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Dungeon Brawl launches on Kickstarter!

Well, don't I have the shakes right now. I think I've done everything I could possibly do aside from throw money at everyone. The e-mails are going out and I'm already tired. I'm just worried I haven't created enough hype. I don't want a repeat of Tile Pile. How else am I going to advertise that I'm live and that this is a product you would want?

If anyone is interested in checking it out:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/tableflipgames/dungeon-brawl-a-cust...

Comments

Good luck (again!) :) Did you

Good luck (again!) :)

Did you build a mailing list or anything ahead of time? Not sure how else to advertise other than, well, advertising :)

Jay103 wrote:Good luck

Jay103 wrote:
Good luck (again!) :)

Did you build a mailing list or anything ahead of time? Not sure how else to advertise other than, well, advertising :)

I did, although very late in the game. I did get a good number of e-mails in that time, luckily. No one teaches you this stuff. I'm expecting to hear "did you do this?" and I will say, "No. No one told me this." It's pretty much like making lasagna for the first time, only the internet is down and then your mom arrives after you finish, only to nag you on what you did wrong. At least, that's what it FEELS like. haha

Evil ColSanders wrote:Jay103

Evil ColSanders wrote:
Jay103 wrote:
Good luck (again!) :)

Did you build a mailing list or anything ahead of time? Not sure how else to advertise other than, well, advertising :)

I did, although very late in the game. I did get a good number of e-mails in that time, luckily. No one teaches you this stuff. I'm expecting to hear "did you do this?" and I will say, "No. No one told me this." It's pretty much like making lasagna for the first time, only the internet is down and then your mom arrives after you finish, only to nag you on what you did wrong. At least, that's what it FEELS like. haha

Oh man .. there are two great teachers on all of this stuff in James Mathe (Minion Games) and Jamey Stegmaier (Stonemaier Games). It's a LOT of reading but well worth it.

http://www.jamesmathe.com/

https://stonemaiergames.com/kickstarter/

Best of luck on your campaign! I've backed for a $1 so all of my followers will get a notification of that and maybe take a look.

Backed!

Best of success, Ramon! :)

Looking forward to seeing the playmat...!

Awesome! Most appreciated you

Awesome! Most appreciated you guys! Hopefully I'll have good news as the burning tire keeps rolling.

11 Days into it and I've done

11 Days into it and I've done better than Tile Pile did, but I'm stagnant. There's about a pledge a day and I've exhausted all my resources. This doesn't look too good for ol' Dungeon Brawl. Advertising is just something I'm not good at, nor am I rich enough that I can pay someone to do all the ad work for me. I'm in a rut. It really makes me want to close up shop.

I know how you feel about

I know how you feel about adverts. I'm working on that now, and it's tough. I basically have to make up banners and stuff based on the assets I already have (logo, character art, taglines, etc), and then figure out the right place for them...

I've heard good things about facebook ads (from here, mostly), but I don't know if you want to throw money at this problem right now.

Some basics

Evil ColSanders wrote:
...There's about a pledge a day and I've exhausted all my resources. This doesn't look too good for ol' Dungeon Brawl...

You'll want to build on your initial momentum. What this means is that in your first 48 hours, you'll want 50% of your goal reached... And then yeah, every campaign (or most) seem to slowly hedge along for about 25% during the better part of 20 days and then a slow rise again in the last 72 to 48 hours for that remaining 25% + more.

If you don't give up on your game AND you can make it using what is offered by a POD like "The Game Crafter" you can get a real LOW Goal of maybe $3k to $5k... because you're only committing to 100 backers. And you would of course use Kickstarter jointly with all manufacturing and fulfillment using a Bulk Order (BOF)... That what I like about POD, low quantities = low goal.

It's not something you did or did not do... You NEED to have a "following". What this means is maybe 5,000 Twitter Followers who read your tweets because you put out information interesting to them aside from only your game. Or have 1,000 Facebook Friends and then Boost a post to them and their Friends/Family... You can do this on Facebook. Sure it'll probably cost $100 or so bucks... But the word gets out.

Social Goals are also key. By getting people to "follow" the campaign, you encourage them to find more backers. Without this, it's more hard.

Don't be too discourage, re-collect yourself, find another FORMAT. I really like POD because it's lean and efficient. Maybe more costly, but if you can get it to fit the format, well you can jointly KS and you'd have already a POOL of starting backers... To re-contact and say: "Look we've lowered our goal, revised the product format and here is Dungeon Brawl v2.0..."

I'm not saying this is the ONLY option.

I'm just trying to encourage you in not losing hope! There are still other options available to you... You've just got to see if you can re-work things to fit "another" format.

And personally I STARTED "Tradewars" on "The Game Crafter". I sold 34 copies of my game in a Crowd Sale... About $800 USD of sales. Had I given up then, I'd only would have made a minor effort. But I decided to see if I could pitch the game to other Publishers... and sure enough I had found one.

There is no shame in not obtaining your goal the first time around. There are more options than you probably even realize. So don't discount an option unless you fully explore it and its ramifications.

Cheers!

Note: In TGC terms, they call it a KS "Contract". And basically it's an agreement to manufacture and fulfill Bulk Orders post a KS Campaign. You can set as low as a goal you want... But savings on volume break at 100 units. So normally you would KS with a goal of 100x a POD cost price (+some markup for profit).

On TGC you sort of work "backwards". First you get a COST for your game once you've figured out all the component and then NEXT you add a margin of profit ABOVE and beyond that COST amount. Obviously there are economies of scale (and volume) which means there are price breaks up until 100 units (games sets). And that gives you a reward amount and a funding goal to be reached ... which is USUALLY very low... As I explained above.

Here's my link to my Crowd Sale (Just to show you the evidence first hand): https://www.thegamecrafter.com/crowdsale/tradewars-homeworld:-early-access

In your case you wouldn't want to do a Crowd Sale, you'd want a KS "contract"... Once you get the components figured out. Like I said $800 bucks is what I made on TGC (because I was not ready to go the KS route). Nor (at that time) had I known that you could do a Joint KS with TGC...

Update: The ONE (1) thing that could have HELPED with your KS Campaign is a "Play-thru" VIDEO. Showing HOW to play the game. I know you have explained with text and images... But a video which shows how the game is played could maybe have helped too! Just a future suggestion, if you plan to re-focus and retry...

And yeah I failed too!

My first goal was 100+ Crowd Sales to get the maximum discount. I reach about 33% of my goal. The plus thing with POD is that at least I MADE $800 bucks. There was no minimum, each sale counted.

With all the new additions, you can even have a rubber mat printed to TGC specs which means you may need to refine your "own" mat... But it is now possible to sell a "rubberized" one (if that is important to you too).

The only component that I see as needing "adjustment" is the "Game Board". TGC offers an 5" x 10" board. Combine that with a Large Retail Box and you've got yourself a combination that could work. Standies with custom punch-outs is also possible, cards/decks are not a problem...

The only "compromise" I see is the board. You may need to modify the size so that it fits into a 5" x 10" board... The rest is not a problem. The Rubber mat is 10" x 16" which is bigger and could maybe be better size (IDK)... You're the designer!

And ballpark the price, let's $50 x 100 backers = $5k goal. That's 33% of your current goal ($14k). I personally think you could make it POD. And then KS again with a lower goal, add a play-thru video, some social goals (some bonus/extra cards) and you'd have a smashing success!

Best of luck(?!) with your game!

Don’t sweat it.

Decided to stop lurking, ‘cause I think you are being hard on yourself.

First of all — there’s still time! You never know...

But more importantly, looking at your kickstarter history, this is a massive improvement already. You are making strides. Raising 1.5k isn’t a small feat, even though we are bombarded with the mega success stories. That’s a good chunk of people standing behind you. I’ll be pledging a small amount tomorrow to show you some support.

I’ve never done a KS for board games, but I used indiegogo to fund my business a few years ago. I remember being deeply depressed when my campaign didn’t pan out initially — but the reality is (unless you’ve spent a ton of cash on ads), you are growing a brand and an image even when the funding isn’t where it needs to be. Find a way to engage with that audience. You have a list of backers — try to get them to opt in for future KS attempts, or follow a game design blog, or grow with you as a developer. Or use a print on demand to fulfill a handful of games at cost for the people who really want it. These people are saying they will buy in to you and your idea, give them more content to connect with you in the future even if it doesn’t work out.

They’ll be there for you when it does.

@quest has a bunch of specific suggestions that might be more helpful than mine, but I still thought it was worth saying.

5k twitter followers, for a

5k twitter followers, for a complete unknown?

Stegmaier only has 10k.

Seems a little high :)

I know ... I'm just explaining how "others" do it...

Jay103 wrote:
5k twitter followers, for a complete unknown?

Stegmaier only has 10k.

Seems a little high :)

Well my Publisher has 8k twitter followers... So I know how HE "gets the word out"... Facebook is less 750 friends.

I'm just explaining what "works". Just because Jamey has 10k doesn't mean that other game-industry people have other connections to more backers. What helped "TradeWorlds" was 1,500 previous backers and 8k twitter followers. I can't say Facebook was also not influential at 750 friends... but it pales in comparison with Twitter.

I have 275 friends on Facebook (for "TradeWorlds"). It took a lot of work to get those people and I'm still not certain about any "conversion" rates. My doubt is they probably just like to know "what is going on"...

About the BOARD!

AdMagic has CUSTOM "Board" sizes... Check out Print & Play Games:

https://www.printplaygames.com/product/folding-board

You could do a Two (2) Piece Fold Board... There are various sizes ... maybe you can get whatever works best like 8.5" x 14" (seems to be close to the size of your board). It's $5.75 and they would assemble 2x 8.5" x 7" boards.

There is a VOLUME discount: 100 boards = 18%, 250 boards: 22% (and you can check out the other information I sent you in a PM).

Cheers!

Confession: I'm working on a

Confession: I'm working on a dungeon crawl game with miniatures too, so I've been following your progress the past few months very closely. I want you to do well, so it gives me hope with my game.

An unsuccessful Kickstarter can help you build a crowd. If you are up for it, I'd recommend waiting 6 months and giving it another shot. There are too many Kickstarter projects to mention that failed on the first try, and succeeded on the second or third attempt. This is a good, detailed look at one of them: https://stonemaiergames.com/kickstarter-lesson-230-is-your-crowd-big-eno...

You've done all this work so far. You've got the game, you've playtested it, you've figured out manufacturing, you've put together promotional materials, etc, etc. Trying to Kickstart it again in 6 months shouldn't be much additional effort, all things considered.

Also, you might have been a little unlucky in timing to have Arena: The Contest begin a Kickstarter a few days before your own: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/dragorigames/arena-the-contest-tabl...

If you plan another one later, this will give you time to go through this huge list of things you can do to build a crowd before your next Kickstarter: https://tompetgames.wordpress.com/2018/03/05/what-40-board-game-creators...

Good luck!

Paul Ott wrote: An

Paul Ott wrote:

An unsuccessful Kickstarter can help you build a crowd. If you are up for it, I'd recommend waiting 6 months and giving it another shot. There are too many Kickstarter projects to mention that failed on the first try, and succeeded on the second or third attempt.

Agreed. it took me to my 3rd attempt (and 2 years from 1st to 3rd) to get there. I took the lessons learned from the first two tries and managed to make it (I would say) a resounding success on attempt 3.

Quote:

Also, you might have been a little unlucky in timing to have Arena: The Contest begin a Kickstarter a few days before your own: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/dragorigames/arena-the-contest-tabl...

^ THIS however is something I hear a LOT of .. I don't agree that launching at or near the launch of another big campaign is an inherently bad thing, and as a matter of fact, it's becoming almost impossible not to these days.

"A rising tide lifts all ships" is a great quote for this; Those big campaigns bring people to Kickstarter. Those people get recommendations served to them from Kickstarter. It will bring eyes to your game as well.

"But imagine if those big campaigns weren't running at the same time" .. Sure, but would there be as many people there to see your campaign too?

I get that there's only so much money to go around but at the same time launching in a vacuum is impossible. You have to swim with the big fish these days and that means having a campaign that is on-point, professional and draws eyes in to see what's there. You have to have a value proposition that hooks people. You HAVE to have enough people ready to back in the first 48 hours to hit that crucial 50% mark for momentum (some will tell you you need to have enough to 100% fund on day one .. that takes time to build that kind of trust I think).

I won't sugar coat it. With only 10%-ish funded and just over 2 weeks to go, I would, quite frankly, cancel the campaign with a good, heartfelt and thoughtful update thanking those who backed and that you will be relaunching "soon". Give them a reason to keep checking back.

Build more audience. Refine the page even more. Launch again in the fall.

If you can drop the price and/or goal, even better. Your price feels a bit high to me for what your offering and needing 350+/- backers to just hit funding seems a little high as well.

The things you REALLY have going for you are the great reviews from some heavy hitters, great artwork and a fun intro video (though it's a little on the long side .. anything over 2 minutes usually sees less than 50% full views. Anything over 1 minute and many people start to lose interest).

You're probably right. I keep

You're probably right. I keep reading that you basically have to have 1/2 of the funding already raised before you launch. So that would mean it is a crowd of buyers you have cultivated and who are interested in your game. A similar launch of another game shouldn't change it too much, although it could impact a small percent. People love to bandwagon...

I Will Never Grow Up Gaming

I Will Never Grow Up Gaming wrote:
(some will tell you you need to have enough to 100% fund on day one.

That makes literally no sense :)

Jay103 wrote:I Will Never

Jay103 wrote:
I Will Never Grow Up Gaming wrote:
(some will tell you you need to have enough to 100% fund on day one.

That makes literally no sense :)

I agree to an extent, but try telling that to some of the "big names" on Kickstarter that bring in 500% funding on day one! ;)

That said, 100% funded on day 1 will generate additional interest (people like to back a winner and if everyone else is backing, it must be good, right?).

I Will Never Grow Up Gaming

I Will Never Grow Up Gaming wrote:
Jay103 wrote:
I Will Never Grow Up Gaming wrote:
(some will tell you you need to have enough to 100% fund on day one.

That makes literally no sense :)

I agree to an extent, but try telling that to some of the "big names" on Kickstarter that bring in 500% funding on day one! ;)

That said, 100% funded on day 1 will generate additional interest (people like to back a winner and if everyone else is backing, it must be good, right?).


Well, it depends on your definition of "need", I guess.

To have a successful kickstarter, meaning to reach your goal, obviously you don't need to hit your goal on day 1. That's where the "33-50%" number comes from. However, if you want to have 500% of your goal as your goal, sure, then reaching 100% on day 1 is awesome.

My 2 cents

It's great that the community here is encouraging you to keep going with your game. You are getting some really great advice that will hopefully help you to succeed in the future.

My 2 cents, coming from a visual art background, is to take the time between now and a possible relaunch to really make the art as strong as possible. From the KS page it looks like you reuse the same few character illustrations for the box art, and the different cards. It's a bit repetitive. I know more art is a stretch goal but maybe putting the money in up front to get more art would draw a bigger crowd.
Many games live and die on their art and design alone.

I also agree with having a gameplay video. For me it's really important to actually see a playthrough before I decide on backing a game. A plus side to having that is it might help get backers who may not love the art style. Strong gameplay might get people to back a game with art they may not love. For example I started playing Hero Realms recently. I don't love the art style, but the game is really fun to play so I overlook that. Art is obviously subjective but there are definitely styles that appeal to a wider audience. With the low turnout, maybe the current art style isn't drawing in backers.

Conversely, having exceptional art might draw in backers regardless of how the game plays. I just received my copy of Century Golem Edition yesterday, a game I preorderd solely on the art I saw. I didn't even know how the game played. Fortunately it is really fun to play.

Make sure you show strong art or strong gameplay. Ideally both.

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