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Want some insight on a character class changing system

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larienna
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I am trying to finish my remake of Wizardry and one of the thing I want to bring back is class changing. The idea would be to start with some basic generic class (Think the squire in Final Fantasy tactics), and then when you reach level 10, you can upgrade to a prestige class. But it you retire you prestige class character, you unlock the class to create new characters right from the beginning. That should increase the roguelike aspect of the game.

I have 3 categories of class which are: Warrior, Rogue, Magic-User

I have 4 categories of magic which are: Divine, Arcane, Alchemy, Psionic.

With the old class system, There were 4 magic users, 2 warriors that could do magic, and 2 rogues that could do magic, with 4 remaing classes that could not do any magic at all.

For example: Ninja, was an alchemist+rogue, Paladin as a Divine+warrior, etc. Fighter had no magic.

Now, one of the logical way to manage class progression would be to start as one of the 3 class groups: warrior, Rogue, Magic-User. Then upgrade to an advanced class.

The problem is that each category of magic has a strict spell list, so which spell list will the Magic-User temporarily use before chosing his true vocation? It could be a melting pot of all those lists.

Another way to manage it would be to make 4 basic class based on the type of magic. So that for example, an arcanist, could become at level 10 a mage, samurai or rogue+arcane class. This way, all spells learned as an arcanist are very likely to remain.

The problem with this system is that everybody must be able to do magic. Even the fighter which normally has no spells. In which spell category would a fighter fit into?

Sure I can bend the theme and say that Magic is a thing everybody has access to but with various degree of mastery.

What do you think?

If you have other ideas let me know.

questccg
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Just something I saw the OTHER day...

I thought this was VERY COOL! I saw it on an AD of some MMO... Can't remember the name (sorry @Larienna).

But here's the GIST of it:

questccg wrote:
Players can be ANY "class" what matters is the equipment the use to make them "compatible" with that "class".

Now while I don't think this is "ground-breaking" ... It is "interesting" and DIFFERENT from most RPGs like Wizardry and such. For the life of me, I cannot find the SITE/Game (sorry again). I tried to Google without any luck.

Maybe this idea is cool to you, IDK. But I'm sure you get the GIST of it!

Note #1: I looked everywhere (Googled) and still could NOT find the MMO in question. All I remember in the Ad is that it said: "Your equipment determines the CLASS of your avatar..." Something to that effect. If this sounds COOL... Well then maybe you can GOOGLE some more and see if you can find the MMO I saw in the Ad (and let me know if you find it... Should have checked it out further...)

Note #2: Haha!!! I found it: Albion Online MMO. You can check it out here: https://albiononline.com/en/home

How the heck did I find it??? YouTube Ad (lol)... For the life of me, I could not find it... And then this ad pop-up for an MMO and I watched it a bit and sure enough they talk about forging equipment and classes are defined by the Armor and Weapon being used.

Take a look at it... The MMO doesn't really impress me... But this CLASS SYSTEM sound pretty kewl!

Note #3: That link/URL brings you to a page with a Video you can watch which talks about equipment and classes... Anyways if you watch the video you'll see how THEY do it...

Of course you could ADAPT the method (concept) and tailor it to your game's specifications.

questccg
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With something more flexible

You get the opportunity to "re-distribute" SKILLs (or STATs) each time you adorn another set of Equipment. You can have SKILL minimums like 20 Strength if you want to wear Plate Mail as a Warrior... Or 20 Intelligence if you want to be able to equip and use a Magical Staff...

Another interesting take on this is Fallout system of "abilities". It has the SPECIAL (Strength, Perception, Endurance, Charisma, Intelligence, Agility and Luck) for the SKILLs (or STATs)...

But it boast another set of "abilities" which are like MASTERY (or Knowledge) like 50% Large Weapons... 25% Lock picking... Just examples to state what you can find. I'm just suggesting that you make your own "abilities" and those are the ONEs that STAY FIXED (so 50% Large Weapons can be a Magical Axe for a Warrior or a Firewind Quarterstaff for a Wizard which is two-handed)... That kind of relationship between "equipment", class and "abilities".

I'm sure you've seen this before... But I just wanted to re-iterate some of this content for others who are unaware of these "systems" and "stats".

let-off studios
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Vehn Diagram Splits

To sum it up: I'd start with the three core classes, and then for prestige classes I'd provide players with the option to either specialise and "double down" on their choice, or to blend some sort of magic with what they do.

In mechanical terms, there's a "basic" spell list that Magic-Users have access to, but the Warrior and the Rogue do not. This basic spell list is a collection of spells and abilities taken from each school of magic: "a little bit here, a little bit there."

At your prestige threshold, allow Magic Users to specialize in a specific school of magic, opening up the higher tier of spells and abilities. Rogues and Warriors could open up the spells and abilities from one of the four schools of magic, essentially gaining a subset of the basic spell list the Magic-User would have at the beginning.

There are a lot of thematic ways you can go about doing this, and you can still have a "pure" Warrior or Rogue with no spells to speak of, but with special abilities to allow them to compete with the other prestige classes.

questccg
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Your SKILLs could be used with "Abilities"

Like if you have 20 Strength and are wearing Plate Armor ... And therefore you are a Warrior (or Knight) this could affect some "Abilites" like +10% Large Weapons, or if you are wearing a Cloak of Concealment ... You are a Rogue (or Thief) and some "Abilities" like +10% Lockpicking or +15 Stealth, +10 Accuracy, +15 Two-handed, etc.

Cool stuff like that. I'd recommend you maybe Googling on "Fallout" 1 or 2 with the SPECIAL STATs and "abilities" for something to give you an exhaustive list that you can use and adapt for your own game...

Cheers and best of luck(?!) with your Game!

Note #1: In Fallout 1 & 2 they are called SKILLs.

larienna
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Non-Magic users could have

Non-Magic users could have special abilities (like in the recents dragon quests) that consumes MP. Still I was not going in that direction.

Another user on BGG mentioned pooling magic from all the 4 categories giving a kind of try before you buy aspect to the game.

Else the advantage of doing the magic type approach is that it could lead to more creative and unusual class names since they must all use magic.

By the way, Ogre Battle is a game where class changing requires equipment and stats.

questccg
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Here's a CHART that you may LIKE!

Could be useful for NAMEs of the various CLASSES. Yeah I know there are a LOT... Hahaha! (lol)

Note #1: Some of them are "weird" like "Dancer" or "Strategist", etc. But maybe something like "Pyro Dancer" could make more sense (IDK)... The chart is just to HELP not perfect. I disagree with some of the class names... But hey I'm sure it can help a LITTLE!

questccg
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"DESIGNS" (en bon français: PATRONS)

I would just like to ADD that IF your game had "DESIGNS" (or more commonly "PLANS") that allow you to CRAFT an item of equipment according to the necessary requirements...

Like for example: that Firewind Quarterstaff could require Magical Coal, a Phoenix's Feather and both Ash and Elven Wood. The number of Coal can be from 1 to 5... The more the STRONGER the staff (magically)...

And you could EARN "DESIGNS" from Quests, Boss-Fights, Secret Areas, Playing the game (Randomly too), etc.

I really "dislike" games that show you it will be 100 levels before you get "X" in the Upgrade Tree. Some randomness makes it just a bit COOLER IMHO.

Note #1: I also DISLIKE games that EVERYONE has the SAME stuff they can CRAFT. Sucks big-time... Having your OWN UNIQUE equipment and earning some cool LOOT from a Hard-Fought Boss Battle is NEAT!!! Would definitely want to play a GAME just for this ASPECT alone...

I think one Final Fantasy (not Tactics) had some kind of Crystal Configuration... You could max-out your items with Gems and stuff... That too is pretty cool too!

Crafting could have COMMON, UNCOMMON and RARE "DESIGNS"... Like LEATHER armor could be common and requires "cattle skin" (1-5), Cotton and Rivets... For a common light armor that could be used by all classes.

Things like that would attract A LOT OF GAMERS!!! Stupid games like Total Battle reveal everything in a Tech Tree ... But you know it's going to take MONTHS or maybe even YEARS to reach the end... Unless you drop a lot of money on upgrades...

Note #2: Make it that in some city, outside the walls by using a secret passage which leads you to a DEAD TREE STUMP. If you search it, you find "MAGICAL RUNIC AXE" DESIGN. Which allows you to CRAFT this weapon for the "Warrior" Class.

I take my inspiration from Ultima V from the first Magical Axe you can find in one of the cities...!

That could require some Runestones (1-5), Mythril Steel and Leatherette (for the handle)... Something COOL LIKE THAT!

If you want to make the game EPIC ... Focus on "Equipment" and have a TON of variety... Start with a simple framework and learning how to TANNING leather and SMITHY-ING steel, etc. There is STEEL and then there is Mythril Steel which can be found in Dwarven Mines...

Cool stuff!!!

Note #3: I'd PAY to PLAY such a game. One thing... Do make a Tech Tree with "Tanning" and "Smithing" of various LEVELS (which means some grinding) but then give us those "wonderful" and "unique" items BUT DON'T make them tradeable or sellable, etc. Don't make your in-game economy depend on CRAFTING. Because that will suck cr@p! People are going to want to TRADE "DESIGNS" again ... none of that.

What you get is YOURS only. And only YOU can craft it (unless other players have the same DESIGNS too...)

Note #4: How did this "comment" occur??? Well it was in correlation with the CRAFTING of EQUIPMENT and that "Equipment" could be used to define the "Class" of a player (at any given moment). Cheers!

larienna
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Wow! That's a lot of class. I

Wow! That's a lot of class. I remember another game which has 3 poles like that, I think it was Kingdom of Amarlur.

I was lacking ideas for rogues, so that could be an source of ideas. Thanks.

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