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Check this Kickstarter out!

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questccg
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https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/248983394/ossic-x-the-first-3d-audi...

Imagine that after you watch the VIDEO and then go to the comments section, just to figure out that the company went bankrupt and never ever made the headphones they were promising to make.

Look at the quality of the VIDEO and all the technology and certifications... And it's all pure BS ... Because they never made ANYTHING and they aren't going to return the $2.8M dollars in reward money.

Now that is SCARY!!!

X3M
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Let's add injury to the pain

As someone who has some experience, regarding headphones and 3D games (Unreal Tournament). I can tell you that 3D audio existed long before that kickstarter started.

Anything that they pasted around this fact is complete BS indeed. But the generic people are easy to influence.

I Will Never Gr...
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It happens .. but it's rare, especially in games

Kickstarter stats (from Kickstarter: https://www.kickstarter.com/fulfillment);

9% of Kickstarter projects failed to deliver rewards.
8% of dollars pledged went to failed projects.
7% of backers failed to receive their chosen reward.
65% of backers agreed or strongly agreed with the statement that “the reward was delivered on time”

Some of the biggest failures in board games,

Space Goat:

Evil Dead 2 - $722,000 raised July 2016, never delivered
Terminator - $220,000 raised Feb 2017, never delivered

Palladium Books:
Robotech RPG Tactics ($1.4 million, less than 50% of the pledged product actually manufactured and delivered)

Anything that involves Golden Bell Studios .. a complete and utter disaster (even if partially delivered and in retail in some cases).

Jay103
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My video games were calling

My video games were calling 3D audio interfaces in.. well, 1998 at the latest. Maybe 1995. It wasn't awesome, but there were routines for it.

questccg
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OMG 49ers were totally robbed by the referees!

Can't believe how a couple of wrong calls (My Uncle said 4 ... but I can only remember 2 plays). One in the first half that could have put the 49ers 13 or 17 to 10 before the end of the half. And then in the last quarter where Chiefs were awarded a TD when the ball had NOT crossed the end zone line and the player's feet were outside the area of play... Terrible calls.

Oh well that's the NFL for you... (Darn referees)!

let-off studios
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KS Kickers

This sounds like a nightmare. Obviously I'd feel terrible about losing like $300 or more on something like this if it had happened to me. I'd be doing my best to invoke my backer's rights or whatever those people are doing in the comments, in an effort to recoup at least a little something.

That being said, I'm ambivalent and fairly unsympathetic towards people who bet the farm on Kickstarter. The crowd-sourcing platform has been round long enough that people understand that there are significant risks involved in any online campaign.

Jay103
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There are no backers' rights.

There are no backers' rights. As long as the campaigner makes an effort to finish the project and spends the money on that, they're fine. Failure is not a problem. If they STEAL the money and do nothing, there's probably something you can do, but even then.. prove it.

questccg
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Hmm... What is STEALING???

Like if I'm a big CEO of a 3D Headphones company and I pay myself $250k per year as a salary and then I have a wife who works as the Secretary and earns another $100k per year to maintain the meeting minutes. And then I have to pay my CFO (the accountant and Treasurer) another $150k per year to do the accounting of where and how the money is being spent...

That's $500k ALONE in Year #1... And nothing has been DONE!

Is this considered STEALING??? I mean it could only mean the effort and time put in to "RUNNING" the business (and believe me they are taking the money and running for sure...)

Is this WRONG in some way??? Or is it just a question of "Doing Business" as normally as possible?

Note #1: I, personally, don't do this... But I'm sure there are people OUT-THERE doing exactly this. Some people live life high-off-the-hog (as they say) and spend way more than they earn and run with all kinds of wild and crazy ventures. I don't (I repeat) ... But there are a certain percentage of people out-there who do!

That's EXACTLY the reason I turned down a "partnership" offer (many moons ago...) Not to say I am not involved with "exciting" ventures nowadays... Hey I enjoy Game Designing! Enough excitement for me! LOL

Note #2: I'm actually the OPPOSITE, I try to run an honest ship and do the editing myself (Yeah it's been 2 months already!) Because I know HOW-TO do it ... So I might as well save some dollars by getting it all done myself... That's more my approach... And did I say I get $0.00 dollars for this effort!

Jay103
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That's why I said, "Prove it"

That's why I said, "Prove it" :/

questccg
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Exactly!

The real issue is this: IF one of my business (and LLC) owns all the assets to my person (Home and Cars) and the books are paid to maintain this businesses yearly activities, it DOESN'T mean that I can't have 10 other companies that are in fluctuating states in which there are positive and negative balances. Maybe they aren't all that bad (aside from owning a nice home which is paid off in full) and your other businesses are relatively neutral (positives + negatives = $0.00). So $2.8M went into managing and conducting product R&D, test-cases with people's testimonials, what appears to be a LEGITIMATE use of funds... What happens when the money runs out???

So you tried to run a business and it failed. They could have OTHER businesses in better shape currently running and earning a modest profit...

That's where the LLC and limited-liability comes into the picture. Sure Banks can tell you to "Fuck Off" ... But if you're managing to stay afloat with NEW "ventures" which inject money... It's not possible to say that this CEO is BAD or GOOD. Because they are managing SEVERAL businesses. And like all businesses some make money others lose money.

The real tough deal is managing the books to balance and prove that you might not be such a BAD CEO ... Even if you're taking a lot off the top.

let-off studios
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Bad vs. Good

questccg wrote:
It's not possible to say that this CEO is BAD or GOOD. Because they are managing SEVERAL businesses. And like all businesses some make money others lose money.
A CEO that deliberately mulcts nearly 3 million dollars from investors while enriching itself, staying afloat only through exploitation of additional shell companies?

To consider that CEO "good" is delusional.

I see where you're coming from - by objectively considering capital expenditure and distribution, and the supposed function of "the corporation" - but to do that is not only myopic and narrow-minded, but it instantly damns capitalism and reveals its true allegiance: not to society, but to greed itself.

I'm personally convinced that there must be some unwritten rule that prevents any CEO worth their MBA to behave in such a way as to let everyone "see the man behind the [capitalist] curtain." So it goes.

I realize I sound all high and mighty here, but hearing someone defend greed through some narrow, objective measure raises my hackles considerably.

Jay103
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let-off studios

let-off studios wrote:
questccg wrote:
It's not possible to say that this CEO is BAD or GOOD. Because they are managing SEVERAL businesses. And like all businesses some make money others lose money.
A CEO that deliberately mulcts nearly 3 million dollars from investors while enriching itself, staying afloat only through exploitation of additional shell companies?

To consider that CEO "good" is delusional.


Must... avoid.. political.. statement..

let-off studios
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Political Statement vs. Critique

I'd say this is far from a political statement (and regarding that subject I've also held my tongue, personally speaking). But just today I've read an article in the local paper about how a member of the Kuwaiti royal family was swindled out of over $6 million, by an incompetent businessman.

https://www.baltimoresun.com/maryland/baltimore-city/bs-md-ci-kuwaiti-ro...

Quote:
“You’re not going to see Rolexes or Porsches. What you’re going to see are a couple rundown buildings that Mr. Agbodjogbe tried to flip, but didn’t have the expertise," Sweeting told jurors. “It was a stupid investment; we can acknowledge that. But you can’t sue and get your money back.”
Never mind that they just hinted at a member of Kuwait's ruling family is "stupid." But I see that the principle here is the same. The attorney even acknowledges that his client (the defendant) was incompetent, even if his family now has a home in the 'burbs worth nearly half a million. Not a "good" CEO, regardless of his intentions.

questccg
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I agree with you 100%

let-off studios wrote:
To consider that CEO "good" is delusional.

I'm not at all saying I support this behavior... I'm just saying it happens OUT-THERE "all the time". And for the CEOs that do do a "good" job, well I realize how HARD it is to find work in your field. And CEOs who do provide for honest jobs at a reasonable salary... It's tough running your own business (and I mean with employees and all).

Having a shell business which allows you to do side ventures (like a KS or invest in the development of a game) is one thing. But to actually run a company with a million dollar PLUS sales range is a hard thing to do...

It's not easy to find success...

Note #1: Also society is faced with a concern in terms of salaries always going UP. Same goes with CEOs. If the CEO made $100k on his last job, he's obviously going to want MORE income on his NEXT job. And that's how you get to the multiple ventures, shell corporations et al.

Everyone is going to TRY to better themselves. I think I'm probably one of the "stupidest morons" who is willing to accept a salary decrease just to be re-trained in a different technology... I've got about 19 years of specialized consulting experience in which the "well is drying up".

It's hard to match and consider all my experience because it is primarily around one technology. If I could do another stint using other technology for 20 more years well then I would be happy. But I realize that this means a lowering in salary. You just can't expect another firm to pony up a large salary just based on past "experience". No the way I look at it is that it makes me a "better than average" candidate.

The company doing the hiring has LESS RISK because I've consulted before and I've been specialized in development work too. It also means that it would be easier to re-train me than someone who has hardly any experience.

Sure I may cost a bit higher than a "rookie" (or newbie) but you also get the benefit of my years of consulting and believe me ... I've seen all kinds of things! So I understand the world can be a very hard and cold place too...

Note #2: Just to clarify ... I am willing to take a lowering of my salary to learn new and up-and-coming technology to further my career. But at the same time, I need to honest with myself and ask for a bit higher than "starting salary" (considering all my experience). So it's like a mutual compromise. I get an average salary which is lower than my current salary.

But as the "well dries up" ... it's about time to switch to something NEW and do the necessary compromise and be able to move forwards in the next few years considering Montreal has maybe 2-3 customers of my existing tech... My ex-boss is also feeling the pressure too... So I know I'm not the only one in this boat.

let-off studios
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Understanding

questccg wrote:

I'm not at all saying I support this behavior... I'm just saying it happens OUT-THERE "all the time".

[...]It's not easy to find success...

[...]Everyone is going to TRY to better themselves.

The only thing I disagreed to was that the guy who ran that company - into the ground, I might remind you - could not be judged as a good or bad CEO. Regardless of his intentions, capability, competence, etc. he was definitely bad.

As for the rest of your comment, I either agree or acknowledge your opinion, sure.

questccg
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Continuous Billing is another approach (Negative)

let-off studios wrote:
The only thing I disagreed to was that the guy who ran that company - into the ground, I might remind you - could not be judged as a good or bad CEO. Regardless of his intentions, capability, competence, etc. he was definitely bad...

Well then you may think MANY people are BAD. Why? Because regardless of the AMOUNT of sales or business they get... They clock HOURS at a regular pace. Meaning they might get a contract for 3 or 6 months but BILL the company 1 Years worth of consulting... Granted there could be difference in rates like 3 months might be $100/hr and 6 months $75/hr... And the person may be continuously billing $45/hr... But the fact is that the first CREDITOR the business will OWE will be HIMSELF not his supplier(s).

If you get what I mean... Before the business is AFLOAT, the company is already in the RED because it owes $X.00 amount of dollars to the owner or "consultant" (because many people just BILL the company regular hours)...

This is another approach which can be seen as BAD ... But is it really all that BAD??? I mean you have to eat and pay your bills... When you land the next big contract, you can balance off the accounts (so-to-speak).

But this I've heard is well spread way of doing business too... (Continuously billing all the way into the RED waiting for the next billable contract to recoup the monies and balance the accounts).

Again (to repeat myself), I DON'T do this... But I've known people who did and that's why I've refused partnerships because it's like getting married...! You never know how much they are in the RED prior to your arrival. Your investment may simply go to BALANCE the accounts and all your partners get money and you PAID it.

So many things like this... Really is a crazy world!

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