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Can this rule still be used?

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X3M
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Going through my action point list. Trying to make it re-organised. And I spot a certain action that lost its meaning.

Quote:
+ 2 AP; Execute

  • A selected squad may fire upon units of the player itself or allied units. This can be one or more units. The projectiles are checked on if they can reach the targets. Terrain Influence is also taken into account.

  • The 2 AP costs are for the attacking squad only.

  • Targeted friends or allies will Return Fire if possible. Free of any costs. But only on the squad with Execute.

  • Extra bonus is forced.

Originally it was meant to preserve XP in the ancient version. But XP got banished. Having dead units remain as resources is also a no go due to the logistics of the mechanics.

Does anyone of you know if there is still any meaning possible to this rule? Besides of screwing over your ally?

Juzek
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Do you want to make some

Do you want to make some benefits of screwing over your allies? that could be interesting. But if that isn't going to be important, I say, the less rules the better!

perhaps you aren't entirely sure who your allies are... or if you could loose track of where are and accidently friendly fire. But if this isn't what you're going for, congrats for streamlining your game.

X3M
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Juzek wrote:Do you want to

Juzek wrote:
Do you want to make some benefits of screwing over your allies?

And your own units too.

Juzek wrote:
that could be interesting. But if that isn't going to be important, I say, the less rules the better!
Henceforth the removal. But I was wondering if anyone saw any use to it. It is only 1 rule. And frankly, due to the benefits it used to have, it costed 2 Action Points (AP) instead of 1 AP.

Juzek wrote:
perhaps you aren't entirely sure who your allies are... or if you could loose track of where are and accidently friendly fire.
We also got 1 Event Card doing this.

Juzek wrote:
But if this isn't what you're going for, congrats for streamlining your game.
I discovered that cutting in the hobby game also slowly directs me to a game that one day might become public.
I re-organised my AP list. Player in turn went from 11 to 10 options. The total options described went down from 26 to 19.
Not sure yet if I should do it that way. Perhaps keeping them in the old configuration makes it simpler for the players to search and choose.

A list of options for each player? (Player in turn, Targetted player, Other player(s) ) And then add the 19 explanations.

OR

A list of options including the explanations. Creating double explanations. There is even one tripple option.

I am also thinking of starting from scratch. And explain parts that return in multiple choices.
Movement and Attack separately. Then as third, that the combination of the 2 will create penalties.

X3M
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What if...

A kill score is tracked again. But used for something different than XP?? XP is too troublesome.

Should I convert kills into resources immediately? Thus they dissappear from the board. Into the account who made the kills?

Let me know what you guys think...

questccg
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Well if you converted the target of the attack to Res...

Maybe you need to have some kind of currency (for Troop producing). ATM I can only think of "Silver", it costs Silver to produce units. But when you kill a unit, you claim Silver for the kill. And immediately begin to rebuild your forces/troops. It is quicker for sure... But at the same time it may be more "chaotic" too... With several things going on: battle in the bush and rebuilding at base camp...!

let-off studios
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What Is Going On Here?

By attacking your own military units, what are you trying to emulate? How does this action make sense?

What's the situation where an army would be directed to shoot at its own soldiers? Can you just disband units instead? At the very least, disbanding instead of shooting at one's own army would reduce the need of attack rolls.

This might be some kind of fantasy or sci-fi game, where the attack units are maybe zombies, or hive-aliens, amoeboids, or some other form of "expendable" troops. But a modern army benefiting from this behaviour? I don't really understand what the game must be like if this is encouraged.

X3M
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Putting down, the cripple. Training on, expenisve stuff

If a medic is out of reach. If the tanks are far from the repair bay.
Retreating was an option.

But if the enemy could kill and gain XP for it. Why not shoot your own in the back to keep the XP for oneself.

Obviously units at full health, would not be shot.
And walls would make great target practise. The XP couldn't be bought otherwise.

***

That was a very old reason.
But when XP was removed from the game.
So was the reason.
You wouldn't need to save the XP.
Nor would one have a need for training.

Dissasembling is a good replacement.
Without the roll would be great.
If another squad does this.
It can be put back into the game.

As an Action done by anything that has the knowledge. The cost could remain 2 AP.
The RPS would help, but I think that the "weapon costs" should be used for a one on one trade.
That way, production facilities, etc. Are allowed to do this.

I need to re-check what the refunds where when production was canceled or stopped. I believe it was 60 percent and 40 percent. Maybe dissasembling can return 40 or 20 percent. What do you guys think?

***

I like that idea.
Are there other idea's, regarding removing your own?

X3M
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You just gave me an idea.

questccg wrote:
Maybe you need to have some kind of currency (for Troop producing). ATM I can only think of "Silver", it costs Silver to produce units. But when you kill a unit, you claim Silver for the kill. And immediately begin to rebuild your forces/troops. It is quicker for sure... But at the same time it may be more "chaotic" too... With several things going on: battle in the bush and rebuilding at base camp...!

Resources and production are 2 phases on themselves.
You are right if getting resources is done during a battle.
Looting...hmmm

That one could be added to an attack? But how to male this practical. Do I do ranged looting?
Or should I have another squad in standby that can move in and out?

Squad A attacks the enemy, 1 AP. Squad B is allowed to simultainiously loot the enemy for 1 AP.
The loot is 20 or 40 percent of the original price.
The looting army needs to be able to go 1 on 1 in terms of material destroyed too!

So if 1200 gets destroyed. The looting army needs to be at least 1200 big and within moving range (forth and back)
With 40 percent refund, the loot is 480.
Maybe the looting and dissasembling need to be a higher factor?

A weak army is roughly 1/3rd in health. That is 33 percent. And when making kills, that is also 33 percent. 40 percent for a dissasembly sounds like just a little more. Maybe this has to be 60 percent, just like the cancelation.
Looting could remain 40 percent as if it is in the destruction category. But 40 percent of 33 percent isn't much. You need to attack and loot with a plan.

PS.
Looting is only done on enemies. Or your own troops that will die by the enemies.
If both players plan to loot..... idk.
To keep that simple, I guess each get half of the share?

questccg
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Use of Chems instead of Medics

You could always go "crazy psycho bitch" on your opponent with Chems for wounded Soldiers/Units! lol

The idea is you use Chems and that soldier no longer feels any pain and goes full force on the enemy ... disregarding any physical ailment or wound that he may have suffered.

Instead of "removing your own", why not turn them into unpredictable behemoths all doped up on stuff to make them feel invincible ... knowing that in fact their wounds may be too serious to continue living after the war or battle is done?!

This could be a timed effect. Like lasting 3 rounds or something like that. And then afterwards those Soldiers are ultimately LOST... So do some extra damage and then lose those Soldiers/Units for good ... As explained above, mostly unrecoverable wounds would lead to self-sacrifice.

That another angle for sure...!

X3M
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questccg wrote:You could

questccg wrote:
You could always go "crazy psycho bitch" on your opponent with Chems for wounded Soldiers/Units! lol

The idea is you use Chems and that soldier no longer feels any pain and goes full force on the enemy ... disregarding any physical ailment or wound that he may have suffered.

Instead of "removing your own", why not turn them into unpredictable behemoths all doped up on stuff to make them feel invincible ... knowing that in fact their wounds may be too serious to continue living after the war or battle is done?!

This could be a timed effect. Like lasting 3 rounds or something like that. And then afterwards those Soldiers are ultimately LOST... So do some extra damage and then lose those Soldiers/Units for good ... As explained above, mostly unrecoverable wounds would lead to self-sacrifice.

That another angle for sure...!


I do have some that can blow themselves up at the end of their lives. Especially when their health runs low.

But a weapon that can turn your own into something different.... idk.
The rules should be for each design.
Just keep in mind, the game can have hundreds, if not, billions of different desgins.

Maybe a weapon that the targets will trade health for more damage. But that would be a self inflicting weapon. Stim packs exist. 1 health down on 5 health total. Damage increases by 67 percent. The gun has an accuracy of 3, but becomes 5. And the other guy had for one round an extra weapon of accuracy 4 added to the accuracy of 6.

3/6 》 5/6
6/6 》 6/6 + 4/6
These 2 guys where 50/50 designs.
Support got less benefit.
Meat got more benefit.

X3M
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Results

Looting

I have created the Action Looting.
It costs 2 AP and can only be used in combination with an Action that contains an attack.
It will occur after the attack, but has to be announced before the dice roll.
I coppied sections of other actions. And compiled the correct order. It made me change my drive-by shooting a bit. For better understanding.

The squad that does the looting has to complete the entire action. It cannot stop its movement. And it has to divide its movement points in half to determine if they can reach the target location. If intercepted, perhaps only a smaller portion gets through.
The looting squad value that fits in location, and the value of the fallen victims are compared. The lowest value will be the looting value.

Safe to say that if only 100 out of 6000 is free. Only 100 can enter that location. And 100 can be looted. If there is room of 3000 while 100 has fallen victim, only 100 is looted. And if 3000 is the room again, but the looting squad itself is 100, then again only 100 can be looted while the other 2900 is lost.

All 3 categories of players can make use of looting since all 3 categories of players can do a form of attack during their round.

Destruction cancelation is 40% of the value.
Cancelation by other means is 60% of the value.
So for looting I will use the 40% of the value: If you manage to destroy 6000 at once, you can get 2400 in value as looter. This makes the total difference between players 140%. In the long run, a player with efficient looting can be twice as strong (other math included).

Thank you for this (indirect) idea @QuestCCG

***

Disassemble

...Under construction...

Disassemble is more of a cancelation instead of destruction, thus 60% of the value is returned.

I don't know if I should do this within movement range or attack range. Movement range sounds better.
All I know is that I also want to give buildings this capability (there is personal working there).
Maybe both sides may move towards each other and meet halfway?
During this action, one of the 2 sides may be shot. Or I should include a rule that if either side is shot, the disassemble is canceled and only 1 AP is deducted from the disassembler.

But this would also mean that only those who have a movement of 2 or more are able to disassemble or being disassembled. If it is 1 or less for both parties. It would mean that both parties need to be in the same location.

When I look at RTS games:
C&C:
- Vehicles and infantry could be sold by standing right next to the walls.
- Vehicles could be sold by standing on the repair bay.
- Structures could be sold directly.
Warzone2100:
- Vehicles and Cyborg could be recycled by moving back into any production facility.
- Structures could be recycled by ordering a Truck to disassemble the structure.

I honestly only know about these 2 games that do the selling stuff.
Battlezone II is another one, but memories don't serve me well enough in this regard. Maybe it was only the "looting" in that game.

X3M
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In short

In regards to disassembling. I would like to hear about your point of view on how this can be done in board games.

Where this has to be an action instead of an attack or move. What should the rules be?

If it is not an action, what should the rules be?

X3M
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Self removal

Oof, I totaly forgot about this "abuse".

So whatever I think about, it would be "a helping hand". "Assisted suicide", stuff like that.

I have been thinking about the RTS examples.
Sending the units in question to the origin is an option. And the range of the production facilities can help in this. So the only action they need to take is move into range. This would also help in recycling structures in range of the big guy.

So in short:
That what can produce it, can remove it by the same rules. It will be both production and removal in the same round. Where removal is Obvious part of resource managment. So I give it a place, just prior to production placement. It will not be an action that costs AP. But a basic phase in the game.

While production has an announcement. So should the removal be. And both will have their completion at the end of the round.

***

Partly self sacrifice (proposed by QuestCCG)
YES! This can be a thing. I will add this to the list of weapon adjustments.
It really will be sacrificing health which will be a 1 time projectile.
1 health with a movement of 7 would for example yield 2 damage at a range of 2. Stuff like that :)

The good part of this is that I also have 0 health suicide units (Scarab of the Reaver, Starcraft). These will have a 4 times higher damage than their costs but live only 1 round. The same can be done with the last health is being used for extra damage.

A true suicidal unit has even 5 times more damage than a normal weapon.
4 damage and +1 damage that equals the last 1/3th of the health.
If this complete suicide is added as weapon while there is another weapon. We speak of a choice. But the choice is a 100% addition.
The partly suicide effect would be something extra. But how to differentiate between the 3?
We got: Normal, partly suicide, complete suicide.
I need to ponder on this.

***

Summary:

Looting replaces Execute.
Where not your own or allies are killed. But the enemy is killed and a second group rushes in to get resources from the corpses (that lie rotting in the setting sun)
Return rate is 40%

Disassembling is added to the main phases of a round.
The disassembly is right before the production placement.
Production capabilities is sacrificed for this.
Return rate is 60%

Partly suicidal behavior is added.
But I need to flesh this out.

X3M
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A little discord chat with QuestCCG

A questions that came up.
How does a round look like?

-Determining the order of players for this round
-Income; Resources and Strategy Points
-Choice of production and future placement check
-The Action Points (AP)
-Disassembling of structures and units
-Placement of structures and units
-Drawing (and using Event Cards)

The Action Points phase contains the Looting as a choice. Players have a total of 7 AP to spend. Looting costs 2 AP, while you need to attack that costs at least 1 AP. I just realized that a high cooldown weapon will work wonders in combination with looting. Mhuhahahaha!! (I am sure, someone will find something again to abuse this more)

X3M
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Logistics in the game

Due to logistics in the game. I placed the disassembling part within the placement part of the manual.
It is only 3 short rules added.
It fits like a cat in a box. :)

***

I guess, only the costs calculations of "stim packs" needs to be fine tuned. It also made me realize that "suicide" would be 4* the damage. Plus 1/3th of the health.
It used to be 3* the damage. Plus 1/3th of the health resulting in 4* the damage.

It is kinda neat that the math is telling me that 5 1/3 damage is better balanced than 4 damage for suicide units :D

To avoid 5 1/3 damage. Giving these units a bit higher body costs will do well.

A normal body would be a weight of 50, 5 health, and indirectly 3 health. Adding 16.7 weight to the damage for suicide. 50 weigth on a suicide weapon is 4 damage.
So 1/3th of 4 is 1 1/3.
I cannot increase the costs of the suicide weapon to increase the costs of the addition. But I can accomidate this with tricks.

If a suicide weapon costs 60 instead of 50. The damage would be 4 2/3. Adding that 1 1/3 would result in 6 damage in the game. Which is a nice round figure.

If a body costs 75 instead of 50. The damage added would be 2. Which again results in 6 damage.

Now we have 2 options:
A cost of 110. Or a cost of 125 where the unit is slightly more durable or faster.

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