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Help!!: I'm stuck with figuring out how much

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Basically, this is my first game and I don't have the knowledge or the experience that many of you have. I'm new to the board game world so I am seeking knowledge. Thanks in advance.

Joined: 12/31/1969
Help!!: I'm stuck with figuring out how much

There are several threads in the Game Publication and Ask The Experts forums that will be of use. Here are two that I found with a quick perusal:

The "10x" and "6x" rules they are discussing are that your final retail price is 10 times your production cost (or 6 times, though 10 times is heard much more frequently).

The hobby game price discounts tend to be 40% of retail to the distributor, who in turn charges 60% of retail to the retailer. These numbers are only general, and will likely be very different for mass market distribution (which is more common for trivia games).

(Also, a note: you're a registered user now, so please don't start threads in the Quick Forum: look at the forum list and find one that's appropriate. I've moved this thread to the Game Publication forum. Thanks.)

-- Matthew

Re: Help!!: I'm stuck with figuring out how much

iwentpp wrote:
I got a quote from a company for about $20,000 from them to produce 5,000 of my games. Here is a couple of questions.

(Its a trivia game for a specific market so I am confident it will sell but I don't have any distributors yet). Most of my distributors will be overseas (Europe)

Actually before I answer that question I want to help you make sure that your quote isn't too high:

What are the components in your game?
Cards? (If so, how many and are they full color)
other bits?

If you don't mind sharing, what company gave the quote and where are they located?

Another thing to consider is that 5000 games is a LOT of games - especially for a first time publisher (apologies if you aren't, I'm just guessing from the question that you haven't priced a game before). 3000 is a much safer number to start with - the unit price will go up quite a bit, but you are less likely to have 2000 extra games sitting around your house.

To get back to the original question 8-10x the production cost will generally be a must, but you will have to consider whether the public will be willing to pay that for the game you're planning based on the components etc. If not, then you should look for a cheaper quote or seriously reconsider whether to publish the game. I've turned down great games because they weren't economically feasible to publish for this reason - it stinks to have to do it but if your goal is to eventually make money, sometimes there are hard choices.

Help!!: I'm stuck with figuring out how much

Thank you.

Ideally, I would rather go with 1,000 games but it seems that every company that I have spoken to is only willing to go with a minimum of 5,000. I have sent my game description out to about 20 companies. So far I have only got response from about 4 of them so maybe I should wait for a company who has a lesser minimum.

Here is what my game consists of:

*Set up box
size: 11" x 11 " x 2 1/2"
print: 4 color, glossy finish

size: 22" x 22" quad fold
pring: 4 color print, glossy finish
black backing

*Instruction booklet
size: 8.5" x 10.975" - 2 sheets
folded 8.5" x 5.4375"
print: 1c+1c

*Card deck (1)
qty: 300 cards
materials & pricing vary
size: 2" x 3"
material: 260 gsm
Print: full color (but maybe I can go down to 1 color on color cardstock if its going to make a huge difference in price)
square corners
(there are about 300 card with 4 questions (1 per catagory) on each card)

*Card deck (2) similar to Monopoly - "Community & Chance" cards
2.06" x 2"
qty: 32 pcs
material: 190 gsm
print: 1c + 1c

*Plastic playing pieces (game pawns)
qty: 8 pcs (similar to Sorry style pawns)

qty: 2 pcs
size: 16mm



What other information would you like?

Help!!: I'm stuck with figuring out how much

Hmm. For 5000 units and all those components $4 is actually a really good price I think. That said, 5000 units is (IMHO) still way too many.

My printer has a 3000 unit minimum:
Quality Park Printing
They are in Hong Kong but look on the website for the U.S. rep's email address. My rep is in Hong Kong because they won't let you switch once you have one. They printed Nobody But Us Chickens and I was very happy with the result. I'm getting a better cardstock for the Employee of the Month than I had for Chickens but other than that if you look at Chickens you can get a representative view of their quality. (Note: I'm mentioning Chickens only for the purposes of providing a sample of the printer's work, not to pimp the game :P )

Based on what I've seen of their products and heard from several of their customers I would stay away from Printmasters India, just in case you have been in contact with then. They also have low minimums, but their result isn't of the best quality.

Back to the pricing - I'm not sure exactly what you could price that game at just because my area of 'expertise' has far fewer components. What I would suggest doing is going to your FLGS and start looking at games that have similar size boxes, number of cards, extra components, etc. and see what they're priced at. The mass market ones will be much lower than the German and/or small press ones with similar quantities because they're printing in the millions rather than the thousands (or even tens or hundreds of thousands), but even so since your game is a Trivia game people will compare it to Trivial Pursuit, Cranium and other party type games - so you will need to make sure you can price it comparably.

One thing to consider in terms of lowering the cost once you find a printer that will do a shorter run (which will probably add about $2 to the unit cost) - if you can use a standard card and box size, they may already have a die in that size which can save hundreds off the top. "Bridge Cut" cards (in the U.S. at least) are 2.25" x 3.5", and poker cut are a little wider but I don't know the exact dimensions. When in doubt while getting printer quotes, let them know if you can be flexible in dimensions to fit an existing die.

All just my opinion, of course :wink:

Help!!: I'm stuck with figuring out how much

I really appreciate your help and advice.

My game is targeted for the Muslim community. There have been less than 5 board games (to the best of my knowledge) in the last 17 years in the Muslim community. Unfortunately, I do not have any easy means in finding a distribution center to sell games since most Muslims shop at local "mom & pop" stores. The last of the Muslim games released is called "Race to the Kaba" and the average selling price is about $30.

I think their game is too simple and not very fun at all. Their target audience is little children & I'm not sure how successful they have been but most people I know find the concept of the game very boring. My game is very different and I have already started getting preorders (just based on people viewing my protoype). Its funny because I haven't even mentioned the price to them.

I'm looking at selling my game for maybe $25 (I don't think that's too expensive considering all my competition is selling in the $30 range).

In the states, I found one company who can do the game for $7 each (at 5,000 minimum) and they wanted a $5,000 setup charge (is it just me or is that WAY TOO MUCH for a one-time setup fee). I found another company who said for $6. Both companies are basing their price on a 5,000 unit minimum. Personally, I think I can find better prices but maybe I have been looking in the wrong place.

The $4 per unit is from China but nothing has been confirmed yet. It was just chat internet. The shipping and setup is another $3000 from them which moves the game up to close to $5 per game from China.

Anyways, my game isn't written in stone and I am willing to compromise small things (like card size) to get a better price.

Do you think I can find a better deal (maybe from the company you mentined)??

I wish there was website where gamers would post the specs of their games and companies would bid to make it. That would be awesome.

Help!!: I'm stuck with figuring out how much

I think it is worth contacting them to find out - I haven't priced a game with as many components as you have but it is certainly worth a shot.

Since you are targeting a special interest group I'm guessing you can probably support a slightly higher price tag than you otherwise would - in the $30's sounds very reasonable to me and you will likely need to charge that much to recoup your costs anyway.

The traditional sales channels will probably not be much help, as you've said - but I'm guessing if you make enough phone calls to the Muslim communities in various cities you may be able to find out who the suppliers of Muslim related goods are (books and the like) and try to contact them directly if you haven't already. There may even be a market for the games at some of the Halal (not sure if I spelled that right, sorry!) grocery stores that sell other things besides just food. I'm sure you would know these kinds of contacts better than I though!

As for whether you can get a better deal, I really don't know - you'd have to check with them directly, but it's worth a shot!

ps. Remember that the mom and pop stores have to get their goods from someplace - explain what you're trying to do and they might share their supplier's names with you!

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