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How to "grow" a game organically???

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questccg
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I would imagine that they would cost more to buy too!

Jay103 wrote:
You can buy older boosters, but they're more expensive now.

Yeah they would probably be collectible stock meaning that the older boosters would cost a PREMIUM to buy. Individual owners may have an unopened box or SELL older boosters to players interested in collecting the older cards too.

Jay103 wrote:
Back in the mid 90's, I knew a guy who was an early player, and he saved an entire unopened box of Beta boosters. Forget how much he sold them for, but I bet it would be worth more now :)

Yes... Each booster is worth more than the box, in addition since there are limited quantities of older boosters, they are also probably more pricier too!

Jay103
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It was like $3000, not...
questccg
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Hmm... From what I have seen...

A booster box for Throne of Eldraine is $139 USD and has 36 sealed Booster Packs. That's $3.86 each Booster. Now selling the BOX at $3,000 USD is 20 times the price... That's a lot of an increase.

Usually Magic store charge $4.99 each Booster. So IF you buy a box and WAIT until that version of the game is older, you can AT LEAST make $40 USD and up... You just have to figure out if it is better to sell the ENTIRE box sealed or to sell individual Booster (I mean there are ONLY 36)...

Again this is Magic discussion...

With regards to the Topic at hand, I feel like your best goal is to try to ensure that when you do release a Second Product (Expansion) that you make all your current fans aware of it... And that you encourage them to help get on-board more players to play the game.

Maybe a growth of +100 Backers... That seems like a small-ish milestone.

But from a GROWTH POV, it's pretty good! I think I need to worry less about VIRAL influence and focus on "small victories". Like 1> Achieving my initial Funding Goal 2> Get a small following of players 3> Launch a second effort (1 Year later) 4> Achieve a 2nd goal, etc.

I'm still WORKING on the current cards and need to "understand" how to make them AVERAGE, in some cases above (so they also get used), and see how future RACES compare...

The trick is NOT to cannibalize your older editions for only NEWER ones. And then if there can be some type of "Play Style" that is designed into each Race... That could offer players more options (how to play).

I guess I'm getting too far ahead of myself.

But I was just trying to see HOW I could sell the "core" product to MORE players and "expand" the fan base...

What could be interesting is "GreenInbox" for BRANDING. Like if I spend $1,000 on advertising, could they guarantee a minimum of purchases...? A break even scenario would be not too bad. Like you SPEND $1,000 on advertising and at minimum you get $1,000 worth of product sold. Not sure if this is realistic... But maybe even 50% could be worthwhile. Like if you spend $800 on BGG banners you get no guarantee about ANY sales.

But if you got $500 from $1,000 worth of advertising... It's not too bad. You get more e-mails and can target MORE players with future editions. As long as there is some kind of minimum conversion rate and it works (to what degree varies)...

Anyways it gives me something to think about...

questccg
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What do you guys think?

questccg wrote:
...But if you got $500 from $1,000 worth of advertising... It's not too bad. You get more e-mails and can target MORE players with future editions. As long as there is some kind of minimum conversion rate and it works (to what degree varies)...

I'm not saying a 100% conversion rate... But some MINIMUM which gives you a larger fan base. Then you could DIRECTLY target these players with expansion and other games in the future. So a 50% rate would be okay IMHO.

What do you guys think???

Note #1: I believe Jason (@Jay103) said that IF he ran ads for $2,000 and made $1,000 was a "sarcastic" response... But in truth, it's really not that bad. I mean if you enlarge your fan base and get those people's e-mail ... That can be DIRECT marketing for future purchases.

I know the goal is NOT to take a LOSS. But the point is, if you need to spend some money to get less but are guaranteed "direct" references... That too has VALUE!

What are your impressions or thoughts???

Note #2: About Facebook... The main problem I see with using Facebook ads is "CONVERSION RATES". Just because the ad is seen does NOT mean a person will REACT to the ad. And so you could spend $2,000 and get $0.00 in return but maybe 10,000 people saw your ad... Who cares!!! NO CONVERSION = WASTE OF MONEY.

If there was a way to GUARANTEE a minimum conversion rate, then that is a service that I would consider using. In addition there are probably fees too... So any service that offers LEADS is going to make profit on your ad campaign. The question that remains to be seen is WHAT (or HOW MUCH) is there minimum conversion rate?!?!

questccg
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More about Facebook Ads

The REAL problem I see with Facebook is that people who are "Influencers" with over 7,000 FB Followers and 16,000 Instagram Followers generated in total a great big $0.00 monies.

These are both Influencers who ENJOYED playing the game... And still not $1.00 of sales.

So I feel like even TARGETED Facebooks ads will yield $0.00 of additional revenue ... just because FB charges for VIEWING ads not reacting to them.

In some ways you could build better BRAND RECOGNITION... with FB ads. But not necessarily more sales. That's the crux of the problem. You could have an ad for 10,000 FB viewers in the right Target Market...

Let me share some of my HISTORY with Facebook:

1. Reach = 34,302
2. Impressions = 44,230
3. Clicks = 96
4. Cost = $643.61

So I spend almost $700 and only got 96 clicks. That's as close to a conversion that I can get. But granted realize that I ran a FREE Contest and that could be people wanting to win a free GAME! Anyways it's NILL in the greater scheme of things. I'd probably wager that it "would" have amounted to $0.00 in sales/monies.

Therefore I am reticent to TRY more FB ads because in my experience they DON'T convert. But for building AWARENESS they are good. 34,000+ reach means that many people saw my ads, threads and/or messages.

What this means is that it probably gave me some influence with people who I might ask: "Have you ever heard of TradeWorlds???" And there are 34,000+ people who MIGHT say YES (If they remember)... That's the thing you don't stay HOT & FRESH very long with FB... Everything keeps evolving day-by-day, hour-by-hour!

The bottom line is that I personally think Facebook ads stink. It's NOT like Google who (I think?) work on a pay-per-click methodology. Here it makes more sense that your AD is viewed by 1,000,000+ people and only those who click through to your web page count towards your budget. This doesn't guarantee sales ... but you are so close (if your web page is a sales page) that conversions are much closer that an FB ad.

I'm going to see if I can research Google and read-up on their ad methodology. Like I said it "used" to be pay-per-click ... Now it may be views per ad too (like FB).

Note #1: AND I QUOTE:

Google wrote:
You’ll pay for results, like when people click your ad to call your business, visit your website or get directions to your shop.

This means VIEWING ADS is FREE. Brand recognition is free too. It's really PAY-PER-CLICK and you have a budget for this... My real issue now is understanding the "Budget" portion of the ads. You PAY-PER-CLICK and viewing is FREE... So it's only the people who NEARLY convert that cost you something in the end... Pretty impressive...

If anyone has more comments, knowledge or experience using Google Ads, feel free to share with the community your first hand efforts!

questccg
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Please let me know... Share your FB experience!

questccg wrote:
Let me share some of my HISTORY with Facebook:

1. Reach = 34,302
2. Impressions = 44,230
3. Clicks = 96
4. Cost = $643.61

So I spend almost $700 and only got 96 clicks...

Anyone else interested in sharing their Facebook ads experience??? I'd be interested in knowing if you've gotten more "clicks" that my 96 in your own marketing campaigns.

As I mentioned previously, the 96 clicks is probably for the FREE entry to a contest to win a FREE game. That makes sense that a handful of people would want to get their own FREE copy.

But money-wise... I doubt I would have gotten anything TBH.

I Will Never Gr...
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questccg wrote:questccg

questccg wrote:
questccg wrote:
Let me share some of my HISTORY with Facebook:

1. Reach = 34,302
2. Impressions = 44,230
3. Clicks = 96
4. Cost = $643.61

So I spend almost $700 and only got 96 clicks...

Anyone else interested in sharing their Facebook ads experience??? I'd be interested in knowing if you've gotten more "clicks" that my 96 in your own marketing campaigns.

As I mentioned previously, the 96 clicks is probably for the FREE entry to a contest to win a FREE game. That makes sense that a handful of people would want to get their own FREE copy.

But money-wise... I doubt I would have gotten anything TBH.

My currently running ad spend on Facebook Ads;

Reach : 7162
Impressions : 9027
Link Clicks: 59
Cost per click : 0.72
Total spend (as of this moment) : $42.71 in just over 2 days.

Increase in people who have chosen to click on "Notify me on Launch" of our kickstarter preview these ads are sending people to? +42 since the ads started.

Will this result in sales? Potentially. It's too early to tell.

My previous Facebook ad spend

Reach: 19,995
Impressions: 33,277
Clicks: 2134
Cost per click: $0.09

Total ad spend $200 over 2 weeks

Using a unique referral link, total sales converted from those clicks was just shy of $4000 with potentially more (as Kickstarter does not count a referral link as a conversion if they leave and come back via another source).

questccg
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Would like to know the details

I Will Never Grow Up Gaming wrote:
My previous Facebook ad spend

Reach: 19,995
Impressions: 33,277
Clicks: 2134
Cost per click: $0.09

Total ad spend $200 over 2 weeks...

Hello @IWNGUG, can you explain what you did to entice 2000+ clicks??? I'm just curious because I'm wondering what the appeal was. Like in my case I had a contest to win a FREE game. So 90+ people followed the link to be able to be a part of the contest.

I'm just wondering what kind of "message" you put out there to get 2000+ clicks (if you don't mind... I don't think it's secrecy...) Because we are talking about ads, the message is the key motivator. Maybe you submitted a picture or something similar (a short video, maybe?)

Anyways please reply when you have a couple minutes. Cheers!

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I did a bunch of smaller ads,

I did a bunch of smaller ads, but for my last campaign (the expansion set), I did a $20 spend to boost my KS video.

3754 reached.
1713 video views
618 video views at least 10 seconds ($0.03 per view)
47 link clicks
unknown sales (I think it may have been 3)

I Will Never Gr...
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Simple image ads really ..

questccg wrote:
I Will Never Grow Up Gaming wrote:
My previous Facebook ad spend

Reach: 19,995
Impressions: 33,277
Clicks: 2134
Cost per click: $0.09

Total ad spend $200 over 2 weeks...

Hello @IWNGUG, can you explain what you did to entice 2000+ clicks??? I'm just curious because I'm wondering what the appeal was. Like in my case I had a contest to win a FREE game. So 90+ people followed the link to be able to be a part of the contest.

I'm just wondering what kind of "message" you put out there to get 2000+ clicks (if you don't mind... I don't think it's secrecy...) Because we are talking about ads, the message is the key motivator. Maybe you submitted a picture or something similar (a short video, maybe?)

Anyways please reply when you have a couple minutes. Cheers!

It was an incredibly simple image advertisement announcing the game was live on Kickstarter.

Picture of the box, with "Funding now on Kickstarter" .. see the image here: https://iwngu.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/IMG_20180304_1923...

And it linked to the live Kickstarter.

No contests. No enticement. Just a simple ad. I tried several variations and this is the one that got engagement.

Our newest one that is enticing people to sign up for notification of the launch is here: https://iwngu.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/FE-Coming-to-KS-2...

Again, no contests, no enticements .. just an ad.

questccg
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Thank you for sharing

I Will Never Grow Up Gaming wrote:
Again, no contests, no enticements .. just an ad.

I may just try something similar. Thanks for being so honest. It's nice when people reciprocate by sharing not only their experience but "secret sauce" (In this particular case)!

I think I'll need to investigate further WHAT and HOW I would (if I try) do something similar. But definitely worthwhile a "small" try... Meaning I don't want to invest too many $$$ in the process.

Thanks for sharing James!

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Of course!

questccg wrote:
I Will Never Grow Up Gaming wrote:
Again, no contests, no enticements .. just an ad.

I may just try something similar. Thanks for being so honest. It's nice when people reciprocate by sharing not only their experience but "secret sauce" (In this particular case)!

I think I'll need to investigate further WHAT and HOW I would (if I try) do something similar. But definitely worthwhile a "small" try... Meaning I don't want to invest too many $$$ in the process.

Thanks for sharing James!

Absolutely.

I'll also note that on the first successful ad I tried 3 separate images and the one linked above is the one that resonated. The others had the game displayed or the components and it seems people were more interested with the nice clean look of just the box.

I have had some less successful paid ads on Facebook but they were only in the $25-100 range and poorly placed.

Two of the biggest things are a/b testing your ads (provide multiple ads and start eliminating the under performing ones very quickly) and targeting your audience properly. More people in your potential target audience does not necessarily mean better. Generally you want a highly targeted audience in the 150,000 to 250,000 range for best results if you can get that tight.

Also, boosting posts is almost entirely useless if anyone is looking at that.

I've never spent a lot on ads. Some are winners, some are losers, but overall they've made the money back and then a little. I am sure with a higher budget, better audience targeting and RE targeting to what they call a "look-alike" audience (which I'm about to attempt on my current ad set), it would work even better.

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Boosting posts works if your

Boosting posts works if your post is the ad :). That's how I did at least some of mine, I know.

"Look-alike" audience for the people who engaged with the ad.. should work pretty well.

questccg
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Some questions regarding your MO.

I Will Never Grow Up Gaming wrote:
I'll also note that on the first successful ad I tried 3 separate images and the one linked above is the one that resonated. The others had the game displayed or the components and it seems people were more interested with the nice clean look of just the box.

Understandable. Did you just create a "Thread" and upload an image and then "Boost" that???

Quote:
I have had some less successful paid ads on Facebook but they were only in the $25-100 range and poorly placed.

You're talking about other "Threads" I guess?

Quote:
Generally you want a highly targeted audience in the 150,000 to 250,000 range for best results if you can get that tight.

Yes targeting the RIGHT audience helps too!

Quote:
Also, boosting posts is almost entirely useless if anyone is looking at that.

Not sure I understand... Are you saying that boosting a "Thread with Text-only" is useless?! Because I was under the impression images worked the same way, IDK... You've got me a bit confused TBH.

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questccg wrote:I Will Never

questccg wrote:
I Will Never Grow Up Gaming wrote:
I'll also note that on the first successful ad I tried 3 separate images and the one linked above is the one that resonated. The others had the game displayed or the components and it seems people were more interested with the nice clean look of just the box.

Understandable. Did you just create a "Thread" and upload an image and then "Boost" that???

Quote:
I have had some less successful paid ads on Facebook but they were only in the $25-100 range and poorly placed.

You're talking about other "Threads" I guess?

No, not at all. I used the business ad manager and created an advertisement. They are completely unrelated to facebook posts/threads and show up in peoples facebook feeds as "promoted" ads.

questccg wrote:
Quote:
Also, boosting posts is almost entirely useless if anyone is looking at that.

Not sure I understand... Are you saying that boosting a "Thread with Text-only" is useless?! Because I was under the impression images worked the same way, IDK... You've got me a bit confused TBH.

Doing a post/thread boost does not get you the impressions (views) that a paid advertisement gets you. In fact, from what I've been told, boosting simply gets your post/thread in front of more people who already follow you on Facebook and not to new, potential, customers.

Advertising and Marketing on FaceBook is a whole industry in itself and one that a lot of people have trouble with. I've had mild success but I know of people who have spent thousands on FaceBook marketing and gotten 5-20x return on investment fairly consistently.

Obviously making posts/threads with text and images on both your own business and personal facebook page is important, as well as in any number of the appropriate facebook groups, but Facebook Ads are an extra level of marketing that typically brings in better results .. if done right.

Jay103
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You can boost a post to a

You can boost a post to a defined audience, just like an ad.

I don't think Facebook has threads, so I'm thinking Quest is talking about posts :)

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Jay103 wrote:You can boost a

Jay103 wrote:
You can boost a post to a defined audience, just like an ad.

I don't think Facebook has threads, so I'm thinking Quest is talking about posts :)

Ah, so you can. That's different from the last time I did a post boost.

I assumed Quest is talking about posts as well.

questccg
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What I meant by "Threads" is

"Timeline" that's the Facebook terminology. Whether you boost a post with an image or just text.

But what you are suggesting regarding an "AD" seems very different. I found the "Ads Manager" and looked at it a bit. I see entries to ads and so forth but must have been created FOR ME, when I boosted a "Post" in my "Timeline".

@IWNGUG (James): I might PM you for some more information.

Like I said, I looked at it. But am unsure how to go about it. I'd need some "basic" advice ... I'll definitely look at it. Because I've never CREATED AN AD. I just "boosted" posts to get more viewers. And quite frankly that is a complete and total waist of time, no matter if you only spend a $1.00. WASTE!

That's if you are okay with me asking you some questions... After I take a look at the "Ads Manager" in more details.

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