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Can a boardgame work in real life?

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Sweatt
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Some of us have played point and click room escapes before some genius realized, "why don't we build this in the real world?" The results were a new industry being born.

Mega Games took boardgaming to another level with LARP elements and after playing one I think they are really cool.
My question is can anyone think of any boardgames that would transition into real life and actually become a better experience?
Example: Wasteland
Here in Florida we have a game once a year called Wasteland(Fallout theme). It is an Airsoft/LARP hybrid that is played on 50 acres with buildings and forts. Players
use bottlecaps as currency which allows them to trade, hire, gamble in the city, upgrade their weapons, buy drinks, buy health packs etc. What makes it so amazing is
the reality of it. When I make a deal it's not roleplaying, I am actually making a deal based on what I think the value of X caps are. When I plan on betraying someone
there is real tension because the risk is real. If I betray someone and they put a bounty on my head it will have lasting repercussions through the entire game for me.
The alliances and enemies I make matter in this living breathing world.
Problem: Airsoft.
Airsoft is a double-edged sword. It gives players an immediate conflict resolution option if they cannot negotiate their way through something and it works wonderfully.
The issue is the nature of airsoft. It can be a little pricey to get into with $200+ guns plus Goggles, mags, and everything else.
Then you have the issue of airsoft etiquette which takes some time to learn, knowing when you are hit, not overshooting other players etc. The barrier to entry for the average person is just too high.

So can something like Wasteland work without the airsoft? I have been thinking about this for about 2 years now and with only very little progress I figured I would bounce the idea off someone much smarter than myself.
Any input would be greatly appreciated:)

FrankM
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Softer than airsoft

The softer option to airsoft is laser-tag. Most laser-tag arenas are indoors, but I remember training exercises in the Army where we had (presumably more expensive) laser-tag gear that worked outdoors in broad daylight.

If resource management is part of the game, the guns can have a physical cartridge that allows it a certain number of shots. Additional cartridges can thus become quite valuable in-game.

Sweatt
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I have actually used Miles

I have actually used Miles gear before. Real rifles that use blanks but shoot lasers up to 500 yards, pretty awesome stuff.

I am curious if there is a need for combat at all? Pick up and delivery, resource management? The question is what is the added value by doing it in real life outside vs inside the nice cool AC.

Corsaire
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TAG (the assassination game)

TAG (the assassination game) was big when I was in college. Everyone was an assassin and a target. There are scavenger hunt games with various levels of puzzles behind the objectives. Geocaching is an interesting thing (which I only know about because one of my name dopplegangers does it.) And obviously Pokemon is a crossover. Competitive reality shows encapsulate the same thing; I imagine some people organize their own rl version of thse.

Into the real world would be about scale and timing; a turn could last a day and have fifty people playing.

For your example, substitute any short competitive game like rock paper scissors for conflict resolution, or cornhole, or any skill test. You could also use dice as in the Fallout board game and upgrades change your dice or alter your targeting. Combat and stat resolution could also be offloaded to an app. A phone app could replace gun targeting... Maybe an app with an overlay and you have to lineup a crosshair accurately when you snap.

Lots of possibilities.

questccg
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Caravan Pickup-Deliver outdoors type game.

Sweatt wrote:
I am curious if there is a need for combat at all? Pick up and delivery, resource management? The question is what is the added value by doing it in real life outside vs inside the nice cool AC.

Well for one thing, if you are a "merchant" and you want to send your "cargo" to another city "on-the-map" (Pickup-delivery) ... well then you probably need a "caravan" to do it. And given a MAP that is the depiction of the land (known-world)... You "the caravan" could head out and watch out for "thieves" and "raiders" who prey on "caravans"...

This is interesting in a "forest" because there is all kinds of natural "cover" and being stealthy and watching out for "raiders" with binoculars and such could be pretty cool. And then there is finding ways around the "raiders" (is it possible???)

Then there is "diplomacy" ... paying off the "raiders" so that they don't attack or pillage your "caravan". So some money is better than a battle where you might lose your group of "raiders" could be dangerous -- might be easier to "strike a deal" and let the "caravan" continue to its destination...

I think this could make a cool "outdoors" game! :)

questccg
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Combat...

As far as combat is concerned... it could be two (2) simple decks, one for the Caravan and one for the Raiders. Each player draws a card from the opponent's Deck, the rules could vary.

Like say the "caravan" chooses to "sneak by the raiders": they would need to draw a card of lesser or equal value to the one drawn by the "raiders".

If there is a battle, three (3) cards must be drawn and played in whatever order each player wants. The winner of 2 out of 3 "waves" is the victor of the battle.

Anyways you don't need real or "air" weapons. All you might need is a couple decks of cards and some simple rules.

Again just an idea... Cheers!

Sweatt
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Really great stuff thanks! I

Really great stuff thanks!

I had an idea of transporting "goods" around the property and markets that that may influence where you go, and as you gained more resources you could increase the number of "goods" you could carry. I could implement a Sheriff of Nottingham element where thieves could choose to rob someone but it could end up hurting them.

Side note: I have 10acres of woods to work with that I own. I have built small villages before for airsoft games, really helps immerse players. That's where I would build this thing.

questccg
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Just because this got me thinking...

You could START by using a "standard" deck of cards with Face Cards removed. And one side uses 10 hearts (Caravan) and one side uses 10 spades (Raiders). And then invent some simple rules (as per my previous post).

BUT the *INTERESTING* part is as you develop your idea further... It's 10 cards per side... You can use custom decks with special bonuses and abilities. For example one card gives you the option to "Draw again and keep the higher card" and that card could have a value of "6"... Or other such abilities ...

You could go FULLY "custom" decks (kinda micro decks) and have one for "Raiders", another for "Thieves", one for "Caravans", and one for "Merchants".

And you can ADD "bonus" cards to "raise the stakes" too. So by default each deck is 10 cards (1-10) and then you could add up to three (3) cards to tilt the favor in your hands... Using the extra cards make your battle easier. But they can be only used ONCE (for example)... And you must "give them" to your opponent as "extra points". So even "Raiders" could WIN points they can use to score themselves too...

Could be really FUN!!! And the idea is to keep it simple. Ten (10) cards micro decks ... could eventually become custom decks with abilities too. And lastly add BONUS cards that a "caravan" may PURCHASE (real $$$) to be used as protection (or improving odds for a caravan trip). "Raiders" could collect those cards as points (real $$$ too) ...

And you could have a "market" to buy "protection" for like $5 bucks. And when the raiders collect those points, they earn like $1 bucks per extra card (so up to $3). You as the owner would make $2 bucks profit. And you really don't do much but OFFER the experience. The cards are "recycled" multiple times too... So it's GREEN too (environmentally-friendly too).

Just some other ideas... Cheers!

Note: Supplies could be "bought" from your home merchant for a real monetary value (like $20 bucks for 10 resource cards). Each card is then worth $1 buck for the "Raiders" and "Thieves". Whatever is stolen or pillaged during battles. So "Raiders" could potentially make $10 bucks from each "caravan"...

My only issue/problem is that "Caravans" would earn Victory Points (VPs) that go towards the Merchant's Guild Top Scoring "Caravans"... And not real money. But it's because "Caravans" are there for the "experience" and to PLAY the game. Obviously an entry fee is required -- but you could eventually have extras like "insurance cards", etc.

"Raiders" and "Thieves" are there to both PLAY and some earn real money during the game. So it would be their incentive to do a "good job" (reason to play and be tough is because they can make some small money doing it...)

So instead of having TO PAY for "staff" ("Raiders" and "Thieves"), players actually pay for them given that they can steal "resources" from "Caravans"...

Something cool like that!

Update: Deck-Construction would be possible by BUYING "Singles" from your home. So instead of just having a "2 Hearts", you can purchase a "2 Hearts with the ABILITY of 'Draw another card and add the two cards together'". And so you could specialize your deck with cards of more power.

That could cost like $5 bucks for that card. And it would "replace" the usual "2 Hearts" which has NO ABILITY... Instead of PAYING $5 bucks... maybe it's a REWARD for completing a certain numbers of VPs!!! Keeps players engaged in playing the game longer, playing harder too (to win) ... because you get BONUSES!!! Definitely cool!

I would definitely go for something like this: Open World, Micro Decks, Deck-Construction, Deck-Customization, Resource Cards, etc.

Update #2: Resource Card Quality. When you pay your $20 bucks for your "resource deck" (10 cards). Why I LIKE "Physical cards" is this: Card Quality. So when you SELL the cards for points, if a card is DAMAGED, it is worth LESS. Now if all cards are in MINT condition then players score the maximum points. But if a card is bent or such, then you only earn a certain amount of points for it... Something along those lines.

FrankM
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Miles to go before I cheat

The advantage of Miles gear is that it's objective and makes cheating pretty difficult (you can become "unhittable" by removing the battery, but when you replace it the vest always powers on into an "I've been killed" state that can only be reset by a referee).

Two players literally meeting in the middle of the woods relies on the honor system, and these people are likely to be strangers to one another.

It's still possible to do microdecks and such, it just has to be done in an app. The app can run on cheap Android tablets in tough cases, with location tracking locked on for player safety. A battle can commence by scanning the opposing player's QR code, fiddling with the NFC sensor... or (if you can calibrate location services with enough WiFi stations) the tablets themselves initiate the combat.

At that point the microdeck cards might as well be virtual. A nice side-effect is that all battles are captured on the server for continuous feedback on the game.

questccg
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I wanted to add...

If you go the route of "physical" cards, it is something that the players can take home as a memory of their visit. Moreover, it's something they can re-use and pickup from where "they" left-off.

So if it costs like $10 bucks for each player to get his/her own "deck" and you can improve upon your deck as you play the game further... You can also as a group decide how much cargo you are going to transport. Could be more than $20 bucks worth of "cargo".

Maybe as a four (4) player group, they decide to transport $40 bucks worth of supplies... To score even more Victory Points (VPs) than a lesser amount.

Just some more things to think about!

questccg
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Some more ideas...

Picture the simplicity of a "Single" Deck to control four (4) distinct factions:

  • Hearts: The Heroes that accompany a "caravan"

  • Diamonds: The Merchants that deal and make trades

  • Spades: The Raiders who try to steal resources from "caravaners"

  • Clubs: The Thieves that work alone and wander the land for loot

I'm trying to keep it "simple" -- but at the same time be interesting. A player who has a "Deck" (10 cards) worthwhile of resources is considered to be a "Caravaner"... His goal is to transport resources from a starting point to a finishing point (from one merchant to another).

"Caravaners" may be protected by "Heroes" who have a Heart Deck (from 1 to 10) no face cards. "Heroes" are used to protect "Caravaners" from being looted. For $10 bucks they get a Deck of ten (10) cards (Hearts Deck). All players start off with the default deck ... without any abilities.

Each "Merchant" also starts with a Diamond Deck (from 1 to 10) and is used during negotiations and bartering resources. They are found in markets around the land.

Next we have "Raiders" whose purpose is to raid "Caravaners" by using a Spade Deck (from 1 to 10). Their goal is to "acquire" resources by negotiations (for the safe right of passage) or by looting "Caravaners" when they don't have sufficient or failed protection (See "Heroes" above).

Lastly we have "Thieves" who work alone. They travel the world in search of pockets to pick... They use the Club Deck (from 1 to 10). Similar to raiders except they work alone... This gives purpose to players who don't have a party of four (4) players and want to search for loot to steal.

bottercot
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That "wasteland" game you

That "wasteland" game you were talking about, Sweatt, sounds EPIC. I am wondering though. What do you mean "Health Packs"? Is there some sort of Health system?
There are some things I am wondering:
-What sets the value of Caps? And does the system allow for bartering?

-Do you have to buy (with Caps) your own food, or is food and hygiene and stuff provided?

-Are there shops you buy stuff from, or is it all just finding people around and trading? Actual established shops could lead to interesting "robberies".

Sweatt
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Some really great ideas guys,

Some really great ideas guys, thank you so much for your insight.

I have thought about using cards for testing to see if something like this would work. I also had a thought that it could be app-driven with gps so that players would get random triggers while roaming the lands. They could go to village A. and buy a resource then walk to Village B. to sell it for a profit, then back to the market to buy a "sword" that can be used when a random raider trigger on their next journey. They could go to the pub and get special missions for more money sorta like Merchants and Marauders.

I guess the main question that I want to answer one day is will people even care? I have about 13 acres to work with. Let's say I use 3 or so for parking and bathrooms leaving 10 to build this world. Imagine huts and bridges, and castles or a post-apocalyptic world that players can touch with their hands and explore. But will they care? After 30min of exploring the "newness" will wear off and there needs to be a game left. The reason for me that Wasteland works so well is because it is so organic, I go back every year because there is a story that formed naturally.

bottercot,
When you get shot you lay down and "bleed out" for 2 or so min. If an ally gets to you they can heal you with a bandage that they must buy from a merchant. An enemy can rob you (take 1 handful of your caps) or they can heal you and sell you to slavers or turn you in if there is a bounty on your head.

The Gamemaster sets the price on weapon upgrades and other items you can buy from merchants but everything else evolves organically by the players. If you or I met in the woods I may offer you 20 caps to help me kill someone, or offer you half the caps we get from robbing a base. Now once the mission is complete we may end up killing each other or building a stronger bond and doing more missions together, everything is 100% real, relationships, lies, and stress and it's amazing. Now there are roleplayers and I enjoy their addition to the game but I just play me, except last year I was a super mutant that just killed everyone and never spoke to any humans.

You get a meal ticket for going to the game, hot dogs etc. We eat outside the game area although you could take food onto the field and eat in your base or the woods like an animal:)

Yes, there is usually at least one stationary merchant and one traveling merchant. The traveling one gives better deals and pays more for relics that you find on the field, but you have to haggle with them to get the best deals, they are characters, not players.

Here is the players pack: http://mindgame-productions.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Wasteland-9-P...

questccg
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Where are you located???

Sweatt wrote:
...But will they care? After 30min of exploring the "newness" will wear off and there needs to be a game left...

That's the thing. You NEED to create a kind of "Grind" that pays off. Each Caravaner has got to be worth like $20 bucks. Insurance for Caravans via "extra" Heroic-cards need to be purchased for something inexpensive like $5 bucks. Playing with four (4) players means two (2) Caravaners and two (2) Heroes. So it's $40 bucks for the initial decks and $10 bucks for insurance of two (2) Heroes. (Again this is just to illustrate a point...)

If you make $4 on insurance and "Raiders" get $6 ... you have a "payment" system ... albeit taking away some of your income -- but having third party involvement without requiring "payment" for their services. Next you could have $1 buck per resource card obtained. Ten (10) resource card per Caravaner means you stand to make $10 bucks. The other $10 goes to the other Merchant or Raiders or split... The point is, you're not having to explicitly PAY third party people to PLAY. It has to be part of the GRIND.

Now about the GRIND. You need to have sufficient reason to play over and over... And that is usually a REWARD system. Once a Caravaner gets a certain amount of Victory Points (VPs) for successfully picking-up and delivering merchandise, the party needs to EARN a "tangible reward". And in my "vision" that would be an "upgrade card" to your card of ten (10) cards. Like a Hero earns a "2 Hearts + Ability = Draw again and add both cards"...

(Again just an example)

I don't think you need to BUILD all kinds of "stuff". What you need is a system that will make players come back! (LOL) What I mean is that there are "tangible rewards" to playing the game. And players get to keep their "decks" with whatever extra cards they earn along the way.

A "live Deck-Construction" mechanic could be something interesting.

Other ideas: make certain areas "inaccessible" EACH DAY. So off-limits to various areas such that players need to visit at least a couple weekends to get a complete feel for the game and the land.

With a kind of MODULARITY you could divide the space into different areas that are/aren't accessible at all times.

Q: Where are you located btw?

Corsaire
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Sweatt wrote:I guess the main

Sweatt wrote:
I guess the main question that I want to answer one day is will people even care? I have about 13 acres to work with. Let's say I use 3 or so for parking and bathrooms leaving 10 to build this world. Imagine huts and bridges, and castles or a post-apocalyptic world that players can touch with their hands and explore. But will they care? After 30min of exploring the "newness" will wear off and there needs to be a game left. The reason for me that Wasteland works so well is because it is so organic, I go back every year because there is a story that formed naturally.
animal:)

I've found myself to be a bit of a futurist with seeing trends. Which is what I was trying to sketch in my earlier reply. Yes, it can be a thing, and it is a type of thing that is getting hotter and hotter. Live adventure, adult "posse activities", corporate retreats and team building are growing. Escape rooms are off the charts in Europe and lots of Canada and expanding into US.

I think it is a question of scale of your commitment. Is it something you want to run a hundred times a year or once a year. For mass and appeal it needs to have baked in social and learning moments; regroup and compare notes type of stuff if it is going run more than an hour a session. Video game realism and isolationism is creating the void to encompass more than just us whack-a-mole geek types.

Sweatt
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So glad I posted here, again

So glad I posted here, again thank you all for your time.

questccg,
I agree with you players need something tangible that keeps them invested. I like the idea of cards/resources of some type that they can build on and take with them. Do you think I may run into an issue of veteran dominance? Where players that play more are so powerful that the entry for new players to make a difference in this world is just too high?

I actually thought about players being able to buy territories and name them or maybe huts/bases where they can store something under lock and key so they have a key to take home.

I am in South Florida, Okeechobee (at the top of the big lake) so our winters are amazing and sunny but our summers are brutal especially on people from anywhere north of Georga which is another strike against the outdoor idea:(

Corsaire,
You are speaking my language! Escape rooms are what open my eyes and in my opinion. It brought in millions that would never have picked up a controller or pair of dice in their life. For some reason, people feel like it's socially acceptable to be a detective for 60min or a prisoner trying to escape but not play D&D? Strangely enough, I have designed a couple of escape rooms and actually designed one that is running down in the Miami area.

Sweatt
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"I think it is a question of

"I think it is a question of scale of your commitment. Is it something you want to run a hundred times a year or once a year. "

Great question. I wish I had an answer for you. Ideally, I would love to run it a hundred times a year but I don't know if that is realistic. I guess my thinking is put the experience and game first then see how it fits into my life.

I work from home as a graphic designer so I have a lot of flexibility and basically have weekends off. If I could replace some or all of my income I would be thrilled but one step at a time I suppose.

My original thought was to build a community around the game with a website and maybe video podcast on the current status of the game and world and make it more of a "club" kinda thing rather than trying to hustle new people every weekend. I don't mind new people coming in of course but I am not interested in the Escape Room model.

I may have mentioned it before but we used to play airsoft on this field and I built a village and other bases, we had a closed group that came nearly every weekend, we loved it, of course it was free. Not sure if some model like that could work but along the lines we are discussing and not as often?

questccg
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Add some limitations

Sweatt wrote:
...Do you think I may run into an issue of veteran dominance? Where players that play more are so powerful that the entry for new players to make a difference in this world is just too high?

Hmm... That's a very good question. But here's a small "nugget" of advice.

If you allow players to "grind" their way up and earn "extra/bonus" cards for their decks... You can impose a LIMIT to the number of upgrade cards that may be played in each situation (mini duel).

I keep going to my "2 Hearts + Ability = Pick another card and add the two together". This could be one (1) card and you would be allow up to two more (for a total of 3 cards)... Veterans may have ALL TEN (10) upgrade cards ... but again by using a limitation, you force only about 30% to have an ability/bonus. Which ones are the choice of the players...

This to me this sounds "reasonable".

Ten (10) cards and maximum three (3) with Abilities.

Like say you are trying to "sneak" past raiders, you draw a "10 Hearts" ... BAD (because you would want the lower score for sneaking...) But then you realize it too has an "ability" = Pick another card and subtract that one from this one". 10 - ? = Your score. The lower, the better for sneaking.

Abilities can be "situational" too. Like if you were trying to get the HIGHEST score, you wouldn't add that "Ability 10 Hearts", because you would rather score a 10 point value... But when sneaking it's the opposite, lowest score wins.

Expanding of culture: naturally the game may evolve. Like the wasteland game... I'm sure it started with fewer groups than currently. BUT if you make your game about "mini-games" then give the players the chance to "grind" and improve their decks... You have something players can do.

Your game could have "Guilds" and maybe a forum section (phpBB is very simple to use on a website...), that can evolve... And then "Quests" for various ITEMS (printed on a card): "Sir Regal has had his cape stolen, please recover it, speak to the raiders - you might find the thief..." And you as a Hero "keep" the Quest card until you solve it. Each player could be on the maximum of one (1) Quest.

It can all evolve... over time. Add things in "layers". Start with a "core" game that has a "grind" and offer players the opportunity to "level up". You can use a 30% rule to limit how powerful players are... They may have all 10 Bonus Ability cards for their "class" but are limited to using only three (3) of them at any given time.

Something along those lines... Cheers!

Note: It could be stipulated that it is "dangerous" to travel "alone" ... unless you are a "thief" (Diamond suit). People wandering alone are a sign of trouble and "Caravaners" and "Heroes" should be on the lookout for these criminal people.

Like you said, if a "thief" robs you, you try to go about to figure out his "name" and then you place a "Bounty" on him... To try to bring him to justice. There you go another layer (Bounties)... You can add that at a later time to make the game more subtle!

Corsaire
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Sweatt wrote:"I think it is a

Sweatt wrote:
"I think it is a question of scale of your commitment. Is it something you want to run a hundred times a year or once a year. "

Great question. I wish I had an answer for you. Ideally, I would love to run it a hundred times a year but I don't know if that is realistic. I guess my thinking is put the experience and game first then see how it fits into my life.

I work from home as a graphic designer so I have a lot of flexibility and basically have weekends off. If I could replace some or all of my income I would be thrilled but one step at a time I suppose.

My original thought was to build a community around the game with a website and maybe video podcast on the current status of the game and world and make it more of a "club" kinda thing rather than trying to hustle new people every weekend. I don't mind new people coming in of course but I am not interested in the Escape Room model.

I may have mentioned it before but we used to play airsoft on this field and I built a village and other bases, we had a closed group that came nearly every weekend, we loved it, of course it was free. Not sure if some model like that could work but along the lines we are discussing and not as often?

Yea, I spent a couple months last spring designing an escape room, looking at real estate, prop prototyping, spreadsheeting costs and profits. But in the soul searching process, I realized I like creating new things, designing, developing not being a janitor, handy man, greeter, runner, for the same thing 500+ times a year. Running an escape room might've netted two or three times as much as I make as a senior IT developer, but was not a lifestyle I in honesty wanted (painful thing becuase escape room design is like where board game design was thirty years ago, most rooms I've tried are highly flawed from a game designer perspextive.)

Seems like LARP organizations would have a bunch of details on how they do their thing, which is ultimately what I think you are leaning towards with the bonus fixed location. Haunted houses are another business model that is similar, but LARPing covers the gaming stuff.

Sweatt
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Corsaire, You and I must be

Corsaire,
You and I must be kindred spirits. I had a partner ready to put in the money we needed and we had decided on a location in St. Augustine, FL (huge tourism) and at the last minute, I came to the same exact realization you did.

You know I love Wasteland but I am not sure that feeling can be recreated without airsoft and I'm ok with that if that's the way it has to be.

I just want to create a game that I myself would love to play. It could be a huge social deduction game in a little city with spies or some sort of pickup and delivery game where you can negotiate with other players to improve your position. It could be a game based on some sort of virus where you and a few buddies control your own small campsite that you must have a certain amount of resources per turn to survive and to do so you must risk trading with other camps which could infect your camp which would, in turn, make your camp contagious and you had to now try and infect other camps.

I am at step one here. Guess I will just keep daydreaming until something clicks.

X3M
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One idea for airsoft

I played some variation games with airsoft. But one was particular fun.

It takes rouglhy only an hour to half a day. Depending on the size of the terrain and number of players.

Zombies.

Players go into the terrain in couples.
Zombies are allowed to shoot. While players are not.
When shot, you are a zombie and put on your yellow headband.
The last one to survive wins.
But also the best zombie wins (making the most zombies)

Zombies are visible by a yellow band around the head. The first doesn't have it until the second is shot. And that kill doesn't count to the score either. So suddenly 2 players pop up as zombie.
The good part about this game is that everyone can keep playing till the end.

I don't know how they decided on the first zombie. I think someone got pointed by the admin.

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