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Dice combat card game

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jedite1000
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I have an idea for a card game, the theme is classes like fantasy classes

I will explain what i would like to do before asking about the dice mechanic

its a 2 player game

each player has a deck of 20-50 cards depending on how many i can make at that stage

So i drew up a quick template, the design is not set yet

so the top left has the class icon, each class will be different in some way

the big circle will have the character image

the red dots will be the cards hp, each class will have a different total hp

the right side is the abilities which you will use the dice to determine the attack (will explain later) i will also explain the auto attack later

the very bottom will be a passive ability which activates when the card is played on the field

So gameplay goes like this

Both players draw 5 cards from their deck whoever plays a card first cant attack

A player plays down 1 class card and ends turn

next player plays a class card down and begins the attack
you start off with only 2 dice, the active player will target the enemy card and rolls both dice, if you rolled a number that is on the card you use the ability, however, if you do not get a number then the auto attack kicks in and you will still do some dmg depending on the dmg your auto attack does.

During your roll phase, your opponent can use their dice (2) in attempt to block the attack, the 3rd ability will usually be the defence ability and you cant use it if it is your turn to attack.

If your opponent misses the attack and their auto kicks in and you roll to defend and you get the number you want, you can still block the auto attack with the ability

(hopefully, this eases the rng element of dice rolling by having auto attacks)

now when both players had their first turn and it is your turn to attack again, then you bring in a new die making your roll count (3)

you then can play another class even if you have a class already on the field.

you now have 2 cards on the field (some cards might have a theme that will work together or will work against each other such as if you have like a priest and warlock on your field, that will be bad and it will have a negative effect on you)

There are 2 ways i want to approach having multiple cards on your field, on my turn do i choose my attack card first and roll the dice to determine its abilities or do i roll the dice first and then choose a card i want to attack with and match the abilities with the dice result) If i am going with the 2nd approach i will have no need for auto attacks since you will be rolling first before you choose your card

Then again i can make it with roll dice choose only 1 of your cards to use the ability that is on one of the dice and the rest can then use auto attacks to attack..just an idea

The maximum number of cards you can have on the field will be 4 and each turn that goes by you will add a die to your pool up to a total of 4 dice

So this is my idea of what i have so far, its not too far in development yet its just brainstorming at this point

wob
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hello. i would opt for the he

hello.
i would opt for the he roll then choose a card option. (ignoring the auto-attack for the moment) this seems more tactical (im not sure it is but it feels like it) and less "guess and hope"- although the other option could be included for an ai in solo games or an a-symmetric game between different abilities of player.
an auto attack could still be used as a special ability option (no roll for a less powerfull attack or roll for a bigger attack but a chance of a misfire)

jedite1000
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Thnx kind of agree too but if

Thnx kind of agree too but if a player has 4 cards on the field, should the dice roll only work for one card? Example if I have 2 cards that has a dice number of 5 would you choose both cards to use ability or only 1 card and 1 ability per turn

let-off studios
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Diversify Cards & Maximize Results

jedite1000 wrote:
Thnx kind of agree too but if a player has 4 cards on the field, should the dice roll only work for one card? Example if I have 2 cards that has a dice number of 5 would you choose both cards to use ability or only 1 card and 1 ability per turn
Depending on your design, it could work either way: both or the player must choose one. Personally I think it would be more interesting if the player would throw the dice, then had to choose between all applicable results.

It's almost like the flip-side of Machi Koro, in which players receive bonuses or affect their opponents based on structures they've purchased. When players throw dice, the result determines which of their building(s) is activated. To maximize returns, players can both purchase multiples of most buildings, and/or purchase a wide variety of buildings so that regardless of the result of the throw, they'll receive some kind of benefit.

If you adopt this system along with your limitation of a four-card limit in their tableau, it seems to me that players would be tempted to diversify the types of cards they add to the field, thus maximizing the probability of at least one of the cards is activated with each throw.

For more information about Machi Koro have a look here:
https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/143884/machi-koro

wob
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just off the top of my head i

just off the top of my head i would say if you have more than 1 card on the field that matches your roll you can use it
i imagine this would give the player dilemma of having many of 1 card- for a multiple attack, or many different cards that are more likely to give an attack each turn.
you could then customise the decks to reflect this eg. an insect tribe that has lots of small drones-( little attack but you can add more to the field.)
you could give some a "swarm" attack that is somthing like "if this card attacks (small attack) all copies of this card attack" or
machines that connect to each other
a "chain" that says "if this card attacks (small attack) you may attempt [insert another card and ability]" give a misfire penalty if you dont roll the second attack.
mercs. get bonus attacks if they are unique on the field (the deck has many copies of each merc but they lose power for each copy you have on the field.
i have gone a little off subject there but you get the point. a system like yours (basic combat, many mini decks of different tribes) can be flexible enough to give each tribe differnt rules (as long as they all follow the basic model of combat) how much you want them to differ is up to you but the more different they are the harder the game is to design.

jedite1000
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Thnx I suppose limiting it to

Thnx I suppose limiting it to 1 card might slow the game a bit, it can go either way, though would the opponent be able to keep up with a barrage of special attacks from multiple cards at once? That’s if I allow it so the attacking player chooses multiple cards to attack at once.

I could add very strong cards in the game it’s like a risk reward thing

This card is so strong that it can kill all cards on the opponents field at once but the catch is, it has only 1 dice result. Also the draw back of using it even if its attack fails or not, it goes on cool down and can’t attack or defend for 2 turns or something and another factor is you can only play the card if you have no cards on your field and you can’t play any cards if it’s on the field

let-off studios
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Fragile Bomb

jedite1000 wrote:
I could add very strong cards in the game it’s like a risk reward thing

This card is so strong that it can kill all cards on the opponents field at once but the catch is, it has only 1 dice result...

What is the problem you're trying to solve with this solution?

It seems to me that a player who decides to go with this choice will either end up with a lot of "dead turns" or will toss out the card as an option because it is so limited. That doesn't seem very useful or fun to me, personally. In fact, it appears to magnify the issues you seem to be having with depending on randomness.

jedite1000
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Yeah was a bad idea, wasn't a

Yeah was a bad idea, wasn't a problem i was trying to solve though, just threw in another idea... wasn't good

wob
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i like your bohemouth. maybe

i like your bohemouth. maybe simplify it a bit
but the idea of an all or nothing beast is appealing (at least on occasion) it could have its own special deck of support cards that alter the attack, but once its gone you lose. i could see it as a titan (in the classical sence) that only a whole tribe can take out.

jedite1000
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wob wrote:i like your

wob wrote:
i like your bohemouth. maybe simplify it a bit
but the idea of an all or nothing beast is appealing (at least on occasion) it could have its own special deck of support cards that alter the attack, but once its gone you lose. i could see it as a titan (in the classical sence) that only a whole tribe can take out.

yeah i kind of like that too, ill simplify it a bit and maybe not have much of a weakness as i suggested earlier

wob
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it would be a nice touch (but

it would be a nice touch (but a pain to produce) if the main card was huge (2 or 4 times bigger) i wouldnt add anything gameplay wise but it would be fun.
you could also make it stupidly over powered and give the option of a co-op or semi co-op eg tribes work together to kill the dragon then must fight over the corpse (how much do you commit to the battle?, how much do you hold back to slay the other tribe) but that would probably be a whole new game (or expansion)

jedite1000
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wob wrote:it would be a nice

wob wrote:
it would be a nice touch (but a pain to produce) if the main card was huge (2 or 4 times bigger) i wouldnt add anything gameplay wise but it would be fun.
you could also make it stupidly over powered and give the option of a co-op or semi co-op eg tribes work together to kill the dragon then must fight over the corpse (how much do you commit to the battle?, how much do you hold back to slay the other tribe) but that would probably be a whole new game (or expansion)

pretty cool late-term, right now im probably just going to work with a few class types and see how it goes there, there are not many class fantasy out there so ill have to search for a lot of class types

there will be the generic warrior, hunter, priest, rogue, etc

my art style will probably be pretty simplistic, i was thinking chibi style or cube like heads on a small body, kind of like those funko pop vinyls

wob
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oh i totally agree, dont go

oh i totally agree, dont go adding any extras until you have the basics. i wouldn't worry about your art at the moment either (clip art and google images for now)
making your decks more species/race themed might give you more options for classes (or variations of themes)
human -like creatures (elves, dwarves etc) use the the classes you mentioned but other species could use other classes (though maybe with the same basic atributes)
for instance a race of insects would have forragers, fighters, grubs and nursery workers, hive queen. if you want to keep it traditional look at DnD and warhammer for your tropes they pretty much nailed them and they hqve been around so long they are deep in the publics psychy

jedite1000
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I was thinking about the dice

I was thinking about the dice roll abilities. How about this to make it less bad rolls

Some cards for 1 ability will have 2 dice results so let’s say for a mage fire ball does 2 dmg, the ability has a dice number of 2 and 5 pips. If you get either one of those results you can use fireball however if you roll and the results are both 2 and 5 then the ability dmg doubles to 4

jedite1000
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With the dice mechanic what

With the dice mechanic what would happen if I use symbols instead of pips would that lower the rng aspect? I don’t want players to keep rolling dud rolls throughout the game

Or would having 4 cards and 4 dice be enough for having decent dice results, if all the cards have different results. Depending on what players want on their field

I could make powerful abilities ties to 1 result so if you have 4 cards and all have abilities with 6 pip only, then they need to be really lucky to roll a 6

Example i have 4 cards and they only have abilities with a 6 pip requirement. And my opponent has 4 cards with different pip requirements. Who would have better results?

let-off studios
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Diversity = Higher Probability

jedite1000 wrote:
Example i have 4 cards and they only have abilities with a 6 pip requirement. And my opponent has 4 cards with different pip requirements. Who would have better results?
It is likely the person with a diverse assortment of numbers will activate more cards more often.

You have a 1 in 6 chance in rolling any one number on a six-sided die. That does not change based on the number of cards you have that need that result.

The player who relies on just the result of 6 will have little to to until a 6 is rolled, and then they'll be busy going through all the motions for all those cards. But there's no guarantee that a 6 result will come about.

If a player wants to take a lot of actions, then they'll want to increase the spread of possible outcomes so that regardless of the result of a throw, there will be something they can do. They will be "doing less" than the player who has all 6-activated cards, but they'll be acting more often.

Think of it like this:

  • 4 cards with just 6 needed: 1 in 6 chance for all to trigger
  • 4 cards with 1, 2, 3, and 4 needed: 4 in 6 chance of one of them to trigger

I mentioned something akin to this above, with the reference to Machi Koro. I also discussed this very thing in a post I made a few weeks ago, referencing an article that explains the "Gambler's Fallacy." I suggest you have a look at it here:
https://www.bgdf.com/forum/game-creation/mechanics/gamblers-fallacy-prob...

jedite1000
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Just curious, in any kind of

Just curious, in any kind of dice game, what are the odds of rolling. I know it’s all random but are you more likely to roll a 6 or a 1 and the other numbers. It does seem 6 is harder, but I think it depends how the player rolls

let-off studios
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GF Strikes Again

jedite1000 wrote:
Just curious, in any kind of dice game, what are the odds of rolling. I know it’s all random but are you more likely to roll a 6 or a 1 and the other numbers. It does seem 6 is harder, but I think it depends how the player rolls
There is equal chance of you rolling any one number on a single, normal die. You are no more likely to roll a 1 versus a 6, and vice versa. Do not fall prey to the "Gambler's Fallacy."

Please read the article I cited above. It explains a LOT (such as the difference between probability and statistics) and in easy-to-understand language.

Additionally, if you want the math to back up this claim, the AnyDice website can be helpful:

www.anydice.com

In their example, if you change the "output 3d6" to "output 1d6" or even "output 1d20" and then press "Calculate," you'll see that the probability is equal for all results.

wob
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[the following paragraph is

[the following paragraph is very pedantic. sorry]
everything let-off said is true. at least for casino dice as all the sides are perfectly square (they are so well made they always give a 1 in 6 chance, and they get retried before they can warp). non casino dice (especially wood, or rounded cornered ones) aren't as the sides are not perfectly square. this doesn't matter for most people (they dont know for the most part) but it is an interesting phenomenon. and can effect a game if your dice are cheap and vital to the game
another (much more relevant fact) is that randomness decreases with more rolls (either more rolls of 1 die or more dice rolled). the dicetower network has a podcast called gametek that explains the math of game elements such as dice.

wob
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to answer your questions

to answer your questions about symbols instead of numbers it makes no difference to the math.
pro: more thematic, looks less "generic"
con: costs more, can be harder to add (a number is a number but can i add swords and shields?)

to answer your concerns about "4 cards with the same pips vs 4 cards with different pips" i think this depends on how it is implemented and how you get your deck. if the deck is random and everything else is equal it would be foolish to opt for the "4 cards same pips" option as its much less likely to hit. but if the decks can be built or drafted (so i can choose my strategy) or if those 4 cards give a huge bonus for rolling the less likely result i may choose to "go big" and risk it.
there are many games that have the "low risk low reward vs high risk high reward" system

jedite1000
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Had a little read, good

Had a little read, good stuff

anyway i cut up pieces of paper and wrote down a few dice results, i didnt worry about the effects or anything just the damage output, and i tested a few rolls and through the testing phase i determined how i want the dice battle mechanic to be

some classes will have more dice abilities while some will only have 1-2 abilities

I have went with some abilities will require more dice results so, a fireball on my mage requires 1 dice, so a 1 pip which does 2 dmg and the mages other ability requires 1 pip and 2 pip, that ability does 4 dmg

So the more stronger classes will require more dice.

so next i want to test the speed of the game

i am conflicted on which mechanic to use

So if i have 4 cards on my field each with different dice results and i have 4 dice, i roll and the results at random 2, 2, 5, 6. i went with roll first then choose card to attack that is fine but i wonder it should be only 1 card to attack then end turn or if multiple cards have the same results i can attack with all the ones that has the result.. these 2 different mechanics will alter the game speed

also if im going with multiple cards to attack, should i have it once you use dice on 1 card you cant use it on other cards for the rest of your turn, sort of like spending gold or something (dice is gold) or have it if once card can attack using 5 pip and 6 pip, i can still attack with another card that use 5 pip and 6 pip

---------------------------------------------------------------
Ok been playing with myself a few times and i think it is best to have a spending system

I roll and the results as followed

4, 5, 6, 1
so my paladin can use 4 pip and my warrior can use a 4 and 6 pip
i cant attack with both so i spend my 4 and 6 pip and use it on my warrior

i have a 5 and 1 left so i can use those on my druid and warlock, though once a card has attacked you cant attack with it again till next turn

i might also add a bank system, so if i have my beast of a card on the field that requires like 4 dice to use just 1 ability. example my super beast requires a 1, 2, 2 ,6 to use. i roll and i get a 1, 2, 5, 6, i just missed out on 1 die so what i can do is bank the 1, 2, 6 dice and i will be able to use those dice in future turns, so my next turn i can only able to roll 1 die as the other 3 are banked.

It could have some strategy, do i take a chance using my super beast or do i think it is too risky?.

do you think i should add 1 more die to make 5, give players more options?

i also dont have a win condition yet
---------------------------------------------------
hmm i think 5 dice is too much, or player 1 (me) has been extremely lucky and has ko'ed player 2 (also me) cards so fast that player 2 only ever has 1 card on the field due to the killing streak of player 1

wob
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hi. so far so good. it all

hi. so far so good. it all (seems to) work well.
have you considered "support" cards (either items or characters) they maybe dont have their own attack but can manipulate dice rolls/ ability requirements or the size of your dice pool/ lets you bank rolls. or certain characters using different dice (both sizes, d20s etc, or different pip counts, more 6s some with 0)
the victory conditions should be simple. i would say any damage your character does above the opposition character defence does damage to the player. deal x damage to win.

jedite1000
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I’ve been thinking of support

I’ve been thinking of support cards I could add them in later. Was thinking minions too such as hunters and warlocks. When you play a hunter search a beast card In your deck and play it next to the hunter giving extra benefits

jedite1000
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I’ve been thinking of a a

I’ve been thinking of a a point system instead of an invisible lifepoint for players

Ok each class has a rarity system.. not that kind of rarity system but a rare system on how valuable that class is while on the field

Classes divided as

Common
Uncommon
Rare
Legendary

Once you kill a class you get a point for that defeated class depending on rarity such as common are worth 2 points so on and so forth

So would you risk playing a high level class and try and protect said class from being killed or is it worth getting killed so you have room to play bigger classes
----------------------------------------------------------

created some test card for tabletop simulator and i came up with a good idea

lets say you have 4 classes already on the field, you cannot play any more class until one dies right? but what about if you can call a card back from the field to your hand but it requires a cost

so the total dice you can have is 4, depending on the card you want to return, it requires you to use up a die for your turn

so for example, the card on the field has a retreat cost of 1 die, so remove 1 die from your dice pool and return the card back to your hand, so for this turn only you can only use 3 dice, but after your turn has ended you get the die back

some stronger cards will require more dice (max 4) to retreat. its risky but yeah.

I also changed the subject heading as the subject has changed and i am happy with using dice as a mechanic

I also might change some dice combos on some cards as ive been rolling less of those, but that is whats testing is for

jedite1000
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Anyone with TTS, testing is

Anyone with TTS, testing is available in the workshop but please note only the dice roll mechanic and combat is available for testing

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1537615758

jedite1000
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I add the rules later

Rough draft of the first testing phase of my game

--------------------------------------------------------
Class battle unofficial title

Wip rules (the rules are only for what is available now for testing, future gameplay elements will be added in the future)
There are only 7 classes available for testing on TTS more will be added in the future
What will be added in the future
More classes
abilities for the classes and passives
Right now the roll mechanic is only available for testing

Gameplay
You start with 2 dice out of 4 to begin with
Players decide who goes first (the first player cannot do anything other than playing 1 card and must end turn immediately)
Both players draw 5 cards
play 1 card on your field (max number of cards you can have on the field is 4)
pick up 2 dice and roll them
Match the roll with the result on the card, if an ability is a match then you can attack
(there is a defence mechanic for the opponent but it is not in the game yet so your attack will always go through for now)
The opponent deducts life from their targeted card, for example, if your attack does 2 damage and the opponent has 4 life then they reduce the life by 2.
You can use whatever combination you have in your dice result but you can only use it once so for example, if you have 2 cards that have an ability with the dice roll of 3 pip and another one of your cards with a 3 pip and you have only rolled 1 3 pip then you have to choose which card will attack. once you use that die, you put it aside until the next turn.
After you and your opponent had a turn each and it goes back to you, you can then add another die into your dice pool, your opponent will do the same during your turn.
Each turn you add a die to your dice pool up to the cap of 4 dice.
After your roll phase, you are free to bank a die result and save it for a card on the field that matches the result on the card however you will be rolling less next turn. If you change your mind you can add the bank die back to your dice pool before you roll for that turn.
For this test phase, the win condition is to 5 points so if you defeat 5 cards you win.

jedite1000
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My next step is adding

My next step is adding effects to the game, the cards passive are not in the game yet, i just want to test out how the effects on the cards work out

posted the image on the front page

jedite1000
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phase 2 of my game has been

phase 2 of my game has been added, the classes now have abilities, would appreciate your input

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1537615758

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Class Battle WIP PHASE 2

Ill be testing this game in phases, the first phase was dice mechanics and how they roll
This phase will focus on the cards and how they interact with each other when using their abilities

The idea is to defeat your opponents cards while using dice to determine combat

Gameplay
You each begin the game with 2 dice and which will increase ever turn after to a maximum of 4 dice

Both players shuffle their decks and decide who will go first (The first player cannot roll dice or attack on the first turn of the game)

Add 2 dice to your dice pool to begin

Draw a card

Play 1 card on your field (you can only have a maximum number of 4 cards on your field)
(First player ends turn immediately

Roll 2 dice match the dice result to one of your cards, if it is a match you can use the card's ability
Once you selected an ability you are free to use it and attack the opponent's card
Your opponent has a chance to defend their card, your opponent rolls 2 dice and if it matches an DEF ability you can then use it to defend. The Defend will only work if it is targeted but some cards can defend your other cards though for this test phase, there are no abilities that does that

After both players had their first turn, both can add another die to the dice pool at the same time, you can add the last die once both players had their 2nd turn.

After you have rolled your dice, you have a choice to bank the die result, for example, if you have a card with a 3 pip and a 2 pip ability and you have rolled a 2 pip but not the 3 pip, you can bank the 2 pip and put it to the side for later use, doing this will reduce your roll count so instead of 4 dice you can only roll 3. If you change your mind you can add the banked dice back into the dice pool but only before you have rolled during that turn

You can only use the dice result once per card, so if you have 2 cards that can use the 3 pip die and you have only 1 3 pip dice result then you can only use it on one card.

Your cards can only attack once per turn so if your card is able to use multiple abilities through the dice result, then you can only use 1 of the abilities

For this test phase, it is the first person to 5 points, which means if you defeated 5 cards you win

wob
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hi. your dice mechanic looks

hi. your dice mechanic looks pretty solid and fun (as a very minor point tell players to put the dice on the selected attack instead of aside- that will help track of the attack choice and reinforces the fact a die can only be applied once).
but PLEASE change the name (i know its only a working title but unless its set in a school or its about the victorian "class" system thats a bad name)

jedite1000
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wob wrote:hi. your dice

wob wrote:
hi. your dice mechanic looks pretty solid and fun (as a very minor point tell players to put the dice on the selected attack instead of aside- that will help track of the attack choice and reinforces the fact a die can only be applied once).
but PLEASE change the name (i know its only a working title but unless its set in a school or its about the victorian "class" system thats a bad name)

Yeah I’ve been doing that with the dice when selecting the card to attack

Haha yeah I don’t have a name for my game yet, I’ve been just calling it dice battle card game wip v3 on tts

I’ve had a few testers, for the most part they liked it, I just need to balance some cards as some are too op

wob
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"dice battle card game wip

"dice battle card game wip v3" now that is a catchy title.

good luck with the play testing. this is where the work begins.

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