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-I've decided to use GameLand to manufacture my game. Because they are the only one's that continued forward with the quote process.
-I've decided against TGC because my game was almost $52 per unit. I can't think of anyone except hobby gamer's that would pay that price for a game, and I don't think any hobby gamer's will be buying my game. So I ordered one for promo purposes and its off to China.
-I will order 1000 units. Hopefully I sell 200 but as of yet the Tariff hasn't passed and this will save me money in the future if that happens. Also I have a shot at going viral and selling 600 which would get me into the Green for this project!!!
-GameLand says they can have me games by October before the Holiday season!! I know that if anything goes wrong that could be close....but I've got to HOPE!!
-I'm looking at 6.78 per unit cost.
-No idea on Freight Forwarding yet.
-Still don't have a lock down on Fulfillment. None of the typical Board Game fulfillment companies wanted my business. Perhaps they're hobby gamer's??? I'm sort of a black sheep in this community, I think because my game looks like Monopoly!!
-I may create a marketing campaign that goes something like this "If you like Monopoly then you'll Love Holiday Fever A Family Tradition".
-I'm set on finding a Fulfillment company in SLC Utah, because its close enough for me to drive to and pick up the games that don't get sold this Holiday Season and store them myself until holidays 2020.
-Thinking about doing a KS in November with a very low goal, offering a coupon for donations (keep from paying KS too much cash) that backers can take to the website and get the game for Cheap!! Just a marketing idea.

Please shoot some holes, give me your idea's, experience, strength, hope!!!

Comments

questccg wrote:Jay103

questccg wrote:
Jay103 wrote:
Quote:
That would be 59 games

I win!

How can you possibly WIN if the contest is still on-going! There's November, December and one (1) week in January left. I don't know what gives you the impression that you won... And I find that maybe if this is the continued trend, Evan will be the winner with a prediction of 234 games.

Austin is capped at 100, me at 86 and you at 60. If he sells 2 more games, you lose @Jason... Grossly underestimated how many sales he is getting for 2019. The real winner will be @Evan TBH!!!


Well, he should end the contest right now, obviously.

Surprise, surprise!

Jay103 wrote:
...Well, he should end the contest right now, obviously.

Well what I see is that "on his own" @Evan has gotten MORE "Backers" than "Monkeys vs. Lemurs" (which only has 55 Backers). Granted we all agreed that the KS campaign was a bit suspicious (because of the large dumps of money which seems to make the campaign un-realistic). And he did it by himself without ANY marketing or Backers.

I'm personally "shocked"!

I mean it's not like I don't have any Faith @Evan... On the contrary, I feel his game is very "relevant" for the Christmas Holidays. I just feel that it is VERY seasonal. And so I'm more concerned with the sales AFTER January 2020 TBH. But that has nothing to do with the contest.

Maybe @Evan is gifted with the "Sale's Gene", the one obviously absent in my blood (LOL). If he sells above 100 games, we'll indeed all be at a loss (so to speak — with the contest I mean...)

But congrats to @Evan... my guess is that he will outsell ALL our predictions... We'll have to wait and see!

The Review

Hey I want you guys to read the review and tell me what you think? He gave me a 9 out of 10 on BGG rating scale.

-We are going to start marketing after Halloween. I'm not putting a cap on the Marketing budget...if its working, I'll increase the budget. I've got lots of idea's for marketing too many to go over.
-We will be in a busy grocery store, in a wealth ski town!! Potential sales could be high, but I won't have games in the store until Thanksgiving-ish.
-My sister is going to send a 2 games one to Katy Perry and the other to Orlando Bloom whom she has a personal relationship with.
-My web designer/marketing partner is excellent at her job.
-I've made an affiliate program for Lisa (a blogger) for $5 for each game sold through her promo code.

Now if everyone agrees (Quest, Jay, Austin) then we can reset the game and you each get another guess. After all its OUR game, and it was just a prototype and we were just play testing. So if you all agree we can reset and you can each make another guess based on current sales, and my marketing plan????? BTW 2 more games sold which brings us to 61!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My opinion

Leave the "contest" AS-IS. If after the time the contest is done, you are over 100 games... Why don't you just give us each a $25 Gift Certificate and that would mean saving $25 ... and sort of a "participation prize"...

I don't think it's wrong to go over the 100 games sold marker... But we'll see. I don't really care about winning the Gift Certificate TBH. I'm more interested in knowing how you actually do!

But it's your contest.

Also ...

Are these REAL SALES??? Or are you counting "giving away" promotional games...? If you give it away FREE... That's NOT a sale. Just want to be certain. Oh and yeah no $1 a copy either. I mean REGULAR SALES like $25 USD and up. What is your price point BTW??

I can give away a bunch of games FREE too... But that's not a SALE. It's like a promotional item ... You mentioned "Marketing" and I was just wondering are these 61 games SOLD or not?!?!

Best if you clarify things just not to give false impressions. Otherwise I can say I made 3,000 sales of "Quest Adventure Cards(tm)". But the truth was I donated 3,000 booster pack to needy kids (in my neck of the woods).

So just let us know what is the protocol for these 61 sales...

Legit Sales

Technically there are 49 copies sold, with funds in my accounts, but we have a hand shake from the grocery store for 12 games.

-I have only give away 2 copies from The Game Crafter so far. I have made a generous promise to give Lisa 5 copies for her marketing help on her blog + $5 per copy that sells through her affiliate site(Those copies will be counted even though I'm giving her a $5 cut).
-Just simple reviews asked for 2 production copies of the game for his review. I've told him that I will give him 5 copies as well + I will sell him games at wholesale. I figure a guy like him, giving away my games for Christmas Gifts is probably not a bad idea. I will count the games sold to him at wholesale, because I will count sales to any other retailer who will buy at wholesale.
-I will not count any games given away or sold for less than wholesale. Which I don't plan on doing anyway.
-Price point pre-thanksgiving is $35+$9 flat rate shipping.
-Price point after thanksgiving is $40+$12.50 flat rate shipping.
-Price point wholesale is $20 to retailers who purchase 10+ games. Minus Just Simple Reviews...he gets wholesale no matter how many he purchases if any!!
-I will give anyone on BGDF the same deal I'm giving Lisa. $5/unit for posting a link and marketing my game on your websites and social media. I will give you a unique link, and tally your sales in January.
-As for sales after Christmas....That's a mute point because my hope is to only work 3 months out of the year on HF!! Order games in January, look for retailers who will carry the game, then ramp up Marketing etc...Nov and Dec!!! The rest of the year, I can think of new ideas!!

Ah okay... Sounds legit to me!

I was just wondering because ... it could be questionable strategy of giving away games to TRY to earn some "Future" Market Share. Some people do this in the sense that they give away product hoping they in turn entice more people to the "product".

3 Months per year sounds reasonable. Gives you time to rest, take a breath and also giving you more free time. During the Holiday Season, I figure you will be very busy!

I really do think that this game has HUGE Mass Market appeal... Think Hasbro and Parker Brothers, et al. The only "down-side" is that it is a very seasonal game. But if that means you working only 3 months out of the year on HF ... Well that sounds like a very reasonable and sound plan.

Do it when it's hot, review and research when it's down-time.

Cheers!

Giving Away Games

I had the idea in my head to give away lots of game, but I think it was you that helped me see the flaw in that strategy. I want FANs of the game. I need to find those people who would pay full price for the game because those people will be Fans of the game. I don't need people who will impulse by the game because its $25 dollars. They will be shallow customers. I want people who buy it because they want a GREAT Christmas game, and are willing to pay market price for it, and share it with their family, friends, and neighbors. The game is designed to give family's special memorable moments. When those moments happen, those customers become true fans, and true fan's will spread the word.
I do need to say that since the beginning my vision has been that I will give away a certain number of copies away each year, as a special Family Tradition for my family specifically. I will probably end up giving away 10 copies by hanging them on People's door's with my wife and kids this Christmas Season. Last year we went around to friends and neighbors giving away GORP trail mix because we wanted to be the family that brought by a healthy treat...not Cookies that you can't stop eating. Now we'll have something even better to drop by with....The game that keeps on Giving.

Does Parker Bros still exist?

Does Parker Bros still exist? I thought they were bought out years ago. I did a factory tour there for a birthday party when I was a kid. Yes this is another digression :)

(edit: Yes, bought by Hasbro in 1991)

But I still think they "exist" under a Hasbro Brand

I'm not sure... But when I did some Googling it seem like you are correct in saying that Hasbro bought out "Parker Brothers" in 1991... But I'm still positive that I see products, specifically Board Games that are branded "Parker Brothers" to this very day (Clue, Monopoly, et al.) I think Hasbro uses "Parker Brothers" as their "Board Game"-Wing sort of deal...

Again I'm not 100% sure. If I am incorrect feel free to point this out.

But I'm almost positive that I've seen BOTH Clue and Monopoly be under the "Parker Brothers" games brand.

Cheers!

Note #1: Googling I found that it says "Monopoly" is published by Hasbro. But the original game was acquired by Parker Brothers. Same goes for Cluedo (or Clue). Must be because I have 80s board games... That's why I remember Parker Brothers...

Note #2: It took some time to SEARCH for this but I found a VERSION of "Monopoly Deal" published by Parker Brothers...

https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/40398/monopoly-deal-card-game

So yeah it seems like Parker Brothers is STILL AROUND today!

Note #3: Here is some background information:

https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgamepublisher/28/parker-brothers

Update 01

Hopefully you guys haven't missed me too much!! When I get home, things get busy. Just a few updates for Holiday Fever A Family Tradition

-Direct Sales 114/units (sold 15 at the local holiday art show)!!!
-Wholesale 09/units
-Give aways 40/units

My wife got me all set up for Walmart but we need a vendor number which the Local store managers don't know how to get. Each of my local Walmart's want the game. The managers don't like the price point of $35 but they each want to start with 25 copies (75 total), and see how it sells at $35!! I don't know if you guys know this but it is possible to get Local products, or any product in Walmart with relative ease!!! If the store manager likes it, and likes you he can request to sell it...Easy!!

Question on Whole sale: Assuming I'm the Publisher/Distributor of the game, how much do I sell to Retailers if my mandatory retail price is $35 -$45?? I've been selling them to Retailers at $20?? Thanks for help and advice!!

Well it looks like we ALL lost!

The highest bid was 100 units by @Austin (MAR). You've surpassed that goal and there were no higher bids except yourself (At 234 units)... So I guess @Evan you are the winner of the $100 Gift Certificate!

Congratulations on besting our "expectations"! You've definitely got a knack for sales and salesmanship. Never something that I could do... I just don't have the skills for "cold calling", "salesmanship" or establishing a "rapport" with customers. Not for me, I'll stick to designing and hopefully work within my limitations (when it comes to sales).

Best of luck on future sales... You've still got about 2 months of sales ahead of you ... You might even beat your own target too!

evansmind244 wrote: Question

evansmind244 wrote:

Question on Whole sale: Assuming I'm the Publisher/Distributor of the game, how much do I sell to Retailers if my mandatory retail price is $35 -$45?? I've been selling them to Retailers at $20?? Thanks for help and advice!!

Wholesale is generally 60% off SRP and retail is generally 50% off srp, so for a $35 retail, you'd be looking at a $14 wholesale price with a $17.50 retailer price.

Walmart corporate buys for significantly less than that (I've been told as much as 75-80% off SRP), but as you're dealing with a local manager instead of corporate, that's a starting point. Of note, WalMart corporate also tends to buy print runs in the 10,000 units + range specifically made for them so getting into those stores through corporate is a huge thing.

Quest

I'm going to keep pushing and we'll see what we end up with this year. I do think this is fun...the salesmanship aspect which is making me more and more consider the Publisher side of the house. When I get into Walmart I will have that pre-established relationship to help me sell others games. The only issue is I'll have to be extremely picky about which games go in there....or my fellow board game designers will have to make products strictly for that Walmart relationship to help them fund their indy game passion!!
I think we will divide the plunder of the competition I sent you a $25 Gift Card!! I'll consider it product R&D. Thanks for all your help over the years.

Wow that's lower than I thought

I Will Never Grow up the store manager acted as if giving him the game for $20 was a good deal with Retail at $35. I have a lot to learn on the business side of the house. Does anyone have any links to articles I can read regarding Wholesale/retail pricing?
I'm not particularly impressed with GameLands quality (although their quality is definitely not bad) their price is very very low. But compared with TGC there is a noticeable difference in quality.
The store manager told me $25 would be the perfect price point for my game in Walmart. I think at that price point I should be able to find a manufacture that can meet both quality, and quantity with that $25 retail price point.
I will become the distributor if I get some Walmart contracts which should allow me to provide a good quality product at Walmart pricing standards.

About the $25 USD price point

It's ridiculously LOW. You're not "Parker Brother" nor are you "Hasbro"... You can't afford to have the same price point, especially as an independent venture.

But Retail is 50% ($12.50 USD), Wholesale is 60% off of retail ($10.00 USD).

And you've got to find a way to make some money too... I don't remember what your landed price point was, but I'd bet it's somewhere NEAR there...

To REALLY be able to get the BEST possible "break", you need the cost of landed goods to be $5.00 USD. How do I get this figure? MSRP = 5x Landed Cost.

5x $5.00 = $25.00 USD... See how ridiculous this is???

That's why we are in the "Hobby Gamer" Industry. Scythe sells for up to $90.00 USD. Amazon has it at $72.99 USD... Which is a bit discounted and feature FREE delivery. But I'm sure NOW you get it. If I can compete with a game at $90.00 USD that is very different than one sold at $25.00 USD!

It's just disheartening how economies of scale can impact the price point of commercial games (not Hobby Games).

Anyways let us know if you can compete at these price points. I know you shared some of your costs before... I'm too lazy today to go and check in this thread how much your LANDED COST was.

It better be DAMN close to $5.00 USD and not $10.00 USD. Otherwise you should be retailing your game around $50.00 USD... The numbers don't lie.

That saying about assumptions...

I had no ideas individual Walmart managers had such autonomy. Hops to you for not assuming they didn't. (I do wonder--and it's just my desire to be right--if this may not be a universal option.)

If you can place the game in even greater numbers, then in big, diverse population centers, it will be time to start thinking about investing in a Spanish edition.

Mosker wrote:I had no ideas

Mosker wrote:
I had no ideas individual Walmart managers had such autonomy. Hops to you for not assuming they didn't. (I do wonder--and it's just my desire to be right--if this may not be a universal option.)

If you can place the game in even greater numbers, then in big, diverse population centers, it will be time to start thinking about investing in a Spanish edition.

Yeah, this is an incredible find. I have to send the credit to my Wife. She worked this all out while I was overseas. She even set us up as a Disabled Veteran business, which gets us all kids of cool perks....which would be helpful as I develop a Publishing business. Rolling for Bunnies is on my scout list!! Get ta work over there!!
How on earth do I begin with a Spanish Edition? I guess just find a good translator and then print a Spanish edition?

Good for you!

evansmind244 wrote:
I'm going to keep pushing and we'll see what we end up with this year. I do think this is fun...the salesmanship aspect which is making me more and more consider the Publisher side of the house. When I get into Walmart I will have that pre-established relationship to help me sell others games. The only issue is I'll have to be extremely picky about which games go in there....or my fellow board game designers will have to make products strictly for that Walmart relationship to help them fund their indy game passion!!

Ya I would not have any problems working with a good salesman. I suffer from an image problem (not really but to others yes). I look much younger than I really am and I'm not as established as most 40 year old people are with children and wives. I'm still single hoping to meet that right lady.

evansmind244 wrote:
I think we will divide the plunder of the competition I sent you a $25 Gift Card!! I'll consider it product R&D. Thanks for all your help over the years.

Again many thanks for your generosity. I try to help out the best I can. Sure reading and writing rulebooks is not FUN (at least not for me)... I prefer designing and playtesting with real players. Where you see people's reactions to the game or when they outsmart an opponent... Always a pleasure to watch games unfold...

Also ...

I generally enjoy discussing design and mechanics... I'm trying to broaden my own personal experiences and therefore TRY to explore different mechanics for each of my own games.

This is partially inspired by Reiner Knizia... He understood that to be successful in Game Design, you need a portfolio of games, not just that ONE (1) game you designed... To be successful you need multiple titles and establish "BRANDS" around your games.

This means designed for expansion (http://www.XTG3.org) and establishing products that attract an audience and TO ME, I find this best with games geared towards 12+ years which can be entertaining for Teens and Millennials ... And then on the lower spectrum to "interest" younger players to partake in the game (maybe with some coaching).

Games that are "Father Geek Approved" also (which means all three groups had FUN playing the game: kids, parents and adults).

Update

I'm now at 196 games sold, with online sales slowing down a bit. I've got one more Christmas Bazaar to attend this weekend. This one is going to be full of my target market so hopefully sales will exceed the last Bazaar of 33 games sold.
Shipping and fulfillment has increased from 12.50 to 17.51 to get the game by Christmas. I've decided to just eat the extra cost, and just keep 12.50 as my shipping rate. I'm 100% confident that my game is Too expensive at $35 dollars. I need to be at $25 BADLY!! I'm searching for a different Manufacture, and looking at prices for Print runs exceeding the 5000 unit threshold. Shuffled Ink's price quote came in at $5.27/unit X 5000 games. This would put me in the $7 realm for landed cost, and if I am the Distributor for the Game as well I figure I can be at a $24.97 retail price. What do you all think?
I have landed a Walmart deal for 3 stores, and they've just gone ahead and made me a Global Walmart Vendor. I'm not quite sure how that all happened but my wife, and God is to be thanked. I am still working out the Details with Walmart but I know one thing is absolutely necessary: I must get my game to retail for $24.97
Local sales in stores have been minimal, and I am certain its the Price point!!

That is really fantastic.

That is really fantastic. What was the cost to join the Bazaar, if I may ask.

The Walmart thing is insane.. if you can get into a lot of Walmarts (next season, I assume), that might even justify the 5000-unit order.

Otherwise.. 5000 is an awful lot of boxes to store.

My recollection is that Shuffled Ink's prices were higher than average (paying them to be middlemen, was my impression). At 5000 units you should really have no problem going direct to China yourself..

What does Walmart pay you for box that's on their shelf at $34.97? That should give you a good estimate of whether you can afford $24.97. Don't forget to include shipping TO Walmart in there somewhere. Though I guess they have warehouses right at major ports from China, so maybe that's free.

And if you can pull off the Walmart thing, I may need to talk to you about my own games.. :)

Congrats

This is a heckuva journey you've been on, Evan. Well done. :)

On the shelves at Walmart...Wow! That's a massive step forward, and definitely in sync with your target market.

let-off studios wrote:This is

let-off studios wrote:
This is a heckuva journey you've been on, Evan. Well done. :)

On the shelves at Walmart...Wow! That's a massive step forward, and definitely in sync with your target market.

Speaking as someone who's sold at Ren Faires now, I'm almost more impressed with 33 copies sold at a table. I mean, it is DIRECTLY going in that market, in the correct season and all that, and you probably can't sell much Jan-Sept, but still.

(I have found, though, that price point is very important in person, though less so online... I dropped my price on the last day of the four-day Ren Faire I did this summer and sold far better that day. Same overall customer engagement, but much better sales).

evansmind244

evansmind244 wrote:
...Shipping and fulfillment has increased from 12.50 to 17.51 to get the game by Christmas. I've decided to just eat the extra cost, and just keep 12.50 as my shipping rate...

Why is shipping costing more??? This is profiteering by the warehouse?? My guess it's not costing THEM a penny more... They're just taking advantage of the busy-ness of the holiday season. Not very Christmas-like is it?!

evansmind244 wrote:
I'm 100% confident that my game is Too expensive at $35 dollars. I need to be at $25 BADLY!!

Are you saying $35 = $25 + Shipping? OR is it $35 + Shipping?? $25 is economies of scale (Volume). Don't compete with Hasbro... They're a giant and can afford to make deal across the USA.

evansmind244 wrote:
I'm searching for a different Manufacture, and looking at prices for Print runs exceeding the 5000 unit threshold. Shuffled Ink's price quote came in at $5.27/unit X 5000 games. This would put me in the $7 realm for landed cost, and if I am the Distributor for the Game as well I figure I can be at a $24.97 retail price. What do you all think?

I wouldn't deal with ShuffledInk if they were the last manufacturer in the world. The president was a total and complete jerk to me. He talked to me as if I was "stupid" and knew nothing about manufacturing games. Next he proceeded to tell that some "client" of their accepted to pay DOUBLE the price based on the "quality" of some samples they sent her.

Bottom line with them: they try to screw people over. Can you bet that my order would have been "double" the price?!?! This is my experience, your mileage may vary. Also they kept "quoting" me for things that I did not want. For example, I told him I wanted it manufactured in the USA. He quoted me a price for overseas production. Just so that he could easily state that it would cost more Made in the USA.

evansmind244 wrote:
I have landed a Walmart deal for 3 stores, and they've just gone ahead and made me a Global Walmart Vendor. I'm not quite sure how that all happened but my wife, and God is to be thanked. I am still working out the Details with Walmart but I know one thing is absolutely necessary: I must get my game to retail for $24.97

Just make sure you leave some profit for YOU! Whatever price point, don't do like us and EAT your price point until there is almost no profit... Remember $24.97 retail means $12.49 wholesale. Since you have no middle men, I believe your cost LANDED was $9 ... (something) meaning you only make ~$3.49... Not too bad... But you'd FAIL in distribution (too tight margins).

evansmind244 wrote:
Local sales in stores have been minimal, and I am certain its the Price point!!

What matters is what KIND of stores??? Toy stores or FLGSs?? If it's Toy or Hobby stores, everyone is competing for buyer attention... Tough to get sales there. We've already agreed that FLGSs would NOT sell your game due to the Monopoly-ressemblance and the fact that they only sell hobby games (not commercial ones).

How about this?

Jay103 wrote:
...I'm almost more impressed with 33 copies sold at a table. I mean, it is DIRECTLY going in that market, in the correct season and all that, and you probably can't sell much Jan-Sept, but still...

It's TIME for the "RPG-Version" of the game... Where you take on the roles of a "Fighter", "Wizard", "Thief" and "Ranger" (for completeness) and your goal is to reach the Dragon's Inner Sanctum!

Go around collecting jewels and gold coins... But beware of the Angry Dragon who may awake from his slumber in the depths of the Stronghold!!!

Instead of GIFTS, you collect GEMS (like in Bejeweled!) instead of dressing a Christmas Tree... And the 25 days of rush would be your "Journey to the Inner Sanctum" where you try to steal the Giant Ruby!!!

What do you think??? Something LESS "seasonal"!

Copyright 2020 © All Rights Reserved, K2 Games inc.

P.S.: I'll license it to you. Mouhahaha! (Just kidding)

Note #1: You could also go with a Steampunk theme too! Trying to make it to the TOP skies with your flying machine... Something like that...

questccg wrote:evansmind244

questccg wrote:
evansmind244 wrote:
...Shipping and fulfillment has increased from 12.50 to 17.51 to get the game by Christmas. I've decided to just eat the extra cost, and just keep 12.50 as my shipping rate...

Why is shipping costing more??? This is profiteering by the warehouse?? My guess it's not costing THEM a penny more... They're just taking advantage of the busy-ness of the holiday season. Not very Christmas-like is it?!


I'm guessing it's something like switching to US Priority Mail instead of the cheapest FedEx rate, because it's getting too close to Christmas for that rate to guarantee delivery.

Quote:
I wouldn't deal with ShuffledInk if they were the last manufacturer in the world. The president was a total and complete jerk to me. He talked to me as if I was "stupid" and knew nothing about manufacturing games. Next he proceeded to tell that some "client" of their accepted to pay DOUBLE the price based on the "quality" of some samples they sent her.

Bottom line with them: they try to screw people over. Can you bet that my order would have been "double" the price?!?! This is my experience, your mileage may vary. Also they kept "quoting" me for things that I did not want. For example, I told him I wanted it manufactured in the USA. He quoted me a price for overseas production. Just so that he could easily state that it would cost more Made in the USA.


I got a quote from them that was very low.. not itemized. I asked them to itemize. They did, and one of the numbers (for my set of large tiles) was just way too low. I literally had to argue with them back and forth that they were mis-quoting the price.. and eventually they realized that I was right. If I'd gone ahead, I'm guessing they wouldn't have honored that price in the end.. and with the real price it was something like 10% higher than Lijia was, maybe more.

Quote:
Just make sure you leave some profit for YOU! Whatever price point, don't do like us and EAT your price point until there is almost no profit... Remember $24.97 retail means $12.49 wholesale. Since you have no middle men, I believe your cost LANDED was $9 ... (something) meaning you only make ~$3.49... Not too bad... But you'd FAIL in distribution (too tight margins).

Well, in the perfect scenario, there's a 10,000 unit order from Walmart, and screw distribution :) However, I'd also bet Walmart commands a larger discount than 50% from an independent vendor. I'd guess they'd pay him $10 on a $25 msrp.

Not enough profit IMHO

Jay103 wrote:
...Well, in the perfect scenario, there's a 10,000 unit order from Walmart, and screw distribution :) However, I'd also bet Walmart commands a larger discount than 50% from an independent vendor. I'd guess they'd pay him $10 on a $25 msrp.

Well $10 on $25 MSRP = $0.00 profit. Maybe only $0.50 doing the current size of manufacturing. He'd need to get a Purchase Order to 10,000 units and say something like: "If you give me a PO to 10,000 units nation-wide, I'll give you a wholesale price of $10.00..."

Because he is going to need a GUARANTEE that Walmart will BUY ALL the inventory if he is to make any money.

Of course with economies of scale, he can maybe get his game to $6.00 and then he would make $4.00 minus the cost to get the inventory to stores. I still think the margins are TOO TIGHT IMHO.

About the RPG-Version

Okay so I'll SHARE some additional thoughts...

1> The board is divided into FOUR (4) Kingdoms. And in each Kingdom, you MUST be granted by the Kingdom's Ruler to recover the Red Ruby from the Dragon. A space on each side is "Royal Audience" (Kinda like the railroads).

2> Once a player has the FOUR (4) permission to go to the Dragon's Stronghold, he may now proceed on the Inner Track of 1-25 Spaces where 25 is the Giant Ruby and there are several others that "expulse" the adventurer from the Stronghold.

3> The Four (4) Kingdoms (and their spaces) are each quests, towns, and characters that allow you to collect "GEMS" (like Bejeweled!) The GEMS allow you to score points and keep track of your overall score. To do so, you must be able to MATCH the correct COLOR (According to the Kingdom) or match GOLD COINS to earn money!

Something as SIMPLE as this... It could be a TON OF FUN!!!

The Four kingdoms could: Human, Elves, Dwarves and Orcs...

I personally would BUY such a copy of a game. I don't care if it has any resemblances to Monopoly or Holiday Fever. It could be very COOL IHMO.

Note #1: Instead of like Bejewled!, each player could have a "Bingo-like" card and as players lose GEMS to the board or the various events, ONE LUCKY player will collect the LOOT! (BINGO!!!) A play on Monopoly Free Parking (and all it's controversy)...

Note #2: Instead of "Go-To Jail" or the "Jail square"... That could be reserved from the Mighty Dragon!!! When ANY player lands on the "Jail square" he UNLEASHES the power of the Dragon ... which will collect GEMS and Gold Coins from other the players...

Elivish spaces could be like...

"Sacred Grove": collect one (1) GREEN Gem.

"Pegasi Ranch": collect two (2) YELLOW Gems.

Each PLAYER could save a "score pad" with various LEVELS of Gems that the player needs to achieve before "scoring" POINTS. Like 6 "GREEN" Gems are required to score +2 Victory Points (VPs) or 8 "YELLOW" Gem are required to score +3 Victory Points (VPs).

The Dragon collects LOOT off these "score pads" when he is unleashed. So he slows down the player's overall COLLECTION (GEMS) progression.

Something like that... Hehehe.

Note #1: I take back the "Royal Audience" squares/idea... And replace it with the "DRAGON CARDS". Your BINGO cards are actually the way you get access to the Dragon's Lair. Once you have a SERIES and can yell "ARGON" ... then you are allowed into the Stronghold to try to collect/steal the Red Ruby... from the Dragon (named "ARGON").

Walmart

I will keep details on this development coming but for now up to 65 stores I can be what they call a Local Vendor. This allows me to be the Distributor, and command better margins than a Global Vendor would. I will keep you all informed about details as I learn them.
The store Manager who loved my game told me that they have sold over 300 copies of Idaho-opoly. Which is the game that sparked my wife to look deeper into Walmart.

-Important thing is that this is a REAL DEAL opportunity. I love the ideas for games you are coming up with. I want to publish board games, and if you have simple, mass market idea's I will have the access to Walmart and other Big Box stores because of my Disabled Veteran status. There is a very real chance that companies like Walmart, Target, etc....may approach me, because of my status as a U.S. federal government's System for Award Management (SAM). If you have ever wanted to be apart of an up and coming board game publisher then we should collaborate. I will need help obviously, and with a group of creative board game designers (and a willingness to design for mass market) I seriously believe we can compete with the Big boys. 2 heads are better than one, and so far none of us are making enough money to quit our day jobs!!

Ha... I like coming out with community-based ideas

I know I'm not a Spec Designer... I can't conform to strict rules about what components are required or what packaging the game must fit in (things like The Game Crafter Contests) ... But what I am decent at is ... figuring out based on what someone describes as a game THEY are designing, what OTHER types of game could FIT in the SAME "category".

And you know what...? Who cares if Hasbro (or Parker Brothers) goes after "imitation" Monopoly Board Games. I've seen what the competitors do... And quite frankly: "It's RIDICULOUS!"

Copies have things like instead of normal street names in a "rectangular" shape ... The make them "triangle" looking... Now that is so FREAKEN LAME! I don't need to copy their game to make our own game look different! That's the problem, all they are TRYING to do is COPY success... With "Legends of Five Kingdoms" (I added another faction... Because "Four" was already taken!), I am not copying anyone... I'm just taking a Holiday Season Game and trying to make it more appealing ALL-YEAR-ROUND. It's not a copy of anything... It would appear as re-using some "common" elements, that is TRUE. But an RPS-style game with spaces for each of the FIVE (5) Factions ... is well ORIGINAL.

And it's probably something you can SELL too!

Note #1: I also read somewhere that Hasbro (or Parker Brothers) had some kind of "patent" on a GAME where players start the game in a CORNER of the board.

Not sure if this is TRUE or not... But I remember reading something about this ... as a way to STOP actual COPIES of Monopoly.

Note #2: Just for completeness... The FIVE (5) Kingdoms would be: Humans, Dwarves, Wood Elves, Orcs and Undead (With Reputations such as Noble, Honorable, Neutral, Anarchist and Diabolical). With Five (5) Overlords that each are trying to capture the Red Ruby of Brimstone!

Note #3: I also have been thinking that each "location" comes with FOUR (4) SEASONS. For example in some locations it would be HARD to "build" or "harvest" during the Winter Season.

Yikes

If I get Hasbro or Parker Brothers coming after me, I think I will be able to stand the test. That would be quite the battle!! I would welcome it with open arms, and accept defeat or victory with honor and gratitude!! My guess is that I would have to get pretty big before the battle ensued, in which case I would be heavily fortified!! We will see!!

Post Christmas

BGDF,

Looks like the numbers are 252 Total games sold with 29 of those being wholesale to local stores, and 2 of those 29 were to a FLGS in SLC Utah called Game Haven. I've attached a picture of Holiday Fever close to Dominion!! hahahahaha I was dropping them off to the FLGS in Salt Lake City about 3 days before Christmas and Game Haven wanted to buy 2. They sold 1 copy in the 3 days before Christmas. hahahaha I made it into and sold a game in a FLGS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
On another note I ordered 100 units of apparel to sell at the Bazaars I went to. I attached a google drive link so you can see the apparel. I only sold 5 units of apparel. So I spent $1800 on apparel and sold $250 worth of apparel. Big loss there. I'll sell it for cost plus shipping over the next few years and see if I can break even on that venture. Sell multiple items at a bazaar would work if you were that type of vendor, but with a board game you don't want people distracted by apparel.
I will keep you up to date about our Walmart, Target, and Deseret Book retail links and how that develops. I appreciate all of you here at BGDF. If you have questions please ask here or PM me.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=12hEpYmSfSTWeasLbgPsFV53tQPR1vncv
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1UCqeXxzZX8cp7tO902kpXun93PNdWBVV

I think that's a good

I think that's a good lesson... don't dilute your brand. A lot of new folks do Kickstarters that way, selling mugs or magnets or shirts or whatever. I don't want your shirt, I want your game! Or maybe I don't, if I think you're a shirt vendor who decided to churn out a game..

Congrats on the great holiday sales! You sold over 200 units direct to the consumer? Fantastic.

I talked to a Walmart manager I know and was surprised to learn that yes, you can just sell directly to a Walmart, or to a regional cluster.

Walmart

So far I don't know the details of Walmart. There are over 160 articles/papers I need to read in Retail Link to get familiar with the system. One thing is for sure in my mind. This is a game changer for self publishing board game designers.

What a Debut!

Congratulations once again, evansmind244! Looks like you've made a lot of the right moves (scarves and ties notwithstanding). And the fact that this is a seasonal and likely evergreen product, you'll be able to move these around for a long time coming.

Has anyone posted reviews of your game yet?

let-off studios

let-off studios wrote:
Congratulations once again, evansmind244! Looks like you've made a lot of the right moves (scarves and ties notwithstanding). And the fact that this is a seasonal and likely evergreen product, you'll be able to move these around for a long time coming.

Has anyone posted reviews of your game yet?

Let off, I sent the game to 2 reviewers, JustSimpleReviews and Dadsuggests.

https://www.instagram.com/dadsuggests/
https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/292981/holiday-fever-family-tradition

I went through the list of reviewers on Jamey Stegmaier's website and found most of the ones that would do family games wanted to do a paid review type of deal. I do not want to pay for reviews.
JustSimple, and Dadsuggests just ask for a game to be sent. I got a really late start this year, so I mostly focused on Bloggers. I sent the game to a few bloggers as well. All the bloggers enjoyed the game..... I even set up an affiliate website for one of the bloggers who loved the game and was apart of my target market. I offered her $5 per game she sold through her link. She didn't get one sold game??????? She has 1800 followers on Instagram and close to 7k on Facebook and not one game sold through her. She posted about the game several times. Another blogger in my target market, with 16k followers on Instagram, posted about how they enjoyed the game and no discernible sales increase. I'm definitely confused about these bloggers, and reviewers.
I asked all my customers about where they heard about the game and None of them were from Bloggers, or the Reviewers. We had a few from face book and a few from a Radio show I did. The rest was word to mouth through friends and family.
This has me wondering what I should do for next year?? I am thinking that I should completely stop worrying about Bloggers and Reviewers and just focus on getting the game into Walmart, Target, Deseret Book, and possibly those Board Game stands set up in Malls. I will also set up an Amazon store through that guy I met Red Dog Mercantile for next year. He was very impressed with my sales, and wants to set up for 2020.

Dun & Bradstreet

Latest developments on Holiday Fever:

I was denied entry to Walmart because of my Dun & Bradstreet rating. Anyone know anything about this? Apparently it's important enough that it's keeping me out of Walmart (for now anyway) I will keep you all updated on what I learn going forward. I will crack this nut for sure!!

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