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Why NOT to CCG/TCG

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questccg
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I know often people are offering advice about NOT creating a CCG/TCG. Those acronyms stand for Collectible Card Game (CCG) or Trading Card Game (TCG). If you are still unfamiliar with the "genre", they are two (2) very popular types of "Card Games" each with their own dueling or battling combat system.

Examples of well known success are things like Pokemon TCG or Magic: the Gathering CCG. These two (2) card games account for a significant portion of the market.

So naturally people who PLAY these games and hear about the millions of Global players around the World ... Think that there could be room for more CCGs/TCGs and aim to TRY to create their own "versions" of what could be popular. But there is a problem with the exact "picture".

While "designing" a CCG/TCG may be hard... It's not the reason for WHY Game Designers should IGNORE this type of game. Let me start my explanation and once you read this, you can Agree or Disagree with my conclusions. But first let me present to you more "angles" and "facts" to increase your awareness into the "CCG/TCG" genres.

1. It's an all-or-nothing business

What I mean is that "all" the parts of the business need to be in place. You need to be able to MANUFACTURE "volumes" of card upwards of 100,000+ cards in order to reach out to the market.

Secondly, you need to remember that organized play is a very important aspect to the game (for high visibility). Without it ... The very competitive nature of the game would be lost.

2. The business model is "specific"

Selling booster packs of 10 or more cards is what it is all about. Yes and no. Yes, the cards are packaged in booster packs and are sold for individual purchase or purchase by the case. Store owners who actively participate in Magic shops ... Hate the "case" because they need to sell upwards of 60% of a case before they see any profit. When they sell a GAME, they get 50% retail markup and don't need to wait for players to purchase a pre-fixed quantity of booster packs.

3. Advertising and promotion

It requires a lot of promotion to get a game known in the industry. And with currently games like Pokemon, Magic and Yu-Gi-Oh! There isn't much room for ANOTHER game ... Unless it was HEAVILY "advertised".

Player who play and collect Magic ONLY play Magic. Same goes for Pokemon and Yu-Gi-Oh! While it may be true that some players collect cards from several of these games... The fact is that it will be VERY hard to convert a Magic player to some "unknown" CCG/TCG.

And that's the main problem: being "unknown". While your CCG/TCG may be awe inspiring... Nobody outside of your town city (if you are a real hustler) will know what your game is all about.

4. First to market

Another reason your CCG/TCG might fail is because of how the existing market for a CCG/TCG is already occupied by another player who was FIRST to market. Basically all this means is that there is someone who ALREADY has the customers wrapped up in their IP (Intellectual Property).

Pokemon is for 9-12 year older and Magic is from 13+. I believe that the Yu-Gi-Oh! players are maybe 12 to 18 and overlap a bit too.

When I say ADVERTISING... It's doesn't need to be Ads. It can be like in the Pokemon case where there are TV Cartoons that follow the pursuits of a young Pokemon Trainer (same with Yu-Gi-Oh!)... And it's a show that kids love to watch ... So it takes HUGE revenue and sales to have a weekly broadcasted show ... Kids love to watch.

5. Magic Arena

This is yet another example about HOW not to compete with the BIG players (such as Wizards of The Coast). They have MMO (Massive Multiplier Online) games which are there to encourage players to spend their hard earned monies into virtual decks which allow them to subsequently play online.

This took a while ... But an older, extinct TCG called "Chaotic" did this before all the more experienced CCG/TCG players even had their platforms. But again they had PHYSICAL cards and ONLINE play which allowed both to be organized and have tournaments for money and prizes.

So this brings me to requiring HUGE investment in TECHNOLOGY and software.

6. Pokemon Go

There is always a better product or an adaptation of a derivative work that could introduce NEW players to the Pokemon world. Again FIRST to market and huge advertising... And some people question the popularity with 30 billion cards sold... It seems to have a strong base in the USA ... But people are wondering: is Pokemon TCG dying???

Which bring me to a bit of what I know (and so do you now) that CCGs/TCGs are not games that we can grow organically. We (most Designers) lack the funds required to promote the game. And it's tough with most of the niche players that are currently operating. There's even a OVERLAP as I explained.

The problem is that there is NO MARKET for your CCG/TCG. No matter how cool you may think it is... I have a CCG of my own that I know will NEVER see the market. Why? Because you have NEVER HEARD of "Quest Adventure Cards(tm)"... And most probably you never will. I don't have a million dollars to market the game to everyone interested in CCGs/TCGs. And that's probably the same situation for MOST Game Designers.

You think that "If I build it... Players will come!" WRONG! People are not necessarily looking for a NEW product especially when they are playing all kinds of EXISTING ones who claimed the market and came FIRST ahead of your own CCG/TCG ideas.

I offer this as FREE advice. A critical eye and point-of-view. I would love to do "Quest Adventure Cards(tm)", a Second Edition, but again without the HUGE finances required to make the game KNOWN and POPULAR... I don't see the game making any HUGE traction even IF it was VERY CLEVER.

But know this: I am like you! I'd love for my own CCG to become more popular and be played by people around the world. The TRUTH is that this was sort of a DREAM. Now that I understand ALL the variables, issues and requirements, I (and now YOU) have a clearer understanding WHY so MANY CCGs/TCGs FAIL "out-there" in the MARKET.

It was a SLOW night... So I figured I'd share some insights into CCGs/TCGs and why many people insist that they are the WRONG FORMAT if you want to be successful in the Board Game Design profession.

Cheers! BTW if you have questions/comments/feedback please feel free to share...

FrankM
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Very useful

Very useful advice. I'll just add, for any who might want to look up the specifics, that the economics around a CCG/TCG is what's called a market with network effects. The number of existing players directly impacts the value that any given player gets out of the game.

It is an uphill battle competing against an entrenched competitor with the benefit of network effects. A new entrant would need an overwhelming technical/value advantage to make a dent in the market.

When a brand new networkable market appears, customer expectations matter, and the competitor with deeper pockets has an advantage creating more buzz. That advantage is not insurmountable, however, until it materializes into a real user base. The right words in the right ears can sway that kind of market quickly (the way that Blu-Ray suddenly outmaneuvered HD-DVD).

X3M
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Devotion

I also think that devotion to one game is a big part of the succes.

Constantly looking at how players perceive your game. Then add things in order to make it more interesting.

nswoll
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Great advice

Yes to everything questccg said. A perfect synopsis of the reasons to avoid CCG/TTG

I've noticed new designers often make 1 of 3 designs - a Cards Against Humanity clone (people submit cards to be judged), a two-player card battle system (either CCG or otherwise), or a "take that" card game (you have cards that either help you get the McGuffin or stop your opponents)

None of those are good ideas for various reasons.

questccg
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One more comment

I would seriously STICK AWAY from "Magic: Arena". While watching videos from Tolarian College ... The Professor explains how WOTC are removing some cards from the rotation. What this means is that some of your decks with some of your favorite cards can be banned from play (removed from rotation).

And this is a well-known fact that "Magic: Arena" does this to incentive players to spend MORE money and buy newer decks... Because the BOOSTER packs come from newer editions, banning cards FORCES players to continually spend more money on packs and buying new cards.

Seeing as all assets are DIGITAL and part of your account, it is EASY for WOTC to "manage" the cards that are no longer in rotation...

So players be aware of what you are getting into by playing such a game! These MMOs are NOT FREE... They are PAY-TO-PLAY. No money means no competitiveness...

questccg
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Also ...

nswoll wrote:
...I've noticed new designers often make 1 of 3 designs - a Cards Against Humanity clone (people submit cards to be judged), a two-player card battle system (either CCG or otherwise), or a "take that" card game (you have cards that either help you get the McGuffin or stop your opponents)...

This is very true. Even for myself. My first game was a Take-That card game... Focusing heavily on "set collection". I've since learned a LOT about "next generation" games and that's how I came around to designing TradeWorlds (TW).

Everyone needs to start at some PLACE/POINT. We had nice artwork for "Quest Adventure Cards(tm)" (Quest). But not enough knowledge about the marketplace to SELL to players in the market. Or for example CREATE a demand for that game (Quest). It was a valuable lesson learning the insides of the business (at least some) ... But there is plenty to continue to learn... And I've got a few concepts still worth something IHMO!

X3M
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Banning cards

The one thing that proves that your game has flaws that can't be fixed with normal methods.

larienna
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I thinks there is also a

I thinks there is also a matter of popularity and company trust. Large companies has stronger backbones. Players won't jump into a TCG unless the company behind it has some sort of reputation and be able to push their game correctly to the public.

Which brings to the second problem is that a game must be popular. I once said, "People play Magic, because people play Magic". In order to play a game, you need to find somebody else that also made a choice of taking the jump. That is way harder to find players than owning a copy of Settlers of Catan and asking if they want to play.

Yes, you could supply deck for players that are already made, but in many games, the strategy of the game is deck building. So removing that aspect from the gameplay is unattractive.

questccg
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Deck Construction = Player Confusion

larienna wrote:
...Yes, you could supply deck for players that are already made, but in many games, the strategy of the game is deck building. So removing that aspect from the gameplay is unattractive.

Actually this is ANOTHER problem: Deck Construction. If you pre-build a Deck for SOMEONE ELSE... That other person doesn't know what is the STRATEGY (or the HOW to USE) of that deck.

This reminds me when I was visiting a friend and one of his buddies came over with a couple Yu-Gi-Oh! Decks. He asked me to choose which deck I wanted ... But I knew nothing about HOW to PLAY this deck... What was the strategy and optimal play behind it. And ultimately HOW could I WIN using the pre-built deck.

As such I lost the game to some weird mechanic that he bolstered to be able to discard one of my card each turn, etc. I couldn't get any stronger monsters out to attack him even IF I had up until that point of time done most of the damage to him.

Random Deck Construction is another FLAW of the CCG/TCG model!

Note #1: Same goes with a couple Magic decks. They were Pre-Cons that I purchased for $9.99 USD. Adam (@ARG) who is quite familiar with Magic helped me "up-grade" the deck from weak cards to some stronger ones. He's even offered to help teach me how to "play" the deck.

But I've been busy and we've been "un-synchronized" so I have not had a chance to discuss playing the deck.

However here is EXACTLY the point: if it takes someone else to help you customize your deck and then it takes someone to explain the optimal strategy of the deck (How do you play the deck) which is very important in Magic ... Otherwise you will most definitely LOSE the match.

This clearly means that *NEW* players are a bit "confused" as to HOW to play the game... They want to learn how to BUILD their OWN deck (and this apparently isn't even a thing nowadays) and other facets which are not really part of the game. Using Pre-Cons or Deck used by the Pros is how Magic is played... So no Deck construction unless it's to improve or change the strategy of a GIVEN deck...

let-off studios
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What Ever Happened...

All this talk about CCGs and TCGs makes me wonder... Question for everybody: Do you or does anyone you know actually play Keyforge?

I'v been to my FLGS a couple times each in the last several months, and I think the last I saw of that game was a giveaway in December 2019. Is there anything going on with it nowadays?

questccg
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Here's what I found on REDDIT

https://www.reddit.com/r/KeyforgeGame/comments/c0vzwv/is_keyforge_dying_...

Seems like the game is not that popular in organized play but that people are still playing the game "at home"?! Whatever that means. I have no idea what this means for the Product itself or if FLGS are still carrying the product...

People around the world are saying that the availability of product is in decline. And that seems to be a pattern. "People playing the game at home" to me signals "play with what you have" and not "play the next big release" like Magic.

That's another ISSUE with CCGs/TCGs: LIFESPAN.

Sure you may create a game that is HOT for a year or two... But the question is "what do you do about LONGEVITY???" That's why I said it was an "all-or-nothing" type of business model. No tournaments means no organized play... And believe it or not... It's actually a VERY IMPORTANT aspect to game play (and a direct correlation between how popular a game is and how well the market share is growing, stalling or dying).

Note #1: The reddit article is from almost 2 years ago... To be precise: June 15, 2019. That I believe was BEFORE the Pandemic ... So maybe things are not looking so good for FFG's game... This is merely observation, I know with the Pandemic the only true winners are WOTC Magic: Arena (because it's online, an MMO and available to play).

larienna
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No, I have not played

No, I have not played keyforge, still I found the concept pretty audacious and would be curious of the results. So I would have liked to play a game, but would not want to buy any cards.

X3M
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idk

let-off studios wrote:
All this talk about CCGs and TCGs makes me wonder... Question for everybody: Do you or does anyone you know actually play Keyforge?

I'v been to my FLGS a couple times each in the last several months, and I think the last I saw of that game was a giveaway in December 2019. Is there anything going on with it nowadays?


First time hearing of it.

questccg
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If everyone was like you...

larienna wrote:
...So I would have liked to play a game, but would not want to buy any cards.

There would be NO games on the market. You'd be too pre-occupied with what is the better game instead of doing like a lot of folks do: buy both. See that's the thing, gamers need to "buy-into" game to TRY them. lol

Most people don't buy games to figure out if they LIKE them or NOT. They buy them because they want to have FUN. Although the term "FUN" is very subjective even a simple game can be FUN and worth the purchase.

The better mentality is something like: "Hmm... I may buy 4 or 5 packs to TRY it out... And see if it's something that I LIKE!" That sort of HELPS a game grow...

But if you are saying you would ONLY play for FREE... Well then only a limited amount of catalog is available to you. Whatever the games are that are at the Pub on St-Denis (Randolph Pub) or on Ontario Street (La Recreation)...

Cheers!

questccg
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Sharing some information

X3M wrote:
First time hearing of it.

Here is a WIKI concerning the game:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KeyForge

Notice that the game has NOT been around a very long time (November 15, 2018). Obviously "organized play" is problematic in a Global Pandemic ... This might have "hurt" Richard Garfield and FFGs CCG initiative.

That wiki also has a link/URL to the Keyforge Website too... So if you want to learn more about the game, you can check-out the official FFG website:

http://www.keyforgegame.com

Note #1: KeyForge prides itself as NOT requiring Deck Construction: all decks are purchased AS-IS and are meant to be played out-of-the-box.

My apologies for the earlier confusion... @larienna: you only need to BUY one "kit/pack" and that is enough to play. There is no Deck Construction with this game. And you cannot USE cards from one deck "combined" with another... This is NOT permitted (and there is something about the "cardbacks" which makes them unique and obvious that you cannot mix-and-match cards from different packs/kits). You can't even sell SINGLES because decks are all DIFFERENT (no "net decking").

Note #2: The REAL "interesting" part is that the DECKS are all managed by Asmodee (a collaboration of Asmodee, Days of Wonder, FFG and Z-Man Games). Some kind of Single-Sign-On for Keyforge (being one of the digital assets). Oh my, Globalization has hit the Gaming Industry!

questccg
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A side note

It seems like MANY "Mid-Sized" Publishers were bought over by Asmodee in France. Although they do have a presence in Canada ... I'm not sure about the USA (excluding their acquisitions). What I mean is I don't know if Asmodee themselves have offices in the USA or not.

Like I said, they do own some Publishers like Plaid Hat Games and Z-Man Games ... As a part of their purchase of F2Z entertainment (I believe).

F2Z was a Canadian Publisher and Asmodee acquired them...

Anyways it seems like nowadays there aren't many INDEPENDENT Publishers that are NOT globalized. All that is left are the smaller players which are either under the supervision of one or more Game Designers with a complement of staff that allow those companies to survive by creating and publishing more of their OWN content.

questccg
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Just following-up on some of the NEWS

It seems like Plaid Hat Games has broken away from the Asmodee Group. Here is a BGG post with more information about this:

https://boardgamegeek.com/blogpost/101169/most-plaid-hat-games-leaves-as...

I found this a bit by accident ... But it also CONFIRMS that "Fantasy Flight Games" (FFG) was acquired by Asmodee Group! That is just MEGA news. The way I always saw it was FFG was the Direct Competitor of WOTC. With some well known IP like Lord of the Rings LCG... To me that is. I don't know if this is really true (maybe FFG is smaller than WOTC).

But in any case this confirms the product catalog page I mentioned earlier as Asmodee managing digital lists/assets of the FFGs games...

X3M
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That wiki

So the same creator as for MtG. Interesting.

The concept of mana is abolished. I like that idea.
But I don't like the fact that a player can play any card of a house. I guess I need to see it in action.

It seems that deck building is something that is not nesesary. Perhaps to avoid synergy that goes snowballing?

Either way, a big guy started another game. And has the connections, funds and tools to make it happen.

I previously wanted to suggest, designing an additon to existing games like MtG. But now this idea seems less useful.

lewpuls
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other drawbacks

I understand game shop owners are uninterested in other CCGs. They already have Magic, which is something like half of the entire tabletop game market. Why risk anything else? Perhaps that, ultimately, is what happened to Keyforge?

Another drawback of CCGs - they require constant maintenance. The idea is that, year to year, the intention is that players will break the game (solve it), and then the maintainers will change it enough (new cards, banning cards) that it needs to be broken again. If the same kind of deck wins the big prizes two years in a row, the maintainers have failed. (This from a panel at GenCon or Origins that included Richard Garfield.)

questccg
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I agree with you but...

lewpuls wrote:
I understand game shop owners are uninterested in other CCGs. They already have Magic, which is something like half of the entire tabletop game market.

This is very TRUE. Nobody is really wanting to GAMBLE their business and steady source of income ... for some UNKNOWN CCG/TCG. Remember if KeyForge is having troubles (and it was designed by Richard Garfield) ... What on Earth makes you some "nobody" designer think that they can produce something BETTER. I'm not saying it's not possible... But I have explained above reasons for poor market penetration.

lewpuls wrote:
Another drawback of CCGs - they require constant maintenance. The idea is that, year to year, the intention is that players will break the game (solve it), and then the maintainers will change it enough (new cards, banning cards) that it needs to be broken again...

Well this sort of matters but is not necessarily true.

I know I've blogged about Quest, 2nd Edition (Questv2) which is supposed to be a CCG. It's sort of like a BIG ADVENTURE and there are SIX (6) Starting Quests part of the initial offer. Each Quest has 54 cards. That means 324 cards for that initial offer. Of course elements from each Quest can be mix-and-matched ... But the idea remains the same: you are TRYING to complete Quests.

So if maintenance means publishing six (6) *NEW* Quests... Well then that makes 100% sense. But banning cards is not part of the deal in Questv2. Will players grow tired of the OLDER quests and want to play the newer ones — IDK?! It's a CCG but a different kind of one.

Again the game (Questv2) is still in an early design phase. But the truth of the matter, I don't think it will ever be realized because I just don't have the resources and connections to make a CCG that will GO ON indefinitely... Much like Magic from WOTC.

Note #1: And why is longevity an issue??? Because success is never INSTANTANEOUS. It's about BRANDING and RECOGNITION. Some "unknown" CCG/TCG has NO RECOGNITION. How do you expect to make a difference in the Tabletop Market without knowledge of YOUR IP. And why do you need LONGEVITY in the first place??? To have some reasonable or moderate amount of SUCCESS in terms of investing TIME, EFFORT and MONIES into a project that at some point needs to pay and offer some kind of profit.

I mean it's nice to publish games out-of-pocket... But at some point you will need to find a way to earn monies from your projects or simply consider Game Design a hobby or just something that interested you at some point in time only (a passing interest).

But for the people who want this to be a career and be the focus of their daily lives (such as running a lab with a small crew) ... Well the financial returns need to "exist" if you are to make a small business of your ventures.

lewpuls
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Screwups

CCG, I think the thinking behind maintenance is that if you keep introducing cards, you are going to screw up, if only that someone will find a strategy you didn't think of, and that didn't turn up in playtesting. Then your only resort is banning the card.

And if you're not introducing new cards, is it really a CCG?

questccg
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Depends on the nature of the game

lewpuls wrote:
And if you're not introducing new cards, is it really a CCG?

Well this depends a bit on the NATURE of the CCG. Like if you look at KeyForge, you'll see that there is no Mana or Deck Construction. And that each deck is fully-playable out of a box which provides you ENOUGH cards to play "that deck".

So in reality, all you need is ONE (1) Deck. Or one purchase...

This philosophy is in stark opposition of Magic where the Secret Lairs only have three (3) cards and cost upwards of $29.99 USD. And the sheer amount of those "Secret Lairs" which are made available during the year... Upwards of 20+ different products for different tastes too...

Or maybe a Secret Lair which has only seven (7) cards and costs $29.99 USD also... It depends on which one you would like to purchase.

So maybe the CONCEPT itself is the reason that KeyForge is not doing so well... If all you need is one (1) Deck and you buy it like a Pre-Con ... Doesn't mean that players will go out and buy MORE decks if they are HAPPY with the first one they already bought!

If you want to sustain a business (Brick & Mortar) you need to have a lot of re-occurring sales. And Magic is great at that. So this means that you can have MAGIC SHOPS that mostly feature Magic: the Gathering and sell board games as a secondary market to increase their profitability... I know of one such store and there are a lot of tables (for Magic players) and little of inventory (visible). They do have a shelf at the BACK of the store which has a bunch of Board Games for Sale and they do have some LCGs also for sale too...

Maybe the goal was simple: $20 USD and get 100,000 sales = $2M in sales... IDK ... Maybe there was a lifespan with an exit strategy... I really don't know that much about the game other than knowing that EACH DECK would be UNIQUE (no duplicates ever made).

Again, there may be an issue with lifespan and FFG having a real exit strategy with the game... Maybe it was only supposed to last a couple years, IDK.

FrankM
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Introducing new cards

There are a few strategies for inducing players to churn through new cards (provided you keep them engaged with the game).

1. Only allow cards from the previous N releases into tournaments.

2. Have a general upward trend of power creep.

3. Release cards or rules that dethrone the dominant strategies of prior releases.

The first would feel like straight-up money grabbing. The second introduces a kind of "inflation" into the in-game economy, prodding investment but also risks prodding resentment. The third one seems the fairest, and in fact is used by professional sports leagues.

It's easy to screw up the PR advantages of strategy 3, however, if you use blunt instruments like banning old cards. It's basically an admission that your designers didn't think things through, and gives a big middle finger to people who spent good money on acquiring the now-banned card/combo.

If I were designing such a game from the ground up, I would try to arrange the releases themselves into some king of RPS5 or something, and use strategy 3 to keep players re-designing their decks with a very gradual power creep to get players to buy new rather than rifle through stuff from 5 or 10 releases ago. But it's okay if some older card suddenly has a synergy with a new card, so long as it's not overwhelming.

But all of that is if one could start a new CCG from scratch. We just saw a zillion reasons why that's not a good business plan.

X3M
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Adding more RPS

This has always been an option.

If one deck beats another deck. And is often more used. Make it so that new cards can beat this one deck.

I got the same principle going for my games.

questccg
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To address some of your valid points

FrankM wrote:
1. Only allow cards from the previous N releases into tournaments.

This would mean that the game is "pay-to-play"... And forces players to buy NEW releases otherwise they are not competitive. This will also force players to buy more cards to keep up with tournament players.

And if like Magic players play the Deck the PROs use... Well this becomes expensive with each tournament and can lead to broken decks. It basically means: "You play only what we ALLOW you to play."

I think that would be majorly unacceptable.

FrankM wrote:
2. Have a general upward trend of power creep.

This is what I am "sort of" planning with "Crystal Heroes" (CH). Say I introduce a MIGHTY "Red Dragon" as a Beast. It's a VERY STRONG and MIGHTY card with HIGH ATTACK and can virtually defeat and defend area around the monster.

But this means at most 1 to 2 attacks against fairly WEAKER opponents. So it's a bit like a SUPER STRONG monster ... but can still only defeat one or two units and it can control territory based on a pre-defined pattern.

Therefore YEAH it's one Bad-@ss Game Tile... But it doesn't BREAK the game. Sure higher, stronger units/monsters will make fighting EASIER. It still doesn't mean that they OVERPOWER the board/play area.

FrankM wrote:
3. Release cards or rules that dethrone the dominant strategies of prior releases.

See I don't think there are over-arching strategies in CH. There are 10 classes of card types and 9 houses. The stats are all PATHs, some which have decisions others are linear. The stats are the variable part of the Game Tiles which make the strategy have more depth than a game of Chess.

It's not like Magic where you have infinite amount of ways to play the game... Because it is so variable and the card play is different from one Constructed Deck to another.

But it doesn't mean that "customization" is not a possibility and that there are various flavors of the same card (Common, Uncommon and Rare).

FrankM wrote:
But all of that is if one could start a new CCG from scratch. We just saw a zillion reasons why that's not a good business plan.

Indeed ... I'm taking a BIG chance with CH. Will people buy into the game??? IDK. I hope that the art sways some backers my way. But it's the whole: do we think this is a GOOD even GREAT game?!

questccg
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Just because I wanted to debate this a little

In my particular situation, I am choosing Option #2 (where Heroes become just a bit stronger as we go forwards). Not all ... Some. And there are different "Play-Styles" which can also change the types of Game Tiles permissible in a game.

Example #1: "Carbon" = BOTH players must use that same basic fundamental Game Tiles... Only exception are the rarity: common, uncommon and rare.

So you essentially need a LOT of Game Tiles to make this possible. It's a PRO variant that is ultimately played by PROs in tournaments. My idea is that you need 2 out of 3 games to win the tournament or to advance from one position to another... Something like that.

Examples #2: "Race Wars" = You must have ALL the same "House" of Game Tiles. This means ONLY ONE (1) House. Again possible with more Game Tiles purchased; this is an ADVANCED Play-Style.

I'm still working on the game. Mainly with the content I want to make available in the First Edition of the game. But "slow creep" makes the game better and better just "very slowly"! Cheers.

Guest1
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Couldn't you make a card game

Couldn't you make a card game collectible by just releasing a lot different versions of the same cards, like with different art on them? Your game could only use twenty cards, but every set of cards has randomized art on each one.

questccg
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I'm going in the opposite direction...

Guest1 wrote:
Couldn't you make a card game collectible by just releasing a lot different versions of the same cards, like with different art on them? Your game could only use twenty cards, but every set of cards has randomized art on each one.

Because ART is very COSTLY, I'm going in the opposite direction: customized stats which vary per rarity (acting as small bonuses) with the SAME art as their common or uncommon versions.

That's another PROHIBITIVE aspect to CCGs/TCGs: the price of ART! Getting 300+ illustrations made is very expensive and even with a successful crowdfunding campaign, it is very demanding (financially).

So I am reusing the SAME IDENTICAL art on three (3) different VERSIONS of the same card with slightly different stats: common, uncommon and rare. This way the onus is on me for producing more cards and adding them to the rotation. But there is really no additional COST for doing so. More variety for nothing extra...

Plus : People will really like that you can get MORE than ONE (1) Rare card per pack! Potentially you can get 12 Rare cards! That's pretty good in a 14 card Booster. That's the BEST you can do... I'm pretty certain this will only happen RARELY. But still it could happen and the price is exactly the SAME as a pack of 12 common cards!

X3M
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Hissess

Guest1 wrote:
Couldn't you make a card game collectible by just releasing a lot different versions of the same cards, like with different art on them? Your game could only use twenty cards, but every set of cards has randomized art on each one.

Your players will know.
It might work for some collectable's.
But I doubt it will for play cards part of a new game.

Maybe if the game is runnig well. You could give special eddition cards. Like how some MtG cards had a shiny surface (still the same art though).

But so far, I feel that each card should have an unique art with their function.

FrankM
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Special Edition

X3M wrote:
Guest1 wrote:
Couldn't you make a card game collectible by just releasing a lot different versions of the same cards, like with different art on them? Your game could only use twenty cards, but every set of cards has randomized art on each one.

Your players will know.
It might work for some collectable's.
But I doubt it will for play cards part of a new game.

Maybe if the game is runnig well. You could give special eddition cards. Like how some MtG cards had a shiny surface (still the same art though).

But so far, I feel that each card should have an unique art with their function.

There are any number of "special edition" cards (or even entire games) that could be made for a game with an active fanbase.

One way is to re-skin Just Because... think of the *opoly games.

More realistic would be something like the "Project Red" version that a lot of devices offer, sometimes at a slight premium, nominally to support a charity. A game could have a re-skin themed to a particular cause, though some of the proceeds ought to actually find their way to said cause.

Having buyers "register" by signing up for a newsletter will let you get in touch with them later, though you'd also want to market to the supporters of the chosen cause who don't yet have your game.

questccg
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Of course they will know ...

X3M wrote:
Your players will know.
It might work for some collectable's.
But I doubt it will for play cards part of a new game...

It's part of the EXCITEMENT! Think if every card you DESIGN has a PLAYING improvement (means that uncommon and rare cards are SLIGHTLY BETTER than the common version) ... It adds a level of je-ne-sais-quoi!

What I mean is if in a BOOSTER you COULD get 12 RARE cards as opposed to 12 COMMON cards... That can be SUPER EXCITING!!! Buy a BOOSTER and get 5 RARE cards is ... super cool! And like I said all three (3) versions (Common, Uncommon, and Rare) have the SAME ARTWORK. The DIFFERENCE is in the STATS. And believe me they are not TOO DRASTIC ... Small, extra bonuses... Just a bit better... This is a 4 and the Rare card its a 5...!

Instead of CHEAP-@SS you get 1 Rare card per BOOSTER... The potential of 12 RARE cards is SUPER NOVEL, EXCITING and just plain AWESOME IMHO!

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