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Worker Actions: need your HELP!

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Thu, 06/30/2022 - 23:18
questccg
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Okay to make a brief summary, I am working on "Quest Adventure Cards(tm)" the Second (2nd) Edition. In the game you have parties of "Heroes" which go on "adventures/quests" (much like the name of the game).

Heroes are the "Worker" and currently I have SIX (6) ACTIONS that are defined.

#1 Recruit: Add a Hero of a certain "class" to your timeline.

#2 Train: Change one or more Heroes to another set of Heroes.

#3 Trap: Subtract a set of Heroes to pass this Fragment.

#4 Quest: Match the correct Party to pass this Fragment.

#5 Battle: Combat an opponent given a Party.

#6 Convert: Open Action which "transforms" one Hero Class to another.

***

All of the above are FREE Actions for the workers with the exception of the "Convert" Action which requires Heroes to PAY the Church to "convert"...

***

What I am asking as HELP?! Well I'd like ANOTHER "Action" if possible since the "Convert" action is now an OPEN action (meaning it can be done anywhere with any Heroes or Party given sufficient income).

Can you think up ANOTHER Action that Heroes (Workers) can do???

Many thanks for all those who share their thoughts and help me through this "block" time with this design...

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Thu, 06/30/2022 - 23:28
#1
questccg
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BTW just some point of reference...

The THREE (3) Last Actions (#3 Trap, #4 Quest, and #5 Battle) are "negative" actions that can be played by the OPPONENT into your "timeline".

So ideally I would want some BENEFICIAL (like #1 Recruit or #2 Train) which could give the player an additional Action that would work in his/her own favor.

Don't worry if you think-up another NEGATIVE Action... That's fine too... I'll still consider it if it makes sense.

Thank you!

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Fri, 07/01/2022 - 05:58
#2
X3M
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I don't know enough

Of your game, in order to think of something that might help.

So, here is a more general approach. Can you map out the game mechanics, that can be changed by an action?

For example, a hero can move from one spot to another. Then possible effects are that the hero can't move fast enough. Or can't cross a river. Stuff like that.
Then the worker placement can be: a horse, or somehowish a boat.

Stuff like that. Although, I have mentioned an example that is waaaay off your goal, I am sure of that.

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Fri, 07/01/2022 - 16:52
#3
questccg
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Can't be more explicit than I already am!

X3M wrote:
I don't know enough ... Of your game, in order to think of something that might help.

As I explained your workers are "Heroes" and so the missing action is something that a "Hero" or "Heroes" may DO in relation to the "adventure" they are embarking upon...

I'm not looking to the REASON to do the Action, just the Action itself. Your own example of a "Horse" or "Boat" for transportation is not the worst idea I have heard... It leads me to state that movement is made by Party and costs 1 to 3 Income which varies by the size of the Party. It can also cost 0 Income if the Party is a majority of the color of the next Fragment.

So if the Fragment is Yellow and a player has 2 Yellow, 1 Blue and 1 Green... That party could move to the Next Fragment at a COST of 0 Income.

Therefore my conclusion with the "Horse" or "Boat", the Action you are describing is a way of "Quicker Travel" and I would conclude this has something to do with Income... Because it COSTS to Travel, more Income = more Travel.

So naturally I would simply suggest a "generic" work Action to produce +1 Income... This would be good EARLY on in a game where the amount of Income is limited...

My conclusion is that the Action you are describing is a "Labor" Action. And it produces +1 Income based on a Party!

It's not that bad of an idea, you can always use more Income even later in the game when players have more Income available to them...

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Fri, 07/01/2022 - 17:12
#4
questccg
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And just for future reference...

I'm looking for GENERIC Actions... Something that a "Hero" or "Heroes" may do! As you can see, I've already listed a bunch of "Actions" that serve as valid examples of what I am looking for.

@X3M's "Labor" Action is not too bad... It's a generic form of "Work".

Does anyone else have any suggestions or ideas concerning some kind of Action???

Many thanks, cheers!

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Fri, 07/01/2022 - 17:35
#5
questccg
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@X3Ms generic Work Action got me thinking...

What if there was a "Route" or "Journey" Action. Not sure which of the two (2) terms is better. But for lack of a better term, it would allow Fragments to be "re-organized" to the "Right" of a Fragment.

It could also cost Income to do so (maybe).

What this would allow is to move one (1) Fragment from 1 to 3 positions from the Right closer or further from the "Route" Action.

Basically it's like some kind of "secret passage way" that allows you to re-organize the "Journey" that the Party of Heroes is about to embark upon...

Again this is JUST a "thought", it's like having a "Map" and deciding that the "Journey" can be quicker if the travelling is done in another manner.

Something like that! It's not as obvious as @X3M's generic "work" but it does give the flexibility to re-organize a "Journey" such that some cards can become closer or further away.

TBD... More examination of this Action is necessary. Maybe a rule like:

Quote:
You can ONLY "Route" your Quest Fragments (not those played by the opponent)...

Again this requires some more thought... Because it is cool and it allows your engine to be changed a bit to accomplish an adventure!

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Fri, 07/01/2022 - 20:37
#6
questccg
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Randomized Generation

I know I have an Ability called "Train" which allows you to change a series of Hero(es) from one class to another. And while that's all good... I said that I was looking for an Ability that could be a "positive" Action.

What I've recently come up with is something like this:

questccg wrote:
A randomized way of earning ONE (1) additional Hero given a set of Heroes who may be drawn randomly from this set.

An example: Say I call it "Fortify" and the set is 2 Yellow and 1 Orange. What this means is that I would put 2 Yellow cubes with 1 Orange cube and draw out ONE (1) Hero to be added to the Party at that Fragment. If I draw a Yellow, I get +1 Yellow Hero (Thief or Assassin), if I draw an Orange, I get +1 Orange Hero (Ranger or Bard).

The name of the Ability right now is "Fortify" Ability.

Again if you have other ideas for Actions, would love to hear from YOU! Looking forwards to reading your input and ideas!

Cheers.

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Sat, 07/02/2022 - 07:49
#7
X3M
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If your character

Has points distributed over stats etc.
Maybe an action where the player can put a point in another stat?
An action that teaches the hero to specialize a bit.

I had this with the XP.
Where a player could create several classes from the same units.

The most basic units could become, faster, weapon range longer, more health or more damage. And a combination of 2 or 3 stats created really funny adjustments.

Somehow the HnR units through XP where more expensive as well... Hmmmm.

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Sat, 07/02/2022 - 19:18
#8
gamesomuch
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Formation and Reconnaissance

I have a couple of ideas, but perhaps just new names for things you already have:

Formation: this would be an advantage to the party by having a certain mix of heroes in the party; what I've termed formation or how they arrange themselves in a battle to best advantage. Practically it's the same as your idea for adding a cube to the party.

Reconnaissance/Research/Questioning: this is practically the same as your idea for route/journey where the party can rearrange fragments/quests or perhaps uncover a new one, except I'm imagining the party making inquiries within a town before they go on a quest. The party could approach the town's leaders (royals, business leaders, etc.) to receive a quest with a greater reward. The party could have a 'fame' rating that helps determine whether they receive an audience.

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Sat, 07/02/2022 - 20:45
#9
questccg
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Thanks you for sharing some of your thoughts @X3M!

X3M wrote:
Has points distributed over stats etc. Maybe an action where the player can put a point in another stat? An action that teaches the hero to specialize a bit.

I like where you are going with this. It actually "inspired" me! Originally I was going to use colored wooden cubes and would be restricted to "classes" based on the color...

But your IDEA about "stats" has made me decide that I will instead be using 12mm D6s! Yes! So now the Heroes have ONE (1) stat and IF you remember a way LOONNNGGGG time ago, I shared a sample Quest AC v2.0 card and you said it was BAD because not good for Color-Blind people. Well given your IDEA + Feedback, I have decided to go in that direction.

So if the "Recruit" = "3Y", it means add one (1) 12mm Yellow D6 and position it on "3"! This opens a whole bunch of NEW possibilities. It's got me re-thinking the ENTIRE game because of the new STAT(s).

I also ordered a Dice Cup with Cover to simulate the various Actions.

I'm working on it... But ATM everything is in "disarray". I've got to re-think all of the Actions now based on the STATs (which is still up for debate).

For example: I am thinking about a DIFFERENT STAT for each one of the Classes.

My classes of Heroes are pretty straight-forward:

Color Class Stat Abbv
Red Fighters & Champions Strength [STR]
Orange Rangers & Bards Dexterity [DEX]
Yellow Thieves & Assassins Agility [AGI]
Green Wizards & Mages Intelligence [INT]
Blue Clerics & Druids Charisma [CHA]
Purple Paladins & Knights Endurance [END]

 
This will take some time to re-work the game. Adding ONE (1) STAT was not too complicated (in essence) but adding SIX (6) STATS dramatically changes the overall experience (literally!) It means that things like "Trial" Fragments now can rely on Input Stats (what is require to face the "Trial") and produce Output Stats (which mean a re-shuffling of the party). This is only one (1) example...

But I have a very positive "outlook" in terms of these NEW STATS. I think they will add quite a bit of variety to the classes and make them more that just generic color-matching mechanisms.

I will definitely think more about this tonight. (I'm still waiting for Jay to review my comments and suggestions with his political game...) So I have some free time to think things over a bit!

Keep you all posted... And see where this goes!

But definitely in the right direction adding more STATS makes the game a bit more OPEN too. So we'll have to see... Cheers.

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Sat, 07/02/2022 - 22:24
#10
questccg
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The STATS open-up new possibilities

Like for example a "Magical Pendant": When you recruit Wizards & Mages with a level less than 3, gain +1 INT. That's one "interesting" item in the game...

This is of course forcing me to think HARDER on the "Treasury" and "Reactive Fragments". In what sense?! Well it used to be that EACH card in the "Treasury" would score +1 Income. So 10 Cards = 10 Income.

But then there were "Reactive Fragments" which grant ABILITIES (such as above), however I realize now that instead of simply having ONE (1) Reactive Fragment per completed Quest. That means only two (2) before ending the game. So I am thinking that NOW the player can choose up to three (3) Reactive Fragments per completed Quest (so a Maximum of six Reactive Fragments)...

Anyhow it opens up the possibilities when it comes to ITEMS and such.

Of course I need more time to work on the various STATS and think-up more impact that work with these changes.

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Sat, 07/02/2022 - 23:01
#11
questccg
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@Glen...

You can read my reply to @X3M... Because I am going to ADD STATS to each of the classes of Heroes in the game. But thanks for sharing and penning down some of your thoughts. Your "Fame" idea is interesting ... The way I see it is for a "Trial", it will require the right Heroes and STATS to pass the "Trial".

After a "Trial", the result is a re-organization of the Party (RNG). So it's a COOL way to randomize a party and require the right party to embark on the "Trial"...

"Battles" are pretty simple. You have a REQUIREMENT for the Party needed to do battle. Once you meet the requirement, you can then place the Party into the Dice Cup and add the identical amount of "smoke" dice. And then you draw one at a time, a dice from the cup... When either side is expended (the Monster or the Party) the battle ends with the victor (either the Player or the Monster).

It's very tricky because the battle mechanic has a way of "balancing" itself or if you are very LUCKY, you might have a more favorable battle... But the mechanic itself lends to approaching 50/50 odds of success.

Anyhow ... The STATS add a "Layer" above the existing game... Right now I'm not even sure IF I will have "Route" Actions... This is something that I will need to playtest. Because re-organizing your Active Quest Timeline is something which makes sense.

Well TBH, having the "Convert" Action which costs from 1 to 3 Income was in a way a method by which I could GUARANTEE that no player was ever STUCK with the wrong set of cards and Parties/Heroes.

The STATS take away this "by-pass method" in that now you have MINIMUMS. Like requiring a Fighter & Champion with 3+ Strength (for example). And because of this a Recruit card with a 3+ Strength can be combined with the "Convert" Action and voila ... problem solved.

So I'm thinking that as the game progresses, the more powerful cards you can play because you have MORE Income and probably some "Reactive Fragments" which can help by providing bonuses instead of Income.

But still... There's a bit of a BALANCING Act that may force a player to STALL because his engine is missing the right kind of Action/Card/Fragment.

Best!

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Sat, 07/02/2022 - 23:23
#12
questccg
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More balancing in the game itself

Generally speaking you want to get a MINIMUM of a Completed Quest such that you can put into the Treasury the Fragments to earn more Income to allow you to play more POWERFUL cards into the Active Quest Timeline.

But again the game has a way of BALANCING itself out.

See nobody is going to want to wait 60 minutes to complete ONE (1) Quest... When the goal is to complete THREE (3) of them!

At the same time, meeting the sufficient Income requirement to play better cards and get your engine into gear is also very important too!

So essentially you are trading off more time/richer Treasury/More Income for a quicker progression and trying to accomplish the THREE (3) Quests FIRST.

It's a very interesting game for sure. I've been working on it for about 10 years... And I'm still learning and finding new NUGGETS of WISDOM to improve upon the "core" game by adding a new layer (like the STATS).

The problem with a game like this is the COST of producing $25,000 of Art Assets for the game. About 300+ cards for a first run. It's also following a less than POPULAR FORMAT which is a CCG (Collectible Card Game). So a LOT of pitfalls and ATM I'm not financially capable of producing such a game.

Even before TradeWorlds (TW) and Quest (1st Edition) ... I still would NOT have the finances to make the 2nd Edition a reality ... Even less with the investments on TW and Quest.

Cheers.

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Sun, 07/03/2022 - 02:14
#13
questccg
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Note that this design is still in flux

What I mean is that at lot of the concepts in this design have yet to be "proven"! This design is in the "advanced" conceptual stage. What does that mean??? Well it generally means that this particular design is a combination of a bunch of IDEAS for how to handle an "Engine-Builder" for Adventuring and embarking on Quests.

It is very NOVEL ... But still there are many hurdles to pass before this design looks to be ready for presentation or even producing a prototype.

As I mentioned the "project" ATM is unfeasible even if the DESIGN is COOL! So I continue to "tweak-it" and improve upon the "core" design. It's been a while since I got some time to spend on it. And this weekend, I managed to find a bit of time to discuss my challenges ONLINE (about the design and it's Actions) and to put some of my OWN thoughts to mature a bit.

Much like @stormyknight1976 Dymino Monsters, Quest 2nd Ed. is one of those projects that IF I manage to MAKE it... It's because I've found a way to bring to live a "dream project" something that I truly feel would be COOL but am not sure how successful the venture would be in the Market/Industry.

It's purely a PASSION-PROJECT ATM. But I like the new STATS Layer and hopefully will work on it a bit tomorrow. Cheers all!

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