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Holiday Fever A Family Tradition Feedback

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evansmind244
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Please help me with final proof reading of the Rules, Box Top, and Box Back. Any and all feedback on Art, Design, Layout is helpful. Appreciate your time.

Art - Box Cover

Art - Box Bottom

PDF Rulebook

questccg
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Well this looks MUCH better

I love the IDEA of having a PRESENT as the Box Cover! BRILLIANT! Who thought of that idea??? Was it you or your designer?? Either way it looks real nice: a gift within a gift!

Note: I also EDITED your links so that people can know WHAT they are clicking on (Art or PDF, etc.) Hope you don't mind... It made it a little clearer to know what LINK was for what part of your game.

evansmind244
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Questccg

Questccg as always I appreciate your feed back and help making my post more clear. I came up with the Box being a Gift, and the Designer made it look amazing. He showed me several different ways to have the Gift Tag and we decided on the one shown. I'm glad you like it.
Also I think I'm going to stick with print on Demand from the Game Crafter this year and just see how the game does.

questccg
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Do you have a Website???

If yes, please LINK the URL here... So we can have a look.

If no, do you have a FACEBOOK page for the game?

If yes, please LINK the FB URL here... Again so we can have a look.

If no, well it would be wise to have some kind of Social Media presence.

And I mean either a Website or a Facebook page... Something people can SEARCH for and Find on Google or Facebook. This will GREATLY help with regard to SELLING on "The Game Crafter" (TGC). As you know there are literally thousands of games on TGC. Having a Facebook page dedicated to your game LINK to TGC is a wise move...

This way people can FIND your game and then all you need to do is provide a link to BUY it on TGC.

There is another solution: you buy like 50 games from TGC, stock them and sell them via a website like "Store Envy" (http://www.storeenvy.com) You can create your own FREE store presence and sell games. You'll pay COST for them and if you don't sell on TGC platform, you make an extra 30%!!!

And what you can do is give a "discount", like "Buy NOW and save 15%!" or something similar before the Christmas Holidays!

Just some other ideas to think about. Cheers Evan!

questccg
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Method "B"

Where you buy 50 units of the game and then re-sell via a website... Forgot the shipping to your home (that might eat into the 30%) but if you order 50 games to re-sell on your own, you'll save an additional $2.00 per unit. So that a savings of $100.00 USD (in total). Will probably pay for the BULK ship to your home...

Your online store patrons will have to pay for shipping (above and beyond the cost to buy the game) ... But with a discount of 15% ... that probably offsets part of the cost of paying for shipping also.

That's a bit of a way to figure out how to TRY to sell DIRECT. Without people needing to know that the game was made by TGC. Like I said with the discount (bulk) and the full profit (+30%) ... You can probably do well and you could feel out the market too!

The only potential problem is "running out of stock". I know that's a good problem to have. But if you buy 50 and there are 100 buyers... Well that's a bit of a shame. Maybe you can test the market in October. Put the game out, include the 15% discount for Christmas and see how many people buy. Then maybe from there you can better plan for the Holiday Season.

I know it's tough to "estimate", you could undershoot and the opposite is also possible overshoot. Again all "nice" problems to have... Just sharing some additional thoughts!

questccg
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Rulebook review

evansmind244 wrote:
Questccg as always I appreciate your feed back...

I've read through the PDF. I'll be sending you my comments/feedback to your G-Mail account.

Cheers Evan!

Note #1: The other assets (Cover and bottom) seem to be okay. The only thing that was a bit "off" was the board on the back. If the angle wasn't so drastic, it could maybe present more to the person buying the game.

Obviously having it a such an angle makes it more interesting when you open the board and see it for yourself.

So this is a matter of pure preference. Either can be acceptable.

evansmind244
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Website

I have been trying to figure out WIX and unfortunately I'm a slow learner. I will put more effort once I head out on my next work trip, and have more time. We just had another Baby...so I've been busy.
Thank you for the link to Storeenvy. I didn't realize TGC takes 30%???

Social Media Presence so far!!

https://www.holidayfevergame.com

https://www.instagram.com/holiday_fever_game/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/evan-shelline-355969152/

evansmind244
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questccg wrote:Where you buy

questccg wrote:
Where you buy 50 units of the game and then re-sell via a website... Forgot the shipping to your home (that might eat into the 30%) but if you order 50 games to re-sell on your own, you'll save an additional $2.00 per unit. So that a savings of $100.00 USD (in total). Will probably pay for the BULK ship to your home...

Your online store patrons will have to pay for shipping (above and beyond the cost to buy the game) ... But with a discount of 15% ... that probably offsets part of the cost of paying for shipping also.

That's a bit of a way to figure out how to TRY to sell DIRECT. Without people needing to know that the game was made by TGC. Like I said with the discount (bulk) and the full profit (+30%) ... You can probably do well and you could feel out the market too!

The only potential problem is "running out of stock". I know that's a good problem to have. But if you buy 50 and there are 100 buyers... Well that's a bit of a shame. Maybe you can test the market in October. Put the game out, include the 15% discount for Christmas and see how many people buy. Then maybe from there you can better plan for the Holiday Season.

I know it's tough to "estimate", you could undershoot and the opposite is also possible overshoot. Again all "nice" problems to have... Just sharing some additional thoughts!

How long does it take for TCG to print and ship a bulk order? Is it possible to just let customers order games from TCG or is print and ship time a barrier?

evansmind244
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questccg wrote:evansmind244

questccg wrote:
evansmind244 wrote:
Questccg as always I appreciate your feed back...

I've read through the PDF. I'll be sending you my comments/feedback to your G-Mail account.

Cheers Evan!

Note #1: The other assets (Cover and bottom) seem to be okay. The only thing that was a bit "off" was the board on the back. If the angle wasn't so drastic, it could maybe present more to the person buying the game.

Obviously having it a such an angle makes it more interesting when you open the board and see it for yourself.

Agreed on the board, but I am going for a bit of surprise with this game. Ultimately this game is designed for family's to make it their own. Many places where they can adjust the rules, or style of plan to meet their family's preference. I've got about 24 Family Rules that families may want to add to the game...or subtract!!!

So this is a matter of pure preference. Either can be acceptable.

harmon89
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This looks like the kind of

This looks like the kind of game my extended family would enjoy playing around Christmas. It could really enjoy to the non-hobby gamer crowd.

So are there any strategic choices to make in the game or is it all chance?

As far as layout edits I think there should be a line space after the "Gift and Value Cards" paragraph.

questccg
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Explanation

evansmind244 wrote:
How long does it take for TCG to print and ship a bulk order? Is it possible to just let customers order games from TCG or is print and ship time a barrier?

I think they have accelerated their production times as of lately. I'm not sure about "Bulk orders" but it depends on the time of the year. December is NOT a good time to order. I'd say you have until the beginning of November...

Okay let me explain why a "Bulk order" might be of value to you.

1. As I said in the earlier comment, if you order 50 games, you get about a $2.00 discount per game (the COST price). That's $100 off and would probably cover the cost of shipping the game to your home.

2. If you look in the TGC editor where you set the price, you have "Use automatic pricing". If you set this to "NO" you can specify the retail price for your game. Next to this price are three (3) fields: Cost, TGC and Profit. The TGC field is 30% of all production sold directly from TGC.

What I mean is that out of all the monies paid, TGC take 30% if the game is SOLD on TGC's platform. But then TGC takes care of handling the shipping (paid in addition to the price of the game) and you would never "run out" of inventory unless a PART becomes temporarily "unavailable" (meaning they need to re-stock that part).

And sometimes FINDING the game AMONG all the other TGC games can be "difficult" too... Having your own "webstore" and presenting ONE (1) game is pretty clear: "This is what I am SELLING!"

And so to conclude:

A> Your "Bulk" shipping to your home is covered by the discount in volume.

B> You don't pay 30% of the monies to TGC, you get all the profit.

C> You'll have to charge and handle postage yourself.

D> It's easier with only a couple games to figure out if you want to buy.

E> Less confusion about what game you are selling as compare to ALL the games on TGC.

If you have any additional questions, I'd be happy to answer them.

evansmind244 wrote:
I didn't realize TGC takes 30%???

YES they do for all order PROCESSED and HANDLED on the TGC PLATFORM. Of course NOT orders you buy yourself. Those you get at COST. And if you order a bunch of them, you get "Bulk" discounts from 10 to 100 units and then 500 and 1,000 units for KS-related manufacturing.

And what I mean is: A gamer does a search in the TGC catalog, finds YOUR game and orders it. That's processed and handled by TGC.

If you have some other webstore elsewhere in the Internet. And you bought a "Bulk" order ... Well nobody knows it's a TGC made product and you make 100% the monies paid to you. But again then you need to handle the payment yourself too... And for that you'll need a webstore... It's more complicated, but if you do the work, your product stands alone and you get all the monies from the transaction.

Note #1: Also the link I provided "Store Envy" allows you to connect a "PayPal" Account for integration. They when people BUY the game from your "Store Envy" webstore, the monies go to your PayPal Account. I haven't gotten 100% up to speed ... But I'd personally would like to get 100% of the purchase price, TGC are already making money on the Manufacturing side of things.

evansmind244
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harmon89 wrote:This looks

harmon89 wrote:
This looks like the kind of game my extended family would enjoy playing around Christmas. It could really enjoy to the non-hobby gamer crowd.

So are there any strategic choices to make in the game or is it all chance?

There a 4 strategies to try and win:

1. “Race to Christmas”: The player chooses NOT to purchase Lights & Ornaments when given the opportunity, to instead buy Gifts and Value cards with the hope of gaining the Most Valuable Christmas at the end of the game. This strategy has about a 24% win ratio over 100,000 games. The other strategies are close.
2. “Decorate your Tree”: The player chooses to purchase Lights & Ornaments when given the opportunity to be the first player to enter December, and land on Christmas, with the hope that they will land on Christmas and end the game before other players have the opportunity to acquire a high enough score to beat their full Christmas Bonus score. Which is (Forgiven Debts, $600 value in Lights & ornaments, $500 value for landing on Christmas, Value of Credits, and any value cards they have under the gifts they acquired).
3. A third strategy is to buy as few Gifts as possible, but as many Value cards as possible. This will increase the length of the game, giving the player more chances to get more Value. The secondary objective of the game is to have the most valuable Christmas of all time. There is space in the rules book to keep record of the Highest scores achieved.
4. A fourth strategy is to buy 3 lights and 2 ornaments early in the game, and then switch to buying Gifts and Value cards so that if a player decides to “Decorate their Tree” you will only need to purchase 1 more ornament to try and beat the other player to Christmas, for the Bonus.

Given the fact that the best strategy is about 24%, you could say its all LUCK, but there are strategic decisions during the game. Of course I did design this game for families, and wanted to ensure its fun for everyone, which is where Luck excels over strategy.

Thanks for taking a look!!!

harmon89
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100,000 games? That's

100,000 games? That's impressive. How did you get that many playtests?

evansmind244
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Ludible

I hired this Awesome Dude who runs a board game balancing business to help me figure out all the numbers. Incredible service....couldn't recommend it enough but on a budget its expensive. I think all together he ran the game 20,000,000 times!!! We worked out the kinks to say the least!!!

http://www.ludible.nl

Realistically I've done about 100 blind play-test, and about 500 + play-tests with family and friends.

questccg
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Looking at the numbers

evansmind244 wrote:
There a 4 strategies to try and win...

If one strategy wins 24% of the time and there are four (4) strategies, that means on average each strategy has a 1 in 4 chance of winning. Don't need a fancy AI model to figure that out! To me is sounds like each strategy has about a 25% chance of winning, so each strategy is "balanced" in that anyway you go, with the LUCK, you get about the SAME ODDS of winning.

And I'm not saying that's a BAD outcome. Quite the opposite. Having everything NEAR "balanced" is probably GOOD. Otherwise players would ignore the less effective strategy and focus on the ones that are BETTER. And then you would have a "broken" game.

So what you are saying is not crazy, it actually makes sense from a figures standpoint of view. Well 24% is NOT 25%, there is a 1% variation which means that the other three (3) strategies may be SLIGHTLY better.

questccg
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It's just "another" approach

evansmind244 wrote:
I didn't realize TGC takes 30%???

If you use "Automatic Pricing", the system ask you for a MARKUP. The sales prices is COST + MARKUP. TGC takes 30% of MARKUP and gives the designer 70% of MARKUP. Either way, in TGC platform sales, you are going to give TGC an additional 30% over the price of manufacturing.

That's the way TGC works. I just presented you a "work-around"... And really TGC aren't bothered by it... It's just your OWN "Sales & Marketing" channel (or webstore). As long as you keep selling, that means they'll keep on making and earning monies from manufacturing (their "core" business) they will be around for many moons to come!

Jay103
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Clever cover

Clever cover.

I think a photo on the back instead of the sort-of-rendered game board would be better. At that extreme angle it doesn't look real.

It's a little weird to me that the box is taller than it is wide.

questccg
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Some "things" about the "game"

I know it's too late at this point... but you said you wanted feedback ... so here is mine!

There are some things that bother me about the game. Just things that feel a bit "off". Again this is constructive criticism just so that you can be aware... (it's feedback: negative AND positive).

1: You collect Gifts and give them Values. But Christmas is about GIVING gifts, not collecting them for yourself. As such there should be a final game phase on the 25 December which is "gift revealing" (more on that later/below).

The whole "hoarding" your gifts for yourself doesn't seem very Christmas-like in spirit.

2: When you decorate your tree with Lights and Ornaments... I don't like the fact that you can LOSE them.

Is the Grinch in your home stealing them???

Decorating the Christmas tree is a Family Tradition and TBH I don't ever see anyone losing Lights or Ornaments. Yes sometimes the cat gets under the tree and an ornament or two drop to the ground and break... (stupid cats) But for the most part... LOSING items is not part of the Christmas Spirit.

3: Making speeches or Singing Carols is okay, now that you've integrated into the game. This is one thing that is much better implemented than it was in prior versions of the game. So kudos to you... It's more festive in a "special" kind of way.

4: Dressing your Christmas Tree card is much better too (than it was when players needed to draw their own tree). This is also a PLUS for your new design, because it also seems better integrated too. So again another kudos to you... Good job in bringing that all together.


Just some other "thoughts"... Point #1 ... Bothers me. Not only it is "consumerism"... It's also "Hoarding" for yourself. I also have the impression that people can STEAL "Gifts"... That too is not part of Christmas ... and is NOT very "positive" too! Greed, Stealing, Hoarding, etc. Doesn't make me very interested in playing such a game TBH.

Maybe something about the "Stocking"... For each player playing the game there is one (1) stocking. And PLAYERs ADD "Gifts + Value cards" to ANY one of the 2 to 6 stockings (according to the number of players). It's not a 100% definite process, so you don't know which stocking IS THE BEST!

On 25 December, the first player to finish gets to choose WHICH "Stocking" (and obviously all Gifts + Value cards associated) they choose to be theirs! And then as players "finish up" (end game order) they get to choose the next and next until final stocking is left over (and the last player gets that one).

And then PLAYERs calculate and REVEAL their "stocking" SCORES.

The interesting part is this:

A> Do you put all of YOUR gifts into ONE (1) Stocking.

B> Do you spread the gifts among the various Stockings to make the victory HARDER???

C> You may not get the stocking YOU WANT... So maybe prepare to "spread the wealth" among several of the "stockings".

D> Monitor how your opponents are putting their "Gifts + Value cards" into which stocking... Try to predict which is the most valuable!

Just some IDEAs. IDK. Sorry... This is just my honest Feedback.

questccg
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Other "ideas"

Instead of EVERYTHING happening on the 25 December... Player's go AROUND the board much like in Monopoly. As you roll & move, you earn "Gifts + Value cards" and place them in the "Stockings". The first player to make it AROUND the board, gets to choose the first "Stocking" and earn those "Gifts"... Subsequent players around choose the next one...

This is better than the "All-or-nothing" method proposed above where EVERYTHING happens at the end of the game.

The idea introduces some RACING and if you roll DOUBLES, you can do like in Monopoly, Roll Again! So players speed around the board trying to make off with the best "gifts" secretly found in the "Stockings".

It's consumerism, but it's also less predictable which stocking has what value... Not 100% again depends on player strategies... And spreading the wealth too... Which is IN the "Christmas Spirit" too!

Note: I think it's much HARDER to implement this RACE model versus the End-of-Game scenario on the 25 December...

For the most part, it's just an idea ... that may spark OTHER ideas...!

questccg
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Giving Gifts!

Much in the "Christmas Spirit", every time you "BUY" an "Gift" and add "Value" cards to it... You also choose one of the other players to get it.

The key element is that the REVEAL occurs on the 25 December.

You can never give a gift to yourself ... always someone else. So you need to MANAGE how you spend to get gifts and award them to other players.

You can have a secret score card on which you write the "Gift" + "Value" and associate it with one of the other players.

This method of play is a bit boring with less than 4 players. And not recommended for 2 player games, because you know that you give the "gift + value" cards to the ONLY opponent.

It just doesn't work very well with LESS than 4 players!


Another idea is to use "dice luck" and each time you BUY a "Gift" and give it "Value", you roll the die (1 - 6) and the corresponding Stocking gets that "gift" (+Value cards). This is a bit more RANDOM... But still interesting because you don't know the value of the "randomized" stockings per se. You just have an idea about which stocking has more gifts than the other...

But then again, you still are not guaranteed (100%) to know the VALUE. There may be LESS "Gifts" but they are MORE "Valuable"!

Note: COAL becomes a "wildcard" in this scenario... You think you're getting more "Gifts" but in turn it can be COAL with a negative "Value"! MouHaha...

evansmind244
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questccg wrote:evansmind244

questccg wrote:
evansmind244 wrote:
I didn't realize TGC takes 30%???

If you use "Automatic Pricing", the system ask you for a MARKUP. The sales prices is COST + MARKUP. TGC takes 30% of MARKUP and gives the designer 70% of MARKUP. Either way, in TGC platform sales, you are going to give TGC an additional 30% over the price of manufacturing.

That's the way TGC works. I just presented you a "work-around"... And really TGC aren't bothered by it... It's just your OWN "Sales & Marketing" channel (or webstore). As long as you keep selling, that means they'll keep on making and earning monies from manufacturing (their "core" business) they will be around for many moons to come!

Awesome work-around. Thank you for sharing it.

evansmind244
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Jay103 wrote:Clever cover. I

Jay103 wrote:
Clever cover.

I think a photo on the back instead of the sort-of-rendered game board would be better. At that extreme angle it doesn't look real.

It's a little weird to me that the box is taller than it is wide.

The box should be a 10 X 10 X 3" I hope its just an optical illusion but I'll double check with the Designer.

evansmind244
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Quest, Great feedback and

Quest,

Great feedback and thanks for the positive and negative.

-There is a Family Reunion space in December where every player can Give away a Gift. So essentially if you want to be truly KIND you could give away your best gift then!!! Its actually a very meaningful space when played with some KINDNESS!! We just had a Family Reunion at my house last week, and my Aunt did horrible so everyone gave her a Gift, and she ended up winning because of that!!!

-There are 2 Burglar cards. The burglar can steal a Light or Ornament, or a Gift. There are also 2 cards where the Kids break a light!! On that card you give a speech on your disciplinary philosophy!!! hahahahah

-Actually you will have to draw your own Christmas Tree and the Lights and Ornaments. I just love that part of the game too much.

-The stealing Gifts, Lights or Ornaments works out well with the game. I like to Steal someone's awesome Gift (if I get the card) then if I feel bad I give it back to them at the Family Reunion! Quite honestly this game is about creating Teaching experiences for Families hopefully families write about those experience in their Journal on the back of their score card. If your child steals a gift the parent can actually have a talk with their kid about stealing etc........Lots of things like that in the game for parents to talk to their kids about.

-I really Really REALLY love your Stocking idea for the end of the game. I will incorporate that into the Family Rules that will eventually be added to the website. Thank You

Jay103
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evansmind244 wrote:Jay103

evansmind244 wrote:
Jay103 wrote:
Clever cover.

I think a photo on the back instead of the sort-of-rendered game board would be better. At that extreme angle it doesn't look real.

It's a little weird to me that the box is taller than it is wide.

The box should be a 10 X 10 X 3" I hope its just an optical illusion but I'll double check with the Designer.


Never mind!
It's definitely just an optical illusion. My brain wanted to see the present side as a rectangle, and then the back side has a vertical design to it, which made me think it too was a rectangle.

evansmind244
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Jay103

When you said that I looked closer and thought it was off too!!

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