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New Game needs support

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MAR
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Hello,

We have friends who run a local Goat Ranch (Dizzy Doe's Goat Ranch) and they have put together a game and have started a Kickstarter. I was just informed of this yesterday so I am helping spread the word.

The game is called The Great Goat Wars. Please check it out, back and or spread the word as you see fit.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/goatwars/the-great-goat-wars-game?r...

Thanks!

-Austin

questccg
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Umm... no offense... But

Don't you think these people already have enough of a business with goats, ducks, bees, store, B&B, ranch (visitors market), etc.??? Nothing wrong with a side hustle ... But in this particular case, don't you think they already have enough of a business as-it-is?!

It's like everyone in this world wants to make and sell games and yet most are in it as a side-hustle or produce one game and be on with it.

I find this creates a lot of "noise" in the TableTop Gaming Industry. And just in terms of Kickstarters being launched is about 100 PER DAY! Multiply that by 365 days and you get 365,000 games launched PER YEAR!!! That's all of the "noise".

Lately KS has become a game of NUMBERS. It's no longer you could post up a game or product and get 100 to 200 Backers. No, now you need to find your own Backers via Facebook Advertising which is not cheap. Even then, many people are using it to promote all their games and like this creator said: "Goat Lords is one of their favorite games..." So why not just buy copies of "Goat Lords" at a wholesale price (which is 50% off retail) and sell the games RETAIL from their store (even if they did NOT create the game).

Some people invest YEARS in "Designing Games" and people get the impression that just because anyone CAN "create" a game ... Doesn't mean that the MARKET is looking for that kind of game. And I too as a Game Designer have faced that reality to only get 6 Backers on Day 1 ... I've gotten the same results with my "Dual Dice" campaign which pitches real novel "custom designer dice"!

If these people who run this farm want to be SMART... They would simplify their lives and focus on RESELLING "Games" that are out there. It only takes one phone call to a distributor and say that you are interested in re-selling Board Game "X" (or Goat Lords)... That would save them the effort of Kickstarting, Manufacturing (which can take longer than expected) and Freight (with all the hidden fees including brokerage and other connected fees).

I'm only saying this because I am trying to SIMPLIFY this "side hustle"... Make it easier on them, because although they may have time for all the work involved in running a campaign, it might be MORE lucrative to retail an existing "Goat Game"... And retailers take the largest portion of the pie (50%)... If I had a venue that required minimum investment, making 50% take off of retail and capable to carry a limited inventory (1 SKU) ... Well that would be something to really THINK about.

Best of luck with your farm friends. Like I said, Kickstarter has become a very hard business. Sorry to disappoint, I'm just being honest because I too am in a similar situation with the only difference being that this is NOT a "side hustle" for me...

Sincerely.

questccg
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Also ...

You need to remember that at MINIMUM they need to produce 1,000 units (maybe 500 if you go with some other Manufacturer)... Would storing and having 1,000 units and pay for Freight, Brokerage and all the additional hidden fees... Is that WORTH IT???

So they'll need to see if one of the distributor sells them "Goat Lords". Isn't it easier to speak to a person on the phone, explain that they only want to resell one game and what could be the possibilities in getting that game at a wholesale price point???

Because they'd get it at 50% off of RETAIL! This means maybe buying 10 copies.

Compare 10 copies to 1,000 copies... Again not being a @sshole, I'm just explaining what is the more "reasonable" course of action and lowers the amount of time taken to handle this "side hustle" and make it just as profitable!

Cheers!

questccg
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Something to consider

There are OTHER "Goat" Games... I just took at look at "Mountain Goats" and man that game looks professionally done. Here have a look for yourselves:

https://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/305985/mountain-goats

I'm sure, you could make a deal for 30 games (10 of each with 3 games) ... And SELL these games in your store! Something like this is NOT a non-negligible order TBH. That's like a $300 USD order (on average)...

You can sell at RETAIL (50% Markup) and the "indie" Publisher gets a NEW and happy customer. Again just some advice from a 3rd party seeing what this Goat Farm is trying to do...

questccg
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Easier than pie

Mountain Goats is available from the following Publisher:

https://www.BoardGameTables.com

The RETAIL price point is $19.00 USD. So maybe if you contact this Publisher and ask nicely that you want to re-sell their "goat" game... Maybe they can offer you a deal.

A sale, is a sale, is a sale! IDK maybe that price is discounted too... So maybe the you can charge higher because of shipping. It's like a PUZZLE and something that your "Goat Farm" can figure out. It's really not that hard IF you want to SELL. MAKING on the other hand is very complicated.

Again just honest advice.

Note #1: To Canada the price of shipping is $9.00 USD. So that means that the price is $28.00 USD! Maybe be less expensive in the USA. And you can buy ONE (1) copy try the game out and SEE if it is FUN!

Then you can contact them and see what kind of price they can offer for 10 units... I'm sure they'll be able to negotiate a reasonable deal...!

questccg
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Again pretty easy too...

Gatwick Games is the Publisher of "Goat Lords". Their sales price is $19.99 USD plus shipping. Buying 10 copies is like $100 USD.

https://gatwickgames.com/pages/goat-lords

Again the 50% markup for RETAIL. Again pretty simple, I just visited the BGG page, clicked on the Publisher which then led me to their website. From there I simply checked-out the games they had and found "Goat Lords"!

Your Goat Farm friends have the difficult part: the VENUE. But if you have people already coming to the store to visit the animals... Keep it simple and buy some wholesale copies of some of the "Goat" games that are cool.

You'll have like 20 to 30 games in inventory instead of 1,000 games that you need to worry about freight, brokerage and so forth...

It's pretty HARD to "resell" if you don't have a STORE. Your "Goat Farm" friends have the HARD PART (the store)... Now adding a couple games to the store... Should be an EASY project.

Wishing them all the best. But the KS will probably "bomb-out" like my own experience on KS this time around...

let-off studios
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Whoops!

...I thought the subject of the original post was, "New Game needs support." I suppose I should check my reading comprehension skills.

PS: Backed the game anyway. :)

questccg
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I'm just being brutally honest...

Do they want to invest $200 - $300 USD and sell someone else's COOL GAMES ... Or do they want to invest thousands of dollars to make a game that may not even sell out ... because we all know 1000 games is a LOT.

If it's a "side hustle" and it seems like it is... Save yourself all the time and aggravation (and you can be selling games with only a $200 USD investment).

I know this because my FIRST game "Quest Adventure Cards(tm)" which is no longer in print cost me $20,000 CAD to make and when I had made the game, there was no one who wanted to buy it. I'm not saying this will be the same with their GOAT game, I'm just saying selling 1,000 units of anything is hard.

Much easier to sell 20 units and be done with it... Make money and go for a 2nd round and buy another 20 units, etc.

That's the kind of "SUPPORT" I can offer: Good advice (which can be ignored)!

P.S.: I backed it too (for $10 USD). Sorry I live outside the USA so no other reward levels are suitable for me. In any case, I'm offering some monies towards the goal at the end. (@let-off studios) reminded me that I could financially help support the project too! Cheers.

questccg
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Let me clarify a bit...

The hard part is "OWNING" the STORE! If you already have a way to lure customers to your store (and you do with all the animals) ... Well then that is the difficult part. Contacting anyone saying you want to sell their games... Will of course be given a ton of thanks for helping out all of the "indie" Game Publishers... Like I say, never pay more than 50% for a game... So whatever they sell it at, you pay 50% and sell at RETAIL.

So why aren't more people just buying games and SELLING them??? Because RENT is high for commercial space, then you've got electricity bills (and pay for heating and cooling depending on the season) ... If you OWN a store, you need to have a whole INVESTMENT into stock that you put into your store (and I'm talking about a GAME STORE)... Very costly to run and own.

But if you already have a STORE and just want to add some games to the mix... Well that sounds to be easy... I've offered up the links to the publishers of a couple "Goat" Games. It will be probably more cost effective to get 10 copies of a couple games and sell those.

If you however have a DREAM of being a Game Designer... Or making your own games... Well that is something else. Cheers whichever path you choose or even decide to go on both...

MAR
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New Game

Quest, I'm sorry your expensive game endeavor didn't work out. I haven't played the game, I'm sure it's fine. I'm assuming you still have some for sale then? What is the price? Maybe I'll pick up one.

Anyways, on to the topic at hand, I could really care less if lots of people want to make games. I love games and lots of people like games. I don't want to speculate on the mindset of the designers of this game and campaign (I found out about it after it was live on Kickstarter), and I don't have any clue if they put 1 week into the game or years. The point here is that the game is made and on kickstarter, so I'm simply supporting it and spreading the word.

Perhaps they, like me and countless others, might have made the game simply for the fun of it? Making games is fun, not just playing or selling games. The creation process if fun, and many people might not care if it isn't the next biggest thing. People might hope it is popular, or think it would be a nice secondary thing, but many people simply like the creativity.

Either way, I only posted here to spread the word, not start a board game economics discussion or a discussion on board game design theory.

I'm sure they thank you for your support.

-Austin

terzamossa
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Hey Austin, it is kind of

Hey Austin,
it is kind of impossible not to back something that describes itself as "goatacular", unfortunately they don't ship games to Italy, so just I became a goat whisperer, let's see how this goes :)

The campaign could have been a bit stronger though, if you think they are happy to receive suggestions I can send you some notes.

Cheers,
Antonio

questccg
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Just remember...

MAR wrote:
...Either way, I only posted here to spread the word, not start a board game economics discussion or a discussion on board game design theory...

Just remember that this is a site for DISCUSSION and not PATREON. People like to talk about games, share their ideas, get ideas when they may be stuck, ask suggestion on how to improve their game's mechanic, etc.

So every time someone posts a NEW thread, the goal is to ENCOURAGE discussion of said Original Post (OP). If they are only looking for MONEY, they've come to the wrong place. Most Game Designers are invested in their OWN games and have to pay for things like Graphic Design and Artwork/Illustrations for the games that they are working.

Still, some may like PLAYING board games and so that's why we don't mind seeing NEW games on Kickstarter ... Because some of us enjoy backing cool and innovative projects.

But if they are asking you to find Backers for their campaign ... is a bit outside the scope of BGDF.com. Instead you should post one of their REVIEW Videos which presents their game in a positive light and shows how the game is to be played.

I'm not saying that you won't find a couple people on BGDF.com who will contribute. But you would be better off going to Facebook groups and SELL the game there... Just search for "Kickstarter" or "Crowdfunding" in FB Groups and I'm sure you'll find a bunch. Maybe even find people who want to back the game... That's a much better plan to find more Backers.

Cheers.

questccg
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No worries...

MAR wrote:
Quest, I'm sorry your expensive game endeavor didn't work out. I haven't played the game, I'm sure it's fine. I'm assuming you still have some for sale then? What is the price? Maybe I'll pick up one.

The game is out-of-print ATM. But I have gotten e-mails from people who would like to pickup their own "Booster Packs". Who knows I may make a TGC version of the game because it costs nothing and means I start with a clean slate.

And as far as my mistakes, I like to share them to encourage people to make more qualified decisions. From my assessment of the situation, with all their businesses ... It really sounded like: "We just want to sell some games at our store..."

If this is true, why not simply spend like $200 to $300 of a couple Goat Games... Play them first and see if they like them... And start selling TODAY for Christmas... Not 6 months down-the-line when the whole shipping containers debacle is figured out...!

I truly meant no disrespect to the Designer ... I'm just saying there are more DIRECT ways to earn income than venturing into designing games... And probably less EXPENSIVE ways to do so also.

Take for example "Dual Dice" the cost to finance a MINIMUM order is $1750 USD or about $2000 CAD. That compare to dropping $200 to $300 and start making money TOMORROW ... Is pure GOLD... Heck I would start selling the RIGHT kind of games ASAP. But I don't have a store, I can't afford to pay commercial rent, I don't have employees that will work for free, and there are utility bills also which make the cost PROHIBITIVE to sell maybe 1 to 2 SKUs. You need like 500 SKUs and need to invest in that inventory!

My only point was to HELP these people out and suggest an ALTERNATE course of action... That could be more lucrative.

No worries Austin... I'm just trying to show what are the alternatives...

Note #1: Just wanted to make another small point and it is this: MY "Dual Dice" will cost about $2000 CAD to make and ship. I need to pay $400 KS Fees and that leaves me with $4000 CAD - $2400 CAD = $1600 CAD. A little bit of money but it's going to take MONTHS to fulfill because I had planned to do it AT HOME (from my Home Office).

Is it truly worth it??? I'm not 100% sure. At the minimum probably NOT! So it was either going to be a rocket or a sunken Titanic. And right now, it means that I don't have to worry about HOW I will fulfill 1000 orders.

Again more explanations... And all they are looking for is more Backers.

Sorry I gave them something to help them along. Cheers!

questccg
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Also ...

Do these people KNOW of "The Game Crafter" (TGC)??? Because I feel like this game which seems to have a box, cards and rulebook could be EASILY made into a TGC product...

Then instead of investing into 1000+ games... THEY can buy like 10 or 20 copies of "Goat Wars"! They don't need to sell their game on TGC either. They can buy Designer copies only meaning you pay COST instead of wholesale or retail.

Okay maybe you won't make 50% markup. TGC is a bit pricier... But here's where my other point drives home: You only need to spend $100 to $200 USD for "Goat Wars" made on "The Game Crafter" (TGC).

Then buy like 10 or 20 copies and that's it.

Please talk to these people and show them TGC! It would be a Godsent for them. And wouldn't require a KS or Overseas Manufacturing or Freight, etc.

It's YOUR Job Austin to at least SHOW them TGC!!! If you don't I'm going to hop on a plane to the USA and kick your butt! (LOL) Just kidding... BUT TGC would help them ALOT!!!

I hope they succeed in their endeavor ... But it seems like the direction ATM is a bit questionable.

Sincerely.

questccg
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Furthermore...

With "The Game Crafter" (TGC) you may only make like 30% (instead of 50%)... But if you buy like 10 "Goat Wars" Boxes, you will get a "small" volume discount. This discount usually goes up to 100 units. And no, I'm not saying you guys should spend on 100 units... Like I said, I would start with 10 to 20 and squeak out some extra savings.

But again YOU are the retailers. So getting 30% is better than NOT having a store. So if you sell for $20 USD your game, it will probably cost around $14 USD when buying at COST on TGC.

However the amount of Risk, Investment, Shipping fees and so forth, are GREATLY reduced. And in the future, I also plan to make a game on TGC too... We are actively working on Art/Illustrations for that project.

The other point is: make things in China that cannot be made in the USA. Like my "Dual Dice", I made prototypes on TGC (using stickers) but when it comes to making the REAL DEAL, I need custom molds and specialized equipment to make those dice a reality.

So I'm not averse to using TGC for my own projects and like I said, use China when there is no USA alternative. Yes TGC does do custom dice but they are very costly and cannot do what I need with "Dual Dice".

In any event, I'm just trying to help with KNOWLEDGE and FACTS. Cheers!

Red_Rook
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^

^

Red_Rook
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MAR - that's nice of you to

MAR - that's nice of you to help out your friends and to let us know about new games.

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