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"more interesting" event cards

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Tue, 05/21/2024 - 00:23
Obistahr
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Some feedback I received after a pitch meeting was that I should consider more interesting event cards.

My game is a war themed game that is primarily a resource management game. It also has a timeline of events, dice combat, and a spy mechanism.

My events are generally immediate effects of a generally static nature--once they recent a certain space on the event timeline they have a finite effect with little choice. They generally consist of move some troops, lose/gain some troops/resources, gain/lose money, manipulate supplies, manipulate the timeline, etc.

I don't how to interpret "more interesting" for my game. I know that games like Scythe have some "events with choices" and maybe I need to go more in that direction. Any thoughts from the wisdom of the crowd on what could constitute "more interesting?"

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Tue, 05/21/2024 - 00:39
#1
larienna
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Events could be more

Events could be more interesting thematically. That means that the theme backing your events could be more interesting. But I doubt this is the case. You can always use ChatGPT to get thematic ideas ... useful for brain storming.

Events could be more interesting mechanically. I suspect that the events are just a lot of the same thing, which makes them less interesting. So the objective is to delimit the possibility space of your events (I used to call it "Area of effect"). What do you want your events to affect? (You named a few already) What are the limits?

You want to try to be consistent. If you want events with choices, that is fine, but make sure all or a good amount of events have choices. Don't make it the exception. Or you could rule out that choices will not be on the events.

There are 2 categories of effects:

Status changers: Alter the current status of the board. Require components somewhere to move or change. For events, that could means gaining resources, moving units, etc.

Rule Breakers: Alter the rules of the game. Nothing on the board gets altered but the rulebook is changed. For events, that could be having a special rule modification for the duration of the turn. For example, there is rain, movement reduced by 1, and -1 to attack rolls.

I made an article many years ago about rule space, it's not spot on the subject, but it could help:

Defining Rule Space

Enjoy!

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Tue, 05/21/2024 - 18:56
#2
questccg
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Some ideas to help you along...

Is to divide the game into "X"-Phases. Like maybe 1 to 3 "Chapters". In which the priorities of the Event cards vary.

Like say a "Chapter 1" Event only produces a LITTLE Gain of Money. However that same Card (Event) if drawn later and/or used in "Chapter 3" can produce a SIGNIFICANT amount of Money (like 2x 2D6 Gold) where the factor is "2x". I don't know the specifics so I am explaining in GENERAL terms (Haha... war-themed game... General... Hehehe!)

Or an Event can be a CURSE (like a Plague), in "Chapter 1" you lose some supplies (or Food/Grain) but in Chapter 2 and 3, you lose troops due to starvation...

Notice ALL "Event" cards have at most 3 Outcomes: 1 for each Chapter.

But some Event cards can be ONLY "Chapter 1" or "Chapter 2" or even "Chapter 3".

This sort of make for a more STRATEGIC decision when to play when there are MULTIPLE options (from 2 to 3 Chapters). This could DRAMATICALLY affect the game and make players KEEP(?) Event cards for a specific Chapter (is this possible??? Or do you need to play the Event card right-away???) or get rid of some curse as quickly as possible so as not to affect future turns.

The other idea that I have is "Event Card Drafting". So you have an Event Deck and you shuffle it and draw Players + 1 Cards. Those cards are placed in the middle of the table so everyone can see. Players go in-order and BID on Events...

So it's not only about LUCK of the draw, it's a question of FINANCES and STRATEGY too! Do you want to PAY TOO much for one card making it harder to get more future Events of your liking... Or are you willing to sacrifice for a GOOD "Chapter 1" Event or maybe if you are lucky you can get a inexpensive "Chapter 3" because players are in the NOW and not planning for their futures... etc.

These are a couple methods in which you can ADD STRATEGY, MORE CHOICE and more value to the Event Deck.

I hope some of this is of value to you! If you have questions, require some more feedback or simply want to discuss matters further, just reply to this comment and I'm sure we can continue this discussion...

Cheers!

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Tue, 05/21/2024 - 19:45
#3
questccg
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Let me clarify a bit...

questccg wrote:
...Or an Event can be a CURSE (like a Plague), in "Chapter 1" you lose some supplies (or Food/Grain) but in Chapter 2 and 3, you lose troops due to starvation...

I was thinking about the "Card Draft", more specifically the Events which act as PENALTIES (I said Curse...) is that MAYBE(?) they can be played AGAINST one of the opponents!

That will UP the VALUE of those cards as they serve as a way to HARM an opponent and if you're in the LEAD, players may want to stock-up on Penalties to slow you down in your tracks...

It just didn't sit right with me that you would have a Card Draft and then you would NEED to buy "penalties" against yourself... That made little to no sense.

However playing them AGAINST another player... That all of a sudden gots me perked up as total TAKE-THAT cards (in some small or even LARGE way!)

Just want to make sure I present this ... As you would probably be a bit reluctant to have players buy CRAPPY cards against themselves. Anyhow I'm sure you get my angle and understand the little (but important!) variation.

Best.

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Tue, 05/21/2024 - 20:17
#4
questccg
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Furthermore...

In the Event Card Drafting... As players BID for a Card, there should be like a Maximum of "Y Money" and the minimum pf "1 Money". Each round the first player shifts to the next player who is Player #1 for the round.

Obviously if it's like "5 Gold" Maximum Bid... The early players may want to spend 2 or 3 Gold and then a later player (in the draft) can spend 4 or 5 Gold if he really wants the card... Meaning that at some point, players may only spend 1 Gold but get the card they LEAST wanted.

That's one option.

Another options is each card comes with a COST. Play goes from 1st Player in the Round to last and each player BUYS a card in turn. To do so, they MUST pay the COST of that Event Card.

I think this option is BETTER since it's less about BIDDING and the Card Draft and a more straight-forward way of getting cards you want by paying the COST you are willing to spend.

Realistically this is the BETTER mechanic TBH. But who knows, you may want part of the competition to be the "Card Draft" and option #1 may offer more variability, flexibility and competition...

Sincerely.

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Tue, 05/21/2024 - 20:49
#5
questccg
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More about that Timeline

questccg wrote:
Is to divide the game into "X"-Phases. Like maybe 1 to 3 "Chapters". In which the priorities of the Event cards vary...

Also I re-read your OP and you mention having a TIMELINE. Is this sorta like the "X"-Phases I suggested or not?!

I ask because maybe all you then need is to tweak what you already have. Not sure how that "timeline" works and you'd need to clarify because you mention that some "Events" EXPIRE and this is sort of discarding a "Chapter 1"-ONLY Event when you are in Chapter 2 or 3 of the game.

The second option of the Card Draft may complicate the game ... But it may SEEM like there is more going on in the game with a draft. If you stick to Phases, well then it makes sense that Players + 1 cards are available to buy and MAYBE(?) you have the OPTION of NOT BUYING any Event Cards in a Round.

Anyways, I'll wait to hear back from you and see your thoughts on some of the ideas put forth in this thread. I guess from an outside perspective, these are some ideas (but you may ALREADY have something similar...) Not 100% sure.

Cheers.

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Tue, 05/21/2024 - 23:37
#6
Obistahr
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RE: "more interesting" event cards

Thanks so much for the ideas. Just to explain a bit further, my game is cooperative, so the events affect all the players collectively, or at least that is how I envision it at this time. The events are fortunes or misfortunes, with the effects being beneficial or hindering, respectively. The timeline reveals an event in the space just prior to its taking effect--basically, the players have a single turn of action to do something-- that is, unless they have deployed one or more spies to previous timeline locations. But to go further up the timeline cost more spies. The events are also intermixed with Battles, it is the Battles that serve as the timeclock...the players play out the battles until they have more wins than losses, or vice versa.

After writing the post last night, I did have some afterthought that my events do take a fairly instant consequence approach and maybe that is where I can consider improvement. I agree with the idea that maybe the effect is a standing effect for the round. As with the one example, inclement weather would movement to be reduced by one for the entire round, or maybe supplies cost more or exports generate more income for the turn. I think that could be fairly easy direction to try AND give more choice to players. If they want to do X action, but that effect is causing them to consider something else, then that would be "more interesting" in my book.

Thank you all again for the ideas and examples.

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Wed, 05/22/2024 - 00:07
#7
questccg
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Thanks for the update ... That REALLY helps!

Now that you've stated that your game is "cooperative"... Could it be "co-opetive" too??? Like players are trying to achieve ONE (1) Common Goal but also one player is considered the Winner?!

Again this is kinda irrelevant to what I mean by "co-opetive" gameplay.

Maybe an Event can have a Round Effect but it is different for the player who DREW that card vs. his companions.

I'm thinking back to what I said about Food/Grain Shortage. For the player drawing that Event, means he has less resources of a specific type. But the OTHER players have an Event of Starvation and therefore lose Troops from 1 from the Next Player in the Round to 4 for the Last Player in the Round...

Something like that could have DUALITIES and not the SAME for each player.

The Winner was just a way that normally games are played... But you can still compete and play together. Generally speaking "co-opetive" games are MORE engaging because Players make COMMON decisions TOGETHER but also sometimes make decisions based on where they are at in the Leaderboard.

The Effect of Event Cards (like different per player) could make the game more varied for sure... And the "co-opetive" style could be possible depending on the THEME of the game. Is this where the ROMANS battle the VIKINGS??? Or something like this?! Deciding where to Attack on what Front and what territory to defend, etc. IDK...

Anyways in the ROMAN scenario ALL Players LOSE if the VIKINGS invade ROME... But each player is secretly "fighting" (in actuality and figuratively) to become the NEXT "Emperor" of Rome... And there can only be ONE!

Again just speculation... If you provide more details, well then I can maybe help to HONE IN on what IS or IS NOT appropriate for your design!

If you provide more feedback ... That will be great since I can see IF there are any OTHER ways to improve your game. The "Card Draft" can also be implemented in a "Co-opetive" game too... Just in case you were wondering...

No worries... Ideas are just ideas, it's hard to find the right answers when you don't have many of the pieces of the puzzle.

Cheers mate!

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Wed, 05/22/2024 - 10:34
#8
larienna
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I am a lot into coop design

I am a lot into coop design and play since I aim at solo game design.

Take a look at robinson crusoe, they pushed it a bit further by making 2 resolutions per card. Certain events triggers than can show up later, or you need to assign actions to them to prevent them from happening.

The Lovecraftian games from Fantasy flight games (Arkham files series) has many event cards that you can get inspiration. Look for Arkham horror 2nd edition, Elder sign, Eldritch horror, etc. (There are many more, but those are the games I know) There is a wiki with many of the content available online.

It's not just for thematic ideas, but more to see how the possibility space is explored. Elder sign, had some mythos events in their expansion where you had a choice. Sometimes it's conditional events.

About the positive and negative events, to keep the game difficulty consistent, you should try to make every card have a similar impact on the game. Else the game could be too easy or too hard depending on the draw.

Eldritch Horror balance it by having different color set and selecting a number of cards from each. Else each even could have a positive and negative effect. Or you could draw from 2 different decks, one of positive opportunities, and another deck of unfortunate events.

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