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I want classic roll and move with 2 dice...but have choices

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MarkD1733
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I am looking to make a game with standard roll & move with 2 dice, but in addition, the provide additional choices for using the two dice. Any ideas on what how to use the dice? I do have an action concept, where besides roll and move, you can use the dice for other actions, but the number determines those options. What games can I research that use dice for roll & move, but also something else.

Thanks in advance for your ideas.

Mark

AdamRobinGames-ARG
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Don't know of a game but...

That sounds like an interesting variant on the traditional roll and move. Maybe have two different color dice and one die may apply to one action while the other correlates to another action. You could move the sum of both, or use one to move and the other for the action (but not do both actions and refuse to move). This gives the player essentially a choice of 3 options every roll.

larienna
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There was a game called

There was a game called "Fantasy pub" where you could use both dice separately, or combine both dice together. I think it was 2 weaker actions with each of the die, or 1 stronger action combining the sum of the dice.

If you want negotiation, another idea is that player keeps a die in reserve and roll 1 or 2 dice, then chose to decide which dice they use. But the can negotiate with other players to exchange their results from other player's reserve. They could offer money or other favor in addition to the die.

MarkD1733
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good ideas--that is the type of alternative I am looking for

Move is always an option, but there are several other actions I am considering. I was also going to use them for certain combat and mission requirements.

Also, do you think the concept of you can Action B if the result is 2 or higher, Action C if the result is 3 or higher, etc. This way it gives more options if you happen to roll higher, and have some special actions or events that work off of "6" which I would replace with a symbol relevant to the theme. This is like how action dice work in Dead of Winter. Only in rare instances will a player have little option. Thoughts?

MarkD1733
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"Fantasy Pub" - holding a die in reserve

Interesting idea. I will ponder that one.

X3M
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(Attack) move

Another idea...

A player could use both dice to move.
By either:
- Adding them up.
- Subtract one from the other.
If you also can move away in the game, you could subtract the higest from the lowest, which gives a negative number. That could go in 2 directions.
A pair of dice is bad for the number of choices.

Now to add in an attack.
1 die is used for the move, the other for the attack. What occurs is a fast movement with a low attack or low movement with a high attack.
A pair of dice, simply gives no choice this time, but can be good.

Of course, you could add up the 2 dice for a super attack without moving.
Or subtract the lowest from the highest for that special move. In which I would include a result of 0 for that list.

questccg
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For my game it's all about "choices"

AdamRobinGames-ARG wrote:
...You could move the sum of both, or use one to move and the other for the action (but not do both actions and refuse to move). This gives the player essentially a choice of 3 options every roll.

Yeah I have a similar USE CASE where players roll 2d6s (White) + 1d6 (Black). The White dice are ADDED together... The Black dice is used to compare SOME cards which have a "Black dice value" (like 1 to 5) and then there are other cards with "White dice values" (like 2 to 10).

My dice are all CUSTOM where the "6" is a STAR and means ANY value you choose...

This increases the player's chance of rolling a match. Which in my game is VERY important... Because I don't want it to FEEL like a "dice rolling" game. Only a Tactical Level above the game which uses dice to select which cards are targeted.

Note: Players get three (3) Rolls and can LOCK either the "Black" or "2 White" dice. So if you get a GOOD "Black" value, you can LOCK IT and then only roll the two (2) White dice (as an example). Or you can roll all three (3) dice again (if the first roll was horrible).

Like I said the MAIN reason I am doing this is that I want the game to be LESS about "dice probabilities" and more about "CHOICES"...

Ramon (@X3M) computed that on average the successful rolls amount to 1.5 out of 2.0. So the best you can do is 2. The worst you can do is 0. And 1.5 is the probabilistic average...

questccg
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Control die followed by Action Dice

I don't know if you have heard of "Pocket Sports" Dice Games??? I know the Game Designer and he lives in Australia. We collaborated on a Mech Dice game which didn't seem to get any traction as a Print & Play (Nobody seemed interested)... So let me explain where I am going with ALL THIS!

A> You roll the "Control" die which has SIX (6) faces. What each FACE does is UP TO YOU! But the idea is that when you ROLL the Control die, based on the result, you ROLL ANOTHER die.

B> The "Action" dice are a series of custom SIX (6) faces too. Again what each face does is UP TO YOU! But the idea is that you ROLL an "Action" die, based on the results of the "Control" die.

C> Some "Actions" require two (2) dice and are all "color" coordinated. Like 2d6s "White" are used for "Purpose #1", 1d6 "Black" is used for "Purpose #2", etc.

Anyways you try to have like maybe 6 or so dice for these kind of "Pocket" games... It may interest you... To develop something similar with your own game concept.

Just some additional things to think about... Cheers!

questccg
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Let me "flesh" things out...

Obviously I know NOTHING about the "genre" or "theme" of the game you are trying to design. With that being SAID, let me explain the previous message and show you a "Fantasy Game" as a sample:

A> Control die (Red)

   1: Hidden Treasure
   2: Use Supplies
   3: Move
   4: Move
   5: Random Encounter
   6: Advance Day

1> Treasure die (Green)

   1: Nothing
   2: +5 Food
   3: +5 Water
   4: +10 Gold
   5: Random Equipment
   6: Random Treasure

2> Supplies die (Yellow)

   1: Use 2 Food Ration
   2: Use 1 Food Ration
   3: Blank
   4: Blank
   5: Use 1 Water Supply
   6: Use 2 Water Supply

3 & 4> Move dice (2 White)

   Roll 2d6 "White" to determine how many spaces you move.

5> Random Encounter (Black)

   1: Blank
   2: Blank
   3: Blank
   4: Wild Animal
   5: Single Enemy
   6: Enemy Party

6> Advance Day

Hole up and Camp for the night. Could have a Nightly Encounter... Roll the Random Encounter die and ADD +1 (for Night). You could do other "housekeeping" during the night like learn spells, heal wounds by resting, etc. It can also have "-1 Food and -1 Water" supplies for camping...

This gives an IDEA about how these DICE SYSTEMS could work... Plus it makes the game a "dice rolling" game... You are always at the mercy of the dice (and luck!)

Just a Fantasy-like concept... Cheers!

questccg
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"Random" Treasures and Encounters

You could use LOOK-UP tables and roll the 2 "White" dice to determine what you get. Plus you can get the choice of two (2) option:

1> D1 = Column, D2 = Row

2> D1 = Row, D2 = Column

This applies for:

  • "Random" Equipment
  • "Random" Treasure
  • Wild Animal (Combat)
  • Single Enemy (Combat)
  • Party Enemy(Combat)

So you can have some lookup tables and list the various results of your dice rolls. You would probably NEED some kind of "Guidebook"... For the tables and then the Encounter Stats for the enemies, etc.

Fri
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Jamaica

Jamacia is an example of a board game where the players can ise thier dice for resources or movement. In this game the dice are rolled the captain places them In day and and night order. Then each player chooses a card from their hand. Each of these cards has a day and night action. The possible day and night actions are move forward, move backwards, collect money, collect food and collect fire power. The player then moves that many spaces or collects that much of a resource.

Fri
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Games that where the choice is to move which piece

Backgammon isuses 2 d6s for movement. Though you do have to use them for movement, it is an interesting variation because players have the choice of many different pieces to move.

Enchida shuffle has a similar variation of giving the player many choice of many different pieces to move. Though this game only uses a a single d6 numbered 2-7.

apeloverage
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MarkD1733 wrote:Also, do you

MarkD1733 wrote:
Also, do you think the concept of you can Action B if the result is 2 or higher, Action C if the result is 3 or higher, etc. This way it gives more options if you happen to roll higher, and have some special actions or events that work off of "6" which I would replace with a symbol relevant to the theme. This is like how action dice work in Dead of Winter. Only in rare instances will a player have little option. Thoughts?

If you rank them correctly, wouldn't people usually pick the option related to their highest roll?

If you rank them incorrectly, wouldn't that mean options that almost never got picked?

MarkD1733
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Jamaica is a good example - thanks -- forgot that one

I think I want a fixed set of actions...with the main premise that you must take 2 different actions, except for move...you can always double move.

Also, what do you think of the dice being 1-5 with the 6 being a "special something" -- it would be good to have a symbol or other to represent that special something. Also, if you roll 1, there is a benefit as well, so that perpetually low rolls still reap some rewards.

Thoughts?

MarkD1733
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ranking the numbers -- not necessarily

In Dead of Winter, you roll a bunch of action dice...then you allocate them based on their value...some more important actions require higher values. However, not all actions are things you want or can do. This is true of even lower value actions.

My thought is to keep it simple and familiar...2 dice, but then use one die to declare the action and the other to use the points (if applicable), except movement which is always the roll of the dice and you can double move. Or maybe that if one die doesn't do it, you can use both dice to perform some minimal action. So, if you don't like your roll, then you can combine the two rolls into an action you do like. Does that make sense?

for example:

1+ Move (the amount you rolled)
2+ Search
3+ Repair
4+ Collect
5+ Battle
6 Equip or Use Card

For example if you happen to roll snake-eyes, you can Move 2, or you can do a Search, but instead of normally searching and getting two things, you search and get only one thing.

Example 2: You roll two 4s. You can perform "Collect" or any "lower actions" and get two actions, or you can combine the 4s to equal 8 and battle or use a card...but you only get one action, rather than two actions, if you really prefer the one action you get by making 8.

Hopefully, this is making sense. Please poke holes in this concept. Thanks!

let-off studios
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Streamlining, 1970's Dungeon Dice

MarkD1733 wrote:
My thought is to keep it simple and familiar...2 dice, but then use one die to declare the action and the other to use the points...
I like this system a lot. Seems quick to resolve and the math isn't demanding. Perhaps the only drawback is that the dice still require numbers to do things. Maybe you could streamline it so that the player can either do the two actions displayed on the dice, or they can do one action of their choice.

If you develop a system that's not dependent on numbers, you might be able to swing the use of custom dice, like those found in the old-skool Dungeon Dice:

https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/1555/dungeon-dice

For the record: the rules and the game are crap, but I bought it from my friendly local game store because the dice are -so cool-. It's a shame they were used for such a garbage ruleset. So I used them to develop a completely different game that utilized all the different symbols. Maybe you can, too?

evansmind244
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Roll and Move

I didn't get a chance to read everyone's responses. Sorry for that!! I did have a thought that I wanted to share as I saw some of the responses were getting more and more complicated.

In my experience having developed a Roll and Move game over the past 6 years...hobbyist are definitely NOT into roll and move games. Their initial reaction is of HATE in most cases. Maybe Hate was too strong. Anyway my advice would be that if you are developing a Roll and Move game you must be sure of your market. In my experience anyone playing roll and move games isn't very interested in a complicated way to use the dice like in euro's and other games.

-Perhaps the dice can be used separate or together and the player can choose to move either way on the board.
-Player choice can be give on specific board spaces, and with cards that can be drawn or actions created on board spaces.

I just caution you to make a complicated Roll and Move because Hobbyist don't like Roll and Move, and people that play Monopoly tend to not want too much Choice!!

X3M
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By the looks of it. The roll

By the looks of it. The roll for movement is simply; the higher the roll, the more movement there is. Correct?
A player can choose to not move, but do something different instead?
Could a player also, not spend all eyes on movement? For example, the player wants to move only 4. And rolls 12. So, 1 die is used for movement. The maximum movement is 12??

Tim Edwards
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evansmind244 wrote:I didn't

evansmind244 wrote:
I didn't get a chance to read everyone's responses. Sorry for that!! I did have a thought that I wanted to share as I saw some of the responses were getting more and more complicated.

In my experience having developed a Roll and Move game over the past 6 years...hobbyist are definitely NOT into roll and move games. Their initial reaction is of HATE in most cases. Maybe Hate was too strong. Anyway my advice would be that if you are developing a Roll and Move game you must be sure of your market. In my experience anyone playing roll and move games isn't very interested in a complicated way to use the dice like in euro's and other games.

-Perhaps the dice can be used separate or together and the player can choose to move either way on the board.
-Player choice can be give on specific board spaces, and with cards that can be drawn or actions created on board spaces.

I just caution you to make a complicated Roll and Move because Hobbyist don't like Roll and Move, and people that play Monopoly tend to not want too much Choice!!

This is a good point. Be careful not to throw the baby out with the bath water!

I love a RnM and wish people would make more of them! :)

I'm making what I hope will feel like an old skool RnM experience. You're racing to the summit of a mountain. Throw 2 dice. You can use the lower roll to move up or the higher roll to move down.

Mosker
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Has anyone...

I looked at the dice, thought about the topic...Candyland mechanic but with choices. Surely someone has done this. You can move to the closest space with that symbol. Consider it with elements inspired by Talisman.

let-off studios wrote:
MarkD1733 wrote:
My thought is to keep it simple and familiar...2 dice, but then use one die to declare the action and the other to use the points...
I like this system a lot. Seems quick to resolve and the math isn't demanding. Perhaps the only drawback is that the dice still require numbers to do things. Maybe you could streamline it so that the player can either do the two actions displayed on the dice, or they can do one action of their choice.

If you develop a system that's not dependent on numbers, you might be able to swing the use of custom dice, like those found in the old-skool Dungeon Dice:

https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/1555/dungeon-dice

For the record: the rules and the game are crap, but I bought it from my friendly local game store because the dice are -so cool-. It's a shame they were used for such a garbage ruleset. So I used them to develop a completely different game that utilized all the different symbols. Maybe you can, too?

questccg
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Candyland concept at work with symbols

Mosker wrote:
...Candyland mechanic but with choices. Surely someone has done this. You can move to the closest space with that symbol. Consider it with elements inspired by Talisman...

Actually that's pretty interesting. You could have 2 dice:

1. A white standard d6. (1 to 6)

2. A Custom d6 with 6 symbols.

When you roll BOTH, you get the option of moving the white distance or moving to the symbol you match (of course this could require the use of Mana or some kind of "Magical Currency" in the game...)

That could be pretty simple and rather interesting IMHO. Cheers!

Note #1: The reason I have paired "Magical Currency" with the "Symbol" movement is that you want this to be an option used only when is it interesting to the player not every time you roll the dice. So it's used sparingly through-out the game as players accumulate the "Magical Currency" to make "Symbol-Movement" possible...

MarkD1733
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Streamlining, 1970's Dungeon Dice - response

Custom dice are a good idea...less interpretation and chrome factor. The only downside is that you begin to forgo the decision of which die is an action and which die gives you the strength of said action...albeit that some actions don't require a "strength." Also, dice with values allow any "lower value" action if you choose. So, for example, if you don't need "repair" even though you rolled a 3, you can move or search which only requires 1 or 2. As crazy as this sounds, I want a little old school "roll and move" randomness feel for these games I am designing.

I will check out Dungeon Dice. Thanks for that tip!

MarkD1733
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Roll and Move - response

Your points are well taken! It is not strictly roll and move like Monopoly...roll and move is a mechanic within the main rules. The needle I am trying to thread is very fine...and that old school, heavy-on-the-luck (but not completely random) with other choices is where I am heading. I am riding a lot on theme to carry most of the weight.

This is not so much for market as it is for a "home brew" challenge that was put out there -- a gauntlet that was thrown, per se. That said, the audience should appreciate any "roll and move" done better...I hope.

Thank you for your ideas and comments!

MarkD1733
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Candyland concept at work with symbols

Mosker and questccg,

Good brainstorming! I do plan to have two different colored dice (which is solely for theme). While I have no specific uses for the two colors, maybe there could be something to do with that. Maybe I can have one color go one direction and the other color go in the other direction, and you can combine them for a third movement option. So if I roll a white 3 and a black 4 I can go 3 this way, or 4 that way or 1 that way (4-3=1). Simple math, not exactly traditional R&M (which I don't want), but R&M nonetheless. I do have the "you have to take your full movement with whatever option you like with ways to mitigate that, but I do not require exact count to land on key spaces (that is crazy frustrating and completely useless).

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