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-I've decided to use GameLand to manufacture my game. Because they are the only one's that continued forward with the quote process.
-I've decided against TGC because my game was almost $52 per unit. I can't think of anyone except hobby gamer's that would pay that price for a game, and I don't think any hobby gamer's will be buying my game. So I ordered one for promo purposes and its off to China.
-I will order 1000 units. Hopefully I sell 200 but as of yet the Tariff hasn't passed and this will save me money in the future if that happens. Also I have a shot at going viral and selling 600 which would get me into the Green for this project!!!
-GameLand says they can have me games by October before the Holiday season!! I know that if anything goes wrong that could be close....but I've got to HOPE!!
-I'm looking at 6.78 per unit cost.
-No idea on Freight Forwarding yet.
-Still don't have a lock down on Fulfillment. None of the typical Board Game fulfillment companies wanted my business. Perhaps they're hobby gamer's??? I'm sort of a black sheep in this community, I think because my game looks like Monopoly!!
-I may create a marketing campaign that goes something like this "If you like Monopoly then you'll Love Holiday Fever A Family Tradition".
-I'm set on finding a Fulfillment company in SLC Utah, because its close enough for me to drive to and pick up the games that don't get sold this Holiday Season and store them myself until holidays 2020.
-Thinking about doing a KS in November with a very low goal, offering a coupon for donations (keep from paying KS too much cash) that backers can take to the website and get the game for Cheap!! Just a marketing idea.

Please shoot some holes, give me your idea's, experience, strength, hope!!!

Comments

Careful with using another

Careful with using another company's trademark in an ad.. you'll need a disclaimer or something, probably. I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice.

Personally I'd replace "Monopoly" with "Christmas".

Fulfillment companies are usually near ports. Did you already find something in SLC..? I find it hard to believe that a fulfillment company would care what's in the package. They make their money on shipping and storage fees. Are you telling me that, for example, Quartermaster told you no, we won't accept your 1000 units into our warehouse? Or were you adding other conditions like wanting to drive in and pick up your pallets two months later? Because then they're doing a lot of work for no money.

Kickstarter is not a great marketing tool. And I think if you're offering a coupon for something you already have in a warehouse, KS itself might just say no, because you're not funding the creation of anything.

IMHO

evansmind244 wrote:
...I've decided against TGC because my game was almost $52 per unit. I can't think of anyone except hobby gamer's that would pay that price for a game, and I don't think any hobby gamer's will be buying my game...

Personally I think the price point for YOUR game should be around $50 USD. I'm assuming the $52 USD is not the COST for you game... right?! If this is the consumer price ... here's my REAL advice:

Go with a TGC Contract using BOF.

From there if your game is $50 USD and you can LOWER the BULK COST by quite a bit... You don't need to worry about "Tariffs", Fulfillment, Warehousing, or Freight! That's a lot of stuff that can cause you much problems and headaches...

Estimate your game on TGC and then look at BULK. For one thing, TGC gives you 100% of the profit when doing a TGC Contract using BOF. Which means instead of getting 70%, now you get the full 100%.

Secondly you lower the overall COST of manufacturing. Allowing you to have a more "competitive" price point.

NOW what I really wanted to say:

Yes your game is seasonal. But if you use POD, you will not lose money on the venture. Again I see "crazy talk" (if I get 200 units sold, maybe 600 more ...) which is detrimental to really making it in this business.

It's NOT about "hopes & dreams"... In reality IMHO it's about reducing RISK, maximizing profit and lowering the number of players involved in your project (obviously the LESS the better).

And so I want to SLAP you silly ... Because you've gone to LaLa Land again with this idea of using GameLand as your manufacturer and making over 500 units.

You've back down from TGC when it's the most FEASIBLE way to make money and lower your costs and risk. I don't know WHY(?!) perhaps it was the 30% cut ... which TGC does NOT take on Contracts for BOF. They give you the 100% of profit.

Knowing THIS and checking for BULK orders with LOWER Costs to make... I'm sure you could SELL the game at $50 USD. I think it's reasonable!

We should "talk" (more like discuss things AGAIN) because it seems like you've gone from Designing a Successful game to LaLa Land and getting financially invested in something which may be a VERY hard sell.

So let's talk figures and explain to me better your TGC cost structure (one-off production) and then see what 50 or 100 units sold looks like in terms of COST!

I'm not finished with you just quite yet! (LOL)

Here's another ANGLE

Have you built up your "database" or "mail list" of potential buyers??? If no, don't KS just yet. I saw an interesting couple at one of the cons that I was attending. They had a SIMPLE policy:

We need 1,000 e-mails before we KS our game.

I'm asking you the SAME... Do you have 1,000 e-mails from gamers?

If the answer is "NO!" ... Don't KS you will be disappointed... Some people go with the "Dream" mentality. Do this and you will be certainly unhappy with the result.

It's all about REALITY. Make a quality prototype and GO TO AS MANY CONS as you can possibly go to in your local community. If you can't do that... Go to stores and DEMO the game there! You don't need to have instant buyers, just people that give you their e-mail after playing the game for 10-15 minutes.

Do some social media campaigns. Start a Facebook page and see how many "Followers" you can get. Of course we all know "Followers" convert poorly to Backers. Best bet is e-mails of people who like Board Games.

MAR (Headhunter) now Ristora (Hemlock) are all proof that without the proper planning there is no hope in hell of getting funded.

Two things that are important: having sufficient cash flow to make MORE games and lowering the number of players in your production pipeline.

How do I KNOW this??? Because I've self-published and gone with a Publisher. I've lost monies and then I've broken even. I know this business is HARD to make any monies with it. So please don't go stupid and order 1,000 units of your game. You will SERIOUSLY regret it!

Do you have any relatives that can HELP you? Like I know you work on a boat and are not home on weekends. The reason I ask, is IF you can set-up demo days every SUNDAY at different game stores in your local community, that can help boost the popularity of the game and allow you to earn e-mails and a list for when you LAUNCH!

I don't want you to fail. At least you ADVISED us of your plans. Now it's time to DOUBLE-CHECK and see if this is the right course of action!

Regards.

Sorry I was "wrong" with the right intent

questccg wrote:
...Estimate your game on TGC and then look at BULK. For one thing, TGC gives you 100% of the profit when doing a TGC Contract using BOF. Which means instead of getting 70%, now you get the full 100%...

I just clarified with the Good Folks at "The Game Crafter" is that YOU MUST have the monies to PAY an order at COST (with Bulk Order Fulfillment). What this means is all TGC is concerned about is what the price to MAKE your game IN BULK will COST. All the rest of the monies you have gathered from KS is your "profit" or your "take-away"!

The 30/70 split is ONLY on games sold via TGC's normal one-off production. Or multiple copies. But you get a discount for making over 10 games, meaning a lower cost and more profit BUT still subject to the 30/70 split.

A Contract with BOF is the only way that you ONLY pay the COST to MAKE the game and whatever is left over is profit.

ALSO SHIPPING has to be factored into the price, because TGC will CHARGE YOU for the shipping. So you need to ESTIMATE the shipping pricing using the BOF system without actually ordering the games...

Hope that clarifies some things!

More on figures...

Jay got 343 backers and Andrew got 308 backers. Why do I mention this? It's because you are a first time KS creator and you will get about 250 backers. These two campaigns did well because of several other factors such as: well known artist with her own following, a worthy mention by Wil Wheaton, fitting into a Biblical or Christian following.

250 x $50 USD + Shipping = $12,500 + Shipping. If I estimate it at $15 USD x 250 = $3,750. Total goal = $16,250 (estimate).

So maybe your campaign needs to reach $18,000 including all shipping. Again just a "ballpark" figure to work with.

That's what you should be thinking about IRL. Not imagining that you will sell 600+ copies by sheer luck...? I don't want to make any predictions BUT if you look at "HeadHunter" and "Hemlock", they've gotten UNDER 50 backers... Maybe you should consider a WORST-CASE scenario and NOT the Best-Case scenario. You produce 1,000 units and sell only 50. How does that make you feel? Do you feel like you can sell anymore?? What are your venues for KS-ing a game that only got 50 backers???

I'm trying to help you see the possible outcomes... Not just dreaming like you'll KS and by some Miracle people will buy the game. It ain't going to happen... It never happens this way.

Anyhow if you're open to discussing the matter in Private (PM me). Or if you want to talk about in the open just reply to this thread. I'm sure Jason, Stephen and myself will do a good job in making you introspect the outcome of a future KS campaign.

Best.

Remember what KS is all about!

Jay103 wrote:
...Kickstarter is not a great marketing tool. And I think if you're offering a coupon for something you already have in a warehouse, KS itself might just say no, because you're not funding the creation of anything.

Kickstarter is about "Funding a Dream". It's bringing something into existence that otherwise would not have been made. KS is NOT a "pre-order" system and the campaign makes "promises" for delivery but everything is not "absolute". Sh!t happens and there could be delays (Sorry TradeWorlds Backers!) or the financing can be poorly estimated (like with TradeWorlds) and we are barely breaking even with the production and shipping of the game. So be careful.

I get it... You have the monies to pay for the game. Fine. Guess what? So did I! But the learning curve to this industry is hard. My 2nd attempt I will again be again in the RED. So just be aware that IF you are in the BLACK ... It's much better to make a little than lose a lot IMHO. But I too am learning and seeing that it's NOT about "designing a game". It's about leaner production pipeline, the less amount of parties to produce the less risk, going with realistic expectation and focusing on what you need to do to FUND! The broader the appeal, the more likely that you succeed in funding, etc.

It's about understanding what to offer "backers" to wet their appetites and see if you can GROW from a small "core" to a following... etc. But you need to prepare adequately. It's hard too... It's also about "Repeatable Success" (for smaller campaigns not $100,000+ campaigns)

Best!

TGC

First of all, Thank you for your time.

-TGC: MSRP=$55.99
1=$50.35
50 x $44.52 = $2,226
500 x $36.42 =$18,210
1000 x $35.82 =$35,820

I will not retail Holiday Fever for $50. You're talking $65 for people on the east coast to get the game with shipping costs. With Gameland 1000 units = $6.76 per unit x5 (to get retail) and I get $33.80. and my profit would be $19 including shipping, fulfillment etc.... I will sell the game this year for $25. The reason is that I'm a start up, and offering my product for a great deal is one of my marketing strategies this year. $25 x $14.00 shipping is still $39.00 and a profit of $10.20 per unit sold. IMHO $25 is the target price for my target audience. I don't believe I can sell this game for 35-45- or 50 dollars.

I will build up my email list, and I will keep you updated on how that goes. Right now I haven't been able to start....but I have my sister who was the personal assistant of an "A" list actor run my social media campaign. She's good to say the least.

KS- is just an idea, which I haven't really taken seriously.

I am going to get booths at 2 very big Christmas time events in my local area's Jackson Hole Wyoming and Sun Valley Idaho. I've got a well connected friend who is certain my product would be perfect for both events, and reasonably sell 25 games at each even.

K got to run for now. I'll update more soon.

questccg wrote:Jay got 343

questccg wrote:
Jay got 343 backers and Andrew got 308 backers. Why do I mention this? It's because you are a first time KS creator and you will get about 250 backers. These two campaigns did well because of several other factors such as: well known artist with her own following, a worthy mention by Wil Wheaton, fitting into a Biblical or Christian following.

I started with:

* The ability to post directly to thousands of people (probably tens of thousands, but about 2000 people who were patreon supporters) who read a comic website featuring my artist's art.
* a 600-person mailing list
* I think 150 facebook followers

(with some overlap I assume.. some people on the mailing list were also website readers, for example)

That would've got me to about 250 in the end, barely making my goal. I hit 350 because of Wil Wheaton's tweet about it with a week to go.

I see!

evansmind244 wrote:
With Gameland 1000 units = $6.76 per unit x5 (to get retail) and I get $33.80

While that's a pretty good price, remember Freight is about $3.00 per unit. So it's $9.76 not $6.76. Next $25 USD + Shipping??? That means about $15 USD for shipping... Therefore $40 USD??

Quote:
TGC: MSRP=$55.99
1=$50.35
50 x $44.52 = $2,226
500 x $36.42 =$18,210
1000 x $35.82 =$35,820

All I wanted to know is BULK COST for 1, 10, 50 and 100. The rest doesn't matter really. Not 500 or 1,000 those are not realistic goals. This is again for "The Game Crafter" (TGC).

That's a start... Don't worry, we know you're a Smart Guy... I'm just curious to see why such a STARK difference. What I have observed is that TGC is rather competitive when you REACH 100 units.

Anyhow if you have the time, please reply!

evansmind244 wrote:With

evansmind244 wrote:
With Gameland 1000 units = $6.76 per unit

Does that include setup fees? These usually show up separately.

Do you need QA inspection of the boxes (if so, I can recommend a good firm)? Cost me $299.

Do you need lab toxicity testing? I think that was $200 but I don't recall.

Did you allow... I'll say $2500 to get the boxes to a US port? Might be $4000?

Just don't forget.

Quote:
x5 (to get retail) and I get $33.80. and my profit would be $19 including shipping, fulfillment etc.... I will sell the game this year for $25.

If you're saying you'll sell (or kickstart) for $25 plus shipping, I'll just tell you that's a lot tighter than you may think. I found it helpful to just figure out total outlay. I'm going to guess yours will be around $11-12k. You'll have to sell over 500 boxes to cover that..

The "x5 is retail price" is based on the *landed* COGS, which is the large number I just gave you, not the $6.75 of the base quote you have. That's why indie board games are so expensive.

Quote:
The reason is that I'm a start up, and offering my product for a great deal is one of my marketing strategies this year. $25 x $14.00 shipping is still $39.00 and a profit of $10.20 per unit sold. IMHO $25 is the target price for my target audience. I don't believe I can sell this game for 35-45- or 50 dollars.

That's more of a sales strategy than a marketing strategy, but .. okay. However, I don't see how you can sell this for $25 without taking a very large risk of losing money. That might be okay with you.

Quote:
KS- is just an idea, which I haven't really taken seriously.

"Kickstarter" wrote:
Projects must create something to share with others.

Kickstarter can be used to create all sorts of things: art and gadgets, events and spaces, ideas and experiences. But every project needs a plan for creating something and sharing it with the world. At some point, the creator should be able to say: “It’s finished. Here’s what we created. Enjoy!”

Jay, I like your idea to swap

Jay, I like your idea to swap Monopoly with Christmas. Thank you. I just never heard back from Quartermaster, and Funagain never emailed me back after sending them the Game rules??? I'm a black sheep!! or at least I've made myself feel that way.

Quest TGC prices:
10 = 49.73
50 = 44.52
100 = 38.01

Wow I didn't realize that its $3 a unit for Freight Forwarding. I've got quotes coming soon. That would put my retail into the $30 realm and still need over 700 units sold until I break even. Dang I'm glad to know you guys!!

I don't plan to pay for shipping, despite my misstatement above. From what I've heard that is not a good idea.

I don't want to lose money on my game, and yes your right with your numbers that I would lose money. Looks like I may be closer to $30 to break even.

I am taking a 3 year approach with my business plan.
-My best case is to sell 250 games. Of course that is hard to swallow....but I've read enough blogs to realize that is what's going to happen if I'm lucky.

-Next year, I'll be in the 300 realm assuming I can get a few people to like my game, and maybe even post on social media. If that's the case then I will have some great marketing material, and prepare for year 3 where I will hopefully sell out of the first print run by selling 450 games!!

I can afford to invest the 10-11k landed cost to give my GREAT IDEA a possibility of success over the next 3 years. TGC just way too expensive. I would feel like I fail because of Price alone.
I believe that in order to reach my target audience I need to give them an awesome product, at an even better deal. I don't want to make money on this game until it's determined that I've built a community and a platform that can actually be successful in the long term. Built Trust with my customers.

I can't look at my game like an Indy game or Hobby Game. Its a mass market game marketed to people who play Monopoly. Monopoly costs $20, and people in that market don't care that my landed cost is much higher with lower print runs!! Hopefully by year 4-5-6 I can start to make some real money on the game!!!

What else do I need to realize?

There's a reason things sell

There's a reason things sell for $29.95 :)

Quote:I can't look at my game

Quote:
I can't look at my game like an Indy game or Hobby Game. Its a mass market game marketed to people who play Monopoly.

I don't think that's true.

Hasbro makes mass market games, first of all. Not you or me :). Maybe you think it has broad appeal, but that doesn't really put you into the mass market. Hasbro games are made 10k at a time, I'm sure, and what costs you $6.75 + $2-4/unit to ship I'm sure costs them $2.10 + $0.65/unit to ship.. Full containers and all that. You can't compete on that basis. You may not be hobby, but by definition you're indy.

Second, "people who play Monopoly" is very hard to target, and that's not your market imho. This is a Christmas game first and foremost, so I suspect your market is "people who have strong family Christmas traditions." You want this game to become one of those traditions.

To put it another way, if you find one of those people, they can easily learn to play your game and enjoy it, even if they're normally not "board game people". However, if you start with someone in the "people who play Monopoly" demographic, you'd need to instill in them and their family the desire to start a strong family Christmas tradition. That's not exactly likely.

The good news is that it's much easier to target the Christian subset I laid out rather than the Monopoly-player subset (though, Hallmark Channel movies aside, I think that demographic is smaller than you probably think it is)

Jay

Through the years of developing this game I have asked a few questions to try and figure out if my target market will be people who play Monopoly. I fit my target market!! This is also a reason I kept the board looking like Monopoly instead of a Circle or Octagon which was my original idea.

1. Do you play board games?
2. Which ones?
3. When?

If they answer, "Yes, I play Monopoly", they almost always say they play during the Holidays when family is together. This is the reason why I believe they are my target market. In fact several people I know, play Monopoly as a Family Tradition during the Holidays.

People who answer with other board games also usually say they play mostly around Christmas time. I also believe that people like me who grew up (80's-90's) playing Monopoly on family night....are all young families now and looking to bring some nostalgia back from their childhood. I hope Holiday Fever will fit that nostalgia with a new Christmas Themed Roll and Move game. Assuming I can market and NOT QUIT, oh and that people actually think my game is fun.......

I'm a member of the Church of Jesus Christ and if I'm completely honest I see this as a game marketed directly to my fellow members. We love Christmas time, we love Family Night, and we love games, love family traditions that create time together as a family....so I agree the Christian subset is my most hopeful audience.

Point well taken on the Mass Market thing!!!

I appreciate your time Jay!! Thank You.

First Freight FWD quote

Freight for OTX Logistics just came in. From China to SLC is $1,510. Which was a nice surprise after Jay saying it could be 4K!! Whew. I'll continue to update as the quotes come in. I'm also going to get quotes for East coast too!!

I have to say I have already got in touch with Quartermaster logistics and they are AWESOME!!! Great pricing for pick and pack. I can't wait to hear from them on the Freight FWD quote.

Thanks Jay!!

evansmind244 wrote:Freight

evansmind244 wrote:
Freight for OTX Logistics just came in. From China to SLC is $1,510. Which was a nice surprise after Jay saying it could be 4K!! Whew. I'll continue to update as the quotes come in. I'm also going to get quotes for East coast too!!

I have to say I have already got in touch with Quartermaster logistics and they are AWESOME!!! Great pricing for pick and pack. I can't wait to hear from them on the Freight FWD quote.

Thanks Jay!!


That's great news! I don't know how big your game is, of course. Mine took up three pallets of space, which is what they charge based on, and was heading to an east cost port. So I'm very glad to hear that yours will be less!

Fulfillment

So if Quartermaster charges a flat rate for Pick and Pack and shipping can you guys explain to me how it works with customers paying for Shipping? Also which is the best Shopping cart to use on my website? Can you guys help direct me in the right direction for direct selling from my website etc? Do I use Paypal, Bitcoin, Libra??? hahah

evansmind244 wrote:Through

evansmind244 wrote:
Through the years of developing this game I have asked a few questions to try and figure out if my target market will be people who play Monopoly. I fit my target market!!

But.. many millions of people play Monopoly. I'll bet a pet food company could say they're targeting people who play Monopoly and do fine :)

Quote:
If they answer, "Yes, I play Monopoly", they almost always say they play during the Holidays when family is together. This is the reason why I believe they are my target market. In fact several people I know, play Monopoly as a Family Tradition during the Holidays.

I think you maaaay have a skewed sample.

Quote:
I'm a member of the Church of Jesus Christ and if I'm completely honest I see this as a game marketed directly to my fellow members. We love Christmas time, we love Family Night, and we love games, love family traditions that create time together as a family....so I agree the Christian subset is my most hopeful audience.

Given that you were talking about SLC, Utah, I was kind of making some unvoiced assumptions there :)

I think that's exactly your best way to market it. Aka "people with strong family Christmas traditions" :p

Thanks for the info... You are RIGHT!

evansmind244 wrote:
Quest TGC prices:
10 = 49.73
50 = 44.52
100 = 38.01

Seems to me that 100 Backers @ $38.01 is attractive for the $40.00 USD + Shipping. And remember it's in the USA and lower because of TGCs own negotiated rates. So shipping may be LESS than $15.00 USD in the USA.

Quote:
I don't plan to pay for shipping, despite my misstatement above. From what I've heard that is not a good idea.

Don't it will eat up all your profit. That was one of the mistakes we did with TradeWorlds. You figure it's like $5 bucks why not offer it FREE. Then when you realize it's closer to $15 USD you are like: "Oh fnck, what did we do!" All our monies are tied up in shipping costs.

Quote:
I don't want to lose money on my game, and yes your right with your numbers that I would lose money. Looks like I may be closer to $30 to break even.

I have some thoughts on this. Give me a minute to get my thoughts together.

Quote:
TGC just way too expensive. I would feel like I fail because of Price alone.

So if you price it a bit... For 100+ backers you can offer the game at $40 USD + Shipping. You wouldn't make any money, but at the same time you would not LOSE any either. The shipping via TGC could be lower than your own shipping/fulfillment.

You can check the price of one game shipping. All you do is ADD the item to the cart, proceed to "Check-out" and choose an Address in the USA (like your home) and it will tell you the price of shipping. There is a whole process of importing addresses and getting the shipping costs for a whole bunch of locations worldwide with TGC.

Quote:
What else do I need to realize?

You are RIGHT! In this case, TGC doesn't offer you sufficient margins. Even though the 100+ price point is UNDER $40 USD ... It is still a bit high (I must admit it). If you could have knock-ed off another $5.00 and gotten the price around $35 USD ... Maybe you could make the $5.00+ but the price point would still be $40 USD (allowing you some margins).

But again you are still RIGHT! It's very pricey... $30 USD + Shipping is a much more reasonable price. I too have been working closely with TGC and have a much more reasonable price point mostly because of the break on cards per sheet. Offering twice the amount of cards is only a couple bucks more. But production costs are over the $25k USD marker... So a lot of the monies get tied up in "production" costs. And I could probably not afford a 2nd print run (well again it depends on volume). So in any event, I would NEED to KS an "expansion" if things go well.

There doesn't seem to be any "easy road to Rome" so-to-speak. But in my case the project and pricing is feasible. In yours, not so much.

To me (in your case) "breaking-even" with the COST structure is not at all interesting. I know we want our games out there... And we spend countless hours working on them and don't always see a return in terms of profits... But PRICING something AT COST... Is not an alternative.

Sorry TGC doesn't work out for you. I, personally, would like to get something going with them and am looking out for my next project to be made and shipped by them.

Cheers Evan!

Quick hits(snort) Vision, audience, perspective.

1. (Bears repeating) We're seeing something special here: this is: "Damn the torpedoes[sorry, Evan, probably the wrong expression given...], I have a vision: I am seeking to create a new tradition," with the follow-through of going through the rigors of this forum and paying for the math gurus.

[That's in fact, what attracted me to this project, given I am so, so, so far away from the audience in that vision. Speaking of which...]

2. The audience is there as the vision resonates, but the extra challenge is finding those who appreciate the vision given its loudest proponents are not just loud but vitriolic. This is for people who may cringe at "Happy Holidays", but get no alpha crusader joy from making Starbucks employees yell out "Merry Christmas." (And Evan, if asked why not "Christmas Fever", remember that fevers are associated with disease. "War on Christmas" is distasteful too.)

I have a vision of this sold at CPAC, and other shows as the gentle alternative to all the other merchandise. Something for the anti-Starbucks blowhards to get for the grandfolk.

3. [Insert 10,000 words on the strengths of Monopoly--at least 8,000 added them purely out of frustration at those who feel they have to take shots at the game whenever it's mentioned] Evan, your game has its strengths, far fewer weaknesses. My advice is that you and your representatives don't use the name in your initial presentation to folk, but if they ask, "It plays like Monopoly" [I'll work on a better response] is a perfectly acceptable answer.

4. As for Christian audiences [final s underlined, capitalized, and in bold], you may wish to reach out to Andrew Lowen of https://deliverancethegame.com/. His faith, knowledge are deep, and he's working on a dungeon crawl that's aimed at the hardcore gamer, but with a deeply researched religious aspect. Not preachy at all, and certainly not for those who found C.S. Lewis' Narnia too mystical. It's a balancing act but he's confident of his space and vision, and of more relevance, mixes in a great deal of marketing talk with his design blogs, videos, and playtest events which he hosts. Ask for links.

Quick? Snort indeed.
Hop and pax. And apostrophe training. Be better.

Break Even Philosophy

Actual numbers for my situation. I'm quoting Quartermaster + OTX. 1000 units 10x10x3" = 3 pallets

Receiving: $30
Storage: $1,620 ($15 pallet x 3 = $45 month x 12 months x 3 years)
FOB from OTX: $1,528 (interesting more expensive than sending to SLC Utah)
1000 Unit Game: $6,780 (500 units would be $4,635 or $9.27 per unit.)
Total: $9,958 landed cost = $9.96 per game. Pretty good including 3 years of storage at QM!!
Pick/Pack/Ship: $13.10 (estimating for a 5lb finished box) FedEx smart post.

I am still looking good for a Retail price of $25

The Numbers for fulfillment in SLC are more difficult to determine so I'm waiting on a reply to my questions... but at this point QM would be hard to beat with no monthly minimum or other fees. Storing 3 pallets there all year is less than I pay for the Adobe suite annually.

How do I determine what to charge a customer for Shipping with QM's flat rate of 13.10? What is the actual shipping price? Yes I'll ask them directly.

Can any one link some good resources to setting up my website for shopping cart, and preparing to sell my game?

evansmind244 wrote:Actual

evansmind244 wrote:
Actual numbers for my situation. I'm quoting Quartermaster + OTX. 1000 units 10x10x3" = 3 pallets

Receiving: $30
Storage: $1,620 ($15 pallet x 3 = $45 month x 12 months x 3 years)


If you still have 3 pallets in storage after 3 years, you'll definitely want to re-examine your situation :/

Quote:
FOB from OTX: $1,528 (interesting more expensive than sending to SLC Utah)

Quartermaster is in Florida, so the boat is going through the Panama canal and all that. Also, note that prices vary by season. I shipped out in mid-November and prices were higher then.

Quote:
1000 Unit Game: $6,780 (500 units would be $4,635 or $9.27 per unit.)

Did you really include all the extra costs? I'd at least round that sucker up to $7500. For instance, you should have SOME way of validating that they printed everything correctly before the pallets get on the boat. A correct proof does not mean it's a correct box. I had a printing error that had to be fixed, and if the boxes were in the US it would've been effectively impossible, rather than a 2-week delay that they didn't charge me for.

Quote:
Pick/Pack/Ship: $13.10 (estimating for a 5lb finished box) FedEx smart post.

I don't remember your component list, but my game has a huge solid block of cardboard tiles (8" x 10" x 1.5") and weighs 4 lbs. I suspect you may be below 5 lbs unless you already tested it.

Quote:
The Numbers for fulfillment in SLC are more difficult to determine so I'm waiting on a reply to my questions... but at this point QM would be hard to beat with no monthly minimum or other fees. Storing 3 pallets there all year is less than I pay for the Adobe suite annually.

They're a bit weirdly primitive (I have to email orders in), but I like them a lot.

Quote:
How do I determine what to charge a customer for Shipping with QM's flat rate of 13.10? What is the actual shipping price? Yes I'll ask them directly.

Charge $13.10. Or $13. Or $14. One of the things I liked about QML is that it was the same rate anywhere in the country, which simplifies things.

Quote:
Can any one link some good resources to setting up my website for shopping cart, and preparing to sell my game?

Take a look at my site if you like, http://www.heroesandtreasure.com . It's obviously made by someone with no graphic design sense, but look at the store part. I found godaddy to be the best deal I could get on something I could easily use. Don't sign up without a coupon of some sort. I think 40% may be generally available.. not positive. I think I actually did the setup through their chat.

Ah I see your point now!

evansmind244 wrote:
1000 Unit Game: $6,780 (500 units would be $4,635 or $9.27 per unit.)

Andrew Harmon (Portal and Prophets) made 500 units with Bang Wee and was happy to get 300+ backers and has been liquidating his stock on Amazon.com. But his game has a "Christianity/Biblical" theme which attracts Christian buyers. Even if it's a sub-set of the Gamer community, it seems to be working for Andrew.

$6.78 vs. $9.27 is a big difference. I can SEE why you want to make 1,000 units. The major problem is liquidating the stock and warehousing fees. Like you said it's 3 palets so about 300 units per palet.

IDK ... I have no "advice" for you. You seem to be doing okay on your own.

1,000 units is A LOT to liquidate. Just under 200 units for Andrew is realistic. But like you said, "Your game is not a Hobby Gamer game." But KS is about "Hobby Gamers", so I don't see your game doing very well on KS.

Well Evan, you've proven with your numbers WHY(?) you are pursuing this course of action. And it all makes sense to me. So hoping things go "smoothly".

Cheers!

War on Christmas

Mosker wrote:
1. (Bears repeating) We're seeing something special here: this is: "Damn the torpedoes[sorry, Evan, probably the wrong expression given...], I have a vision: I am seeking to create a new tradition," with the follow-through of going through the rigors of this forum and paying for the math gurus.

[That's in fact, what attracted me to this project, given I am so, so, so far away from the audience in that vision. Speaking of which...]

2. The audience is there as the vision resonates, but the extra challenge is finding those who appreciate the vision given its loudest proponents are not just loud but vitriolic. This is for people who may cringe at "Happy Holidays", but get no alpha crusader joy from making Starbucks employees yell out "Merry Christmas." (And Evan, if asked why not "Christmas Fever", remember that fevers are associated with disease. "War on Christmas" is distasteful too.)

I have a vision of this sold at CPAC, and other shows as the gentle alternative to all the other merchandise. Something for the anti-Starbucks blowhards to get for the grandfolk.

3. [Insert 10,000 words on the strengths of Monopoly--at least 8,000 added them purely out of frustration at those who feel they have to take shots at the game whenever it's mentioned] Evan, your game has its strengths, far fewer weaknesses. My advice is that you and your representatives don't use the name in your initial presentation to folk, but if they ask, "It plays like Monopoly" [I'll work on a better response] is a perfectly acceptable answer.

4. As for Christian audiences [final s underlined, capitalized, and in bold], you may wish to reach out to Andrew Lowen of https://deliverancethegame.com/. His faith, knowledge are deep, and he's working on a dungeon crawl that's aimed at the hardcore gamer, but with a deeply researched religious aspect. Not preachy at all, and certainly not for those who found C.S. Lewis' Narnia too mystical. It's a balancing act but he's confident of his space and vision, and of more relevance, mixes in a great deal of marketing talk with his design blogs, videos, and playtest events which he hosts. Ask for links.

Quick? Snort indeed.
Hop and pax. And apostrophe training. Be better.

Yes...I'm about to head through the famous "Straits of Hormuz" and Torpedo's are definitely on my mind. Not to worry, we've got 'back up' this time!! Iran please don't torpedo me!

You just put a frame on the Who and Why of this game. I think you understand the overall point of my game better than I do. Do you write books????

I like that, "it plays like Monopoly". Simple, easy, and doesn't beg to explain further. It plays like monopoly, but you'll love the aspect where you create a family journal..... and so on.

As for CPAC...I've got friends who want me to get with Glenn Beck because apparently he helps Military Veteran's with their business ventures. I should have given a copy of Holiday Fever to Paul Ryan last year when I taught him some Shooting skills!!!

Thank you for the link, and for your support Mosker!! You have helped me a great deal over the years!! Hop on brother!!

Monopoly

deleted

Jay103 wrote: Do you need QA

Jay103 wrote:
Do you need QA inspection of the boxes (if so, I can recommend a good firm)? Cost me $299.

Do you need lab toxicity testing? I think that was $200 but I don't recall.


I will look into this. Would the Manufacture provide this? Would the Freight forwarder provide the QA inspection?

Quote:

Did you really include all the extra costs? I'd at least round that sucker up to $7500. For instance, you should have SOME way of validating that they printed everything correctly before the pallets get on the boat. A correct proof does not mean it's a correct box. I had a printing error that had to be fixed, and if the boxes were in the US it would've been effectively impossible, rather than a 2-week delay that they didn't charge me for.

So far I am not aware of the extra cost but I am going to continue to update here with every single cost etc.... just to try and contribute something useful to BGDF.

Quote:

I don't remember your component list, but my game has a huge solid block of cardboard tiles (8" x 10" x 1.5") and weighs 4 lbs. I suspect you may be below 5 lbs unless you already tested it.

I would be stoked to be in the 3lb or 4lb realm. 4lbs is $12.32 and 3lb is $11.22. My order from TGC was 51 ounces.

I will look into Godaddy. I can't access your website for some stupid security reason. The ships security software is acting strange. I can't get on several fulfillment sites either. Did you design your own website of did you have someone build it for you?

questccg wrote:evansmind244

questccg wrote:
evansmind244 wrote:
1000 Unit Game: $6,780 (500 units would be $4,635 or $9.27 per unit.)

Andrew Harmon (Portal and Prophets) made 500 units with Bang Wee and was happy to get 300+ backers and has been liquidating his stock on Amazon.com. But his game has a "Christianity/Biblical" theme which attracts Christian buyers. Even if it's a sub-set of the Gamer community, it seems to be working for Andrew.

$6.78 vs. $9.27 is a big difference. I can SEE why you want to make 1,000 units. The major problem is liquidating the stock and warehousing fees. Like you said it's 3 palets so about 300 units per palet.

IDK ... I have no "advice" for you. You seem to be doing okay on your own.

1,000 units is A LOT to liquidate. Just under 200 units for Andrew is realistic. But like you said, "Your game is not a Hobby Gamer game." But KS is about "Hobby Gamers", so I don't see your game doing very well on KS.

Well Evan, you've proven with your numbers WHY(?) you are pursuing this course of action. And it all makes sense to me. So hoping things go "smoothly".

Cheers!

You've given me a ton of great advice. Thank you. I definitely see that I could be making a mistake by ordering too much stock, but I have been blessed with the ability to recover quickly in the worst case, and in the best case it would have been wise. I know I've got BGDF to help me along the way!!

I on the other hand am terrified and excited now that real money is going into this. I'm really not in a position to be doing any of this.... I'm not particularly smart, and have a hard time listening to sound advice!! But I got this vision in my head, that gives me hope and motivation to keep learning and keep moving forward.

evansmind244 wrote:Jay103

evansmind244 wrote:
Jay103 wrote:
Do you need QA inspection of the boxes (if so, I can recommend a good firm)? Cost me $299.

Do you need lab toxicity testing? I think that was $200 but I don't recall.


I will look into this. Would the Manufacture provide this? Would the Freight forwarder provide the QA inspection?

Yes on the lab testing, and no on the QA. Certainly not the freight forwarder.

I had a third party do it.. they send someone in on the day that everything is done, and they pull a certain number of boxes off the line and open them and inspect them to see if they match your requirements (you can send them PDFs and all that, in addition to the general component list). I got a big report with like 100 photos of the manufacturing and boxes and every page of the manual, etc. That's how I noticed that there was an error on one page.. it was in one of the photos, even though my proofs were fine.

I was worried that the manufacturer would be miffed about it, but they were happy to have them there.. said they'd rather fix things immediately instead of once it was too late.

Quote:
I will look into Godaddy. I can't access your website for some stupid security reason. The ships security software is acting strange. I can't get on several fulfillment sites either. Did you design your own website of did you have someone build it for you?

That's too bad, but no hurry :)

I "designed" it myself. I don't know web developers I could easily tap, and my artist is an artist.

You're doing a "bang-up" job so far!

evansmind244 wrote:
...I on the other hand am terrified and excited now that real money is going into this. I'm really not in a position to be doing any of this...

OTX and QML are both used by Jamey. So you can't go wrong with those two.

You're in it "deeper" than I want to (personally). I don't want to worry about damage to Freight or pay for warehousing merchandise, etc. So I'm working on a different path which luckily for me is "possible"! I'm not that ready to get deep into the "trenches" and have to deal with some many external parties.

Just not what I want to take on... right now.

But you seem to be doing pretty good. My only concern is "re-coup-ing" the monies spent on making the game. Let's assume that your price point is $30 USD, that's to my knowledge about 333 copies sold (and you are even). Very do-able... Tough but with some good help along from the various sources you mentioned that could "spread the word". Sounds ok.

Keep on this realistic track and you'll probably succeed!

Path to Success: Year 1 November sell 200 units. Year 2 November sell 150 units. And you break even... I'm not suggesting how you should go about those sales, those are just some "numbers" to shoot for (in the two years) and empty 1 palet. Afterwards, it's really up to you... I just see these as "reasonable" numbers.

Some thing I don't know if anybody has tried

Consider this a way to BOOST sales (maybe) in Year 1:

Write-up a Press Release for the Newspapers, Radio Stations and TV News in your area (Salt Lake City) ... Because the AVERAGE "reader", "listener" and "viewer" are probably your CORE buyer!

Hold a Press Conference at a Hotel, pay for the Morning Meal (meaning that all press who attend can have a paid for meal) when you are ready to SELL the game...

I looked into this for Quest Adventure Cards(tm). But because of the fact that I was NEW to the game design scene, I did not pursue this "angle".

But IF you get a mention on the Radio, in a couple Newspapers and maybe on Television ... Man, that could be real awesome! Especially like I said because your product has MASS APPEAL to a "non-gamer" crowd.

It's not too expensive to pay for the meals and the renting of a hall in a Hotel for the Press Conference. I think like $500 (maybe less expensive in the USA...) But the potential for PUBLICITY and getting in direct contact with your DEMOGRAPHIC is real important!

Note #1: When I looked into this for Quest AC, they walked me through the process: it's a buffet where each person can eat what they choose from what is available from a pre-arranged menu... Usually Bacon and Scrambled Eggs, Orange Jus or Coffee, Pancakes with syrup, Morning Sausages, Toast, Bagels and Creme cheese, etc.

The key for this to SUCCEED is to be held BEFORE WORK: 7:00 - 8:00 AM.

And the venue might be a Hotel downtown close to the workplaces of the Press Agents because most offices are downtown. Usually it opens at 7:00 AM and the press can have their meals at the tables arranged for them and then about 7:30 AM, you announce the Press Conference begins, talk about the game, the journey and after open up the room to answer questions from the Press.

Simple but effective... I think this FORMAT could help you a lot in terms of getting the WORD "out-there". Have REAL "Business cards" with you, put them on the tables before the Press Conference... Have your name, an e-mail and an online address for BUYING the game. You want them to have your coordinates so that they can include that information (in the Newspapers for example)...

Note #2: And what you do is release a Press Release a few days earlier (before the Press Conference) stating the date, place, time and hour in addition to the complimentary buffet breakfast as being part of the venue. This is how the Press knows when and where to be in order to get more information concerning your "go-live"!

And they see you're not "cheap" in that you offer them a complimentary meal ... sometimes people don't have the time to cook a good and proper breakfast. This is one way to encourage people to attend and get a great start to the selling of "Holiday Fever".

Note #3: Use ONE table to layout the game so that the camera men can take pictures! Your bright and colorful board should be something real neat to capture in photo.

Note #4: About the PRICE (I said $500). Well in my case that was $500 CAD. So if I convert this to US dollars, it should be $375 USD. So between $300 to $400 USD. Probably on the lower end because food is much more affordable in the USA. Anyhow this is how the Hotel Manager told me about previous Press Conferences they had and what WORKS and what doesn't. She says you'd be amazed at how many people will show up!

QA

Jay103 wrote:

I had a third party do it.. they send someone in on the day that everything is done, and they pull a certain number of boxes off the line and open them and inspect them to see if they match your requirements (you can send them PDFs and all that, in addition to the general component list). I got a big report with like 100 photos of the manufacturing and boxes and every page of the manual, etc. That's how I noticed that there was an error on one page.. it was in one of the photos, even though my proofs were fine.

Gameland said they have their own Professional QA person that will send me pictures of the finished game to ensure everything is there. They also said it would be fine to use an outside QA person.

Gameland didn't mention a toxicity test. Is that necessary? I've got the "warning choking hazard" on the box. Other than that they have no other fees. If I go with QM and OTX for shipping and fulfillment I think I'm getting a very close Landed cost number. Thanks for the help.

Make sure you use the correct

Make sure you use the correct legal warning msg on the box.

You need "Printed in China" on anything printed in China (box, manual). I was also told that you need the address of the manufacturer on the box.. probably check with GameLand to see if that's true.

questccg wrote:Consider this

questccg wrote:
Consider this a way to BOOST sales (maybe) in Year 1:

Write-up a Press Release for the Newspapers, Radio Stations and TV News in your area (Salt Lake City) ... Because the AVERAGE "reader", "listener" and "viewer" are probably your CORE buyer!

Hold a Press Conference at a Hotel, pay for the Morning Meal (meaning that all press who attend can have a paid for meal) when you are ready to SELL the game...

I looked into this for Quest Adventure Cards(tm). But because of the fact that I was NEW to the game design scene, I did not pursue this "angle".

But IF you get a mention on the Radio, in a couple Newspapers and maybe on Television ... Man, that could be real awesome! Especially like I said because your product has MASS APPEAL to a "non-gamer" crowd.

It's not too expensive to pay for the meals and the renting of a hall in a Hotel for the Press Conference. I think like $500 (maybe less expensive in the USA...) But the potential for PUBLICITY and getting in direct contact with your DEMOGRAPHIC is real important!

Note #1: When I looked into this for Quest AC, they walked me through the process: it's a buffet where each person can eat what they choose from what is available from a pre-arranged menu... Usually Bacon and Scrambled Eggs, Orange Jus or Coffee, Pancakes with syrup, Morning Sausages, Toast, Bagels and Creme cheese, etc.

The key for this to SUCCEED is to be held BEFORE WORK: 7:00 - 8:00 AM.

And the venue might be a Hotel downtown close to the workplaces of the Press Agents because most offices are downtown. Usually it opens at 7:00 AM and the press can have their meals at the tables arranged for them and then about 7:30 AM, you announce the Press Conference begins, talk about the game, the journey and after open up the room to answer questions from the Press.

Simple but effective... I think this FORMAT could help you a lot in terms of getting the WORD "out-there". Have REAL "Business cards" with you, put them on the tables before the Press Conference... Have your name, an e-mail and an online address for BUYING the game. You want them to have your coordinates so that they can include that information (in the Newspapers for example)...

Note #2: And what you do is release a Press Release a few days earlier (before the Press Conference) stating the date, place, time and hour in addition to the complimentary buffet breakfast as being part of the venue. This is how the Press knows when and where to be in order to get more information concerning your "go-live"!

And they see you're not "cheap" in that you offer them a complimentary meal ... sometimes people don't have the time to cook a good and proper breakfast. This is one way to encourage people to attend and get a great start to the selling of "Holiday Fever".

Note #3: Use ONE table to layout the game so that the camera men can take pictures! Your bright and colorful board should be something real neat to capture in photo.

Note #4: About the PRICE (I said $500). Well in my case that was $500 CAD. So if I convert this to US dollars, it should be $375 USD. So between $300 to $400 USD. Probably on the lower end because food is much more affordable in the USA. Anyhow this is how the Hotel Manager told me about previous Press Conferences they had and what WORKS and what doesn't. She says you'd be amazed at how many people will show up!

Quest, this Angle is brilliant advice. Thank you for sharing. I'm definitely going to do just that. I've even got an Uncle that works in the media!! Now you got me thinking I could sell 300 games this year!!!

Definitely got to get a business card. Should have asked my Graphic Designer to do that as part of our original contract!!

No worries I understand your challenge...

evansmind244 wrote:
Now you got me thinking I could sell 300 games this year!!!

Yes with some local publicity, you may get more sales. And because media is syndicated, who knows how FAR your game news may go. It could get broadcasted across the USA (in the best possible scenario). The daily news is usually Local and then National. So the odds of being on Local news is very high... And that's good because locally you'll want people to BUY the game since it's "Designer" lives in SLC.

Quote:
Definitely got to get a business card. Should have asked my Graphic Designer to do that as part of our original contract!!

Yes this too is very important. The GA should offer you a .PSD (Photoshop) drawing with ALL Fonts used to make the business card. This way you can EDIT the information (if necessary).

Getting back to sales, yeah ... 300 could be possible if you get some local media coverage. And maybe some syndication could maybe get you more if multiple papers cover your Press Conference and the story becomes interesting to MORE than local media.

Anyway it is something to think about and determine if you want to try it. If you already have someone you know in News/Media ... Well then he/she may be able to HELP you write-up the Press Release... Such that it attracts the local press!

There are always ways to TRY and see how well they work. Is it going to be effective? Not 100% sure... But people who READ newspapers and watch local TV News ... Are the "mass market" we are talking about for your game. So maybe you would get some more sales too.

Cheers!

evansmind244 wrote:questccg

evansmind244 wrote:

Quest, this Angle is brilliant advice. Thank you for sharing. I'm definitely going to do just that. I've even got an Uncle that works in the media!! Now you got me thinking I could sell 300 games this year!!!

Definitely got to get a business card. Should have asked my Graphic Designer to do that as part of our original contract!!


Don't get too far ahead of yourself, but by all means let us know how it goes.

An easier version of this may be to find a local reporter to do one local story and see how that works out.

I got a bunch of business cards printed up by Staples for.. hmm.. not very much money. Can either use a built in designer program iirc, or just upload your own images. I did a whole box with my full game logo on one side and my company logo, a QR code for my website, and the name of my website on the other. No name or email or anything.. just for people who might be interested in checking out my website.

Not true unless you already know someone

Jay103 wrote:
...An easier version of this may be to find a local reporter to do one local story and see how that works out...

Actually it's much harder to find and CONVINCE one local reporter to do a local story. WHY? Because "Press Releases" and "Press Conferences" are a STANDARD way to reach out to the Associated Press. Like I said, most press agents will be local people and that's fine.

About syndication, that I'm not sure... I don't know how it works, what stories get chosen to be printed in other locales (other states for example).

It's like getting a car fixed: you go to a mechanic. Talking to the press, for the most part, should be on neutral grounds (the reporter is not going to go to your home to see if there is a POSSIBLE story to write) and in a venue that is designed to elicit the best possible outcome.

But I never did it... I was just advised on HOW to do it... And that's in my own "neck-of-the-woods" (Up in Montreal).

First Hidden Charge

I asked about having a plastic compartment that fits all the cards, tokens etc.....which is not included in my previous quote. That's $0.75 a set, which I'm assuming that's per game. So that would bring cost to $7.53 per unit, and $10.71 landed.

-Do I need to have this plastic sleeve? Could I go with rubber bands or bags?
-The lady helping with Gameland, if I'm understanding her correctly, is asking me to pay the entire cost to manufacture up front because of bank charges. What do you guys think?

evansmind244 wrote:I asked

evansmind244 wrote:
I asked about having a plastic compartment that fits all the cards, tokens etc.....which is not included in my previous quote. That's $0.75 a set, which I'm assuming that's per game. So that would bring cost to $7.53 per unit, and $10.71 landed.

-Do I need to have this plastic sleeve? Could I go with rubber bands or bags?
-The lady helping with Gameland, if I'm understanding her correctly, is asking me to pay the entire cost to manufacture up front because of bank charges. What do you guys think?


All my stuff came in little ziplock bags even though I didn't specifically request it. Red plastic circles, plastic card stands, dice. And the card deck was shrink-wrapped, so it's not like they moved around in the box. I have a simple cardboard divider which I believe cost 30c.

I paid 40% down, both times I manufactured so far. I certainly wouldn't pay everything up front.. how will they be motivated to meet any timeline at all? You'd have literally no leverage.

Transparent "baggies"

evansmind244 wrote:
I asked about having a plastic compartment that fits all the cards, tokens etc.....which is not included in my previous quote. That's $0.75 a set, which I'm assuming that's per game...

Not a "good" idea (plastic compartment). Why? What if you put cards in sleeves are they going to fit?? I found this to be rather detrimental when we are talking about "The Game Crafter". All their box sizes are GREAT with just plain cards... But ADD plastic sleeves and all of a sudden the boxes are too small.

My advice is to use "transparent baggies" which cost like $0.01 each, one for cards, one for parts, one for dice, etc. So it costs you like $0.10 more who cares!? It's less expensive that a "plastic whatever" and they can be replaced by the owner if the baggies get too used up.

BTW the size I get are 4"(width) x 5.5"(height). That's what TGC send my cards and parts in and there are no problems. Granted you can have the cards sorted and then shrink-wrapped and THEN "baggied" ... With TGC there is only the "baggies" no sorting nor shrink-wrapping OF CARDS.

Don't bust you budget for something more complicated (and costly) than a little "baggie".

Cheers and keep at it... We see that you're not finished with the product just yet... But 90% is getting close.

Jay and Quest

Thanks for the timely feedback. I made a 50% deposit asking for things to be expedited. My time line of Mid October is still within reach...although that's a very very tight timeline.
I decided to just go with the Shrink wrapped cards, and forget about the cardboard or plastic divider so landed cost is still the same. On print run 2 (when and if that happens) I will get something a little more fancy!!

I got the copy I ordered from The Game Crafter.........AWESOME!!! Its so exciting to see the game in its final form!! Of course I got to see everything over grainy FaceTime, but man it feels good to be approaching this milestone. Guy's I'm going to be RICH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :) :) :) LOL

Hopefully all your assets are

Hopefully all your assets are in the format they need already :). My first game needed some tweaking for safe zones and whatnot. Good luck!

Jay

The art has been confirmed already. Now we are just waiting for the samples. My graphic designer is so awesome, he dealt with Gameland himself!!

evansmind244 wrote:The art

evansmind244 wrote:
The art has been confirmed already. Now we are just waiting for the samples. My graphic designer is so awesome, he dealt with Gameland himself!!

Pretty sure the best thing you ever did was switch designers :)

100%

That is 100% true.

I'm glad you're feeling hopeful

Jay103 wrote:
Pretty sure the best thing you ever did was switch designers :)

I agree also. The other one-stop-shop was milking you and producing not very professional content either. This designer that you have has made a very professional look to your game and is very helpful too. Like you finally found someone who wants to make some money and is honest enough to know when something should be complimentary.

Sometimes it's just a question of "busy-ness". If the resource is "busy", if they are professional, they stick to the schedule. If they have some extra time, sometimes they go above and beyond to help you. Which is good... Because it can't always be about money either... Then you get back into the situation with your one-stop-shop...

I'm very happy things are working out for you. Cheers!

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