Skip to Content

KS — How to best handle shipping

49 replies [Last post]
questccg
questccg's picture
Offline
Joined: 04/16/2011

For those of you considering Kickstarting (KS-ing) your game and obviously those who have already KS-ed a game, I come asking a question about HOW to best handle shipping(?!)

Now there are all sorts of ways (this I know from experience), however the cost of shipping always seems to get included in the funds collected for KS-ing the game. Let me explain.

Let's say you have a Funding Goal of $10,000. KS fees take off 10% (appx.) so $1,000. To keep things round and even (and simple), let's say your game is being sold at $50 per unit. That means you need 200 backers to reach that Funding Goal.

However here's where I'm a bit LOST (sorry!)

If $50 per unit is the Reward Tier... And you INCLUDE an average $10 shipping cost, effectively out of $9,000 remaining, you are USING $2,000 towards SHIPPING. So what this means is that you are left with $7,000 (and we still have not covered manufacturing). Let's say manufacturing per unit is $20. 200 x $20 = $4,000... And we are left with $3,000...

How would it work with a SHIPPING "Subsidy"???

Same scenario, except shipping to some locations may cost MORE than $10. And in those cases, you would want the backers to pay an additional shipping fee...

How do we do this??? My understanding is that the EXTRA shipping cost is part of the $10,000 funding goal. So what that means is that shipping eats out of your remaining $3,000??? Because either way it's more money but it takes a cut from your FUNDING.

This is where I'm totally lost (sorry again!)

How can you possibly account for extra dollars that need to be paid for International shipping? Do you just "up" your Funding Goal by $2,000 to be on the safe side?? What if you get so many International backers that $2,000 extra shipping doesn't account for the monies required to pay for that shipping???

Game Designers who have KS-ed before (Jason, Arty, Chris, Raymond), how did you do it? Can you see where I am having difficulties?? Do you have any explanation that may help me???

Thank you very much for anyone who feels like commenting (even if you have not run a KS before). For those who have, please share your experience and how you approached the issue of shipping.

Cheers!

Jay103
Jay103's picture
Offline
Joined: 01/23/2018
questccg wrote:Game

questccg wrote:

Game Designers who have KS-ed before (Jason, Arty, Chris, Raymond), how did you do it? Can you see where I am having difficulties?? Do you have any explanation that may help me???

I looked at a few fulfillment houses, and went with one that charged a fixed price anywhere in the US, all-in (handling, packing materials, etc). So I had a very good idea of what I'd have to pay for shipping. Similar for other countries.

That's Quartermaster Fulfillment, btw. I'll let you know in a month how they do with the shipping part of this :)

So I figured it at about an $11 subsidy.. and then I charged extra, built-in on Kickstarter, for other countries as appropriate, which included an estimate of customs and VAT that I'd be paying for my customers. It's not exact, and I'm likely losing a few bucks here and there, but not terrible. And of course I'm losing 10% to fees, but I tried to build that into the model as well.

If you scroll down to the bottom of my KS page (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/727578181/heroes-and-treasure-rpg-b...) you can see my pretty-damned-simple shipping costs chart. I sold 0 copies in the high shipping zones, which is fine with me.

You can avoid the KS fee part by going through a backer-kit equivalent, but if you're not doing that anyway, I don't think it's cost-effective.

Also, there's a benefit to giving shipping-included prices to as many of your customers as possible, because people prefer that imho.

questccg
questccg's picture
Offline
Joined: 04/16/2011
Using build-in shipping calculations

Jay103 wrote:
...So I figured it at about an $11 subsidy.. and then I charged extra, built-in on Kickstarter, for other countries as appropriate, which included an estimate of customs and VAT that I'd be paying for my customers. It's not exact, and I'm likely losing a few bucks here and there, but not terrible. And of course I'm losing 10% to fees, but I tried to build that into the model as well.

Isn't that "extra charge" just being deducted from your FUNDING GOAL???

Like IF I decide that $10 goes into the reward for paying a subsidy for shipping ... That amount gets deducted from the Funding Goal, right?

Now IF I use the KS shipping and ADD like +$10 to Canada, etc. The money obtained will be DEDUCTED from my Funding Goal. What I am trying to say is the "extra" funding will be a part of the Funding Goal, therefore decreasing the amount of "profit" made during the KS.

Do you understand my point???

What I'm trying to say is this:

  • If a Backer choose to back the game and pays $50 which includes a $10 subsidy for shipping, that $50 will get deducted from the overall Funding Goal (so $10,000 - $50 = $9,950 left to fund).

  • If I ADD an "extra charge" for certain destinations like +$10 to Canada, then that additional amount will get deducted from the overall Funding Goal too (so $10,000 - $50 - $10 = $9,940 left to fund).

How do I prevent NOT having the "extra charge" as being a part of my Funding Goal??? Do you understand what I mean?? It's clear as night and day ... that the amount is part of the FUNDING and therefore will get deducted from the amount of monies that are collected...?

questccg
questccg's picture
Offline
Joined: 04/16/2011
And if you don't see my concern...?

If the "extra charge" is +$10 and there are 200 backers that means $2,000 of monies that would get DEDUCTED from the Funding Goal... Using my earlier example where I had $3,000 left over (starting with $10,000), $2,000 would get deducted from my profits leaving me with ONLY $1,000 of profit...!

Do you see my concern???

Note: From the Kickstarter Help Knowledge Base.

Additionally, any funds pledged towards shipping costs will count towards your project's goal.

Jay103
Jay103's picture
Offline
Joined: 01/23/2018
You are correct. When someone

You are correct. When someone in Europe bought my game, the extra $18 shipping cost was included in my grand total. And I also had to pay the KS fee on it.

So my goal had to be a bit higher to compensate for my estimate of what people would be paying as shipping surcharges.

If you want to avoid this, you'd want to use backerkit or equivalent. And then in the body of the KS, you specifically say that $X shipping will be charged AFTER the KS closes and is not included in the KS price.

Then you're not paying the fee on the shipping money, and it doesn't affect your grand total on KS.

Check out https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/vigour/growl . Scroll down to the bottom for the shipping section. They actually left the $ amount for shipping OPEN, which I think was a mistake, because people got upset when they saw how much it turned out to be in the end. They estimated $3 and charged $10, because their estimate was total BS. Not intentionally, I don't think, but seriously naive.

questccg
questccg's picture
Offline
Joined: 04/16/2011
Ugh... I really *dislike* the whole business side

That's what I thought.

BackerKit = 2% KS Funding + 5% BackerKit Funding + $199 Setup Fee.

Not cheap! A bit exorbitant.

I really, really DISLIKE the whole business side to Game Design.

"SpellMasters" could be a very COOL game... But I get the impression it will be impossible to sell.

Each Player has their OWN "Grimoire". You may start the game with a NEW "Grimoire" with no additional experience or you can use a "Grimoire" that has already been played with. This means some levels of experimentation have already occurred, making the game a bit easier.

Each BOX is filled with items used by ONE (1) Wizard. To PLAY, you need a minimum of three (3) such boxes... The Player count goes from 3 to 5 players. For 5 players, you need five (5) boxes!

Where everything SUCKS is the Financial side of things. Art is about $2,000 and Creative Writing is around $3,000. So that's $5k + the manufacturing ($10k) and shipping ($5k).

Here's the kicker: each box has to be priced at $50 USD! 3 Players = $150 USD. PLUS $20 USD extra for the board. Total = $170 USD + SHIPPING! $30 USD is paid for shipping, PLUS "extra" shipping (for International/Outside the USA).

The box costs me $20 USD to make, +$10 USD standard shipping, leaving $20 USD of profit. I know it SOUNDS like A LOT. It isn't. Once you take out all the various expenses: I make $4,500 USD with 500 backers (goal of $25,000 USD). I basically make $9 USD per box! Not unreasonable...


The business side is killing me ... even if the Art and Writing are reasonable in term of cost. I don't know of anyone who wants to spend ALMOST $200 USD to be able to play a GAME!!! Even IF it is super cool, intricate and challenging!

Thoughts???

Jay103
Jay103's picture
Offline
Joined: 01/23/2018
$20 to make?? That sounds

$20 to make?? That sounds extremely high...

questccg
questccg's picture
Offline
Joined: 04/16/2011
Well it's TGC + Volume discount

That's "The Game Crafter" (TGC) price. Don't forget each "Grimoire" has it's own box and contents. I know I could probably shop around via a US Broker (AdMagic, QPC) and probably shave a few dollars ... but makes everything more difficult for me.

With TGC they simply make the "sets" people buy.

I've been doing some "re-factoring" and I could probably get the Reward price to $35 USD per set (Single Game Box).

It would still cost me $20 USD to make and I would DIFFER shipping to the Pledge Manager such that I can drive DOWN the Funding Goal and have shipping be paid afterwards. But I would be upfront about shipping fees ... Just collect the monies afterwards.

So the price would be 3x $35 USD + $20 USD + Shipping (in the US, that would be +$24 USD). And they would need one Encounter Pack (+$10 USD). So a Grand Total = $159 USD!!!

But the average purchase would be only $129 USD (because not every purchase requires a Board or Encounter Pack...)

Less than $200 USD... But still *ouch* pricey!

questccg
questccg's picture
Offline
Joined: 04/16/2011
Game Sponsorship

There this thing about people who "sponsor" the game nights (or weekends). What usually happens is ONE (1) person buys a game and shares it with his friends.

That's why most games are for four (4) players ... to encourage SHARING.

But I see a problem in that usually this means one person is the Game Collector and the rest of the people just come over when everyone agrees to a play date.

My idea with SpellMasters is that when players come over... and play, if they enjoy the game, the Game Collector can offer to SELL a game set. They stand to recoup their initial investment and can save the player some costs in shipping fees for a box (which is $10 USD for one box).

I've also explained that USED "Grimoires" are more helpful to beginners because of the extra Scroll Pad information about spells cast and how to perform them. This too has an inherent value which makes the "perceived value" higher. And therefore a more worth-while purchase.

Anyway ... We'll see as I continue to evaluate and design more of the game to see if it is indeed VERY FUN and highly replayable.

Cheers!

questccg
questccg's picture
Offline
Joined: 04/16/2011
So I guess I should ASK first...

Has anyone used Pledge Manager, Backer Kit or Crowd Ox for handling shipping and additional "extras". I know my Publisher has used "Backer Kit" ... but I find the cost rather EXPENSIVE. Right now I know that "Exploding Kittens" which made Millions of dollars used "Pledge Manager". I have not investigated them ... and really only know the little information provided by their website.

Says that the fee for using "Pledge Manager" is "per Backer". The more backers, the more expensive the service. I really don't know if this is sufficient ... because I'm not 100% sure about what "features" they offer. Says something about shipping and customization needs. However I get the feeling that it's more of a "consulting experience" which worries me that it will cost a SUPER HIGH PRICE!

Specifically again, ANYONE with "Pledge Manager" experience???

I'm not impressed with Backer Kit and Crowd Ox looks very confusing. I like things to be simple and obvious, not veiled in mystery and techno babble.

Anyone???

Jay103
Jay103's picture
Offline
Joined: 01/23/2018
They’re great if you’re

They’re great if you’re selling add-ons, since Kickstarter doesn’t handle that. Just for doing the shipping charge, I don’t know.

I bought Yokai Septet, and they used backer manager. Could ask the creators there for an opinion

questccg
questccg's picture
Offline
Joined: 04/16/2011
Just the shipping charge...

The shipping charge by my projections is between $6,000 and $30,000 dollars!

It obviously depends on how many backers I get... but even on the LOW end of 500 backers, that's $6,000 USD going towards my Funding Goal. I would rather prefer getting that money AFTERWARDS so that it does NOT contribute monies to the Funding Goal.

Right now, I am interested in "Pledge Manager" designed and operated by KickTraq.

$6,000 "extra" or real money going towards the Funding Goal is IMPORTANT! Either I lose $6,000 in Funding OR I get shipping added in "Pledge Manager". I think it's stupid to "lose" $6,000 just because it's monies-in/monies-out.

It allows me to have a smaller Funding Goal ($17,500 USD) otherwise the goal would be closer to $25,000 USD and that should be 750 backers without the shipping fees. See what I mean??? You lose out on funding because of the shipping fees.

So by my estimates it's more logical to charge the shipping in "Pledge Manager" and DIFFER the cost (and get the full benefit of your Funding Goal; by being able to lower it).

And like I said, I'll be honest and post the shipping estimates on the KS page. It's just I don't want it to be a part of the monies that I earn. By my examples, it should be obvious now why... !

Jay103
Jay103's picture
Offline
Joined: 01/23/2018
questccg wrote:The shipping

questccg wrote:
The shipping charge by my projections is between $6,000 and $30,000 dollars!

It obviously depends on how many backers I get... but even on the LOW end of 500 backers, that's $6,000 USD going towards my Funding Goal. I would rather prefer getting that money AFTERWARDS so that it does NOT contribute monies to the Funding Goal.

Right now, I am interested in "Pledge Manager" designed and operated by KickTraq.

$6,000 "extra" or real money going towards the Funding Goal is IMPORTANT! Either I lose $6,000 in Funding OR I get shipping added in "Pledge Manager". I think it's stupid to "lose" $6,000 just because it's monies-in/monies-out.

It allows me to have a smaller Funding Goal ($17,500 USD) otherwise the goal would be closer to $25,000 USD and that should be 750 backers without the shipping fees. See what I mean??? You lose out on funding because of the shipping fees.

So by my estimates it's more logical to charge the shipping in "Pledge Manager" and DIFFER the cost (and get the full benefit of your Funding Goal; by being able to lower it).

And like I said, I'll be honest and post the shipping estimates on the KS page. It's just I don't want it to be a part of the monies that I earn. By my examples, it should be obvious now why... !


You're not losing $6,000. You'd just have to up your goal by 6000 to compensate. You're losing the 5% KS fee on that 6000, or $300.

It all works out the same.. a $17,500 goal with no shipping included will be reached just as fast as the $25,000 goal will be WITH shipping included.

Seems like a lot of shipping costs. Is this with fulfillment within the US? My US fulfillment will cost me like $3500 for 300 copies, and my thing weighs 4 lbs. Maybe being lighter doesn't save much.

questccg
questccg's picture
Offline
Joined: 04/16/2011
Not sure I agree 100%

Where I feel differently is the $17,500 vs $25,000 Funding Goal. Yes if you feel like you will get a lot of backers maybe it's true that those two goals are relatively identical.

However $25,000/500 backers = $50 per backer. And $17,500/500 = $35 per backer...

There is quite a drastic difference! Even if the balance ALMOST equates the shipping fees ... That amount (for shipping) can be lower with more copies being sold. Let me explain:

If $50 per backer includes shipping, each time you buy a copy of the game you are charging more shipping. So if you order two (2) copies, that's $100 with about $30 included shipping.

In the second scenario with $35 per backer (and no shipping) if you buy two (2) copies it's only $70 plus maybe $20 of shipping. And therefore less expensive as it's two (2) copies for about $90. Backers will be SAVING about $10 off the price because the shipping costs were differed. Because it's like $8 per copy + $4 insurance.

So the conclusion is that instead of having to UP your Funding Goal, Benefit #1 is a LOWER Funding Goal, Benefit #2 is you are saving 5% on KS Fees and Benefit #3 you are charging less to backers (with the purchase of multiple copies).

I think this perfectly illustrates that charging the shipping during the surveys (after the KS) is a Win-Win for both the project creator and the backers.

And I wanted to just ADD a brief thing about the Funding Goal: sure if you have thousands of backers it doesn't really matter. But if you are like most starting campaign which will only have 500 to 1,000 backers, lowering that goal can have several side-effects:

1. People perceive that you are looking to collect LESS money from the goal.

2. People see that the reward levels are less expensive.

3. It might encourage more backers coming on board because of #1 and #2.

The only downside I see is "conversion rates" may be affected. But here's the real HONEST aspect of this concept: you post a chart with estimates for the shipping according to different countries. Then when you come to completing the surveys, we have already established that shipping fees will be more accurate and save backers some monies (as shown above).

But maybe I might lose people in Australia who know shipping is expensive. However, I'm pretty darn sure at $50 ... or $100 for two sets, they probably wouldn't buy-in anyways. So I don't see this as a consequence that would affect the "conversion rates". It's just some people will not want to get on-board because of the higher cost to buy the game.

Jay103
Jay103's picture
Offline
Joined: 01/23/2018
questccg wrote: If $50 per

questccg wrote:

If $50 per backer includes shipping, each time you buy a copy of the game you are charging more shipping. So if you order two (2) copies, that's $100 with about $30 included shipping.

Kickstarter isn't a store. If someone's buying 2 copies it's at a tier for 2 copies, and you can set the shipping to $20 for the set.

questccg
questccg's picture
Offline
Joined: 04/16/2011
Very true

Jay103 wrote:
Kickstarter isn't a store. If someone's buying 2 copies it's at a tier for 2 copies, and you can set the shipping to $20 for the set.

I stand corrected. It is possible to setup multiple Rewards for various quantities, each with their own "Shipping fees".

Very true... (See I'm not always right!) I guess it's because I am totally absorbed by my Excel spreadsheet and it's very cut & dry: reward = X, shipping = Y. Not multiple rewards, just one giving me a "forecast" if you would like (I can't find a better term) of what sales from a KS would look like.

And the shipping = Y is like a subsidy with built-in pricing in the reward.

Still with multiple rewards, you could of course vary that pricing and change the reward = Z (where that's another amount for multiple copies)...

So yeah... It's just because of how I am trying to estimate things ... that got me thinking that shipping was a FLAT FEE (included in the reward). But it's not... Fair enough (now you make me want to have a better spreadsheet! :P)

Jay103
Jay103's picture
Offline
Joined: 01/23/2018
That's really the whole

That's really the whole reason I did 6-packs in my KS.. To let people save on shipping fees. Well, also I thought maybe a store would pick up a 6-pack, potentially, but also just so a few people in Australia or whatever could get together and ship the whole thing for $60 instead of $18 each.

I did in fact sell two 6-packs, but both in the US.

anonymousmagic
Offline
Joined: 11/06/2013
I'm not sure I understand the

I'm not sure I understand the problem. Your funding goal should include ALL your cost, including the shipping. So if you need $10000 to fund the manufacturing of your game, $5000 in Kickstarter fees and taxes, and $2000 in shipping, ALL of that should make a funding goal of $17000 PLUS a safety margin MINUS whatever you are willing to invest yourself.

I'm pretty I forgot to include some other costs. It's better to have the funding goal too high than making it too low and being unable to deliver.

Jay103
Jay103's picture
Offline
Joined: 01/23/2018
If you're paying $5000 in

If you're paying $5000 in fees on a $10k project, you're doing something wrong :)

anonymousmagic
Offline
Joined: 11/06/2013
Jay103 wrote:If you're paying

Jay103 wrote:
If you're paying $5000 in fees on a $10k project, you're doing something wrong :)

I added "and taxes" to the end of that phrase, which unfortunately makes it quite a lot more reasonable, but yes, I was just plucking numbers out of thin air to make for a somewhat easy calculation.

Jay103
Jay103's picture
Offline
Joined: 01/23/2018
anonymousmagic wrote:Jay103

anonymousmagic wrote:
Jay103 wrote:
If you're paying $5000 in fees on a $10k project, you're doing something wrong :)

I added "and taxes" to the end of that phrase, which unfortunately makes it quite a lot more reasonable, but yes, I was just plucking numbers out of thin air to make for a somewhat easy calculation.


Well, income taxes shouldn't be included in there, because you don't round up for taxes :). At least in the US, if the money you collect is being spent on making the items in the same calendar year (and depending on what type of corporation you are, etc), you can deduct that directly from your income and not have to pay taxes on it.

If you're talking about VAT you may pay, etc., then yeah you need to factor that in. If you have a primarily non-US donor base, and you're absorbing the VAT and customs charge ("EU-Friendly" shipping), definitely yes.

I Will Never Gr...
I Will Never Grow Up Gaming's picture
Offline
Joined: 04/23/2015
anonymousmagic wrote:I'm not

anonymousmagic wrote:
I'm not sure I understand the problem. Your funding goal should include ALL your cost, including the shipping. So if you need $10000 to fund the manufacturing of your game, $5000 in Kickstarter fees and taxes, and $2000 in shipping, ALL of that should make a funding goal of $17000 PLUS a safety margin MINUS whatever you are willing to invest yourself.

I'm pretty I forgot to include some other costs. It's better to have the funding goal too high than making it too low and being unable to deliver.

Absolutely this (made up numbers aside).

Also, before someone says "But then you're paying/losing 10% to KS for the shipping funds too!"; you'll pay a pledge manager approximately the same (approx 5% to the PM and 4-5% to credit card processing) so it's like comparing 6 of one and half dozen of the other.

Your KS goal should include everything needed to produce, freight and ship the game to your customer, pay fees, taxes, vat, sunk costs et.al.

Otherwise, it should include everything needed to produce and freight the game and THEN use a pledge manager to collect shipping costs outside of Kickstarter.

Using the Pledge manager for shipping cost collection decreases your funding goal and IS becoming more common, however it also means your backers now have 2 transactions, one of which may be higher than your estimate (unless you guarantee the $ amount that will be charged for shipping in which case you're taking a risk anyway) which will alienate a portion of potential backers.

In either case, you should probably use a pledge manager anyway. Anecdotally (though from what I'm seeing this is a pretty common thing), I raised $34,000 through Kickstarter and an additional $5000 through PM, largely through $1 backers increasing to a full pledge and about 20 +/- late backers (out of a total of 426 backers). That's an additional 15% in funding for a total cost of about $500.

I Will Never Gr...
I Will Never Grow Up Gaming's picture
Offline
Joined: 04/23/2015
questccg wrote:Jay103

questccg wrote:
Jay103 wrote:
Kickstarter isn't a store. If someone's buying 2 copies it's at a tier for 2 copies, and you can set the shipping to $20 for the set.

I stand corrected. It is possible to setup multiple Rewards for various quantities, each with their own "Shipping fees".

Very true... (See I'm not always right!) I guess it's because I am totally absorbed by my Excel spreadsheet and it's very cut & dry: reward = X, shipping = Y. Not multiple rewards, just one giving me a "forecast" if you would like (I can't find a better term) of what sales from a KS would look like.

And the shipping = Y is like a subsidy with built-in pricing in the reward.

Still with multiple rewards, you could of course vary that pricing and change the reward = Z (where that's another amount for multiple copies)...

So yeah... It's just because of how I am trying to estimate things ... that got me thinking that shipping was a FLAT FEE (included in the reward). But it's not... Fair enough (now you make me want to have a better spreadsheet! :P)

Exactly. Shipping can be charged as a flat fee on your pledge level (for worldwide) or you can have it separated as X$ for US, Y$ for CA, Z$ for EU, and B$ for Rest of World .. or whatever amount of separation you desire.

Then, you can include a portion of the REAL shipping cost in the pledge if you want (which is recommended) because people have zero clue what shipping really costs and will balk at anything over a certain amount that their used to.

anonymousmagic
Offline
Joined: 11/06/2013
I Will Never Grow Up Gaming

I Will Never Grow Up Gaming wrote:
Exactly. Shipping can be charged as a flat fee on your pledge level (for worldwide) or you can have it separated as X$ for US, Y$ for CA, Z$ for EU, and B$ for Rest of World .. or whatever amount of separation you desire.

Then, you can include a portion of the REAL shipping cost in the pledge if you want (which is recommended) because people have zero clue what shipping really costs and will balk at anything over a certain amount that their used to.


In my personal opinion shipping cost should never exceed the cost of the pledge level someone backed for. Even though I see why a pledge manager can be useful, I don't recommend charging shipping in a pledge manager after collecting the funds. The only time I agreed to do that, the shipping turned out more expensive than anticipated. As a backer, I want to know what I need to pay immediately in one go. No late charges. No surprises. I know I am not the only one.

Besides, using anything other than the Kickstarter system increases the chance of people missing the email telling them about the pledge manager in their daily pile of junk mail. As a project creator I wouldn't want to responsible for taking someone's money and then not delivering because they forgot to add shipping later.

Jay103
Jay103's picture
Offline
Joined: 01/23/2018
Anecdotally, I still have

Anecdotally, I still have about 15 people who haven’t done the KS survey itself. One of my premium-price backers just responded to my sixth reminder message, and two others still haven’t.

questccg
questccg's picture
Offline
Joined: 04/16/2011
Monies in/Monies out

I still disagree that the Funding Goal should include "Backer Shipping". IF my Funding Goal is $25,000 WITH Shipping, it makes more sense for it to be less and be $17,500 WITHOUT shipping. IF this lowers my rewards from $50 USD to only $35 USD ... you can see the attraction.

Backers may be *hesitant* to back at the $50 USD level. However if the reward is only $35 USD + Shipping... That has the benefit of making the Backers understand that the cost of the game is ONLY $35 USD and that the shipping to Backers is "extra".

Instead of having to design a Pie Chart that nobody looks at... All they do is look at the REWARD LEVELS... And come to the conclusion that $50 USD is too HIGH!

Removing the Shipping ... illustrates how the Reward is LESS EXPENSIVE, I pay LESS KS Fees and Backers get a more HONEST level of pricing.

If you cannot see this... There is nothing I can do or say to convince you. The bottom line is that SHIPPING is a Monies In/Monies Out situation. You make NO MONEY on it and it should NOT be part of your Funding Goal (IMHO)! Making your goal $17,500 USD to $25,000 USD is quite a large increase which might be a put-off for some Backers!

Jay103
Jay103's picture
Offline
Joined: 01/23/2018
I see the argument both ways.

I see the argument both ways. Jamie has at least one article on it.

On one hand, it looks cheaper to pledge $35. On the other hand, pledgers feel uncertain about what they’ll eventually pay. If you keep it variable (not stating “$15 shipping” in the webpage and instead just saying “plus whatever shipping and handling turn out to be” ) then people could get a nasty shock, like I did with Growl, paying triple their estimate. I probably wouldn’t have backed if I’d known. Which is sort of in support of your position, but also leaves me disgruntled.

My own campaign was all-included.

questccg
questccg's picture
Offline
Joined: 04/16/2011
I understand the potential problem...

I fully comprehend the "conversion" issue... And how some people can "feel" *miffed* when they see the additional amount.

But I'm not doing this to "trick" people to pledge and then say "Hehehe you need to pay an additional $15 for shipping!"

My goal is to POST said Shipping Prices in a nice "chart" DURING the CAMPAIGN ... which is only an "estimate" but I will do my darnest to TRY to equal those amounts or only be off by a couple of dollars.

I'm not trying to use the shipping as a way to coax backers. People will be able to do the math themselves and see if it's worth their while.

I understand the "potential" issue...

Note: And if you think about the "real world" like Amazon or any other website selling you something... You get the PRICE of the item in question and then at "check-out" you get the cost of shipping and usually there are options according to how fast you want your item to be delivered... So it's "price of the item" FIRST and then SHIPPING.

I know Amazon offers discounts like buy more than $X dollars and you get FREE shipping... I'm just trying to illustrate that most times in sales, the cost of shipping is added LATER.

Jay103
Jay103's picture
Offline
Joined: 01/23/2018
If you’re changing it after

If you’re changing it after the campaign, you could be pissing people off. I’d say to have a fixed price and eat the dollar if you need to.

questccg
questccg's picture
Offline
Joined: 04/16/2011
Shipping prices are subject to change!

Jay103 wrote:
If you’re changing it after the campaign, you could be pissing people off. I’d say to have a fixed price and eat the dollar if you need to.

My main concern is that the price of shipping GOES UP from when I start the campaign to 30 days later when the campaign ends.

That's why I stated it may be only a couple dollars at most. I can't do like with the manufacturer and get a quote which is valid for 3 or 6 months (and the prices are "locked in" and need to be honored).

The shipping fees are subject to increases at any moment and there is no direct relationship with the shipping companies (in my case anyways...)

Note: Ideally I would put the "disclaimer". Because $1.00 on 1,000 units is $1,000! And I'm not saying if I am wildly successful ... The campaign in is in an "every dollar counts" type of scenario... If that was not the case, I would have left shipping in the price of the Reward (to simplify my life).

But it can be a not so "insignificant" amount... in the end. So I'd just be worried that I won't "eat" that extra $1.00 because of the total impact. But this is in the worst-case scenario (where shipping or insurance prices go up by a small amount)...

questccg
questccg's picture
Offline
Joined: 04/16/2011
But I understand the point...

I've posted this Question on the Facebook "Kickstarter Advice" Group... And the advice that I got was rather "surprising":

Almost all campaigns I backed so far held off shipping costs until the pledge manager. Basically, if you have add-ons, a PM is the way to go anyway and you can easily defer the shipping costs to the PM as well. Having a PM just to offload the shipping costs... well, I'm not sure that it'd really help as you'd have more overhead on your end. But as a backer, I don't have any problems with paying the shipping costs separately.

Or

It's really not that controversial, as most big-box campaigns that are stretch-goal based work that way. I would not be surprised if you found a few campaigns that adhere to your model, but beyond philosophy and your personal feelings, you'll need to evaluate how the model actually affects conversion. I'm more reluctant as a backer to jump on board with non-bundled shipping, especially as an Australian, but that does depend on my excitement level / confidence in the creator's estimate / pledge level and cost.

It seems like that's what the external "Pledge Managers" are for ... and that they are FREQUENTLY used ... More than what I have seen. And this is perhaps because I have NOT backed those LARGE "miniature" games or game dungeon pieces which made millions of dollars.

I usually invest in BGDF Designers or small campaigns that I find have the potential to be great games.

So I guess it's a question of "exposure"?!

Note: I have backed Chris' "Scrambo", Andrew's "Portal & Prophets", Jason's "Heroes & Treasure" and Jame's "Into the Black"... in addition to things like Coins and cool dice from ACO and Gate Keeper Games. I've also pledged a $1 to comment on a few KS campaigns too...

Syndicate content


forum | by Dr. Radut