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Toories game using character building and dexterity

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Chad Russell
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sample player area
Toories game components

Toories is a cooperative 2 player game idea I have been toying with for a long time and have been finally bringing to life in the last ten months or so. A lot of the game revolves around the cards to increase character traits but the main tasks involve tossing toories, (yarn poms) into the game box. The game box serves as a different spin on using dice in a game and is refereed to as the "Fate Crate." Instead of rolling a D3, D6, or D9 the box can be used as an F3, F6, or F9,(F meaning Fate).

Before reaching these main events, characters use the cards to do training tasks or favors. Some of these are timed which use metal time top like piece which is spun by the players gaming partner. The card actions often involve the help of the other player to keep both players engaged as much as possible.

Without going into more detail, I was just wondering if these ideas have been used much or if it sounds like something to start playtesting at a local café or shop? A picture of the hand made version is here and any art is in progress. I have a few more pictures of set up samples and such.
Thank you for your time and interest.

questccg
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When I saw the "Fate Crate"...

My mistake, the "Cells" of the "Fate Crate" are already configurable with "Square-sized" cards. You can remove cards or add cards on top of the existing ones... Correct?

Chad Russell
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Cards in the Crate

This is a great question, thank you. The game box is 8x8 inches square and five inches deep. The cards I have made for testing are 3x5 and fit a cell or two standing up. I should have been clear that the cards are only stored in the box when not being played, they are on the table and player mats during the game.
The only items that go in the Fate Crate cells during the game are the yarn poms. Each of the nine cells are pre printed with a 1 to a 9 pip on the inside of the crate.
I hope this helps answer your question, I working on a way to present the idea more clearly. thank you again.

questccg
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So I'm not not 100% sure about your response

Are you saying that there are ONLY nine (9) numbers on the bottom of the "Fate Crate" and that is it? Sort of like "hard-coded"??? Because I think it would be more "configurable" and interesting if "Players" could MODIFY the "Fate Crate" with square cards in the positions in the crate...

Like a "3" becomes a "5" or a "9" becomes a "1", etc.

Would definitely add "replayability" and increase the strategy too.

IDK what your plans are... but please do reply... I'd like to better understand your approach to the "Fate Crate" and making it easier or harder to land on certain points.

Cheers!

Chad Russell
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plans for crate

Sorry for the delayed reply. Reconfiguring the values of the crate, or dice was the main mechanic of the game design I created last year. I believe It would fit that game, but was not the mechanics I was going for in Toories. Since the main goal of an rpg,for example, is to roll high numbers, I don't see why they would want to make values lower. It could, however be something forced to make the game more difficult.

The replayability in the game is based on the card quests and character building. The Crate is in the game to make certain parts of the game, such as battle with a beast, feel a bit different. Most of the cards have nothing to do with the Crate but rather have you set collecting, tossing poms into certain numbers of the Crate, using the other dexterity components such a "package" to deliver, etc. Since some cards require the player to toss poms into a sequence of numbers, it is important that each value is available.

Even though the figures in the Crate are "Hard coded" so to speak, they are not always the same value, or in the same position. Certain card in the game will make the crate rotate clockwise. Players can not view the Crate on there turn, so they must keep track of the position of the values. Many dexterity games rely on being able to hit a certain mark consistently, so moving them makes it a bit more challenging.
At the start of the game, the players will have low trait values, making the 1,2, and 3 worth only 1. The 4,5,and 6 is worth 2. The are 7,8,9 worth 3. When a Trait reaches level 6, players may use the 1-6 values but 7,8, and 9 count as a miss.

Some cards and creatures make the player close their eyes, prop the crate lid in front like a wall, or even use the lid as a ramp to roll the poms in. This is some examples that keep the game varied.

I do like the idea of changing the Crate values with square cards, but not sure if this is the right one for it. Maybe the Crate can be used in multible game designs. I hope not all of this is a rambled, jumbled mess. I am working to make a clearer rule book or video to present the game idea. It should get more playtesting this weekend to get feedback. Thank you again for the ideas. Also, I look forward to more of your "Metro" CCG!

questccg
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Chad Russell wrote:...At the

Chad Russell wrote:
...At the start of the game, the players will have low trait values, making the 1,2, and 3 worth only 1. The 4,5,and 6 is worth 2. The are 7,8,9 worth 3. When a Trait reaches level 6, players may use the 1-6 values but 7,8, and 9 count as a miss.

So here's my suggestion which you MAY or MAY NOT like. By default, when you start the Fate Crate has THREE (3) Cards (out of 9): all of them "1". So this means that the crate only has three number "1" and the six (6) other spots are BLANK.

What you could INTRODUCE are "effects" to improve the Crate's ODDS. Like "Add +1" to the Fate Crate. This would mean instead of three (3) "1"s there would be four (4) "1"s on this specific turn (for that player ONLY).

Or another type of BONUS to the Crate, is "Replace one +1 by +2"... So the odds are the same, but the "points" earned varies...

To me (IMHO) having 1-2-3 = 1 is redundant. Having 1-1-1 is self-evident. Unless there are some other circumstances (which at the moment, I don't know of)... It would be more intuitive to repeat the values and allow additions/subtractions (Bonuses/Penalties) to the Fate Crate.

Personally "rotating" the Fate Crate ... doesn't seem very... hmm... Interesting (that's the best word I could come up with). It seems a little bit infantile as a mechanic (To be real honest)... I think you might profit better from add/removing cards to the crate and just maintain a single direction... You can even HIDE the "bonus/penalty" from the player currently required a dexterity throw. What I mean to say, if the opponent adds a "penalty", the player throwing doesn't need to know in which position it was placed... That's starting to sound more "dexterious" and more "FATE" driven...

Chad Russell wrote:
Also, I look forward to more of your "Metro" CCG!

Thanks, I'm working on it. The business side is locked SOLID. The game... is what I need to work on... I often determine if my projects are "feasible" and if NOT, I shelve them. I want to work on projects that I can REALIZE... I've been trying this Micro game for several tries... Never quite with a design that I really like...

Right now the ideas surrounding the game are "interesting". But it's a matter of making a prototype now that I got my blank cards and dry-ink marker to see where all that leads...

I talk more about the Metro CCG in this thread response... If you want to follow my progression a little:

https://www.bgdf.com/forum/general/welcome-bgdf/hi-folks-0#comment-98932

Cheers!

questccg
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Ahh ... re-read your reply

Looks like you have something to do with "throwing" a "Set" of numbers... Can you explain when this happens? Maybe the Fate Crate could be configurable depending how "often" this happens...

It might be possible if this occurs in specific instances that are NOT too frequent...

IDK — You're the only person who can answer this...

I'm not quite sure about the 1,2 or 3 values either. Could there be a "5"?

I really LIKE the "idea" about the "Fate Crate" ... but in it's present version, it doesn't feel very "FATE-full". Being able to change odds positive or negative would generally feel MORE like a real "Fate Crate"...

Maybe if we can get more about HOW it is used... That can determine if you are forced to "hard-code" the values...

Cheers! BTW I really think the "concept" is unique... Is the word "Toories" of your own INVENTION?! I could not find any references to it on Google... So my instinct that Yarn Poms exist ... but "Toories" don't. Maybe if you could clarify that too...

Like I said I find it "different" from what we usually see on BGDF...

questccg
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About sequences...

I've been thinking about "sequences" ... and I could imagine this scenario:

The "Fate Crate" could be configured with THREE (3) "7", "8" and "9". And the objective is to get "7-8-9" but not "in order" just the END-Result.

That's why I'm asking about this... because there are other possibilities...

So anyhow, it's not like I'm thinking a lot about your design. It's just that the "Fate Crate" to me is very original and interesting having this KIND of dexterity element.

Okay... I'll wait until you reply to this thread and wait for sharing my thoughts further.

Cheers!

Jay103
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Chad Russell wrote: Without

Chad Russell wrote:
Without going into more detail, I was just wondering if these ideas have been used much or if it sounds like something to start playtesting at a local café or shop?

I've never heard of anything like this... Could definitely be fun. It's also the sort of game where people would stop to watch.

Chad Russell
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Toories and sequences

Toories is a Scottish word used for "Boobles" or "Yarn poms" on the top of hats, I guess it is not used much any more. They were used in different colors to identify soldier rank and used by soldier in submarines so men would not hurt their heads on the frames of the small doorways. This is all mentioned in the rule book. It the game the term refers to the poms themselves and the creatures you play as.

To answer some of the other questions, I would say about 20% of the cards ask the player to toss a sequence of 3 numbers. They usually do not have to be in the exact order listed.

As for the crate, I mentioned it was designed to act like dice. This is why I didn't make it configurable as dice, in my opinion, are not very configurable and based on luck.

I do understand how the square cards would make the crate more interesting so I will work on creating the cards for them.
This would mean redesigning all the cards to incorporate the square cards such as when to use them and such. I am guessing the cards would be placed and stacked in the crate cells during play, them dumped out after game? I think trying to get the cards out of a cell during the game would be too fiddly.

I will see what can be done with these ideas, it will take time for sure. Thank you for the thoughts!

*EDIT
I think I may have a way to make the square "Fate" cards but keep the other cards as they are. I would have to change the rules a bit. On the cards that said, "Twist of Fate" on them, originally to make players rotate the Fate Crate, they would instead trigger the square "Fate" card deck. I think I will give my brain a rest for the remainder of the weekend.

Chad Russell
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I've never heard of anything like this...

Jay103 wrote:
I've never heard of anything like this... Could definitely be fun. It's also the sort of game where people would stop to watch.

I hope to come up with an enjoyable design, thank you Jay!

questccg
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A couple of IDEAS

If you place a layer of "plastic" on the bottom of the crate, you could have like a "false bottom" and you could INSERT "Sheets" (all 9 values) in the bottom of the crate.

This could be a "Quick" way to ADD "pre-configured" "Fate" settings. Like the example of "sequences" where you have 3 "7", "8", and "9".

And you could "insert" those "pre-configured" sheets for RAPID configuration...

Next ABOVE the "plastic", you could place one (1) card into one position and limit the amount of cards to 1... So making an insertion of a "specially configured" sheet quick to add/configure.

Keeping it to one card per position makes it "quick" to remove the 9 cards and insert the pre-configured settings...

I don't know if I have explained myself very well... But I think I've explained my "false bottom" sufficiently to make the "Fate Crate" much easier to configure with "sheets" and customization via "cards" (on top of the false bottom).

Let me know if you have questions... I realize you are working with a prototype... But sometimes the components GROW beyond what we have as a design... Let me know if you like this idea for RAPID "configuration".

Cheers (20% of the time is 1:5 times)... Having the false bottom is a VERY quick way of ENSURING the configuration is correct and if you only have to remove 9 cards and add 1 sheet, it might be a SIMPLE, yet effective way of handling these 1:5 times.

Cheers!

Chad Russell
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"So here's my suggestion

"So here's my suggestion which you MAY or MAY NOT like. By default, when you start the Fate Crate has THREE (3) Cards (out of 9): all of them "1". So this means that the crate only has three number "1" and the six (6) other spots are BLANK."

I feel this would defeat the purpose of the Trait tracking player boards. Each player starts with 6 traits they may upgrade with trait buttons,(the plastic buttons in the photo). For each trait that reaches 3 buttons high, they may toss a "D3". For each trait that reaches 6 buttons high, they may toss a "D6" Finally, and most difficult, is 9 buttons for a "D9". Buttons are gained by completing a card and placed on the trait listed on the card.

Maybe this clarifies some of what the cards do and how they work with the Fate Crate?

Chad Russell
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"false bottom" and sheets

I just saw your ideas about the sheets and replacing the bottom, very interesting idea! I like where this is going, I will have to include you in the design credits. In my original prototype, the # shaped insert to form the cells was thick an it could be removed.
I will start working sample tests for these ideas soon. Thank you again for your insight, it could definitely grow into a bigger design.

questccg
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Credit not needed...

I just think your design is "cool". It's very different and that means it probably stands a chance ... just for standing out "in a crowd".

You don't need to adopt any of my suggestions... They're just ideas I've gotten when "purely thinking about the Fate Crate".

It's your design, I'm just providing you with some ideas. Specifically about the "Fate Crate" because I think ... that's the component which is the most unique.

When you mentioned requiring "Sets", that's when I thought about the "false bottom". Because inserting a sheet with all the "correct" values is much less "error prone" and ensures the configuration step is very QUICK but yet at the same time ACCURATE too.

Any way the way I'm seeing (just the crate — You've got the whole design to ensure everything work together... LOL) if you had "pre-configured" sheets you insert into the "bottom" of the crate, well then you could apply "penalties" with "BLANK square cards" covering up certain values.

IDK thematically what this could be... But the idea is making odds of success harder... Granted this might make the sequence too hard to get, you could get something like: "If you throw a BLANK, that toorie may be thrown another time..." Like a 2nd chance... Things like that.

Cheers!

questccg
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A bonus instead of a penalty

questccg wrote:
...well then you could apply "penalties" with "BLANK square cards" covering up certain values.

IDK thematically what this could be... But the idea is making odds of success harder... Granted this might make the sequence too hard to get, you could get something like: "If you throw a BLANK, that toorie may be thrown another time..." Like a 2nd chance... Things like that...

Another option could be a "bonus" like: "Earn +1 Toorie to be used on one single bonus throw". What I am trying to say, is that in the "Fate Crate" one of the positions could have this "Bonus" which gives you a Toorie of a special color which you can THROW as a bonus throw whenever you feel like it. And when you throw that bonus, you remove the "Bonus card" from that position and now you are back to a default configuration (of some sort based on the sheet in the bottom of your crate).

I'm sure you could think of all kinds of possibilities really.

Chad Russell
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Penalties and bonus

There a currently 4 Toories in the game of blue, yellow, black, and red/white so the color idea would work.

I should have mentioned before of point rewards included on the cards.
If a player successfully completes a card, they earn a trait button as well as points listed on the card. These points may be spent at the "Store". The "Store" provides 2 types of bonuses which may be purchased, some are during normal play and others only during "Boss battles". Some of these include one time extra tosses and such. For this reason, I believe penalty cards for the crate would work well since players can get help already from the "Store".

Lots of possibilities, back to the drawing board!

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Just for the record, I had

Just for the record, I had never ever heard "toories" before, so, depending on where you're marketing this, you may want to tweak the names in the description/title/rules.

Chad Russell
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Jay103 wrote:Just for the

Jay103 wrote:
Just for the record, I had never ever heard "toories" before, so, depending on where you're marketing this, you may want to tweak the names in the description/title/rules.

Yes, I am working on that too. I touched on that on post #9 here about the background of the word and it is in the initial rules. I will definitely try to clarify it somehow on the game box and description. Thank you for the insight, much appreciated.

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Chad Russell wrote:Jay103

Chad Russell wrote:
Jay103 wrote:
Just for the record, I had never ever heard "toories" before, so, depending on where you're marketing this, you may want to tweak the names in the description/title/rules.

Yes, I am working on that too. I touched on that on post #9 here about the background of the word and it is in the initial rules. I will definitely try to clarify it somehow on the game box and description. Thank you for the insight, much appreciated.


Yes, I saw that.. thanks :) Frankly, if you were selling this, you could just call it out explicitly, like have a big friendly arrow pointing to the pompom in the photo saying "This is a Toorie"

Chad Russell
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Yes, I saw that..

Quote:
Yes, I saw that.. thanks :) Frankly, if you were selling this, you could just call it out explicitly, like have a big friendly arrow pointing to the pompom in the photo saying "This is a Toorie"

That is not a bad idea :) I had thought of Having the title something like,"Toories… The Pom Tossing Game" or "Toories … the Pom Adventure RPG."
I kind of like just the single word and a picture as you mentioned.

I would like to submit one of my designs for publishing, this game may be a good start. I also created square cards I am calling "Crate Cards" for now as suggested here. I found a method to easily move them in and out of the crate for customization. The feedback here has been tremendous, I didn't see that coming.

questccg
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I like the name too...

"Fate Crate"... Some kind of "mysterious" component that allows you to use your dexterity to figure out what shall happen next...

And using it as a solution for "dice rolling" was cool too.

I just felt like the "Fate Crate" deserved more than just "hard-coded" numbers... Because that felt very "limiting". Like I said in another thread... sharing ideas is good because it usually brings the designer more thoughts about what he can accomplish with his game.

Nobody is pushing things like: "You have to do it this way..." More like an open gesture: "You could do it this way..." And that might lead to more ideas which could solidify the design or make it more interesting, etc.

Cheers!

Chad Russell
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crate cards

There are now 2 sets of crate cards to customize the crate, one set adds bonuses and penalties and the other changes values. The crate cells have been modified to have convex bottoms. This makes it simpler and quick to flip or remove cards from the cells.
I have enjoyed trying the ideas presented here. I will continue to get playtests and feedback to move closer to a solid design. Updates will continue here periodically.

questccg
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Glad some of the ideas were useful

Convex bottoms sound very smart too! Flipping and easier access most definitely. Are you using a rounded surface or more of a pyramid in design?

Either way, both will work and give you better access to the "crate cards".

And because you are throwing Yarn Poms and not plastic balls, there is a lot less risk of damaging the Fate Crate with the dexterity element.

Let us know how things advance. This is a very interesting design!

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