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Magic the Gathering: Arena

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Sat, 01/28/2023 - 20:01
questccg
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Ok so while I am still NEW to MtG: Arena I (MagicA), I've been playing for a few days... TBH it's really NOT what I thought the experience would be. I decided to play the Tutorial and NEEDED HELP to defeat "Nick Bolas" because I could not AND STILL NOT understand how waiting for the NEXT card to be the RIGHT ONE is an actual reality to the game.

What do I mean?

Well simply put MagicA TELLS you in the Tutorial what you should do. Which is OKAY because honestly NEW Players don't know NOTHING about the game or have only heard of MtG and have some vague notion about HOW to play.

So the CARDS you GET are NOT RANDOM (from your Deck). They are SPECIFICALLY drawn in a certain order to help play through the PLOT of the Tutorial.

More or less the SAME, I watched a YouTube Video on how to BEAT "Nick Bolas" and the cards were pretty similar and where I was at and needed HELP, etc. was all VERY similar. Not 100% identical... But VERY similar. In fact the only difference between me and the YouTube video was "4 Points" that MY "Nick Bolas" had extra, so instead of "8" (in the YouTube video), mine had "12".'

Never the less, I had "3" cards with enough firepower to defeat him on the NEXT TURN.

So after doing this, I was rewarded with five (5) Decks: one of each color.

Now again MagicA is NOT like MtG. Again you have to follow the scenarios with again a SIMILAR "design". Like if you play "Black", you face-off versus "Green" FIRST and are rewarded by REMOVING "2" cards from your "Black Deck" and replacing them with IMPROVED cards.

So again it's MORE or less the SAME AGAIN.

You get cards that suit the match-up and again, I'm not convinced that it is ENTIRELY RANDOM... Because the opponent plays more-or-less the SAME strategy. I'm playing "Black vs. Blue" and Blue is pumping out a bunch of weak Flying creatures that I have a HARD time to Block or get rid of...

These "match-ups" (like I said) reward you with IMPROVEMENTS to your existing Deck (In my case, I was playing the "Black" Deck) and am 4/5 way to completing the "Black" "match-ups"... But I've lost like two (2) Matches already ... And MagicA tells you a "HINT" on how to WIN the battle after a loss.

So HOW can they tells you HOW to WIN, if the strategy in both Decks is the SAME and will play out with hardly any randomness???

I think it's FUN but annoying that you need to REPLAY a "match-up" if you LOSE.

And some "match-ups" are real "Aggro" Battles. Like "Black" vs. "Red"... I had to be SUPER AGGRESSIVE to WIN that "match-up". I guess this is their way to TEACH the Decks and Styles all the while keep players INTERESTED.

I'll be SUPER HONEST and say that MagicA is not for me.

But there is a reason that I am learning and it's to get a better grasp on HOW MtG is played not MagicA. Will MagicA live up to these expectations??? IDK. All I know is that I'm going to TRY to complete all 5/5 "Black" "match-ups" and see where that leads me.

If the "match-ups" are NOT RANDOM (and I firmly believe that they are NOT!) well then they suit their NATURE in "teaching" the various playstyles all the while in some kind of "Campaign"-related looking feel of a game.

After I LEARN what I need to... Will I continue to play MagicA??? The answer to that question is PROBABLY a "NO"! In any event... My motivation is my OWN and has it's reasons. But I'm not going to be a huge FAN of MagicA because my real interest is learning more about MtG!

Cheers.

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Sat, 01/28/2023 - 20:38
#1
questccg
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More observations while PLAYING MagicA

Well it definitely SEEMS like the cards you start in-hand are "restricted" to the cards that the "match-up" wants you to use. I had THREE (3) "Raise Dead" cards (again "Black") and I've NEVER drawn in like 6 matches one of these cards...

Meanwhile when I REPLAY the "match-up" I seem to be using the SAME cards OVER and OVER again... Although I'll concede that knowing WHAT CARDS THE OPPONENT WILL PLAY... Does make the "match-up" easier because I can SAVE a "Destroy Target Creature" card that I got on Turn #2 ... For later when Jace plays his 5/5 Creature... So it DOES get easier and YES, they can FIX the "match-up" by giving you the fact that the opponent will ALMOST do the SAME thing each time you play.

So much for the RANDOMNESS and the OTHER cards that I could use in my Deck (like the "Raise Dead" cards (for example).

IDK how I feel playing a GAME where the outcomes of "match-ups" are PRE-DETERMINED by the fact that the game RESTRICTS which cards you will get!

Hmm... Very ... Umm... IDK TBH!!!

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Sat, 01/28/2023 - 21:02
#2
X3M
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Just like Minecraft

MtG isn't what it used to be.

At least, that is how I experienced it.

I always loved playing with Green.
Red was fun.
White was...boring but doable.
Black was...not what I expected to be honest.
And I absolutely hated Blue.

My buddy went...blue. Doesn't matter, I never lost to him.

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Sat, 01/28/2023 - 21:54
#3
questccg
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Well I BEAT the BOT rather easily

I made a "custom" Deck (from the cards that I had... I wanted to IMPROVE the Deck to how "I" like it...) and tested it against the BOT and it said: "Wow, those are some powerful cards!" And I creamed it with Lifelink, I had like "21 HP" vs. "-14 HP" in the end.

So the experience is "Not too bad"!

But I tried a Challenge VS. a "Random" Player... Got my @ss wiped! I didn't even stand a CHANCE with the nice Deck that I had made and wanted to TEST!

X3M wrote:
MtG isn't what it used to be.

Well for a FREE To PLAY game it's not bad. I can continue to learn more about the COLORS for sure, I've ONLY played "Black" 5/5 ...

X3M wrote:
I always loved playing with Green.

Haven't gotten around to playing the other colors (Green, Red, White and Blue). I've ONLY played "Black"... It's got some pretty neat tricks on HOW to BUFF a 1/1 to a 7/7 (and above) due to +1/+1 per opposing creature in play goes to the Graveyard.

X3M wrote:
Red was fun.

Red is VERY "Fast-paced"... It's a Aggro color (much like Green) but it has a bunch of Instants like "Lightning Bolt" or "Shock" which speed-up the game quite a bit (due to Direct Damage). So far the STARTED DECKS are all MONO-colored (so only one color).

X3M wrote:
White was...boring but doable.

Well with "Lifelink" as an Enchantment, I can easily attack my opponent and GAIN LIFE while doing so! Haha. So yeah it's in the SPIRIT of White ... without all the smaller creatures that you have to deal with (with White).

X3M wrote:
Black was...not what I expected to be honest.

I've played more "Black" than any other color... Although the TUTORIAL was geared for "White" (at least in my case). I like that when I deal Damage, my Enchanted Creature gains +1/+1 (permanent). Plus there are some pretty strong 7/7 Flying Demons (Which has Trample too). Like I said, I'm not PRO... I'm still learning.

The problem with all these games is that either there is a REAL GRIND. And that means playing all those "color match-ups" to unlock "more play-modes" and improve your Decks with BETTER cards (at least for the Starter Decks).

X3M wrote:
And I absolutely hated Blue. My buddy went...blue. Doesn't matter, I never lost to him.

I had some trouble playing "Black" vs. "Blue". I lost two (2) matches until I finally overcame the "Blue" Deck. What I hated is that when I had a super-buffed card like a 5/5 (from a 1/1), "Blue" would simply force it back into my HAND and it would become a 1/1 again... Frigg... That would hurt!

From what I've read about the MtG Color-Pie, most players land up building a "Blue/Red" Deck which is like a Aggro/Control Deck to counter more of the Decks of most players (that's what I read anyhow...)

Anyhow ... There is SO MUCH OPTIONS in MagicA ... I'm not sure what is FREE, HUGE GRIND or PAY! I'm a bit lost now that I've "unlocked" some more player options... They keep it very limited as you play the Tutorial... There are ONLY five (5) Matches... And you need to beat all five (5) to get INTO the game. Then you're forced to play the "color match-ups" until you WIN a single color (5 more match-ups).

And then that "unlocks" a TON of sh!t!!! OMG... So much for progression and Alchemy, Bots, PvP, etc. I don't even know what Alchemy IS???!!!

Anyhow ... NOW there is a HUGE Learning curve. What was SIMPLE has turned out to be majorly COMPLEX! It's FUN TBH... But I'm not sure how long I will be MOTIVATED TO GRIND. Maybe one more color... Maybe I'll TRY "GREEN"!!! I'll let you know how that works out.

Cheers!

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Sat, 01/28/2023 - 23:42
#4
questccg
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I decide to PLAY White...

OMG "Green" is so tough to beat with 10/10 Creatures, it ain't fair AT ALL! And while I do have some Spells to counter those 10/10 Creatures, again because it's the "match-ups" with me Playing against ALL Four (4) other Colors (one match-up at a time), "White vs. Green" seems impossible. Although they do explain HOW to counter some of the cards and "Trick" likes 1/6 Trample Creature... I need to play again to understand what it is they are TELLING me.

But definitely "Green" is pretty POWERFUL!

Again I'm playing "White" this time around... And a Instant like "Pacifism" ... You can Neutralize those 10/10 in the "match-ups". But I don't see much of a SOLUTION to this in Standard Play!

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Sun, 01/29/2023 - 01:25
#5
larienna
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A few years ago, I played MTG

A few years ago, I played MTG on Xbox, besides the tutorial, the game looked like it was a randomized game. It would make no sense that all battles are puzzles.

As for waiting for the card to win. This is one of the dominant bug in MTG that nobody believes me.

The best digital MTG game I played so far is the first PC game that was released in 1997. You can get it as abandonware. It has an adventure solo mode that is super fun. I strongly recommend it. They never made any other adventure mode in their other digital implementations.

https://www.abandonwaredos.com/abandonware-game.php?abandonware=Magic%3A...

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Sun, 01/29/2023 - 01:56
#6
questccg
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MagicA has come a LONG way from 1997

larienna wrote:
A few years ago, I played MTG on Xbox, besides the tutorial, the game looked like it was a randomized game. It would make no sense that all battles are puzzles.

Well in MagicA, I would agree that the Battles are Puzzles. And these Puzzles are there to LEARN more about the various "mechanics" used in the game. But they are NOT RANDOM. Instead I would say that the "match-ups" playing you versus the Computer AI are nearly ALWAYS the same. Otherwise how else could they be like: "Do 'this' NEXT time around..."

And believe me when you LEARN some of the Tricks, you understand more about some of what adds complication to MtG.

I'm not saying MagicA is BAD. On the contrary, I just bought my FIRST booster pack and got a bunch of cards. But BUYING boosters with NO AIM is a bit... Well ... Pointless!

larienna wrote:
As for waiting for the card to win. This is one of the dominant bug in MTG that nobody believes me.

Yeah it's true... If your "dominant" strategy does NOT work... You will probably lose the game. I just finished playing "White" and unlocked some more Gold (which is in-game experience, while crystals are in-game currency) and the compute AI told me I should buy a Booster Pack (which I did).

larienna wrote:
The best digital MTG game I played so far is the first PC game that was released in 1997. You can get it as abandonware. It has an adventure solo mode that is super fun. I strongly recommend it. They never made any other adventure mode in their other digital implementations.

https://www.abandonwaredos.com/abandonware-game.php?abandonware=Magic%3A+The+Gathering&gid=1967

Indeed... I'm going to stick with MagicA ATM. I'm learning more about MONO-Decks which is fine for now... Once I complete ALL the "match-ups", we'll see from there on what I will want to do. In addition, what are the options available to play.

ATM I'm not sure. It's not like I can take a PHYSICAL Deck and Import the cards and say "Voila" I have my Red, Burn/Aggro Deck! Hahaha.

So we'll see... I don't mind grinding three (3) more colors. Cheers!

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Sun, 01/29/2023 - 08:45
#7
X3M
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larienna wrote: As for

larienna wrote:

As for waiting for the card to win. This is one of the dominant bug in MTG that nobody believes me.

I believe you.
It is always somewhere in the deck... waiting to be pulled out.

Their arguments. Let me guess...
There are cards that allow you to search your deck, pick the card you need and shuffle it again. Doubling the chances on getting that particular card.
Of course, burning your deck is also an option. There are cards that allow you to pick more cards.

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Sun, 01/29/2023 - 08:51
#8
X3M
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Puzzle

I like to believe that MtG is like a chess game. But you still need to build up your chess pieces.
You have not much of a say in what pieces come first.
And there is much more variation.
The combination of pieces creates often synergy. Just like how 2 castles on an empty chess board can force a king into a corner. Certain cards can make other cards much more powerfull.

I always liked my combination of the enchantress with molten skin, lure and 4x +X/+X cards on her. When having like 15 forests on the table. You can tell, the whole enemy army would be gone in a second. And I wouldn't even need to sacrifice my lady. It sometimes even happened that she would have 80/80. And 5 lifes in total.
It was a very OP move on beginners (and people who didn't want to learn)

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Sun, 01/29/2023 - 19:46
#9
questccg
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Hmm... Not sure about that!?

X3M wrote:
I like to believe that MtG is like a chess game. But you still need to build up your chess pieces.

I disagree with this statement. Why? Because MtG is firstly a Card Game and so there is high randomness and the number of permutations one can get from drawing cards from a Deck is VERY HIGH. So there is a randomness factor to MtG. In Chess there is NO RANDOMNESS, it is purely determinism.

Furthermore, Chess pieces "move" and attack in pre-defined ways.

MtG has no movement. There is only an Area of Play. So SPATIAL aspect of Chess means that Chess is very different, again in another way, from MtG.

The Strategy employed in Chess has something to do with memory or being moves ahead of the current turn. Again with PERFECT INFORMATION (you see all the pieces on the board and you know how all of them move/attack) in Chess this allows a player to pre-think the opponent's move and determine the BEST possible choice of move (or attack) on any given turn.

MtG does NOT have all the information:

  1. You don't know what cards are in your opponent's Deck (those that have NOT been played).

  2. You don't know what cards are in your opponent's Hand either.

What you do know is what is in Play ONLY. This means that there is still a LOT of HIDDEN INFORMATION in MtG.

For those main reasons MtG is NOTHING like Chess. I would rather say that a GAME like "Crystal Heroes" (CH) is MORE Deterministic than MtG because the Method or Attack Pattern explicitly describes how a Game Tile MAY "Attack". And the game has a dominant Area Control Mechanic much like Chess (and until someone decides to take a piece and then back-and-forth players remove pieces from the area of play). CH is exactly the same from that perspective.

One source of inspiration for "Crystal Heroes" (CH) WAS in FACT CHESS! Because each Game Tile has a "pattern" for conquering opposing Game Tiles. Where it differs is because each Game Tile has it's OWN set of STATS... Which then makes a bit more RPG-ish (like those D&D-like games).

Furthermore, the Area of Play is SIMILAR to Chess in that for 2-Players the square area is 5 x 5 Game Tiles and for 4-Players the square area is 7 x 7 Game Tiles. Something SIMILAR to Chess which is a square area of 8 x 8 ...

Again where it differs, is that Chess pieces move around the board according to each specific piece's movement/attack. In CH, pieces move around freely but are restricted to 5 Action points for moving, looting, banishing, warping, scrying, and upgrading any given Game Tile. So while there is movement, it is radically DIFFERENT than Chess!

If you were postulating that the DEPTH of Strategy is similar in MtG to Chess, well that too is debatable.

Why? Because like @larienna said, most players are WAITING for one (1) card to win the game. Chess cannot be one by one move alone. Chess is a series of consecutive moves/attacks which is 100% deterministic with Perfect Information.

The nature of Chess is so different from MtG that you can't compare both because in all honesty they are very DIFFERENT games TBH.

So what can you say about MtG??? I would say that the game is RICH in LORE and has five (5) different PLAYSTYLES. Blending some of those playstyles creates a sort of "strategy" that a player could employ to win.

But I would never say that MtG is "like Chess"... As I have explained how those two (2) games (Chess and MtG) are totally different and completely unrelated.

Also in MtG there is the RISK of Attacking... Many players HOLD OFF an Attack and pass when playing just because they know that their cards in play will get annihilated and therefore WAIT until THAT "special" card is drawn... Like "Force all you opponent's creatures to be TAPPED". And all of a sudden you can deal 10+ Direct Damage to defeat the opponent.

Like I said, in all HONESTY, MtG and Chess are two very DIFFERENT games in how you play and the strategy involved. I meant no disrespect to either of your views, I'm just explaining that in my perspective, MtG is NOT Chess and is far from it... From determinism to randomness and from perfect information to partial information (with a lot of hidden information).

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Sun, 01/29/2023 - 21:17
#10
questccg
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But I agree 100% with @Ramon...

MagicA "match-ups" are Puzzles. It's like RANDOM(10) with a Seed. If you USE the EXACT SAME "Seed", then the random ten (10) numbers will all be IDENTICAL to any attempt to do RANDOM(10) with the same Seed. I'll give an example:

Quote:
Example: If you do RANDOM(5) with a Seed 1024, you'll get the following sequence of (fictional) numbers: 3, 201, 54, 109, 28.

If you re-initialize the RANDOM(5) with the SAME Seed 1024, when you ask for a sequence of (again fictional) numbers, you would get: 3, 201, 54, 109, 28.

You get the EXACT SAME NUMBERS. If you want TRULY RANDOM numbers, you need to RANDOMIZE the Seed TOO! Otherwise the SEQUENCE (even if it is 100 numbers) will be IDENTICAL when using the SAME Seed.

So I guess this is HOW MagicA uses RANDOMIZATION SEEDS to ensure that games playout to the "more-or-less" same results (in card drawing and flow). If you play the Tutorial (5 matches) in MagicA ... You'll see that the CARDS played are ALMOST IDENTICAL, leading me to believe that there is no real RANDOMNESS. By DESIGN, they want the games to be nearly identical so that whatever lesson they are trying to TEACH is understood given a player losing to the AI opponent.

That in my book qualifies to a Puzzle. And so with respect to that conclusion, I very much AGREE... MagicA "Tutorial" and "match-ups" are indeed Puzzles...

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Sun, 01/29/2023 - 23:56
#11
X3M
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I think there is the fact of

I think there is the fact of the same deck.
This deck is shuffled.
You can't expect them to have random cards.
There are always (40?) 60 cards present.

Also, waiting for 1 card is a bad deck. Good players often have synergy buildups.
What I mean is that you play a card in order to defend. Then you build up, on this card. Some cards help, others are on their own. But the army grows.

I too had that ONE card, in my deck. But I made my deck such, that any other card could mimic the ONE and win me some terrain. If not, the game.

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Mon, 01/30/2023 - 00:01
#12
larienna
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We are game designers here,

We are game designers here, so I should not offend any players. Or at least, we accept criticism ... right!

The game of MTG is deck building. That is where is all the game and the strategy is located. Playing the game has very little meaningful decisions. I strongly suspect that the stacking of the cards determine who wins the game, since there is not that many different things you can do. This is why chickens can play MTG in south park. There is just no strategy to play the game, design a deck and let the computer play it for you.

On the other hand, Duel Masters, another WOTC game had way more strategy since all cards could be played as either a land or a spell/monster. That implies more choices about which card to sacrifice to pump mana. 2 players with the same stack of cards would not sacrifice and play the same cards.

I wonder if that old MTG video game runs on linux with Wine. Even if I hate MTG, I think I am willing to close my eyes on it's flaws to play that adventure game again.

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Mon, 01/30/2023 - 23:27
#13
questccg
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OMG they have "Transformer" SLEEVES on MagicA!!!

They are SOOOOoooo COOOoool! The even TRANSFORM and make that SOUND from the 80s of when they TRANSFORM. F-ck me! I've got like 12 hours to decide if I want to spend $14.99 for enough Crystals to BUY those HOT sleeves.

I guess I'm only playing to learn more... So F-ck it... No way.

But they are so very cool... TBH!

Update: I'm such a SUCKER! For $20 bucks I got the Transformer Card Sleeves... Plus I had some Crystals left-over to buy a BETTER Avatar too. All purely aesthetic purchases... But why not! I've got so many options for the Transformer Sleeves... There are ten (10) DIFFERENT ones. For now, I set mine to be Optimus Prime. He holds a special place in my Youth. And a whole story of survival because of him. So goes life... With only "12 hours" before they are GONE...

Had to pick-up those card sleeves. They are special to me and have a significant role in my childhood. Besides it was only $20 bucks with the exchange... I know they are pointless. But I'm learning more and more about MtG through MagicA ... I may play for a few months in order to figure out everything that I HAVE (in terms of Decks) once they are all Beefed-up!

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Tue, 01/31/2023 - 06:45
#14
larienna
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I gave a try again the

I gave a try again the abandonware I listed above. It almost worked in wine. The program sometimes get jammed in duels, There are some buttons I cannot click which prevents battle from progressing.

But the biggest improvement is that there is now way more cards than the original. I have my old deck, and from what I remember, there was approximately 900 cards in the game, and many cards where not available (ex: legends with gold cards). Now, there would be something like 1600+ cards and the latest revision would be 4th edition.

So I think the community did some work there to upgrade the game. Not sure how exactly, unless the source code was released.

If you happen to play the game, tell me if the game jams on your side too. Maybe it's not Wine's fault.

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Tue, 01/31/2023 - 21:36
#15
questccg
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Hmm... They weren't kidding!

Those "Transformer" Card Sleeves are GONE! They said "12 hours" left last night and well you've figured it... They're no longer for SALE.

@larienna: if you enjoy playing MtG, you should give MtG: Arena a try. I know you like the "Campaign-Style" 1990-ish abandonware, but Arena for playing Magic is not too bad.

Granted there is a LOT going on. Like figuring out what to BUY (like my "Transformer" Card Sleeves) and maybe you don't want to spend any money from your hard earned income (which is 100% understandable). But dropping $20 CAD on a game when it's given you HOURS of enjoyment (or pleasure learning - in my case), is completely acceptable too.

I looked at the description and it's too "technical" to install. It's very old and although I've played Abandonware Games before, most like Ultima 5 were pretty easy to install.

Anyhow ... I don't think I'll be installing that software TBH. If I feel an itch to play a Magic game, I'll try MagicA and play one of the "match-ups" and see if I can beat a level or two. Hehehe...

Nothing more than that. Could be when I am bored too... Or have a bit of a window of free time (like 30 minutes here or there).

In any event, enjoy your time play either Magic game! Cheers.

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Wed, 02/01/2023 - 19:47
#16
questccg
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I HATE Green ... It so freaken hard playing with!

X3M wrote:
I always loved playing with Green.

I had a tough time Beating Red and Blue... But I did it. Now it's freaken IMPOSSIBLE to beat Black! IDK how you can LIKE "Green". It has a lot of STRONG cards but take forever to get into play. By that time my Black opponent has the time to suck me dry and defeat my Planeswalker. If I BLOCK, the Black player gets stronger (Vampirism — or that's what I call it...)

And I can't do anything to STOP the opponent from getting STRONGER each and every passing turn.

Anyhow I will try again tonight. But TBH it's freaken HARD to beat BLACK when you are GREEN (and your deck is not "tricked-out" with all kinds of fancy cards).

So difficult... Arghhh...

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Wed, 02/01/2023 - 21:18
#17
questccg
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Learning as I play ... But I want to have another look ...

larienna wrote:
The game of MTG is deck building. That is where is all the game and the strategy is located. Playing the game has very little meaningful decisions. I strongly suspect that the stacking of the cards determine who wins the game, since there is not that many different things you can do. This is why chickens can play MTG in south park. There is just no strategy to play the game, design a deck and let the computer play it for you...

Well ... Truth be told you are 90% correct. Although I played Black vs. Black and we pretty much had the SAME Deck... The way his cards were drawn were better than my own and so he pretty much BEAT me. This was not an AI Player but a Human Player that was chosen "at random".

So the order of what you DRAW ... Like I drew early a 7 Mana Cost card. It was pointless because ALL I could get is up to 6 Available Mana and never got the chance to use that "more powerful" card...

There is an element of CHANCE or DRAWING POORLY which can affect a game too.

Like if you "sorta" get Mana-Screwed (like in my case), this means that you might not get the result you had planned from your Deck (it's performance). So while I agree at 90%, there is still odds that the AI would lose to a bad draw.

What do I think about MagicA???

Well I'm learning more about MtG... Via MagicA. But I don't plan to spend any more monies on the game. Because quite frankly, I'm just trying to LEARN MtG a bit better for my own research purposes. I already have "2" Decks that I physically BOUGHT... I'm going to take a look at them TONIGHT. Just to see how much I've learned from buying them...

I'll post a reply later TONIGHT when I've had a chance to REVIEW those two (2) Deck. I may even understand how to IMPROVE the 2nd Deck because Deck #1 and Aggro Fire Deck is tricked out to the MAX! So I want to look at Deck #2 and see if I've learned anything RELEVANT.

Cheers and tell you all later my thoughts on Deck #2!

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Wed, 02/01/2023 - 22:55
#18
questccg
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Deck #1 looks SOLID

But Deck #2 is a White-Blue hybrid... I haven't played the Blue Deck yet... And so I'm not sure about the strategy of that Deck. I've got Blue and Red and I was thinking of doing Red NEXT... Leaving Blue for the END (As per @X3M's reasoning) and see what I think of "Blue".

I realize that there is definitely some OTHER "Cards" I can buy for Deck #2 just in terms of opening up the Land cards to some "Dual Lands" or "True Duals" and make this White-Blue deck a bit more "flexible".

Like I said, I need more "experience" with Blue to be able to see how to play this color more precisely.

It weird that "RED" seems to behave more like White nowadays. Creating all kinds of 1/1 Token Creatures and have a bunch of them to contend with. Much like I thought "White" used to be played... Things may have changed just a bit ONLINE.

IDK maybe this is a MagicA effect... Hmm... I wonder(?)

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Thu, 02/02/2023 - 11:18
#19
larienna
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If it's just for learning and

If it's just for learning and exploration, again I strongly suggest the abandonware above. I learned how to make strategy decks by playing this game. Originally, when I had real cards, I made a deck on the fly with unique cards using inspiration, intuition and theme. So no strategy at all. Playing the video game changed completely my point of view.

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Sun, 02/05/2023 - 19:42
#20
X3M
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Not sure if this is possible for you

You said that green is very hard for you. But you make the mistake to try to get powerful monsters out. You need a fodder build to begin with.

Here is my green deck to try out. One that is suitable for beginners, yet powerful.

You need 60 cards in total:
+ 1g -20 Forest; spam.
- 1g - 4 Creature, llanowar elves; if you manage to get one in round 1 (40% chance you have at least one), you could have 3 green mana in round 2.
- 2g1- 4 Creature, Verduran Enchantress; only has 2 defence. But can be upgraded to be offensive too. Either way, just start gathering cards from your pile once you play an enchantment.
- 1g2- 4 Enchantment, Overgrowth; double a forest. Altough, any land could turn into green mana this way.
- 1g1- 4 Enchantment, Fertile Ground; double a forest. Although, any land could start giving 1 green mana this way.
- 2g1- 4 Enchantment, Lure; if you attack with the creature that has this enchantment. All cards that can block it, will do so. Great to have the rest do a succesfull attack. Or to actually wipe out the whole field of the opponent.
- 1g2- 4 Enchantment, Molting Skin; saves your card. And we always played that any other enchantment also stayed on that card. Great if you combine it with Lure.
- 1g - 4 Enchantment, Spider Umbra; gives your creature +1/+1 and reach, so it can stop flying. Also can be sacrificed and your creature lives instead. Just like Molting Skin.
- 1g1- 4 Enchantment, Treetop Bracers; now your creature is "flying". Although, don't use it in combination with Lure, you can only use Lure in order to wipe out the table of your opponent. Unless you simply want to kill the lifepoints directly. Of course the +1/+1 also helps.
- 1g2- 4 Enchantment, Blanchwood Armor; here is your +X/+X per forest you own.
- 1g2- 4 Creature, Yavimaya Enchantress; Ugandan Knuckles knows da way to the Queen. I like the Matthew D. Wilson version the most. She has long ears and still her legs in that drawing. Anyway, this lady will get +1/+1 for each enchantment on the battlefield. Not sure if enemy enchantments count as well, we never played that way.

Other cards that might be of use, I had them as placeholder until a better version came around:
- 1g3- Patern of Rebirth; almost added this one to my deck. But Molting Skin saved my cards sufficiently.
- 1g - Enchantment, Web; simply stops flying. Better to use Spider Umbra instead. It has the same cost.

Anyway, you build up your ground. Eventually, you use the following combination:
Yavimaya Enchantress, with 1 to 4 Blanchwood Armor, 1 Lure, 1 Molting Skin and at least 1 Spider Umbra. Have fun!!!

This way, she has 3 lives and is the strongest creature. With only 3 forests present and you using 1 time blanchwood armor, the lady is a 10/10 creature at that point. Of which most, 6/6 is from herself.
You can max one of them out; 20 forests, 4 blanchwood armor, 1 Lure, 1 Molting Skin and 4 Spider Umbra. Making her a 98/98 creature. Only 12/12 is of herself here.
Of course, the enchantments Overgrowth and Fertile Ground, on my forests also added as +1/+1 per enchantment. They do not add to the Blanchwood Armor, for that you need real Forests.

I had only one of her. So, until she came along, I used Spiders as replacement. Simply for easy blocking. If you have 4, she is relatively cheap and easy to obtain in your hand.

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Sun, 02/05/2023 - 21:45
#21
questccg
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Wow ... That actually looks COOL!!!

But you have not played MagicA ... I'm pretty sure about that! See the only way to get CARDS is to BUY "Booster Packs"! There is another way that is FREE... but it's a bit "unpredictable". It's what MagicA calls "Wildcards". You earn these by completed "Challenges", participating in "Events", and it's a bit IF-FY TBH...

I've read in some BLOGs that the BEST way to BUILD a DECK is using these "wildcards". These "wildcards" come in four (4) rarities: common, uncommon, rare, and mythic. Nothing surprising there... Except that I think I already GOT 2 "mythic" wildcards.

The problem with MagicA ... Is that you have "Starter Decks" which are identical for ALL the players. If you want to spend $$$ ... Well you BUY "Booster Packs". There is no "aftermarket" and you can't buy "Singles". So if you want SPECIFIC cards the only way to do this is through "wildcards".

My guess is the GRIND of playing and earning goals grants to Gold which in turn allows you to buy "Booster Packs". Like I said, getting "wildcards" depends on events, challenges and victories/ranking in play. I haven't even "unlocked" Ranked Matches... I think you need to complete all 25 "Match-Ups" which are pre-defined Matches for each Color against each Color and a Bonus Game with a Random opponent.

So for me to do what you want, is ... well... HARD!

I can't buy the cards you want me to try ONLINE. Maybe I could buy a PHYSICAL Deck from "Singles" ... But I have no real use for such a Deck ... Because it's not really what I am aiming for. It's a MONO Deck... I'm working on a Poly-Format which has 3+ Colors per Deck. So 3/4/5 Colors. Therefore leaning about the colors and different "playstyles" is useful ... But I have no interest in building a Mono Deck to play... Because honestly, that's not what I want to do.

My goal with MagicA is learning how to PLAY "Magic". I'm familiar with a Black, White, Green Decks they have presented ... But there are so many other strategies going with all the different colors... That MagicA may only reveal SOME of these aspects or tactics.

The bottom line is that I want to complete Red and Blue ... And then take it from there. We'll see what I think about MagicA after the last two color "Match-ups" are done and that I've unlocked Ranked PvP.

But I see your deck is very interesting and powerful. For my Poly-Format it would be useless because it relies on strategy for ONE (1) Color: Green. That would never work (having only one color). I can't explain further because a lot of the work is being done behind the scenes ... And well it's a Work-In-Progress (WIP).

You may want to have "3" Deck Strategies rather than only "1" in most cases. That's all I can say for now. In any event, this Poly-Deck Format is very much being worked on and no doubt at some point I'm going to have to sit down and do some actual matches with the Format... But ATM we're not there just yet!

So more to come (at some point) and to some degree... Cheers!

Note #1: I agree that your Mono Deck is powerful. But I'm not particularly interested in Mono Decks TBH. I have other plans ...

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Mon, 02/06/2023 - 17:51
#22
questccg
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Your deck is WAY COOL ... But...

I cannot MAKE it in MagicA... Most of the cards are "unavailable". It's sad that a game like this is forced into DECKS that are standard and everyone is playing AROUND those decks.

I have: 26 Common, 28 Uncommon, 9 Rare, and 5 Mythic.

But even the Elves which I have CANNOT be played in "Standard"! Hah.

So while your deck is amazing ... It is not LEGAL and secondly, I cannot get most of the cards for the Deck. All those Enchantments are not available on MagicA.

While I COULD "Craft" a Deck... (Maybe) I search for many of your cards and I find them on Gatherer.Wizards.com (the official Database of MtG cards). They are NOT available in MagicA (Many are not...) So sad. I tried.

Because I think I have enough wildcards to BUILD a CUSTOM "Deck" using my Wildcards... I can only make ONE (1) Hehehe...

Cheers! (So sorry... Your deck seemed REAL COOL!)

To confirm: I tried to search for ALL your cards and ONLY found 2:

Blanchwood Armor (Surprising!)
Llanowar Elves

The REST is unavailable from MagicA (which sucks so BAD!)

Also if you PLAY "White" they have a card call "Pacifism" ... Which means any HIGH POWERED card cannot Attack or Block. This is retaliation for those HIGH powered Creature Cards.

In any event MagicA is ANNOYING. Not only do they BAN cards per rotation, they also don't have many of the MtG Cards that are available to purchase in Singles...

Ehh... What can I say!

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Mon, 02/06/2023 - 21:59
#23
Drion22
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Hey hey! Just wanted to pitch

Hey hey!

Just wanted to pitch in, even though I've moved away from magic now. Magic and Chess do get compared a lot because of their prevalence as "mental sports", and yeah, mechanically completely different beasts, mainly due to the randomized and hidden information inherent to most card games. I would argue that more competitive magic does require mental prowess comparable to chess, some of that is about knowing your matchups against the current most popular decks (in the meta), and knowing what cards they use. And even though the matchups are known, there are a lot of microdecisions and bluffing that needs to be done before someone can win. Figuring out if it's better to sacrifice a small creature to block some big damage or to attack back at your opponent next turn, if you should counterspell something small now or hold onto it in case they have something bigger later, attacking with a weaker creature to try bluffing that you have a combat trick (a way of buffing the creature). There are further points of decision making introduced by many more competitive cards, creatures and lands with many additional abilities, cards you can play from your hand in multiple ways, or cards that just have different effects based on the boardstate. This is the reason that some formats where the popular decks don't change much still (legacy or modern) enjoy a lot of repeated play and a large fanbase. But yeah, magic can definitely be just "play whatever card you have mana for" with many decks, which I mostly consider a feature at this point, because the decks can grow with the player's skill level. And yes, the game is absolutely plagued by its mana system, which simply results in you just automatically losing some games, because you drew no lands or all lands. Statistically, you're guaranteed to beat the best players in the world couple of times out of 100 games. Finally, I think the color pie (the 5 colors) is a pretty cool system for dividing up cards and solving the queen problem in card games (how to stop players from putting only the best cards in their decks by restricting them), because it divides up mechanics and whole thematic worlds by some generic faction or race, but by a very abstract philosophy, like white is about order and the common good, so they have healing, huge armies, religion, and most of their way of dealing with enemy creatures is lawfully pacifying them, killing them through proper combat, or by reimbursing the creatures owner with health or similar. Black on the other hand is selfish, ruthless, but also just efficient, they have zombies, vampires, they don't mind sacrificing their own creatures or even giving up their own life to get what they want, they don't play fair, they discard cards from your hand, and they simply just straight up kill creatures. In the lore, there was a vampire named Sorin Markov, he had a black-aligned card of course because vampires are selfish, but in the set where he wanted to unite and organize the vampires, he was printed as a white-black card to show the change in philosophy. And I just think that's neat, by far my main takeaway from magic as a designer. Extra credits has a great video explaining the colors if anyone's interested.

Have a cool day!

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Mon, 02/06/2023 - 22:26
#24
X3M
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Can you, show me a list?

Of all the avaiable cards that the game offers?

Maybe I can think of a nice combination for you to use.

Great that you have found at least those 2 cards. Blanchwood Armor is a very powerful one. It can instantly give a 1/1 creature a giantic power boost.

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Mon, 02/06/2023 - 23:36
#25
questccg
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Hmm... Arena is different from Magic.

First of all... Like I said, MANY of the cards are NOT available. There are about 1,000 cards when in paper there are more than 18,000+. MagicA does teach how you can fundamentally play... But the game is geared for Grinding.

A nice bit of news, I found out how to Redeem MagicA Codes. I got a ton of extra cards in ADDITION to a bunch of "Wildcards". I think WotC are trying to keep MagicA separate from MtG. Getting a bunch of cards (for FREE) is COOL! Plus I spent another $4.99 USD on a 2,500 gems and 5 booster packs. It was way worth it... I got a few extra "Wildcards" (like 4 or 5) and that's pretty neat too.

Like I am explaining MagicA is different than MtG (Card playing).

I don't want to sacrifice my "Wildcards" ... But I honestly DO have ENOUGH of them to build an ENTIRE Deck. Which is pretty cool... Just playing Casually a couple nights a week for a 2-hour session each night has landed me 95% of the Color "Match-Ups" which are designed to TEACH you MagicA. It's been okay so far.

There are still about 1,000 cards. I can't tell you what is available... It's a bit tough... You would probably need to get an account, play the Tutorial and beat the Dragon (Nick Bolas) ... And then you can go into the Deck section and create a NEW Deck and then figure out how/what you would put into your Deck...

Like I said MagicA is nothing like MtG. The "Match-Ups" seem to be fairly identical when you lose and replay. Like I said, they are TEACHING you how to PLAY (basically) and therefore there is a STRATEGY for each "Match-Up".

But yeah I can make a CUSTOM Deck ... But it would need to make sense...

Cheers @Ramon (and thanks for asking... But it's too much of a hassle!)

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Wed, 02/08/2023 - 00:28
#26
questccg
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MagicA is NOT MtG!

Why do I say this??? Well because everything is designed according to a subset of cards (a pool of 1,000+ cards not 18,000+ cards), furthermore you cannot just buy the "cards" (Singles) you want.

The reasons this is IMPORTANT(!) is because it "restricts" what your decks are capable of doing.

But MagicA in ITSELF is FUN! But it's different. It helps with all the HOUSE-KEEPING and although things like "Planeswalkers" and their abilities. Or Night/Day events (for Werewolves and such).

Counters +1/+1 tracking... I think MagicA was designed to be PLAYED ONLINE. Especially with all of the different aspects of the game (and understanding if you are playing correctly)! You know some of the cards are COMPLICATED and it doesn't make OBVIOUS sense HOW to use ALL of the card.

But I will never be able to WIN 15 Matches in ONE DAY! That's like 8+ hours of constant playing. I maybe do 1 hour or so every couple days or so...

There are some FUN rewards and they change. Like one was "Cast 25 White Spells!" I had fun with that one... Because EVEN If I DIED... I STILL WON!!! Hahahahaha! I earned like 500 Gold and 500 XP (for losing). That's FUN too.

If you LIKE MtG ... You might get frustrated with MagicA. It's much slower paced and HARD to be a Spike (and win all the time). Everyone is more or less playing the SAME Decks in Standard ... And so far out of 10 Decks I only have 2 "Standard-legal" Decks: Red/Green and White/Blue.

I'm still learning... It's cool. When I get bored, I can launch the game on my PC and Play a couple of matches and earn a Booster Pack or some Gold, etc.

MagicA is a GOOD game to play. That's the truth.

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Wed, 02/08/2023 - 10:10
#27
larienna
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I am currently having a class

I am currently having a class about Artificial Intelligence, and the last session was about adversarial searching, chess has a branching factor of 35. Which means that each turn, players have approximately 35 moves available to them in average.

I have not measured MTG branching factor, but from my observation, in average, it's probably less than 5. This is why, the strategy of the game is not in playing the game.

On the other hand, deck design actually have a very high permutations. If you consider a set of 1000 cards, using only unique cards, and using 40 non-land cards, then the possible combinations are 1000x999x998x997x996x...x961.

Playing MTG itself is no fun, but it's more interesting than playing solitaire. While playing Shandalar, it's better, because MTG becomes a minigame of Shandalar. The supervising game gives it more flesh.

Personally, I hate the pay to win model, and the recent digital version is what they are trying to reproduce. And dont give me the arguing than its still possible to win in the end, but putting more time in it, giving your blood, or any other machavelic schemes. If there are ways to shortcut to your objective, then it's unfair.

I prefer video game where you have complete control over it, there is no in game purchases. Same thing for the digital version of Duel Masters where you own the game, you can get all the cards you want without extra cost. You can play the game the way you want.

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Wed, 02/08/2023 - 18:22
#28
questccg
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I don't worry about such matters TBH!

MagicA has two (2) approaches: Pay for Crystals (which is one of the in-game currencies) or collect Gold (from grinding). You get rewarded by simply PLAYING the game which is COOL in my book because I'm not wasting my time when I play.

MagicA is NOT "Pay to Win" ... Because unlike Pokemon where you can buy anything and everything, there is no SINGLES market in MagicA. Your only way of getting the cards you want is to buy "Booster Packs" (What a surprise)!

And you know that "Booster Packs" are RANDOM as well.

So all those CLEVER decks you have in MtG... Well MOST you cannot have in MagicA because the print cards are not all available in MagicA.

The Decks are still subject to you earning "Wildcards" and being able to CRAFT you OWN Deck (of course limited to the 1,000 cards). What I have observed is that the duels are more or less fair ... And most people are on the same level as you.

The game REWARDS with Gold, XP (to get all kinds of goodies), Cards, Tokens and Boosters Packs. Plus sometime just by PLAYING you can earn a NEW DECK (its entirety)! Now that is AWESOME when that happens.

I got a Red/Green Wolf/Werewolf Deck which is SUPER AWESOME. And an White/Blue Angels Deck (Flying and such) which is COOL TOO... But not as good as the Red/Green Deck.

As for the AI you mention: all you can do is play cards from your hand. Which means that OFTEN you have less Mana than required to play a card and so my guess would be 3 to 5 maybe 6 in some instances... But it goes down as you play (because you only DRAW 1 card per turn).

So I do believe that MagicA or MtG is less complex than Chess.

Yes Deck Construction can be overwhelming... But you rely on other Decks (Core ones) and then you can see what Duo Colored Decks do too...

I've spend ~$20 USD only. And this was for 2 reasons:

  1. The Transformer Sleeves are AWESOME. So many people on Reddit are like: "Please take my money!" and they were there for a LIMITED time. They cost about $14.99 USD.

  2. And there was a Intro Pack (one-time only) for new players for $4.99 USD. I got 2,500 Crystals and 3 Phyrexia Booster Packs. Good deal.

I don't have concerns about "Pay to Win" ... I have concerns with "Pay to Play". Your "Duel Masters" probably used to cost like $50+ CAD to buy at Future Shop. Future Shop in no more, and a "Duel Masters" game was release on Playstation 2 ... But I did manage to find this:

Duel Masters PC Game

For half that amount, I've paid under $20 USD and have already played more than 20 hours in total of MagicA.

What is so FUN about MagicA??? It's SIMPLE: the computer handles all the options and subtleties of the cards. What's Day/Night (for Werewolves), +X/+X Counters (Yup those are complicated to track at a table), Planeswalker Abilities, Enchantments (like Bombardment), create "X" Token Creatures, or enchant all Creatures with Power under 2... The Red Deck has so much going on and it is SO MUCH FUN!!!

MagicA play Red like White (without Life Gain) but is very AGGRO (get all those small minions out and then BOMBARD your opponent...) It's FREAKEN FUN!!! Even when you LOSE the match-up!!! Or you play Two (2) Bombardment cards and now you do 2x the amount of damage per Creature Attacking...

I played the RED Deck only RECENTLY... And now that I am EARNING "Duo Colored Decks" ... That's pretty awesome by me.

But you have to be PATIENT and PLAY. Beating all 25 "Match-Ups" takes a bit of time. But you LEARN too... And the games are VERY similar if you REPLAY them. So as you say it's the Deck that matters not how you play it... (To a certain degree... Because getting Mana Screwed can happen).

Bottom line: I am surprised how AWESOME Arena is. I thought after the "Match-ups" I would get bored... But now that they've gone from Mono to Duo Colored Decks... Super cool ... And totally Bad Ass!

Best regards!

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Wed, 02/08/2023 - 19:20
#29
questccg
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Side note

The Mono Decks that they provide for playing against the AI are NOT "Standard" Compatible. But ... If you manage to get that FAR... The "Duo Colored" Decks ARE "Standard" Compatible. Which means that once you collect all 10 (not sure?) Duo Colored Decks... You should have some interesting combinations to look at.

I really don't know if all 10 Duo Colored Decks will be made available or only a "subset" (like the 1,000+ cards)... TBD. I will play some more and report back when I have more information about the remaining Duo Colored Decks.

Sincerely.

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Wed, 02/08/2023 - 22:44
#30
questccg
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MagicA is super FUN! Take my word for it...

questccg wrote:
I'll be SUPER HONEST and say that MagicA is not for me.

I'll EAT my words... MagicA is FUN! In what way... Well sometimes you can go back and choose one of those "Alkhemy" Decks which are not good for "Standard" Play but you can still DUEL with a Mono RED Deck...

It's not because I like RED, it's because my Quest was: "Deploy 45 Creatures!"

So who cares if I WIN or LOSE a Game... In any event, I'm moving forwards in terms of the Quest.

So NATURALLY you'll want to play Mono Red because of ALL the 1/1 Goblins that you can summon in a pinch. Plus you can play one (1) card that gives them +2/0 to ALL creatures you control... Which is INSANE ... Because in a matter of 3 to 4 turns you have like a DOZEN creatures in play (and each one counts as my +1 to 45 Creatures) and I won like 3 games pretty easily just relying on the Quests that I had been given.

I unlocked another Phyrexia Booster Pack too! Which was just "icing on the cake TBH!"

And so as "research" is going ... I'm going to need to ponder some more. Having 20 HP as your standard start is good... And you can RELAX a bit during the first 4 or 5 rounds by deploying "fodder" which like RED can be VERY "dangerous" and ramp-up FAST...

But my GOAL was never to WIN any of the duels... Only to DEPLOY as many Creatures as I could so that I could complete my 45 Creatures Quest... And well ... I did it in 3 matches only! Not to mention I WON all 3 of them! I didn't do anything special... Just default decks no tweaking, just as it is.

Over the weekend, I am going to do some more "analysis". @larinna explained the "Branching Factor" for any games which is sorta equal to the amount of moves available per turn. And I would agree MagicA it about 3 to 5 or 6...

But I'm still learning Decks. My Duo Color White/Blue Angels Deck is interesting... But I just played that Deck to EARN Quests. Because I had 2 Quests where the goal was "Cast 25 White or Blue Spells" or "Cast 25 Red or White Spells". So why not PLAY the White/Blue Angels Deck... Gain XP for BOTH Quests in my rewards track.

You may not have all "Tricked-out" Decks like you have in paper MtG ... But MagicA does a fair bit of ensuring that you're playing at or above your level.

Plus with Alkhemy, I can use even Basic Mono Decks and still earn points for my Quests in addition to maybe gaining XP if I WIN a couple matches here-and-there.

It's HONESTLY FUN to play. I'm no Spike... So I do LOSE... Yesterday or the night before that... I lost almost ALL my matches. But I completed my Quests and earning more Gold, XP and NEW Duo Colored Decks. So it was NOT a waste of time.

If you like MtG or Card Games (beats Solitaire 1000%) ... MagicA is worthwhile to play (and NO Wizards of the Cost did not pay me to say this...) I'm just being honest based on my experience playing the game. It's FUN and that's what I like in games FUN and ... NOT complexity. Simple where I can play the same deal 4 to 5 times in a row in a couple hours much like "Crystal Heroes" (CH) and yeah that satisfies my need for gaming.

Cheers all!

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