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Familiar with Pokemon TCG

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questccg
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Over the last WEEK or so, I have been buying Pokemon Cards (TCG) and playing on Pokemon Online for FREE. What this has done is help me learn a little about the game and how to play with PHYSICAL cards.

Granted the ONLINE game is NOT fair. I just played with a player who had "220 HP for a BASIC Pokemon"??? WTF?! I don't even have a Stage 2 Pokemon with over 150 HP and in the Deck I was playing, probably had neither (150 HP nor Basic Pokemon with over 100 HP)...

Anyhow the learning was for my Cousin's Children (One just turned 5 and the other is going to 3 soon...)

I might not be able to give them SUPER Pokemons, but I just might be able to give them two (2) Decks which can play VERSUS each other. I doubt they will be very competitive cards (for playing against other players)... I'm not that familiar with all the Pokemon cards out-there!

It's been FUN trying to make some decks for the kids. I'll try to buy another starter pack!

Note #1: You can get a Pokemon V Picachu for $1.00 USD + shipping. I'm going to visit my local game shop to see IF they have any for sale directly there...

But yeah PLAYING "V" or "EX" Pokemons compared to Basic Pokemons is really NOT fair TBH!

X3M
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https://www.youtube.com/watch

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDqDvvJyY2w

Despite a player having to charge up their active pokemon. Some are really easy to charge up.
Although, I don't know the game. So I can't say for sure how imbalanced the game can be.

It offers more balance than the synergy that can happen in MtG imho.

That said, I wonder how balanced or imbalanced you would think my game would be at first glance :D

questccg
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I already explained the imbalance... Sheesh!

X3M wrote:
Although, I don't know the game. So I can't say for sure how imbalanced the game can be.

And I guess you don't know how to read either???

Because I explained that some online players have Pokemon V or EX Basic Pokemons and those Pokemon have OVER 200 HP compare to REAL Basic Pokemons which have like 50 HP.

Even if my Pokemons do 20 HP Damage. That's 10 TURNS to beat them. And then they probably have annoying Bench Pokemons which can HEAL 20 HP per turn and you do damage and then they HEAL IT! And be impossible to defeat...

So UNBALANCED and UNFAIR. Plus their darn Pokemons have abilities that force you to discard two (2) cards from your Deck ... Making winning by running out of cards possible.

Anyhow... It's not at all fair that they match me up with people with such super Deck-Out Players who have Basic Pokemon STRONGER than my Stage 2 Evolution Pokemon! Imagine that: Basic Pokemon that have MORE HP than ... Wait for it... a STAGE TWO (2) Evolved Pokemon! Not a Stage 1 but a Stage 2!

Those SUPER Pokemons are just not fair to play against...!

X3M
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As said before

I don't know the game that well yet.

If you are saying the game is imbalanced. Because the online version (that is played like how it is supposed to be) has these super cards breaking the game.
Then yeah, it is imbalanced.

But as said before, I don't know the game that well. Maybe it has a strategy for dealing with those stronger cards with the weaker cards. A strategy that you have yet to discover.

Then again. The game is a Trading and Collectible card game. Just like MtG. Obviously some cards are going to be stronger. Especially in expansion sets.

That is also the reason why I always try to balance games with a formula.
So new expensions would only add more choices and strategy. But each new element would always have weak points hidden in the older packs.

While I have given up on MtG. Maybe Pokemon does have these hidden strategies.

questccg
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Let me clarify a bit...

First you should know that there are 3 Levels (called "Stages") of EVOLUTION. They are: Basic, Stage 1 and Stage 2. Most Pokemon have a Stage 1 and fewer have a Stage 2. Because that is one of the FEATURES of Pokemon TCG:

Quote:
You can LEVEL UP a Pokemon if the lower Level or Stage is on the Bench or Active Pokemon.

So you go about COLLECTING cards that go from Basic to Stage 1 and some Stage 2.

The whole POINT of this is to get BAD-ASS Pokemons (Basic to Stage 2) to defeat your opponent. Pokemon is similar to a game of "King of the Mountain". Why? How? Well once you get a super Bad-Ass Pokemon as being the Active Pokemon, you can rip through your opponent's cards (Both Active and Benched Pokemons).

Sure you can lose 3-Pokemons to 1-Pokemon and be behind in a game that is hard to reverse the tide of battles and outcomes.

FAIR ENOUGH: YOU NOW KNOW ABOUT EVOLUTION.

But here's something you should KNOW: There are even MORE Bad-Ass Pokemons which are Pokemon EX, GX or V (depending on the card set).

These Badder-Ass Pokemon are USUALLY "Basic" (Level 1) so you can PLAY them RIGHT AWAY without needing to WAIT for the right cards to EVOLVE from Level 1 to Level 3. PLUS they are even MORE unbalanced because they have Hit Points (HPs) greater that ALL Stage 2 Pokemons.

So WHY(?) did they do this??? I guess because people didn't want to play a FAIR game... They want all kinds of SUPER Pokemons to break all the rules of the STANDARD Pokemons and the EVOLUTION MECHANIC.

They really make most deck appear like PURE CR@P. If you have a EX, GX or V Pokemon for your deck (and sometimes MORE THAN ONE) ... You've got like a 3-to-1 advantage over your opponent. PLUS these EX, GX and V Pokemons USUALLY have MORE HPs that you Stage 2 Pokemons!

So not only do you NOT NEED to WAIT to EVOLVE, they are STRONGER (in HP) and usually have BETTER abilities/attacks.

The decks that I'm building for the Kids will stack-up against EACH OTHER. But not in the real-world where people are collecting and playing EX, GX and V Pokemons...

Here's an example:

Pikachu Normal Pikachu V

If you CANNOT see the UNBALANCE with your own eyes... And this is NOT the most powerful EX, GX or V Pokemon. This is because most people KNOW Pikachu from the cartoons and commercials. He is a very endearing character in the shows and in marketing too.

And 30 Damage vs. 200 Damage is a BIG DEAL. But where it is more UNFAIR is 60 HP vs. 190 HP... Granted this Pikachu V is pretty good to COUNTER other EX, GX and V Pokemons because he can deal 200 DAMAGE in one turn... Granted he loses all his ENERGY and to retreat costs 1 Energy (actually both versions require 1 Energy to retreat)...

But this should show you how just with Pikachu this is a TOTALLY UNFAIR card to play against most players. If you have 20 Lightning Energy that means you can defeat "6" Pokemons and win by PRIZE COLLECTION. You'd have 2 Energy left over too!

AND remember BOTH are BASIC!!!

X3M
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I wonder why

Why do they even allow those 2 cards to be in the same game like that in the first place?

It would have made more sense if the cards where used in separate games.

The difference is huge!
When I compare a 3/3 from red to a 3/3 from green in MtG. The difference is a cost of 3 or 4.

But both pikachu's cost 1. Yet the difference is more than a factor of 2.

I think the reason is money. Somehow having a game that imbalanced makes them more profit?

questccg
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I also think it's a question of "excitement" too!

I mean, if you PLAY a SUPER Powerful Pokemon... You are going to FEEL "invicible"! And for the kids playing the game... That's exactly what it is: an Adrenaline Rush... Like I said, Pikachu is 3x the strength of the standard Level 1 Pokemon (60 x 3 = 180 and the "V" version is 190 HP). So it's more of a factor of "3"!

Like I said, the kids can't appreciate a hard fought battle. Instead they look for Timmy cards (like in Magic) that do a shitload of Damage and help the player win the game.

Profit is another reason... To chase these cards is DIFFICULT. I bought the Pikachu for $2.50 USD! So it's still relatively AFFORDABLE. I also pick-up two (2) addition "V" characters (one for each Deck I am building).

For some excitement I guess... The kids are going to LOVE their Decks (hopefully). I've like invested over $100 ... But it's for 2 kids and it's for Christmas... $50 each is not unreasonable!

But yeah NOW you SEE how UNFAIR the game really is...

X3M
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What happens when...?

You create 2 mirror decks?
I did this for MtG. And it was fun!
Simply have both players have the exact same deck.

If one is lucky at the beginning. Can the other one come back?

***

You don't allow the special versions in the game to begin with?

Or only the same versions?

***

This might sound strange. But I don't have any imbalance of this kind in my games.
Even the fodder vs tanks has been dealth with. One way or another.
Nor do I allow any "stronger" version of an units without a proper weight penalty.

Stronger version?
XP or resources.
Specialized version?
XP or resources or somewhere a new weakness.

Only the map has some influence on certain attributes. These often have a cheaper (thus stronger) version for when the map is barren and open.

Of course, if the map is very closed. The certain attributes will actually make the unit much more a better option than the cheaper version.

questccg
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Join 'em I guess...

X3M wrote:
This might sound strange. But I don't have any imbalance of this kind in my games...

No actually that sounds SMART! Do you know how many Rules Magic sets up ONLY to have one or two cards that break each one of the rules in some way. I was reading some kind of thread somewhere and I think it may have been in Mark Rosewater's podcasts as he drives 60 minutes from home to the office ...

Anyhow, in one of the podcasts (I believe), he says that the reason they create rules is so that there can be general guidelines of what is and what is NOT acceptable in various Magic "Formats". But then goes on to say that some "Formats" have less rules or have cards that BREAK those rules because it makes those "Formats" more exciting.

And I think that's what people were thinking about the Pokemon V cards.

Give something the players can MONOPOLIZE and ALWAYS win the game with. Of course it's broken... But you know what they say right??? If you can't beat them... Join them. Which means everyone will be getting into the Pokemon V mindset... Heck I even did it with ALL THREE (3) of my Apprentice Decks!

So now everyone has ONE "V" card and it it comes out early, you are lucky... You will probably WIN the game. And if you are UNLUCKY ... You will probably LOSE the game.

It's REALLY STUPID ... DUMB-ED DOWN! But it is what it is...!

X3M
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Game: pick the blue card

Players pick in turn from a deck of cards.
The player that picks the blue card wins.

questccg
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Yup you understood...

There are GAMES and then there are GAMES! Right you are correct, it eventually just boils down to WHO get's the Pokemon V in is HAND first who will eventually score 2 to 3 kills before being discarded (maybe even more) at 30 Damage per turn, you need 7 turns. The opponent only needs 6 turn to win!

So yup... You understood.

Small other comment... Like if this was a "Stage 2" Pokemon that I had to evolve twice in a game... Well maybe that makes sense having around 200 HP. But the idea is the opponent also would have some "Stage 1" and "Stage 2" Pokemons to counter ... since evolution comes over time.

But this sh!t of "Basic" SUPER-POWERFUL Pokemons just breaks the game totally.

I did it for the kids and their enjoyment... I'm sure they will love their ultra strong Pokemon and if they ever learn to play properly, those cards will maybe be removed from their Decks... TBH.

Note #1: And I'm not saying there are ways to mitigate these ultra strong Pokemons... You could do a REVERT to Bench and defeat one of the opponent's weaker Pokemons... And score 1 Point. But the minute you kill that Pokemon and earn a Prize Card, you can bet the opponent will put up the SAME Pokemon and you have to deal with it again.

200 Damage is a LOT. And if it takes like 3 turns to charge Pikachu... You have TIME to do other things too. It's a bit of a SLOW BURN. But it's effective if you do NOTHING to counter this Pokemon.

So send him back to the Bench, force him to waste Energy (discard an Energy card from the attacking Pokemon) and slow him ultimately a BIT DOWN. But still...

See that kind of card in action above!

questccg
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OMG is this game NOT FAIR!

I just decided to play a Versus Battle for the FUN of it... And whoa... I got to do NOTHING. The opponent kept getting his turn over and over again for 5 minutes I watched him keep playing cards continuously and of course he killed my ONLY Basic Pokemon and with nothing on the Bench, I LOST (nah, yeah... BIG Surprise! NOT...)

Some kind of weirdo deck which controls all the trainer cards to get back cards in the discard pile and to continuously play their turn...

Definitely NOT FAIR either! Pokemon is a COOL little game... But some Deck Strategies are OVER THE TOP...

Ah, sigh.

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