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Corona or Not - here we come!

Rambling about our experience:

We have been learning and working through the manufacturing process to complete our kickstarter game: Headhunter: Hilarious Hires from History. Everything was going more or less according to plan, except for some unfortunate delays in November and December that did not allow our games to arrive in time for Christmas. Ok, well it was understandable and we were going to survive.

Then it was Chinese New Year that threw off the process, something we didn't account for originally because we didn't originally think we would need to worry about it. Ok, so maybe late Feb/March would be ok. We felt bad for the delay to the supporters, but they were quite understanding. We were excited to get the games, of course. But then there was an outbreak of Coronavirus in Wuhan, China (Our games were coming from Hong Kong, but it is still basically China). We spoke to our manufacturers to see if they were in danger of the disease- they didn't respond for some time. Eventually they did, indicating that they had chosen to extend their Chinese New Year holiday and actually some people never came back. Overall, they were back in the office and more or less healthy and had begun to get things back to normal- what a relief! They were alive and well and also our games were going to finally get made!It was a very pleasant experience working with them.

Then Coronovirus spread around the world and to the U.S.A. Our games were made and shipped by boat, of course, but there were Orders, Travel Bans, and our cargo got stuck in a port in LA, unable to be unloaded because it wasn't an essential item. This is of course correct and understandable, but still something that we were trying to monitor for weeks. Eventually, the cargo was permitted into the country, but the trucks would not ship it anymore due to the current crisis and their availability.

Eventually, we were able to get the pallet onto a train and have it transported from LA to Cleveland, where we had a local driver deliver it to our house. It has definitely been a learning process, and a challenge. Of course we apologize for the delay, but we are glad that despite the crisis and all essential operations that were being preformed, our unimportant games were still able to work their way through and reach our doors. Yes our game is available for sale now, but it is more important that everyone is happy, healthy, and safe.

Just a few thoughts about our experience.
Thank you.
-Legends of Ravenhall

Comments

Welcome to publishing!It's

Welcome to publishing!

It's important to get a good story out of your troubles :)

I had an entire pallet (1800 lbs) sent by air from China to Florida so I could get my games to US backers by Christmas. That was not fun. Took me until about 3-4 weeks ago to make back that cost (from 18 months ago)

I'm doing a reorder right now of my base game, which is so far going pretty smoothly, but it's not done yet so we'll see. Hopefully there won't be an election-driven trade war with China before I can get my games through customs (2-3 months from now).

Anyway, I hope that experience didn't also kill all of your potential profits.. I know contingency plans can be very expensive.

Thanks for the warm welcome!

Thanks for the warm welcome Jay!

I hope things go well for you this second time around. Overall, we got through fairly unscathed (knock on wood) regarding extra costs. Hopefully the trade war doesn't start until after you get your items through and stops again once you have that third group lined up! I'm not complaining- actually I'm thankful overall (despite getting sick myself for a few weeks). I just want to help people with awareness of issues that might be out there when things like this arrive (and it seems like something always happens every so often in various forms).

Thanks,

-Austin

The Hard Road...

I really hope things go well for you and your Family Austin. From experience this is what I call the "Hard Road". Not the "High Road", the HARD one. Why I say this??? Well it's hard to INVEST monies into a venture and then go out and try to see if the market is "receptive". What I mean is that usually the way to MAKE a product is to get "Purchase Orders" AHEAD of production/manufacturing. Much like Kickstarter and other crowdfunding platforms... Or like Jamey does and gets Dristributors to buy a bunch of games so that he can get sufficient monies to make them.

The "going all-in on your own" is a road I've been down before and I lost a lot of money because I realized that I didn't know how business was conducted prior to MAKING my game.

So you have 1,000 or 500 games made?

500 would be better and stand 2x the odds of being sold. But I think you were saying about getting 1,000 games, right? It's a real gamble. I don't know if you have the capacity to SELL ... But 1,000 units of some unknown game might take a little while to liquidate.

See the idea is to ALREADY have everyone lined-up for their copy. That's the NORMAL way of doing business (Pre-Orders or Purchase Orders). Making a game that did NOT fund on Kickstarter is well... A bad investment, IMHO.

Unless your investment is like under $2,000 USD (and some games are so inexpensive to produce based on their format) ... Then you need to get the Orders or POs first. You'll keep us notified how SALES go... Please stay in-touch and document your journey in your Blog.

This is definitely the HARDEST part of game design: SALES.

Not only that, but I'm not

Not only that, but I'm not feeling happy thoughts about the health of all the small game stores out there. I hope they survive, but no matter whatm distribution will be a tougher road to sell games imho, if you aren't the kind of game that can get into Target, etc.

Good luck.. Expect a struggle to get those sold. It will take effort.

(btw, my factory wouldn't make a 500 run of a product.. not sure how many would, though for a card game I guess they may, like Print Ninja)

A couple options for 500 MOQ

Jay103 wrote:
Not only that, but I'm not feeling happy thoughts about the health of all the small game stores out there. I hope they survive, but no matter what distribution will be a tougher road to sell games imho, if you aren't the kind of game that can get into Target, etc.

The problem with Distribution is that you need more than ONE SKU. So @Jason is okay, he has the "core" and an "expansion" that can be sold via distribution. Yes appealing to distributors is NOT easy. Especially after a "failed" Kickstarter. At least in your case, you manage to successfully KS two (2) separate products (in the H&T universe).

Jay103 wrote:
Good luck.. Expect a struggle to get those sold. It will take effort.

Not sure it is even possible. Evans was the only one who was able to move stock for about 300+ games in about 4 months. He did it and it was a seasonal game (Holiday Fever ā€” The Christmas game)

Jay103 wrote:
(btw, my factory wouldn't make a 500 run of a product.. not sure how many would, though for a card game I guess they may, like Print Ninja)

Actually I think "BangWee" and "Gameland" will do a run of 500 units. You could just confirm by e-mailing them. I checked James Mathe's website to know which one of these do MOQ of 500 units.

Again Print Ninja is relatively EXPENSIVE for making Games... Would recommend the two (2) above since they offer Chinese pricing.

questccg wrote:Not sure it

questccg wrote:

Not sure it is even possible. Evans was the only one who was able to move stock for about 300+ games in about 4 months. He did it and it was a seasonal game (Holiday Fever ā€” The Christmas game).


I sold about 375 units in April.. (plus about 250 expansions) Does "COVID-19" count as a season?

Amazon???

Jay103 wrote:
I sold about 375 units in April.. (plus about 250 expansions) Does "COVID-19" count as a season?

Are you selling via Amazon using FBA?

If so, I guess I can believe that you managed to sell that much in a month. But you also said you had FB ads too so I'm not sure how you sold that can be attributed to COVID-19 and your ad campaign...

And you need to remember BOTH your products (for H&T) had successfully KS-ed a while back ago. So that means people are buying based on prior success.

In the case of Headhunter, the KS was a failure. They didn't even bother trying a second time, they went ahead with an "Angel Investor" who I believe picked-up the cost for making the game (if I am correct).

The SALES of a FAILED KS product ... Will be very challenging. Other than direct-to-consumer sales at Church Bazaars or Famer's Markets and maybe game stores in your area (FLGSs)... On consignment(?) maybe.

I don't know... This is unchartered waters for me...

Hmm... Guess not?!

I did some Googling to see IF I could find H&T on Amazon. Looks like you are selling DIRECT from your website. If this is correct, CONGRATULATIONS!

I think you were considering using Amazon... Did you try it for a short while???

I know you have your own store from your website. The challenge is to FIND your website. Where as Amazon ... Everyone knows. Couldn't you DROP SHIP from your warehouse to Amazon buyers too???

I'll be if you sold over 300+ games in April ... With Amazon that would have been closer to 500+ games! I'm not very familiar with Amazon SALES... But I would guess you can DROP SHIP from your warehouse directly to the customer. You don't need FBA... As a seller of your product, you should be able to sell to Amazon directly...

Waiting for your response on this... Because everyone checks Amazon first. Like: "Is this game on Amazon??? Okay it is so now I can buy it!"

Amazon has made it hard in

Amazon has made it hard in recent years to do drop-ship (for example, not letting you sell during Xmas season), and if you do FBA, the warehouse charges are large (especially during Xmas season). I've actually been set up there for like 7-8 years now, but I haven't sold any Heroes & Treasure there. Yes, all my site, and all via FB ads.

Though I just got picked up by www.indiepressrevolution.com, which is where my last first-printing games will be sold.

Quest and Jay

What a response- I expected very little overall in gaining anyone's attention. I just wanted to share some of the experience over the past few months.

First, thank you Quest for telling me how things normally work- I have never thought of that before and am shocked at this revelation. [sarcasm for those unaware].

To answer your question, we are at 1,000 units. Our manufacturer would have done 500, but it would not have been worth the price per unit.

Despite the fact that you are basically correct about our Kickstarter gaining little support with our initial campaign, we did technically reach our second campaign's goal which was cut down to a minimal amount. This helped us do 2 things. First, it let those who wanted our kickstarter rewards from our first campaign to be able to get what they wanted and it honored them. Second, the extra cash, combined with what our "angel investor" gave us, was enough combined to expand the base game to provide more cards, better art, etc. WE are happy with that and honestly that's what matters. But you are right that it failed in the traditional sense.

However, as you have pointed out, we are treading in uncharted waters- and we knew that going into it. It is a risky investment, you're not wrong there. Our target audience that we wanted to hit was a group that we didn't see online much. We thought it would be interesting to try to aim for home school conventions (tens of thousands attend just in the closest few states). We think the game would be well suited for them (clean humor, family, party, educational), and also that is not a group at large that would be able to get lots of online interaction with. To add to the uncharted waters, all the conventions we were planning on attending here are now closed.

Despite that the game creation is simply fun for our family to do, we are also interested in selling the product to if nothing else to pay back the investor. Yes, our kickstarter only pre-sold 30-40 games or so, but in the first week we have had the games in hand we have begun selling bits and pieces to game stores, but nothing on a large scale. Since the virus has shut down our primary avenue, we are attempting to adapt. Having the virus myself, I was out of commission for a few weeks. We are getting back up and running now, and we were prepared and are still prepared for hard work. Fortunately, we don't shy away from it unlike many.

On another note, Congrats Jay on your sales! That is super awesome and I hope those numbers keep rolling for you! That made me happy to hear. I am also interested in the Amazon side of the discussion and am glad you found a way for your personal website and ad strategy to be doing well!

Quest, I'm sorry you made bad investments in the past and have had bad experiences. I hope your next game goes better, and I will be happy to support it. Either way, you are correct in your assumptions about the normal patterns and you are not wrong to doubt what you see. We are knowingly taking a risk and trying something we have little information about (as in a new selling strategy in a different market).

Thanks for the help in the past and hopefully we all have success going forward.

-Austin

You guys will do just fine!

MAR wrote:
First, thank you Quest for telling me how things normally work- I have never thought of that before and am shocked at this revelation. [sarcasm for those unaware].

No I'm pointing it our for our "readers". There could be newbies reading this thread... And so I wanted to point this out. Because HONESTLY the mistake (that I feel I MADE) was not going FIRST to the Distributor and seeing if I could NEGOTIATE a deal for "re-selling" my FUTURE inventory.

That's kind of what Jamey did his first time around. He said something honest like: "Look If you guys want to buy like 5,000 units and see if it will sell in stores, please pay me upfront so that I can MAKE the games."

And from what I understood, some Distributors were more OPEN to the request and willing to help Jamey out. But remember this is Jamey! The multiple SKUs is also very important. So Jamey did a bunch of SUCCESSFUL KSs and then went into direct to distribution because he had enough of the backlash from backers (who were very poisonous and made Jamey ill). All that is in the PAST, because Jamey now sells exclusively to Distributors who sell to Brick & Mortar shops.

MAR wrote:
To answer your question, we are at 1,000 units. Our manufacturer would have done 500, but it would not have been worth the price per unit.

Yeah they know how to price things: it's $x.00 for 500 and $x.00 + 500.00
for 1,000... There are economies of scale (and the price is usually NOT 2x as one would expect...) So it makes you want to order the higher quantity for a fraction of the "extra" pricing.

MAR wrote:
To add to the uncharted waters, all the conventions we were planning on attending here are now closed.

This is not BAD, it's just a DELAY. When things resume the New Normal (IDK what Trump is doing in the USA, but Canada will be shutting it's borders to most people. Unless you are a trucker carrying food or livestock or something required for survival, etc. Otherwise no. We are still being asked to keep the Social Distancing for our own safety because of COVID-19).

MAR wrote:
Quest, I'm sorry you made bad investments in the past and have had bad experiences. I hope your next game goes better, and I will be happy to support it. Either way, you are correct in your assumptions about the normal patterns and you are not wrong to doubt what you see. We are knowingly taking a risk and trying something we have little information about (as in a new selling strategy in a different market).

The problem is that I CAN'T sell anything. I'm in my forties but when you see me, I look like a 20-something. So first impressions are usually that I'm some (young) guy with no life experience. And believe me, I've been around... The sh!t I've seen how people treat other people is TERRIBLE.

That's WHY I turned to Game Designing. My work-related efforts proved that CONSULTING with people the way they are NOW ... and my whole industry has been poisoned by the "Human Resources" ... Those women are "awful" and don't give a cr@p about anyone but themselves. Try to get them to give you an HONEST chance to prove your capabilities and they are like "What the F- do I care?"

MAR wrote:
Thanks for the help in the past and hopefully we all have success going forward.

The real challenge will be to go the quiet road and SELL as much as you can. And like I said, I DON'T have the SALES Genes. Sometimes it's all about finding COMMON GROUND... But even that is hard sometimes. TW is not completed just YET. We still need to do more Editing to ensure that the game is ready to be manufactured. There were a TON of cards (1,000+) and still 2 rulebooks to complete.

Anyways I think you guys will do FINE selling. I believe your dad is a Pastor (right?) and if so, he knows how to deal with people. And I'm sure he past down his experience to the rest of the Family and in the worst case, for those TOUGH CUSTOMERS, your dad can deal with those! ;)

Cheers and best moving forwards! (Also please update your BLOG... It's good for people to share their experiences GOOD and BAD. Other people can read stories and learn from them, in addition to providing anecdotal content which for some is of value).

Machiavellian to me!

Jay103 wrote:
Amazon has made it hard in recent years to do drop-ship (for example, not letting you sell during Xmas season), and if you do FBA, the warehouse charges are large (especially during Xmas season)...

Wow... I know they are PUSHING FBA... But to actually STOP you from selling is a bit "unreasonable". For those who already have a warehouse (or do it via their home) ... Drop-shipping would be the logical avenue! I mean having your own "online seller" (Sold By: David & Daughters for example)... Would mean you get an order and then you just submit it to your Warehouse and they bill you for shipping and they would send the game(s) directly to the customer (I know you know what Drop-shipping means ... But not everyone does so I figured I'd articulate this for "readers".)

So how come you CAN'T sell during X-Mas??? Amazon just shuts you out of their search engine??? How can they stop you from people searching for H&T and finding you in their "database" (or directory)?? I'd like to hear more about these Machiavellian practices, for sure!

Keep us informed...

questccg wrote:
...(Also please update your BLOG... It's good for people to share their experiences GOOD and BAD. Other people can read stories and learn from them, in addition to providing anecdotal content which for some is of value).

BTW TBH I value the journey you've taken with your product. With all of the obstacles, you've made and got it now. It may not be the "Epic Quest" of all time... (LOL) But sharing the journey is like revelation. I feel for you guys, I've been down a similar road. But my road was a bit "tougher"... There were just too many barriers to entry for my product "Quest Adventure Cards(tm)".

However in the case of "Headhunter" (HH), it's a GAME, all encompassing one at that. And that's an important step to go in when you are making your FIRST game. Sure you learn more as you go along and then you understand how some formats are harder to do than others ... So you look for ways of making some formats more "pleasing" or "easier for newcomers", etc. That's the case with "Monster Keep" (MK). But I've still got a lot of design work to do on MK...

Back to HH, the "Hires from History" is also cool because it presents people from "History" and so it could be a "learning tool" in classrooms. I'm not sure for what AGE GROUP, I guess 9+ years of age where STRATEGY and strategics are important and usually developed around that age...

(I just got a freaken IDEA... Maybe you could have BROAD CATEGORIES for your personalities. Why? It could affect the method of PLAY. How? Well if someone proposed a RED card already ... And say RED = a Political Character... The other players CANNOT submit another RED card ... So it forces players to play beyond the box... so-to-speak!)

Just an idea... Anyways ... I'm sure you guys will do just fine. You are a large Family with many circles of Friends and with an influential Father who is known by the community. Lot's of pluses to your benefit.

BTW please do BLOG here every now and then. I'd like to hear your progress ... And I do most of my daily activities around BGDF. Your type of efforts in the Game Design world are just what OTHER people need to HEAR... Self-Publishing is a "tough" road. But I'm sure you guys will do well at it. Cheers!

It's was Flu-Season too!

MAR wrote:
...Having the virus myself, I was out of commission for a few weeks. We are getting back up and running now, and we were prepared and are still prepared for hard work. Fortunately, we don't shy away from it unlike many...

Yeah like over 2 months ago I had FLU-like symptoms (constant running nose, a fever for about 1 hour, some difficulties breathing ... But it's happened before... So I don't know if it WAS COVID-19). And another Family member had a Dry Cough for a couple of weeks... Said it didn't feel like it was getting better but eventually sub-sided. But it's spring so my runny nose could just be pollen counts (allergies)... And my Family Member could have just had a Cold (during this normal end-of Flu-season).

We're obeying the strict "lockdown rules" for self-isolation. So if we go out shopping on a day, we wait 2 entire weeks before going out again. This is just in-case we contract the disease, we would only have to deal with it ourselves and NOT infect anyone else.

And of course in Public we stay 6 feet away from individuals... Everywhere there is plexiglass at the Bank, Food Stores, Post Offices... So you are never in direct contact with the person serving you. It's a smart decision to do this form of "block" between the customer and the person on the other side (performing his/her "essential" duties).

This comment is neither here-nor-there. I'm just remarking that there is more than just COVID-19 that is going around this time of year: Flus, Sinus Congestion, Sneezing (Hayfever), General Allergies, etc. In addition to the possibility of COVID-19.

What were your symptoms? Did you get TESTED for the Virus?? Or just you think it because of the symptoms???

questccg wrote:No I'm

questccg wrote:
No I'm pointing it our for our "readers". There could be newbies reading this thread... And so I wanted to point this out. Because HONESTLY the mistake (that I feel I MADE) was not going FIRST to the Distributor and seeing if I could NEGOTIATE a deal for "re-selling" my FUTURE inventory.

Quest, this is good sense to point it out to the readers. Sometimes I forget this and I read the replys as if they were to me only (I know they were, but I know what you mean). You are right to do so.

questccg wrote:
Yeah they know how to price things: it's $x.00 for 500 and $x.00 + 500.00 for 1,000... There are economies of scale (and the price is usually NOT 2x as one would expect...) So it makes you want to order the higher quantity for a fraction of the "extra" pricing.

You are correct, this is the way they do things. But the difference in price, 500 and 1,000, it was worth going 1,000. It was not too different in price ordering 500 and 1,000, especially once you count shipping, port fees, etc.

questccg wrote:
This is not BAD, it's just a DELAY. When things resume the New Normal (IDK what Trump is doing in the USA, but Canada will be shutting it's borders to most people. Unless you are a trucker carrying food or livestock or something required for survival, etc. Otherwise no. We are still being asked to keep the Social Distancing for our own safety because of COVID-19).

Yes, it is a delay. As you point out, it isn't bad entirely. We are 'forced' to expand and adapt sooner, which is ok really. In a way it might be a good thing in the long run. We're not worried really. Regarding how will things be here? IDK really- you know things change sometimes daily (and in our state it is true). My personal opinion only, is that the lockdowns aren't good for the long term effects of the population since it will hurt our overall immunity and the economy, but regardless of what I think, we will see how things go. It is really state to state here so far. I forget that you're in Canada at times.

questccg wrote:
The problem is that I CAN'T sell anything. I'm in my forties but when you see me, I look like a 20-something. So first impressions are usually that I'm some (young) guy with no life experience. And believe me, I've been around... The sh!t I've seen how people treat other people is TERRIBLE.

That's WHY I turned to Game Designing. My work-related efforts proved that CONSULTING with people the way they are NOW ... and my whole industry has been poisoned by the "Human Resources" ... Those women are "awful" and don't give a cr@p about anyone but themselves. Try to get them to give you an HONEST chance to prove your capabilities and they are like "What the F- do I care?"

I personally am more of a designer and player of games than a seller too. My father is a pastor, yes, and used to be a lawyer and run a college department that has many things under it that (criminal justice, ethics, and cosmetology ironically). He is much better at human to human interaction, legal things, sales, etc. I get it. At the same time, he has much more experience than me, and I am learning as I go (I suppose everyone is). I work in public service and yes, I understand how people treat people- it's sad really. I hope I don't treat anyone poorly, but I do feel remorse if I find out that I have (I don't think many people feel remorse, as you pointed out- very sad indeed).

questccg wrote:
(I just got a freaken IDEA... Maybe you could have BROAD CATEGORIES for your personalities. Why? It could affect the method of PLAY. How? Well if someone proposed a RED card already ... And say RED = a Political Character... The other players CANNOT submit another RED card ... So it forces players to play beyond the box... so-to-speak!)

...

BTW please do BLOG here every now and then. I'd like to hear your progress ... And I do most of my daily activities around BGDF. Your type of efforts in the Game Design world are just what OTHER people need to HEAR... Self-Publishing is a "tough" road. But I'm sure you guys will do well at it. Cheers!

I like your idea- it is an interesting take on the game. We might consider it or some variant if we make a list of alternate ways to play maybe.

Also, I will keep you posted if I remember. I get busy and don't always find the time to get on, but I was thinking about the forum just the other day and thought I should try to get back into it. I really like BGDF and think it's my favorite game forum since it seems closer than others and/or you can actually get information and questions answered.

questccg wrote:
What were your symptoms? Did you get TESTED for the Virus?? Or just you think it because of the symptoms???

The first thing I noticed was irritated eyes and throat. It felt like I had breathed in smoke/a chemical. It was like a burning/ irritation type of feel in my throat/chest and breathing. I didn't think a lot of it that evening I noticed it and figured it might go away when I went to bed. The symptoms all hit at once the next day. The smoke/chemical feeling inside was strong and didn't go away for weeks. My chest was heavy, breath was short, and I couldn't breath well. Actually night was the worst and I woke up unable to breath a few times completely. Eventually I had to sleep sitting up so I could fall asleep and stay asleep. Heart rate was high most of the time, extreme chills and dizziness. Occasional aches. Not a lot of coughing, but at times. On and off headaches. Fever never went high. Oh, I was wo weak and tired I couldnt even get up for days. Eventually just trying to carry my kids toy bucket took me out of commission for a day. I've been building strength over the past weeks and now am about 90-95% back. Chest has been more tight the past few days since the temperature has dropped and I think the cold air is irritating it. Anyways...

My uncle has treated COVID patients for months, working in New York and now back home here. He said I had all the same symptoms that his patients have had and told me what to do at home to treat it as best I could. Also, I talked to a doctor through my insurance (to cover myself for work) and she said the same thing. They both told me to not get tested because the hospital would just send me home anyways since I'm a young healthy guy with no complicating issues and also they both said the test was worthless and they were seeing more than 1/3 of positive cases test negative anyways. Well, towards the end of the first week I went to the ER after I thought I was going to pass out. They didn't help much but I was at least re-hydrated well and they did all the tests on me. I tested negative for COVID, the flu, and everything. I've had the flu, pneumonia, and many things before and I know this was nothing like it. So take your pick if I had it or not. Both the one doctor and my uncle said I have it based on symptoms and they said the test is irreverent basically. The ER wouldn't tell me anything and said I tested negative for everything so I had nothing. Your call lol. Either way, I was off work for 3 weeks and am glad to be back and glad for it to be done. oh, my sister had the same thing too. We were never in contact with each other because of the lockdown/distancing, but we had the same symptoms but she was worse. She had to go to the hospital many times and regressed and even got some pneumonia in one lung later. She said she asked the doctor if she had it one time and he said no she didn't need to worry. When he left her room she herd him telling the nursed outside that if they were going to treat her then they needed full PPE because she definitely had it. So take it as you will lol.

Thanks,

-Austin

Quest, here are the FBA

Quest, here are the FBA storage fees right now:

https://sellercentral.amazon.com/gp/help/external/200612770?ref=efph_200...

And anything there for over a year gets an extra:

https://sellercentral.amazon.com/gp/help/external/200684750?language=en_...

$2.40/cuft during the XMas months is $0.40/game/month for me. That eats into my profits very quickly (and it's about 10x what my warehouse charges). And with the long-term fees making that $1.60/game/month, I'd better be careful about how much stuff I put there.

If you're not doing FBA and instead are drop-shipping, there are a lot of other restrictions I can't find right now about having XMas inventory, but I don't really recall the details.

Then add COVID restrictions to that.. yeesh.

Austin -- sounds like COVID!

Austin -- sounds like COVID! I'm glad you're recovering.. I'm a diabetic and a bit nervous about getting it myself..

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