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A not so legacy legacy game?

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jonathanflike
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Hello All. I was trying to find the name for a game that is like a legacy where your actions do affect later games, but do not result in the destruction of components or physical changes to the game. Is there a name for a type of game where you finish it, keep some components from a prior game, and use them for a new game? I know RPGs do it, but if the game isn't an RPG, what would you call it?

mindspike
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I call them "Campaign Games".

When I think of RPG I think of D&D and similar pencil and paper only games. I put games like Conan, Hero Quest, and Gorkamorka into a category I call "campaign games". These are games that carry consequences between sessions and possibly change the way the game plays but don't destroy components. I haven't played it, but I understand Gloomhaven works this way.

I have heard RPGs rules described as "this is out of bounds, but anything else is allowed;" and board game rules described as "this is allowed, and everything else is out of bounds."

let-off studios
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Persistent World Game

Maybe the term you're seeking is persistent world game? Maybe "persistent campaign world"?

I think the Shadowrun: Crossfire co-op deckbuilder can be something to consider as a branching-off point for your game model. The phrase "persistent world" isn't used, but the notion that you can use leveled-up characters for missions played at a later date describes it well enough, in my opinion.

Also, this game has a reputation for being challenging, and for being a bit of a brain-burner due to the combinations required to defeat such overwhelming odds. Along with that, the reliance on direct damage to defeat challenges can impart a feeling of simplistic grinding. If the design you're working on can find a way to address these concerns, a persistent world genre is ripe for expansion.

ElKobold
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It’s a campaign game. Legacy

It’s a campaign game. Legacy assumes irreversible changes.

jonathanflike
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Thank you!

Thank you, I knew it had to have a straight-forward name. I wanted to make sure I wasn't calling the game something that people wouldn't understand what it was.

pelle
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They are campaign games. From

They are campaign games. From a design pov they are absolutely 100% the same as a legacy game. The legacy part about destroying components is a marketing gimmick, but does not change the mechanics. Just means you have to buy a new game to replay instead of printing a new character sheet or whatever campaigns need to reset.

questccg
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Hmm... Not sure about that

Just to be a little more "precise"... Legacy games can allow for various components to be "permanently" REMOVED from the game. Like a card can be torn to shreds or burnt to dust. "Semi-permanent" stickers may be a-fixed to the board changing the way the game plays FOREVER.

It's not about only "re-setting" the game... It permanently changes how the game will be played for future turns and future games. Characters may disappear (destroying colors for example: Red player dies and is permanently removed from the game. His pawn should be forever destroyed)...

Campaign Games might offer various "scenarios" that add replayability ... but the game is never permanently affected. Meaning just because you've played Scenarios 1-2-3 ... doesn't mean you CAN'T play Scenario 1 again with a different outcome too.

So in truth, there is a very big difference between both. Because while Campaign Games allow you to REPLAY, Legacy games only leave you with the END RESULT which may or may not be "playable"...

FrankM
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Quest has it

Quest summarized it well. In the abstract, you can accomplish exactly the same play-through using Campaign or Legacy design... the difference is that at the end, the bits of a Campaign game go back into the box the way they originally came out,* whereas the bits of a Legacy game have been permanently altered.

That rule-sticker mechanic is a bit easier to implement in a Legacy format, but you can accomplish it in a nondestructive Campaign format using a ring binder or cards in sleeves or magnets or similar.

You can still have consumable components in a Campaign game (e.g., disposable character sheets) without changing its essential character. The publisher might even be willing to sell "refills," but more likely people will download the form (whether provided by you or a dedicated fan) and print their own.

* Not counting any initial assembly.

pelle
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What you describe are exactly

What you describe are exactly the things that campaign games have done since long before there was legacy games, only that they have used pencil, or pens on photocopied sheets, to track information, instead of destroying anything. You restart the campaign by just starting from a new sheet. Just make sure all the information to save about the game state is on the sheet (e.g. a checkbox saying "red player has been destroyed"). Ambush! (and Battle Hymn) back in the 80's also did the hidden information until you encounter it bit, even if there were no sealed envelopes so it was easier to cheat if you wanted to, but mechanically it was the same.

Fabled Lands even had check-boxes spread out throughout the books that you ticked off. But you were told to use pencil, so you could go through your books and reset them easily using an eraser when you wanted to start from a clean configuration. If legacy games had been a thing back in 1997 they would probably have told you to use stickers instead. But mechanically the only difference, again, is that pencil makes it much easier to reset. Also clever people posted a PDF online that you could print that had all the checkboxes on a single sheet instead so you did not even have to use pencil in the books themselves.

So from a design point of view, definitely there is nothing at all about a legacy game that is not in a campaign game or vice versa. Leave the distinction to marketing and do not allow yourself to be distracted by irrelevant details.

pelle
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Of course if someone can give

Of course if someone can give one example of one mechanic that you could do in a legacy game but not a campaign game I am happy to change my mind. Until then I will keep insisting that the two are functionally equivalents.

FrankM
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Legacy only

pelle wrote:
Of course if someone can give one example of one mechanic that you could do in a legacy game but not a campaign game I am happy to change my mind. Until then I will keep insisting that the two are functionally equivalents.

There's the catharsis of literally crushing the red player pawn under your heel... but that's about it :)

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