city, but only have effect IF the city has a factory. So if you dont have a factory, you dont create polution and are not "hit" by this effect.

Its intentionally that if you are a small nation you can think of messing up the environment that will statistically hit the larger nations.
But it could hit you as well. So no cheap shots here.

I could make look-up tables with lots of conditions for pollutios effects and anti-pollution etc. But that is another game. This has to be simple.
So maybe you're not the target audience, even tho you might enjoy the game, as mentioned earlier. :-)

Dont get me wrong your input is valuable to me !!

As the another user wrote, he didn't fully understand the Kickstarter explanation of the game, so I have to work harder on this.
And this is essential.

So I will focus on this.

Thank you once again for your inputs

polyobsessive
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Not sure you understood what I intended to say

Kanding wrote:
As the another user wrote, he didn't fully understand the Kickstarter explanation of the game, so I have to work harder on this.

I assume you mean me?

That's not really what I meant, so apologies for being unclear. That is entirely on me.

I think your clarity of explanation is OK (apart from the spellings, etc.) and is certainly better than some I have seen.

My problem is that it makes the game look like there are just loads of rules in there and many ideas that probably seemed like a good idea but it looks like the game might be disjointed and awkward feeling to play. It looks a lot like a game where the playtesting has not been thorough and the designer has not been asking the right questions, really listening to the answers, and watching how the players behave when they are playing.

I may be entirely wrong, and I may be reading more into your page than I should, in which case I apologise, but it really looks like the game just isn't ready to be published. And I'm not just meaning from an art/graphic design point of view.

I don't mean to beat on you or your game. The basic idea of having the pollution and other environmental threats rolled into a game of territory and wealth building has the potential to be really good. But the way things look at the moment, I would guess that you will miss funding by some margin.

I would be happy to have a read through your rules as they stand and see if I can help you find the good, the bad and the ugly in them.

Also, ElKobold is raising some great points: try reading them carefully and figure out answers to them without getting defensive. He is also trying really hard to point you in the right direction so you can end up with a successful game. It just might take you longer than you had hoped. If you have, as you say, been working on this game for 20 years, a few more months of working with people here can't hurt, can it?

Kanding
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Great commitment

Hi !

Yes I meant you, but could not see the thread so I lost your name, sorry.

I think we have a great dialog about the game, so I hope you not taking my explanations as defensive. I just want to clarify what I think you mean and explain what I mean.
I have corrected several things already. Even found some spelling errors :-)

I did a quick "fix" for the dice section to be clear that the user are not left to chance, but its part of some extra challenges for the players.
But I will work more on the whole doc over the next couple of days.

I can send you the rule book at some point. They are still being translated from Danish. There's also a tutorial but it only makes sense when having the game in front of you.

The part where you write that it basically feels "unfinished"(in lack of a better summon up word). Its hard to say if its my explanation text, the game it self or your understanding of my explanation.

Im working on a video showing the game being played. That might help a lot in understanding the game concept. I would love to hear your thoughts on this when finished.

Thank you so much for "beating" me to catch up.

polyobsessive
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Fair enough

I'm glad you aren't taking our comments and questions as attacks. :)

I'd be happy to look over your rules and maybe your gameplay video. I'll keep an eye on this thread for when you have them.

Good luck.

ElKobold
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One of the greatest

One of the greatest discoveries for me last year was the use of Tabletopia as prototyping platform.

I`m actually moved most of my designing process (pass the intial "sketch") there, as opposed to the physical thing. Makes so much easier to find playtesters and make those demonstration videos.

It takes a little bit of getting used to and some minor photoshop skills, but saves tonns of time in the end.

Arcuate
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Kanding wrote:Ill run another

Kanding wrote:
Ill run another spell check on the site as well

Know, spell cheque is not enough. Ewe knead two look four other errors.

polyobsessive
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Perfect

Arcuate wrote:
Know, spell cheque is not enough. Ewe knead two look four other errors.

Sometimes I really miss the ability to thumb posts on this site. I would do so for this comment.

Kanding
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Wauu

Tabletopia look really great. I will look into it. Thanks

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