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A Game About Forgetting

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Noah McQ
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A little bit ago, I had Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild on my mind, along with the Horizon franchise. I was thinking that lost technology is such a cool concept, and I was musing on bringing it to a board game. Now, I could just make some deckbuilder or something and simply theme the cards or the board or the tokens around lost technology, but I bet could do something even MORE immersive!

If the theme was "forgotten technology", then what if the technology was actually forgotten? What if there were advantageous maneuvers or powerful resources that needed to be remembered by the players in order to be utilized? The players themselves would represent societies, and they would feel the shock of recovering information they once had. Information that they did not mean to lose.

But how could this be done? It can't be forgettable rules because then they couldn't be played by, so it must be forgettable resources. A concealable significance, i.e. the front of a card. They need to be positioned in such a way where they are accessible without being readable, i.e. face-down on the table. If cards are resources, you must limit how many can be collected, i.e. you only get a few per turn.

And then it hit me: this game already exists. It's Concentration. Pick two cards if they match you get them. They make this game for babies using Sesame Street characters.

X3M
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Brainstorm?

Who doesn't know the mechanic that you just described?
But I don't think it is the right mechanic to be honest.
You need to place all the cards on the table?

I know that you want the memory aspect to be part of it. But I don't think it should work that way. Here is my idea on the matter. You are free to use what, if not all, if not nothing at all.

What if you work with a shuffled deck? And pick cards randomly from it each round or so.

The player keeps the cards, but you need 2 or 3 of the same in order to activate the cards. Then, the player also needs to put back 2 or 3 cards into the deck again. But, they are put in a position that other players know. At the bottom or, more difficult, any KNOWN location. The latter would serve as a memory effect with an extra dimension. Meaning that if cards are picked from the deck. The deck changes too, thus the location of a card that a player wants or needs to be tracked by that player by memory.

Also, players should have a constant view on the cards that all other players posses? So they can act on it. And know of each other what cards are where, so far.

Other players who need cards that were put back in the deck, could go for them as well. Risking, putting back cards themselves as well, that might help yet another player.
Or, other players pick a certain card that they know of the other player needs. And keep them out of reach for a certain time.

It would be "knowledge" and it could be used for bargaining, deals, or selling.
Also, I think that allowing complete technologies to be put back in the deck. After it was placed on the table for effect. Should be allowed. But making the cards worth more (+1, +2 or x2 idk). It can be completely customized.

A super technology could be 4 or even more cards.

But the biggest question would be, how many cards can be in hand or as "hand" placed on the table?
And with for example 7. Then a technology of 4 cards requires another technology to be placed on the table for activation before. Thus, having more cards as resources for the bigger technologies.

Cheers, X3M

Steve
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My Thoughts

My first thoughts on a game where players need to 'remember' a lost technology would be the main mechanic to Clue (or Cluedo, wherever you live): Different players have different cards (representing descriptive parts of a technology) and they need to check with other players which technologies each player has to figure out which technology is 'missing.'

A player can take a guess as to what the technology is but, if they get it wrong, they take a massive penalty which would discourage early guesses.

You could have two types of cards: Action cards and 'technology cards' mixed together in a central draw pile. With each turn, a player picks up a card and then plays it (ex. "You discover a hut... But so does everyone else! Flip over the next three cards in the pile for everyone to see and then place those cards at the bottom of the pile.")

I don't know how you'd want it themed but I can imagine different tribes stumbling upon an ancient, forgotten city or maybe early 1900s archeological teams doing the same. A lot of possibilities.

Anyway, good luck with it!

questccg
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The only thing I can add to this...

I would explore something with a variable DECK with all the "Forgotten technologies" that explain how the evolution of the technologies occurs.

Like a Card-Variant of this would be to have a RANDOMIZED DECK (of "x" cards) and that each card in the Deck would have rules like: "Discard the two next cards" or "Select one of the three next cards" or "Draw the next card", etc. etc.

So you have a Random Deck and each card has rules how to move WITHIN the deck.

And you would have an OPTION: Either choose the TOP MOST CARD and "uncover" this Forgotten Technology OR follow the rules of the TOP MOST CARD in uncovering more and other Technology.

The game is ALWAYS DIFFERENT since the DECK is Random (Shuffled) and each Technology Card has a different RULE to moving through the Deck.

So this looks to be a SEARCHING (and discovering) type of MECHANIC to "search or browse" the DECK of "Forgotten Technologies".

For now this is ALL I have. If my explanation in UNCLEAR or you have some more Questions, please let me know. I'll do my best to explain or answer any of your questions.

Best!

Note #1: Another idea is some kind of MONETARY exchange. Like IF YOU DON'T CHOOSE THIS CARD, PAY 100 Gold. That's another way to throttle the deck: it costs you "money", "resources", "actions", etc. etc. to continue SEARCHING for NEW "Forgotten Technologies". So you can't search FOREVER because it COSTS you "something" to SKIP a Technology.

Note #2: And reminiscent to your "memory" concept, you don't necessarily land up with the BEST "Forgotten Technology" because you may have SKIPPED a Tech only to land up with a choice between 3 other Techs that don't really interest you either.

So in a WAY, it's a bit Push-Your-Luck... But you don't know what you will get if YOU DO Push-Your-Luck. You may get a better tech or you may get a worst one than BEFORE...

Note #3: You could have a RULE which FORCES you to TAKE THAT card. Like: "You must select THIS technology card." And that can BLOCK you from progressing into other "Forgotten Technologies".

Note #4: You're going to say: "Where's the MEMORY aspect???" And my answer is "Deck Knowledge" and multiple REPLAYS. The more and more you PLAY the game, the more you are FAMILIAR with the "Forgotten Technologies" that you COULD DRAW. Of course the SKIPPING and such means that even if you have a good memory, you can't MASTER the game due to the RANDOM rules option...

Note #5: You can also have RULES that allow you to BROWSE the "Discarded" Technologies pile ... Like: "Search the Discard for a Technology of your choice. Pay 'Y' to do so." So it's a COMBO of cool card and it costs a bit to use that RULE.

Note #6: My LAST note (Hehehe for this comment)... You could also have RULES that allow you to "Gift" other players... Like: "If you give this Technology to an opponent, you earn '+Z'." So a good deed and you earn something to help you too (but not a Technology... Some kind of monetary or game-related option).

Let me know what you think!

questccg
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Also for you to consider

Is that the "Discard Deck" is the PAST Deck. Some cards allow you to MOVE into the FUTURE (as I have explained in my previous comment) and SOME cards allow you to go back into the PAST (Discard Deck).

Some could have options of doing BOTH: "Draw 3 TOPMOST cards from the FUTURE or the PAST." Yeah the writing of the RULES becomes more challenging and tricky.

But I'm sure you get the idea.

That's also more of a MEMORY mechanic...

You could have THREE (3) card options: On the LEFT the "Discard" call it the PAST. In the middle, one (1) card, call it the PRESENT. And then on the RIGHT the "Draw deck" call it the FUTURE.

You can have some cards that EXILE a "Technology" like: "If you choose this Technology, EXILE the topmost card in the PAST (discard)."

That could be another form of COST that PERMANTLY alters the Technologies available to the players.

Anyhow let me know if ANY of this is of VALUE to you. I'll stop now and focus on my Spanish Translation of "Quest Adventure Cards(tm)" - The Reboot (QuestAC_v1.5) Got to work on that and finish it off...

Cheers.

questccg
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Some additional thoughts

If you like the concept of PAST/PRESENT/FUTURE in terms of cards... What you could have is a TABLE with ALL the "Technologies" Available. As you MOVE cards from FUTURE to PAST, you can DISABLE those "Technologies" and make them FORGOTTEN.

Maybe have a TABLE with Acrylic Cubes (or Wooden Ones)... I just find the Acrylic ones to be more "Futuristic" and suit the context for your concept.

Anyhow.. Every time a Technology Card goes from "FUTURE" to "PAST" you look at that card and the associated TABLE ENTRY loses an Acrylic Cube. Eg. The Technology is "forgotten".

This is KINDA like your MEMORY idea ... But involves cards and Decks in a more comprehensible method rather than the Child's Memory Game.

Again these are JUST IDEAS... Let me know if ANY of this makes ANY SENSE and could work for whatever it is you are working on. Like I said, there are mirrors to the Child's Memory Game but in a different method of play.

Lastly... The Technologies IN-PLAY (that have not been discarded) are the given Technologies AVAILABLE "in-the-present" so-to-speak. The Discard or The PAST... Contains all the "Forgotten Technologies" and therefore means that the player's lose access to them.

Again if you have Questions, want more details or need explanations ... I think this is a SOLID concept working in tandem with the Original Post (OP).

This comment makes the circle complete and rounds out what could be used rather than rely on a game of Memory.

Sincerely.

Note #1: You could have a DECK of 75 Cards and a 5 x 15 Table for the Technologies. Alternatively you could have 3 x 25 Table which is thinner but longer... And could be placed ALONG-SIDE the Game's Board as a reminder which technologies are still in-play and which ones are "Forgotten". Something like that TBH.

Noah McQ
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wow you guys have a lot of ideas

Sorry for the novella

questccg wrote:
these are JUST IDEAS... Let me know if ANY of this makes ANY SENSE and could work for whatever it is you are working on

I didn't mean to imply this, but I'm not working on anything using this idea. I just saw the "New Game Ideas" forum and I thought, "Hey! Let's jog up a little conversation." Still, I'm happy with the results

X3M wrote:
the player also needs to put back 2 or 3 cards into the deck again. But, they are put in a position that other players know. At the bottom or, more difficult, any KNOWN location.

wooooaaaaah
That's a great idea. That's really cool yeah. It makes me want to grab some playing cards and start experimenting. Call it "Lost Kings" or something and you need to hold the Kings with certain conditions...

X3M wrote:
But the biggest question would be, how many cards can be in hand

I'm imagining a really low number, like 4, and that this game would be played with normal playing cards with many cards removed. Deck size of like 26

Steve wrote:
My first thoughts on a game where players need to 'remember' a lost technology would be the main mechanic to Clue

I hate Clue, so I didn't like the idea at first, but now I'm warming up to it. However, I suggest a separation of the action cards and technology cards, and let the technology cards all start in the hands of the players. It would BE Clue, but it would be an enhanced Clue because of the action deck. We could even make action cards super strong if we deregulate the technology-card-reveal process: if we allow players to show each other their information cards semi-freely, then we don't have to feel bad about letting action cards steal information cards or swap cards with the secret-in-the-envelope cards. I also like the 1900's archaeologist theme

questccg wrote:
each card in the Deck would have rules like: "Discard the two next cards" or "Select one of the three next cards" or "Draw the next card", etc. etc. So you have a Random Deck and each card has rules how to move WITHIN the deck.

Now THIS idea would be really cool with X3M's idea. You could have a deck of cards, and players would draw from it and be required to put cards back into it. The cards IN the deck are rare, scoring cards and plenty of deck-navigation cards. Those deck-navigating cards would have to be combined with player memory and deck-tracking to get them the scoring cards they want. Bonus: totally playable with normal playing cards. Exciting!

questccg wrote:
Note #1: Another idea is some kind of MONETARY exchange. Like IF YOU DON'T CHOOSE THIS CARD, PAY 100 Gold. That's another way to throttle the deck: it costs you "money", "resources", "actions", etc. etc. to continue SEARCHING for NEW "Forgotten Technologies". So you can't search FOREVER because it COSTS you "something" to SKIP a Technology.

Personally, I'd prefer to limit the number of actions per turn, or to have the card which grants the search be consumed. I dunno, I like to minimize components.

questccg wrote:
Note #4: You're going to say: "Where's the MEMORY aspect???" And my answer is "Deck Knowledge" and multiple REPLAYS.

I just got here and you already know me too well lol
I don't feel this is unique enough to have "memory" stand out as an aspect of this game; all games with unique cards are played better by memorizing the cards. But again, it's not like I'm working on anything, just having fun talking about ideas

questccg wrote:
Note #5: You can also have RULES that allow you to BROWSE the "Discarded" Technologies pile

He has no clue what idea he's about to have. This suggestion doesn't entirely match up with the theme of "Lost Technology" because these mechanics could just as adequately describe the invention of NEW technologies. But look at this:

questccg wrote:
Also for you to consider Is that the "Discard Deck" is the PAST Deck. Some cards allow you to MOVE into the FUTURE (as I have explained in my previous comment) and SOME cards allow you to go back into the PAST (Discard Deck).

Yes! Now THIS has me excited. The Future is the draw deck, the Past is the discard. The Future is unknown, face-down, the past is known, face-up, but it's out of reach. It's known, but not practiced; it's deprecated. This mechanic very well explores the effect of time on technology, and I think it's really cool
Unfortunately, I don't see how it's compatible with the idea of replacing cards into the deck and using cards to search through the deck, which is also what I was excited about. Well, they could be two different games

questccg wrote:
You could have THREE (3) card options: On the LEFT the "Discard" call it the PAST. In the middle, one (1) card, call it the PRESENT. And then on the RIGHT the "Draw deck" call it the FUTURE.

Similar idea: players are permitted to draw randomly from the Future or take their choice from the Past, and these cards are added to their hand. Each player's hand is the Present, and each player's hand has a restrictive size limit. The cards in a player's hand can help them draw from either deck, affect their hand limit, or help them score points, and that's using only this mechanic. You could throw in battle or an economy or birds or something, and this idea could go many places.

questccg wrote:
Anyhow.. Every time a Technology Card goes from "FUTURE" to "PAST" you look at that card and the associated TABLE ENTRY loses an Acrylic Cube. Eg. The Technology is "forgotten".

This last idea I'm not sure I understand. Do you propose having a table which represents cards, and that cards, when discarded, cause the table to lose a cube? I imagine that the cards and table are categorized (e.g. farming technology, medicine technology)? If this is the idea, how is this better than the cards representing themselves? Unless there are fewer cubes on the table than there are cards of a category, in which case it would still be possible to draw cards of a category without being able to play it, but I don't see how this could be used.

Anyways, I'm so happy to see what you all have to say. It's certainly reminding me that I like game design, and it's given me some ideas to try with my decks

questccg
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"ABC": "Always Be Closing"! Is my NEW Motto.

questccg wrote:
Anyhow.. Every time a Technology Card goes from "FUTURE" to "PAST" you look at that card and the associated TABLE ENTRY loses an Acrylic Cube. Eg. The Technology is "forgotten".

Noah McQ wrote:
This last idea I'm not sure I understand. Do you propose having a table which represents cards, and that cards, when discarded, cause the table to lose a cube? I imagine that the cards and table are categorized (e.g. farming technology, medicine technology)? If this is the idea, how is this better than the cards representing themselves? Unless there are fewer cubes on the table than there are cards of a category, in which case it would still be possible to draw cards of a category without being able to play it, but I don't see how this could be used.

I was thinking of a PLAYER AID. Like those Victory Tracks in most of Jamey Stegmaier's games (Scythe, Euphoria, et. al). Just to name a few. They all have Victory Tracks that are either PART of the Board or some kind of "secondary" Scoring Tracks of some sorts.

You could have the SAME type of Technologies per Player and each player has a board of 15 Technologies. So at the start of the game all player start with ALL future technologies. As you discard to the PAST technologies... They can be identical but matter by PLAYER COLOR.

Quote:
So if I'm Player #1 and Blue and Player #2 is Red, and it's Player #1 turn and he draws a RED technology... Since he is blue... He's probably NOT interested in holding on to that card and then "Skip 2 cards" and then he sees 1 Yellow Technology and another Red Technology and so that means 2 Red Technologies have been "forgotten" and one Yellow one too... But the next card is BLUE and Player #1 decides to KEEP it and add it to his "hand"(?) or "Area of Play".

Again just ideas. I'll stop now. Because it's of no interest to you. I had thought this might have been something you were working on or looking into to get more inspiration.

Enough said. That's my preference as I have so many projects (almost a dozen) I contribute to HELP people ... Not for fun.

Don't worry it was perfectly acceptable to discuss this Memory Topic... It's all Game Design. But with relatively limited time, I focus on what I have to do NEXT. Speaking of, I finished shipping "Dual Dice" KS TODAY! Woohoo. Done... Just need to monitor the UK/EU/AU International Packages because it seems like they are taking more time to travel to their destination. At least no UPDATES on the Tracking Sites... Anyhow... For me to worry about.

I also wrapped up the Spanish Translation of QuestAC_v1.5 (Reboot) too... I'll try to get that discussed in the next few weeks... Whatever works better. TBD. But I've got some designing to do too... So we'll have to wait and see.

I've got an appointment tomorrow and we'll see how that goes (Hopefully good because my Accountant said he needed some kind of clarifications...) So that means he was working on my Corporate Income Taxes and something had come up.

Anyhow we'll see soon enough what the issue is. (In my mind it could be one or more of banking transactions or my Closing Balances for PayPal as I use this for my business). We'll see.

Cheers mate.

Noah McQ
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All Right, I Got One

I think this strays from the initial theme, but it uses some of the mechanics we thought of early in the thread

I'm calling it Arizona Swap because I live in Arizona. It's an abstract strategy game for 2 players and uses 2 suits of a normal deck of playing cards with 1 Joker (using more than half a deck of cards is a headache)

It's inverted in that the draw pile is face-up, and the discard is face-down. I found that laying out the entire draw pile in rows of 10 cards after shuffling is helpful. On your turn, you're going to either draw the top card from the draw deck or swap a number card from your hand with that ordinal number card in either the draw pile or the discard pile (e.g. you can swap your 3 card with the 3rd card from the top of the draw pile or discard pile). Players' hands are also face-up, and they're limited to 3 cards, so discard down to 3 cards after you draw. Your objective is to end your turn with 2 face cards of the same suit in your hand. Ace is a number 1 card. The Joker is neither a number card nor a face card, so it can used to neither swap nor win

I like it. The number cards are those deck-navigation cards, and the draw pile being face-up lets them be used for informed decisions. The discard pile being face-down after cards have been seen going into it gives the whole memory aspect. The need to collect two suit-matching face cards uses that idea X3M had where you need several of a matching "super technology" to score big

Anyways, I think that's all the rules. I'd love if you gave Arizona Swap a try and critiqued it, or if you told me the game already exists (always happens when you're proud of an idea haha). I didn't touch on every idea in this thread; I could see myself coming back for another small game

larienna
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I read the thread in

I read the thread in diagonal. I was not sure if the forgetting concepts part of the theme or the mechanics.

For the theme, there are many options for discovering lost tech including: Alien visited a long time ago, or perished advanced civilization like the Maya (presumably), or a post-appocalytic theme.

For the mechanics. Order overload is the only memory game I found interesting where players needs to collectively remember orders that was previously enumerated.

questccg
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I have ANOTHER IDEA...

Reading what you shared and I thought... Hmmm. Very interesting!

So you could have two (2) Players with their OWN Deck: Black (Spades & Clubs) and Red (Hearts & Diamonds).

Those decks are composed of numbers from 1 to 10 (for each SUIT).

Your GOAL is to "hold the Royal Court"! Unfortunately the NAME "Royal Court" has already been taken by a couple of people and therefore cannot be used.

An ALTERNATIVE name is the "Court of Cards".

So what do I mean:

questccg wrote:
Players must TOTAL EXACTLY 11, 12 and 13 points to WIN the game. The Order is unimportant and players can choose whatever order they prefer... But the COUNTS in-hand must be EXACT.

So however you progress in your Deck, you must "sacrifice" a card IN-HAND to move forwards into the "FUTURE" Deck and discard a "Card" to the top of the Discard from your HAND.

Here's the real KICKER: when you achieve a TOTAL (11, 12 or 13)... At that point in TIME, you REFRESH your Deck with the ENTIRE Discard pile and shuffle to a NEW Deck.

questccg wrote:
But that's not all...

Each of these three (3) Royal cards give you AN ABILITY. What ability?! Here's what I have and if you don't like you can think of your OWN.

Jack, the Coup: When the Jack is played, you may immediately force an opponent to RANDOMLY discard one card from their hand. In addition, that player MUST discard a card GREATER in value otherwise this ability cannot be used. For example: If I randomly choose a "8" to discard, the opponent (who played the Jack) must have a "9" or "10" and must also be willing to sacrifice that card into their discard.

Queen, the Purse: When the Queen is in-play, when you draw a card from your Deck, you instead draw two cards from the deck, and then return one card to the bottom of the DECK (not the discard) and keep the other card in-hand.

King, the Guard: When the King is in-play, no Coup (Jack) may be played against you. This card acts as protection to ensure that nobody can mess with your Royal Goals.

These are some of my attempts to add some EXTRA strategy to the concept. Going for a Jack may be good ... But an opponent may focus on their King to ensure safety during future rounds.

How you play is a bit TRICKY... Again these are JUST IDEAS.

You are welcome to disregard, adapt, derive your own take on these ideas. Feel free to ask any questions or post more thoughts and comments about these ideas and how you feel about them.

Kudos!

Note #1: Another point is that you should increase your HAND size to 5 cards AT MAXIMUM... This gives you tricky cards to play with your Jack and allow for different types of sacrifices.

At MINIMUM you need only TWO (2) CARDS for an EXACT total: 10 + 3 = 13. or 9 + 4 = 13, 8 + 5 = 13, 7 + 6 = 13, etc. etc. That's if you are trying to connect with your King.

Note #2: @Larienna might be better at computing ODDS given a 20 Card Decks. I'm not super great with MATH. @X3M may also be good at computing odds too... I'm just saying don't ask me anything about the probabilities. Beyond the scope of my MATH knowledge.

Note #3: You can see with MY "Jack" Ability that I am TRYING to "throttle" this ability. And that there is a COST to pay to use that ability. Whereas the Queen is a cycling bonus and the King is to ensure that you keep all cards in-hand at all times. So there is a Counter-Balance between the Jack and the King.

Note #4: Court cards are played FACE-DOWN. When a count is MATCHED, the corresponding Court card is revealed and now in-play. You only have ONE (1) SET of King, Queen and Jack.

Which means that you set aside two (2) set of Face Cards (Jack, Queen and King) one for each side (Black and Red).

larienna
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Another idea that spawned

Another idea that spawned into my mind that could help, in "Aeon's end" (or a similar title), instead of shuffling cards, you flip your discard pile as a draw pile.

So the order by which you discard and play your cards matter. Same thing for your opponents I guess, but Aeon's end is a coop deck building game.

Maybe there is a way to integrate this mechanism in what ever you are designing.

Steve
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Assortment of Ideas

I had a few ideas for this game recently:

** What if you turned this game into an edutainment game about the archeological process? It would still be about discovering a 'forgotten technology' but the game would loosely mimic the archeological process.

** It would be a card game and the goal of the game would be the first person to acquire four TECHNOLOGY cards that are unique to what all of the other players possess (I'm presuming 3 or more players for the game).

** There are MONEY cards, ADVANTAGE cards, ACTION cards & TECHNOLOGY cards. MONEY, ACTION & TECHNOLOGY cards are in one pile (MAT) and ADVANTAGE cards are in another (ADV).

** Players may either draw one card from the MAT pile or use MONEY cards that they have acquired to buy an ADVANTAGE card. If they draw from the MAT pile, they keep a MONEY or a TECHNOLOGY card and must play the ACTION card immediately.

** MONEY cards are used to buy ADVANTAGE card. It's initially two MONEY cards for one advantage card but the price (for a player, not collectively) increases by one MONEY card for every purchase (ex. 3 MONEY for 1 adv, then 4 MONEY for 1 adv, etc.).

** An ADVANTAGE card gives that player... Well, an advantage in winning the game in some small way. Example: You bribe a local government in allowing you preferred access to a dig site, you may now take TWO cards from the MAT pile per turn.

** An ACTION card may be anything and can 'change the game dramatically.' Example: A disaster has occurred at the laboratory analyzing artifacts from another player. That player must place one TECHNOLOGY card back into the pile and then reshuffle the pile.

** When a player has four different TECHNOLOGY cards that they think no other player has, they can reveal the cards to the other players for PEER REVIEW. If the other players have an identical card to the four presented, the attempt at PUBLISHING has failed and all of those cards that matched each other are sent back into the MAT pile and the pile is reshuffled.

At any rate, I thought that it was an interesting angle. Money helps with your archeological work (ADVANTAGE) and random events (ACTION) may further bolster or hinder those advantages (and your progress). When you have enough research (TECHNOLOGY), you publish your findings (PEER REVIEW) and, if your research survives the peer review process, you win.

questccg
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Some questions for you...

If you must acquire FOUR (4) unique "Technology" Cards, how many cards in total may be found in the Technology Deck? Also there must be duplicates of each "Technology" Card which leads me to think in this game, the number of SAME "Technology" Cards are equal to "Number of Player"?? So you could have a Deck with up to SIX (6) of the same "Technology" Cards if you want to allow from 2 to 6 players to play the game.

Secondly for the "Advantage" Cards, do you plan to have some kind of DRAFTING mechanic in which players BID for cards before earning said "Advantage"??? Like if the number of "Advantage" Cards available to BUY are "Number of Players + 2". This would mean than for a 3-Player game, you would have five (5) "Advantage" Cards you may purchase (assuming maximum 1 card per Round).

I think a "Drafting" mechanic for "Advantage" Cards could be easier to manage than a "secretive" buying of a card that all players don't know the COST of the card if secrecy is preserved. So this means that in a 3-Player game, five (5) "Advantage" Cards would be revealed and players can BID for the advantages during a ROUND and at the end of the ROUND the bidding process is resolved and each player gets the card they paid for. Next you draw up the number of missing "Advantage" Cards from the Deck and refresh the Bidding Area for the next ROUND.

This means that the COST of buying and the type of "Advantage" is known by the players but much like the "Forgetting Technology", forgetting the "Advantages" a player may have is also a reality unless you have a good memory of memorizing each player's hand of "Advantages"... Either way, "Losing Track" of cards is a reality too... And is also a way to FORGET the "Advantages" that each player has...

So its in the same vein as the "Archeological" Theming but also a REALISTIC way of losing track of "Advantage" Cards bought during the Bidding Process.

Good stuff @Steve... We'll see OP has to say about this idea!

questccg
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Another question for you?

How many cards should be a part of a Players' Hand??? Is there a limit?? Or is it as many cards as you like?

Also the "Technology" Cards, do you play those FACEDOWN until the right moment to reveal them like in "Clue" or "Cluedo"? Like when a Player has collected FOUR (4) "Technology" Cards ... Does he reveal them ONE-AT-A-TIME saying: "I have this Technology!" And then player check their own cards FACEDOWN to see if they ALREADY have this "Technology" and therefore all player with said Technology Card need to DISCARD that card...?

I'm just trying to picture how to resolve this "Technology" REVEAL. And it reminds me a lot of "Clue" or "Cluedo".

Also what happens down the line... Like what if NOBODY manages to get FOUR (4) UNIQUE "Technology" Cards before they players reach the bottom of the DECK...?

Just examining all aspects to be sure nothing is left to WONDER about.

Cheers @Steve. Again let's see what the OP thinks, this may not even be his own personal direction for his game...

Steve
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Reconsiderations

You bring up a lot of valid points. Again, these thoughts were a "broad strokes" framework for a game. Such issues as "how many cards for one thing or another thing" was way beyond the scope of that post (or my thoughts, for that matter).

If I had to think through the concept even more, my direction would be this:

** MONEY doesn't have enough to do as-is (it only buys ADVANTAGE cards and can be bolstered/hindered by various ACTION cards). Therefore, in order to make MONEY cards more usable, use it as a gatekeeper for getting published (the PEER REVIEW stage of the game). You need X amount of MONEY cards in order to publish, give or take whatever ADVANTAGE cards you have that modifies that total.

** If it's an edutainment game, then keeping it simple is paramount. Kids have tablets, they have smartphones... Peoples' eyes glaze over when they see too many rules. *MY* eyes glaze over when I see too many rules. Therefore, there can be a simpler way of playing (BASIC) and a more rules-heavy method (ADVANCED).

** In that same vein, the method for purchasing an ADVANTAGE card could be simplified now that MONEY is also used for another portion of the game. Players can't just willy-nilly use their MONEY cards for ADVANTAGE cards but store some in reserve for when they want to go to PEER REVIEW.

** The method for winning can be inverted if necessary. Instead of having 4 TECHNOLOGY cards that no one else has, just have four *different* TECH cards. If another player has those same combination of cards, then it's not a 'forgotten technology,' now is it? All of the players who have matching cards to the player going through PR have to dump their cards and the pile is re-shuffled.

In the end, I envision a game that is somewhat high in randomness with just enough strategy to keep kids & pre-teens fairly entertained and the adults who have to play with them somewhat amused by the in-jokes on the cards.

BONUS - One category of TECH card would be "Material" - Wood, Stone, Concrete, Bronze, etc. The others could be something like, "Object," "Industry" & "Function." Therefore, you could have silly combinations such as "A bronze door used in sacrifices to make the skies rain!" That'll put a smile on a few faces. "I found a concrete compass used in farming that hurts anyone who touches it!"

questccg
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No worries... I just wanted to help you along with your ideas

Steve wrote:
You bring up a lot of valid points. Again, these thoughts were a "broad strokes" framework for a game. Such issues as "how many cards for one thing or another thing" was way beyond the scope of that post (or my thoughts, for that matter).

No worries, I was NOT challenging you, I just figured that since they were your ideas, maybe you had further thoughts in how to put it all together. See that's the thing about AI: it presents interesting IDEAS but when you TRY to put things together... the whole doesn't make sense. Much like MidJourney deciding a human character should have 6 fingers per hand. Take liberties and makes a garbled result (And no I'm not accusing you of using AI... I'm just explaining why I asked some more question)...

Steve wrote:
** MONEY doesn't have enough to do as-is...

Since you want to have cards that have a monetary value, maybe PEER REVIEW is FREE but ALL ACTIONS cost money. So you just can't PLAY the baddest ACTION unless you think it's worth the COST to do so.

If we go with a Drafting-style for ADVANCEMENT Cards, MONEY is used to for the DRAFT. This means you need to prioritize BUY ACTIONS (as events or actual occurrences) vs. BUY ADVANCEMENTS (in the draft which give you a tactical advantage).

So you have to choose between "out-bidding" a DRAFT ROUND for an ADVANCEMENT or doing some kind of ACTION on your TURN... You can DO BOTH but "inefficiently" IMHO. Depends how lucky you are in terms of MONEY.

Steve wrote:
** If it's an edutainment game, then keeping it simple is paramount...

Having two (2) modes of play is too complicated IMHO. Kids can play with parents and LEARN the game if it is of interest. But let me be honest: kids are tough crowd to please. Edutainment is the focus well MAYBE(!) parents might be interested in having their children learn more about "Archeology". Is that YOUR "preferred" theme???

Steve wrote:
** The method for winning can be inverted if necessary...

I personally like the UNIQUE Technology and maybe you have like FOUR (4) CATEGORIES of TECH cards. They are all in one Deck/Pile but you have to collect one of each. And I like the idea OF CREATING SOMETHING with the TECH cards. Like the BONUS idea a lot... That's the BEST part I believe.

Steve wrote:
BONUS ... Therefore, you could have silly combinations such as "A bronze door used in sacrifices to make the skies rain POP-TARTS!" That'll put a smile on a few faces. "I found a concrete compass used in farming that turns anyone who touches it to stone SCARECROW!"

I EDITED it ... Because I think your version was a bit masochistic ... But overall a great contribution and something for @"Noah McQ" (OP) to think about and see what his own version of game looks like. Definitely some good ideas too...

Cheers!

Noah McQ
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Joined: 09/06/2025
I Like Half of This

I like Steve's mechanic of two decks, one of which has a mixture of progress, upgrade currency, and random effects, but I'm having a hard time thematically justifying the necessitating of possessing unique cards to win. Why? Why must no other player hold the same card as me? This other guy also spelunked an Egyptian pot so now mine doesn't mean anything? I'm also having a hard time gameplay-atically justifying the necessitating of unique cards to win. How am I supposed to control which Technology cards I draw? How am I supposed to find out other players' Technology cards?

I imagine the answer would be through the Advancement cards that do things like "look at another player's hand" or something, and those random, instantaneous Action cards that would do the same thing. This I think is a flaw, for knowing a player's cards is integral to this proposed game, but any information on a player's cards is restricted to random assignment through card draw. And it's not like this is Poker, where you can analyze somebody's betting patterns to guess what their cards are. I mean, unless you could... through like a drafting mechanic...

questccg
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Not your flavor ... Everyone has their own VISION...

Given that @Steve took the time to share his thoughts on your "concept" and now that you have some kind of IDEA what he was proposing... In your own words, what do you think works and what doesn't?!

The necessity of two (2) Decks IMHO comes from the Drafting Mechanic. Otherwise you could have ALL cards in one Deck. That's one key take-away.

@Steve put forth the premise of REQUIRING UNIQUE Cards to win the game and PEER REVIEW process. I was iffy on this because it reminds me a lot of "Clue" or "Cluedo"... Where you make a statement and people try to debunk your reasoning.

I guess the other reasoning is that it forces WIN CONDITIONS which could be MORE complicated than "Gather 4 cards and win!"

So I just went with that... Even though I have no personal attachment to that REQUIREMENT other than it serves as a way of "throttling" game play a bit.

What I DID LIKE was the whole FOUR (4) CATEGORY of CARDS. Why? Because this too is a more CLEVER way of throttling the game. You can't just COLLECT FOUR (4) Cards and WIN... You need a card from each Category such that you DISCOVER a new invention which is capable of being something FUNNY and WACKY too!

I thought that was CLEVER and I liked it.

***

They KEY was FORGETTING ... And I didn't get that vibe from what was being described.

questccg wrote:
Is that the "Discard Deck" is the PAST Deck. Some cards allow you to MOVE into the FUTURE (as I have explained in my previous comment) and SOME cards allow you to go back into the PAST (Discard Deck).

Some could have options of doing BOTH: "Draw 3 TOPMOST cards from the FUTURE or the PAST." Yeah the writing of the RULES becomes more challenging and tricky.

But I'm sure you get the idea.

That's also more of a MEMORY mechanic...

I like the 1 Deck and 1 Discard with PAST / PRESENT / FUTURE ... As elements that sort of BUILD the whole FORGETTING.

So the FOCUS is on PRESENT. You DRAW A CARD from the FUTURE and place it in the PRESENT (for all to see). No secrecy... The key is FORGETTING and therefore the GOAL and PURPOSE of the "DISCARD PILE" which is the PAST...

Let's say you hand can have up to 5 cards. Four (4) of which you need to FIND the Archeological Find and reveal it to the WORLD... TO WIN! You play those cards ON THE TABLE ... So again NO SECRECY.

Now when the PRESENT card is drawn... You can choose to TAKE IT and place it in your hand and END YOUR TURN. Or you may PLACE IT ON TOP of the DISCARD.

So everyone can sorta remember the 3 last cards in the DISCARD plus have 5 Cards in their HAND...

You could have 3 ACTIONS per turn. Before placing the card in the DISCARD, you do as the card offers you to do:

+ For example take the NEXT "x" Cards in the FUTURE and move them to the DISCARD.

+ Choose to draw "x" cards from either the PAST or the FUTURE.

+ Penalties: like discard "x" cards from your HAND. **Remember your research is visible to all and doesn't count.

+ Bonuses: like draw "x" cards from the FUTURE and SELECT AT MOST "y" to keep in hand.

+ etc. etc.

***

This is a bit more in the vein of "FORGETTING THE PAST" and when you DISCARD cards from the PRESENT to the PAST... You SHOW which cards are going into the DISCARD PILE (Past). This also is very important... Why?

Because if you see a card you NEED to WIN WITH... And it goes into the PAST, you might have the chance to GO BACK TO THE PAST and choose that card from the pile...

***

I'm going to be a bit HONEST. Not because this topic has reignited anything. The whole PAST / PRESENT / FUTURE was an idea for YOU. But I am working on a 1-Deck Game which allows players to go through a deck multiple times to try to WIN. But there is no DISCARD PILE (PAST), there is a TOP CARD and there are specific types of cards in the DECK: like characters (Good & Bad), Locations (in the World) and one "Home Base" card... Which you have to try not to be captured before you do the same to your OPPONENT.

So I have Abilities on my cards like:

questccg wrote:
Hot Zone 3: Your opponent draws the "3" topmost cards of his Deck. If one of these cards is his "Home Base", they must place a Location before the "Home Base" card and return all "3" cards to the bottom of his Deck.

It's a very dangerous card and there is this sort of CARD MANIPULATION. It's a BAD card to draw for your opponent... Because it SETS-UP a VICTORY CONDITION for you the next time he returns to that "Location" card. If you CAPTURE the "Location" preceding the "Home Base", YOU will win the game.

***

That being said what @Steve proposed was different... And my own PAST / PRESENT / FUTURE Decks is also something different too. I don't have that concept in MY game... And so the games are different because it's not about forgetting... Because you can FAN your Deck to show your opponent the STATE of your DECK...

***

So to conclude... I THINK the whole PAST / PRESENT / FUTURE Decks is a UNIQUE idea and works with the ideas that YOU proposed.

It's something for you to think about and let us know if this makes sense to you.

Cheers!

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