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Political Rivalry - Worker Placement Game Feedback Request

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JayProducer
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Political Party Cards

Hello,

A while back I posted a thread on BGG about a DIY game my dad sent me over 5 years ago. It rightly so got slated and gave me the encouragement and determination to take on a personal project and learn all about game design. I was completely new to the hobby back then. This lead me onto a journey to study all the game mechanisms and play as many games as I could, of which I attended a gaming group and designers group until the pandemic came along and halted all of that.

For anyone interested, here is the original post back in 2016: https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1525220/article/21809777#21...

The game name has changed from Scandal to Political Rivalry. Although I have now gotten to a point where it is finished I am eager to find out a wider field of thoughts on what everyone now thinks about the game and would love to get your feedback on these point:

- Can you see anything unique about it?
- What are your thoughts on the upcoming artwork on the cards?
- Anything else that springs to mind?

Thank you, eagerly looking forward to getting lots of viewpoints. I did post on BGG and had only one reply that concentrated on the electoral wards, and I have made it clear it's not possible to realistically have all the electoral wards on the map, otherwise the board will be of a ridiculous size and would ultimately imbalance the game play in any case. It is therefore the only part of the game not realistic to politics.

What do you think of the art?
Can you see anything original in the game?

A brief description about the game and others I am working on can be found here, where you can also sign up and be notified when the game launches: http://pixygames.co.uk/

questccg
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Hmm... Not sure about that!?

It would be better if you posted a Link/URL to the Game Rules that is not a TinyUrl but something we can see where it is going. Why? Because TinyUrls can lead to dangerous sites and posting the rules will allow everyone to READ what it is and HOW it is played. And if you don't want to post rules, it would be nice to take a single "comment" and EXPLAIN a bit more about the game.

About the art. You posted some "card samples" but they are ALL the SAME. The only difference is the art and flavor text on each one. The STATS and directives are all the SAME!

The BGG thread no longer has any images of the "Board" and so we don't know if you still even have a BOARD or not?!

While I understand you are "well intentioned", you've posted VERY LITTLE and link to a thread that is missing content... If you want more feedback that is perfectly acceptable, just be prepared to offer more CONTENT for us to see.

Hopefully you can post MORE information on BGDF.com and allow the members to have a better look at WHAT it is your game is like.

Best of success with your game!

Note #1: The TinyUrl doesn't even direct to RULES but instead a DELETED document. You're asking for feedback but offer NOTHING for us to look at other than a few identical card samples. Like I said, be prepared to offer MORE content if you want any honest feedback.

JayProducer
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Thank you for that. Here is

Thank you for that. Here is the link to the rules (which are a draft version and will be re-designed): https://www.dropbox.com/s/5utwg09x92vav5v/Political%20Rivalry%20Rules.do...

The cards arent finished, they are a first draft example. Regarding the actual characters is what I was looking for feedback on in the meantime :)

questccg
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Good stuff!...

I'll take a look and we'll see if some of our other "regulars" can have a look too! Like I mentioned to another potential member, right now with Summer ... It's been a bit "quiet" around BGDF.com. But I will take a look over the weekend and provide you with some feedback afterwards.

That DEFINITELY helps us figure out what YOUR GAME is about!

Again maybe someone else will check out the rules too and see what they think also.

Cheers!

Note #1: The characters look good on the cards. Maybe a lot of people with glasses, you might want to have 3 instead of 4 character with glasses... Just an observation. Like you may want the "Independent" Party to have a woman without glasses. Also try to get better male to female distribution. Because when couples play together, they sometimes prefer to take on the opposite sexes (2 vs. 2) or Couple vs. Couple. Again some minor observations.

JayProducer
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questccg wrote:I'll take a

questccg wrote:
I'll take a look and we'll see if some of our other "regulars" can have a look too! Like I mentioned to another potential member, right now with Summer ... It's been a bit "quiet" around BGDF.com. But I will take a look over the weekend and provide you with some feedback afterwards.

That DEFINITELY helps us figure out what YOUR GAME is about!

Again maybe someone else will check out the rules too and see what they think also.

Cheers!

Note #1: The characters look good on the cards. Maybe a lot of people with glasses, you might want to have 3 instead of 4 character with glasses... Just an observation. Like you may want the "Independent" Party to have a woman without glasses. Also try to get better male to female distribution. Because when couples play together, they sometimes prefer to take on the opposite sexes (2 vs. 2) or Couple vs. Couple. Again some minor observations.

Thank you. Much appreciated. Will get the artist to work on those characters then she can start on the card design next.

questccg
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Right now I'm a bit confused...

Right after the MISSING USA Board there are P# which I fail to understand how and why they are used!? For example P17: #3 Rally Tracker. What does the P17 mean and is it linked to the board or some kind of page in the rulebook, IDK... I've tried to understand this and could not find an explanation for this numbering!

Could you please explain this???

I also didn't know you rulebook was so LARGE (in number of pages). There is a total of 30 pages... It may take me a while to cover the entirety of the rulebook given that small details like those P#s might hamper my progress in reading the rulebook and understanding what it all means.

Sincerely.

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questccg wrote:Right after

questccg wrote:
Right after the MISSING USA Board there are P# which I fail to understand how and why they are used!? For example P17: #3 Rally Tracker. What does the P17 mean and is it linked to the board or some kind of page in the rulebook, IDK... I've tried to understand this and could not find an explanation for this numbering!

Could you please explain this???

I also didn't know you rulebook was so LARGE (in number of pages). There is a total of 30 pages... It may take me a while to cover the entirety of the rulebook given that small details like those P#s might hamper my progress in reading the rulebook and understanding what it all means.

Sincerely.

Should be on page 20. I will update page 7 with the correct page numbers to go to for more information.

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questccg wrote:Right after

questccg wrote:
Right after the MISSING USA Board there are P# which I fail to understand how and why they are used!? For example P17: #3 Rally Tracker. What does the P17 mean and is it linked to the board or some kind of page in the rulebook, IDK... I've tried to understand this and could not find an explanation for this numbering!

Could you please explain this???

I also didn't know you rulebook was so LARGE (in number of pages). There is a total of 30 pages... It may take me a while to cover the entirety of the rulebook given that small details like those P#s might hamper my progress in reading the rulebook and understanding what it all means.

Sincerely.

Should be on page 20. I will update page 7 with the correct page numbers to go to for more information.

Rally Tracker:

The rally action space is where you can get a rally going and earn big votes and additional free actions – which are optional. There is however, a risk! Opponents can use a scandal approach to thwart your rally and drop you down to a smaller one. “Rally Scandal” on page 21 explains how this is done. The further along the rally you go, the closer you get to completing a full rally when you reach stage 3.

When you land on the Rally action space, either place 1 new Member from your supply on the Rally Tracker, for the rally that matches the colour on the action space at stage 1 or move 1 Member that is already on the matching rally to the next stage, and pay the cost indicated. Then choose to either ignore or carry out the additional free action(s) indicated on that stage.

Opponent Members may occupy the same space (no limit); however, your own Members cannot occupy the same space on the Rally Tracker for stages 1 & 2. Members on stage 3 cannot be removed and you have multiple members on stage 3, regardless if they are from the same political party.

Important: You can only access a National Rally from the Scandalous Action Area and you can only access a Local and Regional Rally from a Campaign Region Area.

JayProducer
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Here is the updated rule
questccg
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How come...

On the UK Board there is no Value one (#1) and no Value eight (#8). Furthermore what are all those Values on the board used for??? 2 to 9, no 1 or 8. Is this another form of page reference which is also "stale"??? People who read this rulebook are going to wonder WHY the numbers and to what do they refer to???

questccg
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And sorry if I am being very pickey...

But I like rulebooks that are TIGHT, present the information is a natural way and that it all stems from logic. Not pages of information with numbers of which I have no clue what they mean or serve. You should ensure that you've sufficiently proofed your rulebook so that it is EASY to read by anyone outside of yourself.

Why? Because you know all the rules of the game in the back of your mind.

The REST of us, need to read the rules and see if things make sense. And that is hard to do when page numbers are wrong, there is arbitrary numbering on the board and it is not explained, etc.

Again sorry if I am being pickey... But when I read rules, I like to not have any surprises in the format and content. Sure the rules are a Work-In-Progress, but still I would expect typos or minor errors in spelling not the wrong pages and things don't relate to the right sections (but you've address that and that is good...) Now all you need to do is explain why those numbers and what do they mean.

Cheers.

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questccg wrote:On the UK

questccg wrote:
On the UK Board there is no Value one (#1) and no Value eight (#8). Furthermore what are all those Values on the board used for??? 2 to 9, no 1 or 8. Is this another form of page reference which is also "stale"??? People who read this rulebook are going to wonder WHY the numbers and to what do they refer to???

Hello,

Which page are you referring to so I can take a look? If this is referring to the numbers on the board they relate to each area and are described on the following page. Does it not make sense?

questccg
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Then I think there is a TYPO (or error)

#1 should be the bottom-right-most asset on the board and it has the Value #3.

Is this correct? Or am I totally lost???!!!

JayProducer
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questccg wrote:#1 should be

questccg wrote:
#1 should be the bottom-right-most asset on the board and it has the Value #3.

Is this correct? Or am I totally lost???!!!

Yes, that's correct and a mistake on my end. Well picked up.

questccg
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I haven't read too much... Just yet... But

I had a bit of a "suggestion". Again you can use my ideas, adapt them or simply ignore them... That is all totally up to you.

But I personally think that the BOARD (US or UK) should only have the UK MAP and to SOMEHOW "streamline" the other elements in PLAYER BOARDS.

Again this is only my opinion, but I think the BOARD is TOO CROWDED and it doesn't really help to know anything in terms of Game Flow. Where do I get this concept??? Well from games like "Scythe" from Stonemaier Games.

Here have a look at this Link/URL:

https://boardgamegeek.com/image/3060833/scythe

So you see the BOARD is the primary focus with some "tracks". Mostly kept away from the main playing area.

Next you will notice that each player has TWO (2) PLAYER BOARDS. As seen here:

https://boardgamegeek.com/image/3068604/scythe

Well Item #6 looks to be a PER PLAYER sets of movement or actions. Again I may be wrong because I have NOT read everything... Like I said I will get to it. But hear me out! Because if you can get away with a something like a JUMBO card like at "The Game Crafter" as seen here:

https://www.thegamecrafter.com/make/products/JumboDeck

You can maybe make the UK MAP AREA/surface a bit larger and have a bit more spacing for the cubes.

(Of course this is not possible because in the movement area I read that players may move onto spaces of the other players... My bad.)

I just think this BOARD is TOO CHAOTIC and doesn't show any sense or form about how players move around... And those #6 Items are REAL PROBLEMATIC.

Item #1 and #3 (Trackers) and maybe #4 ... IDK. I would probably prefer something like "The BOARD" and some secondary areas on MATS or MINI-BOARDS.

Reading more of Item #3 (Rally Tracker). It says at the bottom:

Quote:
You are not permitted to have the same Members sharing stages 1 & 2 on the rally tracker, however opponent Members can share the same stages as yours.

Can you explain this a bit better???

I'm only starting to get through the rulebook based on the BOARD and the items on it. My ideas about "streamlining" the board is to make the game MORE INTUITIVE. Instead of seeing this "mess" (or chaos) of a board, if there were some kind of ORGANISATION.

Yes I understand, you have it all COMPARTMENTALIZED in your brain ... But when I LOOK at the UK Board... I'm lost. I don't even know where the game begins!

Granted having extra mats might be more expensive... It may make your game more PRECISE and INTUITIVE. Something VERY important in BOARD games. You want PEOPLE to LOOK at your board and go: "WOW! So COOL!!!"

Not ... "OMG! What is this??? Where do we start?"

I'm not trying to be HYPER-critical... I'm just giving you my honest feedback. I wouldn't suggest streamlining the board if I felt like it would be a WASTE of time. No, I am suggesting it... Because there is TOO MUCH going on quite frankly!

I'll try to make it to Page 10 by tonight. We've had our stumbling blocks because I wasn't exactly sure what all the page numbers were (because they were wrong) and the item numbers also (because #1 is #3 instead). But I'm slowly getting there. Right now I'm going to read until Page 10. And give you some feedback until there.

I'm sorry if I am so slow. I get stuck on things that to you are probably minor... But to me... Need to make sense before I can say that: "I understand..."

Will give you more feedback later this week. I doubt that you want to publish this game "tomorrow" so we have time for me to get through the rules and give you HONEST feedback where there are challenges and difficulties.

Cheers @Jay!

Note #1: Yeah we may have "stumbled" a bit with the first few pages... But there is a LOT going on there. And to understand it, may take a little time for reflection.

questccg wrote:
Here is something to THINK about! What if you could remove all the "Tracking Information" and figure out what MUST be on the BOARD with regards to the "core" game???

Just think about that... And I think things like #3 Rally Tracker could BE SEPARATED and put into another SIDE BOARD. We'll get to it. Just an example of what I am thinking about. I'll read some more and as I get more familiar with the design (hopefully), I'll be better positioned to offer BETTER and MORE CONCRETE ideas.

For now, it's just "first glance" feedback.

Note #2: Again for you to THINK ABOUT. What if you had a nomenclature that was more OBVIOUS. Like "Squares" for Cubes and "Circles" for valid moves (or positions)???

Something like this could go a LONG way in demonstrating that CIRCLES is where players may move onto (SPACES) and SQUARES is how players affect the ranking and help to win the game.

Like take Item #3 (Rally Tracker) as an example. You have 3 Types of Rallies: UK, Regional and Local. Instead of using the "bull horns" as SPACES (which is NOT A Square or a Circle), you could have SQUARES (because I think they affect the RANKING in the game, right???)

Again I may not be completely correct just yet. But it gives you an EXAMPLE. Plus each "bull horn" has a SYMBOL and a COST... Too much going on in that little area and I've yet to read all about it.

Don't worry, I'll get to it. Soon enough!

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Okay ... I've read the component listing and all the assets

I've completed the pages from 1 to 10. Why Page #8 AND Page #4...? Somehow you need to "condense" these two (2) pages because I think they are "functionally" VERY SIMILAR. With there being missing elements, that adds a bit to the confusion over Page #8 or Page #4...!

Page #8 (Playing Pieces). It doesn't help that the PARTY is GREEN, the meeple is BLUE, and the PAWN is Yellow. Make the meeple and pawn GREEN as appropriate for this Party.

Page #10 (Tokens). I LIKE that the tokens are all the SAME SHAPE... But then I dislike that they have different FUNCTIONS. Let me think about it some more...

More on Page #10... Intent Cards, Item #1: "additional votes in secrete". Should say "additional votes in secret" (No extra "E"). Also I would REMOVE the "Flavor Text" and "Quotes" on Intent cards. This is not a game of Magic... Remove whatever is NON-ESSENTIAL and "Quotes" seem pointless.

Again on Page #10, Player Reference Sheet and no SAMPLE. No ACTIONS??? Again missing and confusing. Another issue is DIVIDING the Token and Cards into two (2) comprehensive sections. Do CARDS (all of them with examples) and then do TOKENS... Not a bit of one here and others there and stuff in-between. Again confusing.

I'll review again tomorrow this "section" (until Page #10) that way it gives you a chance to respond/reply to my comments.

Sincerely.

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Hmm... Waiting to hear from you and share your thoughts!

@Jay ... I'm waiting until I hear back from you. I've reviewed Page 1 to 10 and would like to know your own thoughts on the extra page (#4 vs. #8), your ideas and interest in "streamlining" the board and how it would be possible to offset some of the different items on the BOARD itself to a PLAYER MAT or a Secondary Mini-Board, etc. Just wanting to see how OPEN you are to IMPROVING your design. And what you think of the nomenclature concept (Squares for cubes & influence, Circles for Paws & Positions, etc.)

It's hard to come up with concrete things that need fixing. You may disagree and that is your right; in the end it is your DESIGN. But I'm just pointing out some ideas and changes that could be RELATIVELY minor and have a BIG IMPACT.

In any even, please read through these entries/comments and let me know what YOUR thoughts are!? Cheers.

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Will take a look this weekend

Will take a look this weekend at your comments and get back to you.

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Hello,Here is my response to

Hello,

Here is my response to your suggestions:

- A player board wouldn't work as the all actions area is for all players to access and each piece only accesses one action space. Adding player boards will add to the production costs. Furthermore, the trackers are better on the board to represent the action areas they come from. I'll go more into that on my second point. I know Scyth and the boards work well for that game, but it doesn't for Political Rivalry as it's a worker placement and area control game. Changing it to player boards takes away the worker placement of the game and instead starts creating an action selection mechanism. The action selection element will also drastically change how the game plays.

- I agree the board is too small, that is because I had to print it off on A3. It will be twice a big in the final production. Therefore, there will be plenty of space for the trackers to go on. I had already updated some of the look with a scetch and will be re-designed by the artist. The action spaces now have circles to represent where you place your leader.

- There will be an expansion for the game which are on separate boards and adding more may confuse players, which is why I wanted the trackers on the actual main board. They will be on the bottom right once the board is enlarged.

- See attached the updated version. Keep in mind this is on A3 for printing reasons and will be much larger in scale on the final production. The art work will also be re-done. https://www.dropbox.com/s/jxtlgc9ljr1szkw/5th%20Design%20Pub.pdf?dl=0

- Page 4 is just the setup, which is why all components are explained on page 8. I originally had the components after the setup and someone suggested moving it to after the board.

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questccg wrote:I've completed

questccg wrote:
I've completed the pages from 1 to 10. Why Page #8 AND Page #4...? Somehow you need to "condense" these two (2) pages because I think they are "functionally" VERY SIMILAR. With there being missing elements, that adds a bit to the confusion over Page #8 or Page #4...!

Page #8 (Playing Pieces). It doesn't help that the PARTY is GREEN, the meeple is BLUE, and the PAWN is Yellow. Make the meeple and pawn GREEN as appropriate for this Party.

Page #10 (Tokens). I LIKE that the tokens are all the SAME SHAPE... But then I dislike that they have different FUNCTIONS. Let me think about it some more...

More on Page #10... Intent Cards, Item #1: "additional votes in secrete". Should say "additional votes in secret" (No extra "E"). Also I would REMOVE the "Flavor Text" and "Quotes" on Intent cards. This is not a game of Magic... Remove whatever is NON-ESSENTIAL and "Quotes" seem pointless.

Again on Page #10, Player Reference Sheet and no SAMPLE. No ACTIONS??? Again missing and confusing. Another issue is DIVIDING the Token and Cards into two (2) comprehensive sections. Do CARDS (all of them with examples) and then do TOKENS... Not a bit of one here and others there and stuff in-between. Again confusing.

I'll review again tomorrow this "section" (until Page #10) that way it gives you a chance to respond/reply to my comments.

Sincerely.

1. Not sure moving it would make much difference? Condensing - any suggestions?
2. I have changed the meeple and cube to green now.
3. Be interesting to know if you think having them the same shape will help or not?
4. Typo changed. I bought in the flavour text to give it some theme and thought they worked well with the intent cards.
5. The playing pieces and cards are across 3 pages, so when you say they are all over the place would you prefer just a simple list without the definition of them? I haven't uploaded the reference sheet yet.

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Hmm... Just to shed some light on some terms...

Just because you can't move to a space occupied by another meeple... Doesn't mean that your game has a prominent "Area Control" mechanic. It's like saying "Sorry!" is partly an "Area Control" mechanic. That's ridiculous...!

Also having a "Worker Placement" mechanic just doesn't simply mean have 4 or 5 Action you can take ... I think you've "stretched" the terms quite a bit to say that your game has mainly a "Worker Placement" mechanic.

To illustrate... One of my designs called "Crystal Heroes" focuses on a STRONG "Area Control" mechanic. How and Why?! Well you play tiles into the play area and as you do, you LIMIT the amount of moves that your opponent may do with his or her own tiles. And this "Area Control" mechanic often resolves itself in the very last or previous to last turn (since the game plays in 12 Rounds).

Personally I already FEEL like this game is more of a "Action Selection" mechanic and I've explained why you cannot call it "Worker Placement" or "Area Control" in the TRUE sense of those mechanics.

And I'm just being honest. This is my own take on the game.

If I was the game's Developer, I would suggest doing something like this:

questccg wrote:
There are a fixed number of actions that may be taken. Each action has a "Action Token" for a specific purpose. Player in order choose to perform an "Action" by selecting from the available pool of "Action Tokens".

Maybe some Actions may have multiple "copies" like 3x Drive Action Tokens, 2x Fly Action Tokens and 1x Boat Action Token.

This leads me to something by FREEING all those spaces on the board that are "frivolous" in terms of this particular design. Like I said, just because you have spaces on to move, doesn't mean this game has TRULY a "Worker Placement" mechanic.

Again, I'm not poo-poo-ing on your game. I'm just offering you my own opinion to (IMHO) how to IMPROVE the game.

I haven't read all the rules, only the components and setup. I'll be reading more this week (not all week but in-between activities).

But again being HONEST, I think I LIKE the direction of going towards "Action Selection" given "Action Tokens". I know you have your mind set on the game (because like most designers... people mostly want to hear that their game is the best and is 100% great as-is). Well I'm not one of those people. I've worked with Joe Pilkus who was a Developer on TradeWorlds... And I've taken Blind Playtesting Feedback and revised the game when it was even 90% completed.

Just think about WHY(?) you want "Worker Placement" and "Area Control" mechanics when the REAL "core" of what you are trying to achieve in the game is "Action Selection". And to me, this sounds GREAT. Because it has a VIBE of "What do I do NEXT?" And then when you take that 1x Boat Token, they MESS with your plans JUST LIKE how having a MEEPLE on a SPACE (where you get your "Area Control Mechanic"). And just like that, you've got SIMILAR GAME FUNCTIONALITY.

I'm not trying to BREAK your game. Like I said, I'm trying to bring a bit of "streamlining". And yeah, you can tell me to "Fuck off"... But know that I'm showing you how to make the game more understandable and offer NEAR IDENTICAL FUNCTIONALITY. Just a bit of a different way, which FREES up the requirement for your meeples and board "spaces" which are very chaotic in the board that I have.

Next, Board Size. Size isn't everything TBH. The problem is that there are TOO MANY "EXTRA" AREAS on the board. If you get rid of Item #6 and make those "Action Tokens" only. That's ONE STEP forwards. You already HAVE the tokens, it's just a matter of USING them better ... And adding to the pool given various distributions: like 3x Drive Action Tokens, 2x Plane Action Tokens and 1 Boat Action Token. Maybe 1x Scandal Action Token, 4x Rally Action Tokens, 2x Press Action Tokens.

Then I would create a separate board for Rally and Influence Trackers on a separate area. And another interesting IDEA is to have a "Tracker Manager" much like the Banker in Monopoly... the Tracker is managed and maintained during the game by one player (to ensure everyone does not worry about accessibility issues).

This is to address ... The BOARD. I've spoken my peace, you now know my opinion and like I said, you can use, adapt or ignore my ideas.

I hope you can take this and figure out what works best for you... Cheers!

Note #1: Been a long Father's Day... It's 11:30 PM EDT over here... And so I'll take the time to address your 2nd comment and see what I can make heads or tails of... Tomorrow. Cheers!

And please don't be offended. You can keep your game 100% AS-IS. That is entirely up to you. I'm just showing HOW I would do things a bit differently to get the game more intuitive and logical in terms of play...

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Thanks for your input. I am

Thanks for your input. I am moving soon so will get back to you after the weekend. With the action selection, the only way I can see it working is to use action tokens, where players select two each turn and the other players cannot use the same ones, however can use a travel token to follow, with the travel icon matching both action tokens.

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Bigger board may make the game more intuitive

Take for example Ireland. There are currently 20 Cube locations. What if you were to SPLIT this up into smaller groups of Cubes. And then you could have that the island is reachable by PLANE or BOAT... But then once on the island you could travel by CAR... To indicate which portion of Ireland you are currently campaigning in.

With a LARGER board, you can make these "sub-divisions" clearer and offer MORE in terms of locations to "travel to".

And then it makes the movement Tokens more "valuable" if you limit them in their quantity.

JayProducer wrote:
With the action selection, the only way I can see it working is to use action tokens, where players select two each turn and the other players cannot use the same ones, however can use a travel token to follow, with the travel icon matching both action tokens.

Give me an example so that I better understand your explanation...

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WIth regards to more subdivisions,

I know you have the TRAVEL ICONS already... And it's generally a couple per division... My response to this would be to use a LARGER Map and subdivide the UK countries into more sub-divisions.

This would make the TRAVEL Action more prominent that just moving from one AREA to another.

And there could be some RULES like this:

1. If a sub-division is connected by LAND, you may use a ROAD Travel Token to get to it (movement).

2. In order to use a PLANE Travel Token, you must either access a sub-division that it 4 or 5 ROAD Tokens away or 1 BOAT Token away (again this would need to be playtested more... It's just an example ATM).

3. Boat requires you to move by "Ferry" from one LAND MASS to another when separated by water.

Why is this important??? Well with more sub-divisions, it makes for the CAMPAIGNING to be more "realistic". It's not just ONE BIG AREA to go to... Now there are counties or rural areas ... Which must be TRAVELLED TO!

Again take Ireland as an EXAMPLE:

A. It has 20 Vote Cubes as possible votes.

B. If you divide this into FOUR (4) counties with FIVE (5) Votes EACH, that would mean that Ireland is dominated by 4 sub-divisions and players must do MORE "Travelling" if they expect to get more votes.

See how COOL that kind of map would be??? It makes for the necessity of TRAVELLING MORE. And if you have like 3x Road, 2x Ferry and 1x Plane Tokens, you are basically limiting the travel that can be done on a turn. Making the "movement" a more compelling element to the game.

Having more MAP REGIONS, opens up the possibility to more movement and the necessity for the "Travel Tokens" and limiting what can be done on a turn.

What I think is interesting by this... Is that there is far more travelling to do... And since the locations are NOT LIMITED to #6 items, this OPENS UP the game a bit.

Instead of going from ONE GIANT location to another and then rely on #6 items (call the CHOICES for the time being)... You would use the sub-divisions on the MAP to open up more flexibility to campaign more in DIFFERENT REGIONS of the UK... (sub-divisions and counties)

Another cosmetic different I would make, instead of CAR Travel Token, I would use a BUS Travel Token... At least that's what they use in the USA... They have campaign buses that travel around the country.

And I would ADD a WALK Icon a PERSON Travel Icon, which is sort of like a "I want to stay in the same region of the map". There could be "# of players - 1" WALK Travel Icon meaning with 4-Players, one player would need to move along to another region prior to completing his campaigning in a REGION. In a 2-Player game it means only ONE (1) Player could campaign in the SAME region, the other one would need to move to another REGION...

Again with a BIGGER BOARD, this opens up the possibility of having MORE REGIONS and adds a more "tactical" experience. And a sort of RAT RACE/chase...

Much like in the USA... Everyone tries to go to different areas and take control... Like 3 out of 5 Votes. But then when there are more votes available like 6 out of 10 Votes... Players speed around to those locations to TRY to Out-Vote their opponents... Taking a Plane and fudging with everyone else's plans...

The you can have COASTAL REGIONS which can be travelled to by Ferry and LAND-LOCKED areas that you can either DRIVE to or FLY to...

Again just some extra thoughts... I am going to start reading the remainder of the rulebook tonight. No doubt in the evening some time... Starting from Page 11 onwards.

Give me the week to get through the remainder of the rules... And then I'll post my thoughts on the weekend and you can react afterwards and share your own personal opinion...

Cheers!

Note #1: A little bit more on the WALK Travel Token... Like I said it would be "# of Players - 1" tokens. So in a 2-Player game, you only can stay at a LOCATION for 1-Player. If the other player wants to stay TOO... He can use the HOTEL option and collect 1x Slander Token. But it allows him/her to STAY in the same REGION on the next ROUND (next set of turns).

Note #2: Here's what I mean by SUB-DIVISIONS... Take a look at some of the areas on this WEBSITE:

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2019/11/08/regiona...

Maybe Scotland can be divided a bit too... It's not as per this website... But this SVG shows "Additional Seat Members" and you can maybe design your regions around those:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_in_Scotland#/media/File:Scottish...

I'm not saying 100%... But gives you some IDEAS on what could be POSSIBLE! Again ... Just some ideas for you to explore. With a bigger board, you don't necessarily need ALL the areas (especially the smaller ones), you can group some together ... But this HELPS in establishing a bit of a LOGICAL sub-division...

Note #3: I'm on page 16, so halfway through the rulebook. I have found one item so far to get more information about... I'll post the comment and allow you time to relax and just think through the REGIONS and such and making movement more "tactical" than only 4 tracks of 4 Actions each. Remember if you go to an "Action Selection" mechanic... That will free up movement and you can maybe add more regions as I have shown you in the VOTING Links/URL that I included earlier in this comment.

Cheers @JayProducer!

questccg
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I wanted to "explain" something about the Voters

With your current board areas, you are "forced" to keep adding more Voters from the Influence Trackers. Which is as-designed (Currently). With the additional sub-divisions (or REGIONS), what this means is that you DON'T need to get a GRAND TOTAL of voters to win the game. Let me explain and you'll probably see that it is a bit more like in REAL VOTING.

So let's say the REGION of "Yorkshire and Humberside" you get 6 out of 10 Votes. Means that you CONTROL 60% of the vote. This means that at most your competition can only get 4 remaining votes or a minority of Voters.

Why is this IMPORTANT? Because it allows that player who has 6 Voters in that region to focus his efforts on CONTROLLING a MAJORITY "elsewhere" in the UK...

So it creates this sort of BUBBLE of MAJORITY and trying to control various regions in order to defeat their opponents. And this is VERY TRUE, because once a REGION gets a MAJORITY, the opposing parties are LESS LIKELY to focus their own efforts in that area. Instead the opposing parties will go to REGIONS where there is not a majority and the balance can be swayed either way (for one of the other players).

IMHO this make the game much more POLITICAL because SWING-REGIONS are going to be the ones that can make the difference. Like if 1-Player has 3 out of 10 Votes, the competition still has a chance to collect 6 or 7 Voters to WIN that region over to their side.

But do you see the difference??? By adding more regions, the "tactical" nature of the board is unlocked. And so is the additional amount of STRATEGY too!

Remember that I said to add a "WALKING" Travel Action which is sort of like allowing you to remain in a REGION?! Well if you were forced to LEAVE a region that has NOT been fully "converted" (Blue or Red or Green or Orange), the opponents can JUMP to the occasion and STEAL the Voters from that region, making for a much more SWINGY action...

IDK about end-game bonuses... Haven't read all your rules about those... And I don't know if you DIVIDE into REGIONS how you will consolidate POWER. Because just because you WIN the POPULAR VOTE, doesn't mean that you WIN the ELECTION! It depends how many AREAS you CONTROL in REALITY...

Maybe this is another NUGGET of things to think about (when it comes to scoring... end-game mostly) and also how to encourage competition in various REGIONS to win the game...

(Just some extra tid-bits to think about... especially about POPULAR VOTE!)

questccg
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Question for you?

Page #14: Using your "Special Ability", in the example it says:

Quote:
The cube is discarded and they must now decide to either move a current cube up the influence track for any region by +1 space or pay 5k to move up +3 spaces.

Where does the 5k come from??? It's not indicated on the Ability or anywhere else from what I can understand?!

I haven't been able to understand this... As I move through the rules, I am to make low amount of suggestions but offer high amount of impact! The REGIONS is very local changes (with a bigger board allowing more flexibility there) and the Action Selection ... Which I am waiting for an example to understand your response!

Feel free to respond at your own pace.

questccg
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Also ...

I was thinking with the POPULAR VOTE vs. WINNING THE ELECTIONS by Electoral Votes, you might want to use you "Scandal" Action to NEGATIVELY AVERSE the votes in a REGION.

So take that 6/10 Voters example... And One of the opposing parties plays a "Scandal" action and the could (for example), CONVERT "2 Votes" to the party playing the "Scandal".

This could mean 4 Red Votes, 2 Blue Votes (from the Scandal Action) and 4 OPEN and UNDECIDED Votes. Of course there is still the possibility for BLUE to get more Votes and take the majority, Red can do the same even if Blue kinda shifted the Voters intent... And it could be a TIE if the Green or Orange party take the remaining 4 Votes.

Maybe End-Game Bonuses can affect TIES (to break the tie for example). Again not there yet... Will read more and share more of my thoughts as I read!

Or close regions like 3 Red, 3 Blue, 2 Green and 2 Orange... could also have an End-Game Bonus trigger for TIGHT battles in the polls. IDK... one step at a time!

Note #1: On page 16 ... There is a Action to REMOVE 2 Votes. In addition to other penalties. So I'm BANG-ON with regards to HOW you had already planned and designed the "Scandal" Action.

It's just that with Electoral Voting (by REGION), those 2 VOTES can make a BIG impact in terms of CONTROLLING a region and thereby determining who wins in that particular region... Again I will read more. I think that most of my IDEAS are very SIMILAR to what you have... And just offer up a bit of more "streamlining" making the Actions selectable and dividing up the board ... Is really two (2) difference that are NOT too significant (they are rather reasonable) and the result is something much more "exciting" IMHO...

questccg
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Another quick comment

I retract my suggestion of a "WALK" Travel Token. Once per turn, you can use ONLY one (1) Action but you have two (2) Meeples, so in reality you have 2 Actions per turn. And this is EXACTLY how YOUR version is designed. So no changes in that sense.

But I figured out of ALL the Actions, MOVEMENT is ONE (1) Action, Campaign Related Actions like Rally, Press Influence, Scandal, And Members are all additional Actions that can be taken also on ONE (1) TURN.

This means EITHER you MOVE (from one location to another) or you CAMPAIGN (in the current Electorate). This may be a difference from your OWN version... I that you were wanting to have TWO (2) Actions per turn (movement + campaigning).

I am suggesting you have 2 Meeples and each perform ONE (1) Action.

I think this is different from one of your earlier remarks... But I'll wait for you to respond before adding an additional comment. Let's just say that you are getting extra attention from all the anonymous visitors! :-)

Note #1: I also wanted to add that IF you decide to DIVIDE the Board a bit more (like ridings/electorates), this would mean that your game would have a serious "Area Control" mechanic combined with a "Action Selection" mechanic in addition to a "Tactical" layer for movement. Again more in the direction you were wanting to go in...

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Just a quick reply. There is

Just a quick reply. There is a US side of the board split into regions and what you suggested is like that. There are far more regions and votes are given for majority and 2nd place in a particular region. I want to create the UK side a little differently in voting.

When I suggested using action tokens, this is in same way as using action cards. Therefore you play 2 per turn, 4 in a round in total. Each token/card will have a travel symbol that creates the option of following an action. Hope that makes sense. This would mean no leaders are required, only staff pieces to place on the trackers.

questccg
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I've been very busy today and have appointments tomorrow... but

I should be able to maybe read some more tonight and tomorrow night. Don't worry I'll get through the rules. It's just that I am a bit busy during the day at home... Had to wash the floors today (did 1/3 of the apartment) and since I have things to do tomorrow, I will TRY to time it, that I do my office next (wash the floors) and then leave and let it dry on its own.

But it's a whole cleaning process: I need to dust, vacuum and then swiffer the floors (with wet pads)... And I try to do the areas several times to be sure all of the dirt is cleaned away. Obviously the office is a smaller space but it is used more frequently so the floors may take a few tries to get it all done.

I've got more planning to do for tomorrow... I'm a bit tired today!

And to get back to your:

JayProducer wrote:
Therefore you play 2 per turn, 4 in a round in total. Each token/card will have a travel symbol that creates the option of following an action.

This is because you have 2 Meeples and 2 action: move + action. What I would think about is going with 1 Meeple and 1 action: move OR action and then have 2 Meeples on the board... Comes out to something similar I think ... TBD. Let me know your thoughts on this too...

Best!

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