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Players fates in other players hands

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Milostnik
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Joined: 03/11/2017

Hey ya'll.

I'm still developing my co-op minotaur game, where all the players have to navigate out of a labyrinth with an AI Minotaur killing off the pawns one by one.

The Premise: There are 12 pawns on the board, where one out of the 12 is player specific, pick your favourite number kinda thing. The leftover numbers turn into NPC allies that all the players can control.

Players push their luck with 6 dice that allow them to do particular actions, one being move, one being search and another which counts as 1 success towards any objectives.

There is a clock type token on the side of the board (with numbers 1-12 on it) and the hand moves to the next number, every time a particular symbol on the dice is rolled.

At the beginning of the player's turn they flip over a card from a deck that says "SAFE" or "MINOTAUR STRIKES". If its "SAFE" then the player can do their turn as normal. if it says "MINOTAUR STRIKES" then the Minotaur attacks the number Pawn that the clock is currently set to (be it a player or an NPC). The players then have to flip over another card from another deck that shows the difficulty to beat that type of attack (i.e 6 objectives being super difficult, and 1 objective being easy). The player whose turn it is has to try and roll that number or success (or not) to see if that pawn survives - if they don't succeed then that pawn is dead and removed from the game.

The problem I ran into is the fact that if its a player that gets targetted by the Mino, then another player essentially has to try everything they can to save them - but the targeted player has no control over their own death.

I played with a "get out of jail free" kinda system, but it feels kinda cheap, because the 2nd time means immediate death.

The second thing I wanted to try maybe figure out is when the "Minotaur Strikes" comes out, ALL THE PLAYERS get to react in that turn, but then comes the problem of balancing the strength of the Mino cards. For example, 4 players rolling 6 dice is a lot harder to balance than 1 player only being allowed to roll 6 dice in their turn.

I've come on here when I'm in a pickle and absolutely love the suggestions and often helps get the gears moving to solve the issue.

Hopefully, this makes some kind of sense.

Regards

wob
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Joined: 06/09/2017
hi. i think i understand your

hi. i think i understand your game.
the clock does confuse me a bit as surely all players will want to be a low number so they cant be targeted after the first couple of goes.

your first problem can be solved by having the mino attack the active player (if that doesnt ruin the rest of your game)

the second problem could be solved by adding levels to the mino dependent on player count. so 1 player = 1 attack, 2 players=3 attack etc

birblady
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Joined: 10/02/2018
Hi Milo! I like your idea a

Hi Milo!

I like your idea a lot but I have to agree that the clock part confuses me. Is there some reason why a clock is used? Like is the story that they have a certain amount of time to get out before being trapped in there forever?

I don't know if this will work but it doesn't hurt to suggest things. What about instead of a timed clock that select players, you just have the board divided into areas and certain areas do greater attacks. Like, the closer they get to escape the angrier the minotaur gets and therefore does greater damage. This will give players a chance to search for items that will help them before attacks become deadly. Obviously, the objectives get more difficult the closer you get to an exit as well so there never ceases to be a challenge. Collecting items isn't enough, maybe objectives help you move further along instead of just a simple roll move mechanic.

Either way, I'm interested to see how you resolve the issue.

let-off studios
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Joined: 02/07/2011
Success Rolls

Milostnik wrote:
The problem I ran into is the fact that if its a player that gets targetted by the Mino, then another player essentially has to try everything they can to save them - but the targeted player has no control over their own death. [...] The second thing I wanted to try maybe figure out is when the "Minotaur Strikes" comes out, ALL THE PLAYERS get to react in that turn, but then comes the problem of balancing the strength of the Mino cards. For example, 4 players rolling 6 dice is a lot harder to balance than 1 player only being allowed to roll 6 dice in their turn.
There are a few game systems out there that require "successes" in order to achieve an objective. For example, if players use a d6, their throw must result in a 4-5-6 to be considered a success.

You can add to or subtract from the success threshold (the result needed for a success), or the overall number of successes (the number of dice that need a successful result), or both. You can also add or subtract from the number of dice a given player(s) is permitted to throw due to various situational factors.

Modifications can make things more challenging for players, or in the case of trivial tasks it can be made to be more easily achievable. Additionally, equipment, buffs, or other game conditions can be created to modify the quantity or challenge of a Minotaur Strike.

I see two ways you can go about using this: Success Dice, or Success Partners.

SUCCESS DICE
The number on the card indicates the number of dice thrown that must have a Success result. For example, if the Minotaur Strike card indicates a 5, this means that of all the players participating in the roll, at least five of the thrown dice must be considered a success.

SUCCESS PARTNERS
The number on the card indicates the number of additional participants that must have rolled a Success result. For example, if the Minotaur Strike card indicates a 5, this means that five or more participants must roll a Success for their attempt to be considered a success.

///

Meanwhile... Like another comment above, I have issues with the clock mechanic you mention (what happened to the noise-making mechanic you were working with in earlier versions?), but perhaps that's worth discussing in a different post.

Milostnik
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Joined: 03/11/2017
https://1drv.ms/u/s!AlIMvcgS1

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AlIMvcgS1FYJgp9scIzIjzEKEZrm-g

Thanks for the suggestions, everyone.

In regards to the clock mechanic - I understand where you're all coming from. I should have clarified a little more. The clock mechanic is just to display that when it reaches a full rotation it just continues to the next number, as opposed to a line of numbers and looping back the beginning again. I've also jumbled all the numbers up so they arn't sequential to stop exactly what you guys were worrying about.

The players place a token on the numbers directly opposite each other and have to make sure there is an even number of spaces between them. E.G A 2 player game would mean 1 player has #1 and the other has #10, 3 players = 1 player on #1, 1 player on #9, and the last on #5 etc.

///

I'm still in a rut when it comes to thinking about what the players can do when the MINO STRIKES card comes up. Coz all the players will have to work together in that particular moment to try and stop the MINO from killing one of the pawns.

Do you feel that you as a player would feel ripped off if your life was left up to another players dice roll and actions? Or would you feel better if you had a chance to roll as well? Or would you find it better to just not leave it up to dice rolls at all?

let-off studios
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Joined: 02/07/2011
Hot Potato

I have some thoughts on this:

  • if relying on other players is just part of the mechanics, players will adjust to it. Their thought at that moment may be, "Well I'm targeted this turn, everyone. Help!" Will the player feel ripped off in this instance? I don't know. Playtesting might reveal the answer to that rather quickly.

    Of course, there's always the potential of frustration that comes about when your ideas come crashing to a halt. On the one hand, that's just the design process. On the other, you'll be glad you found out about it early. :)

    Personally speaking, I would prefer to have a go at it myself when I'm targeted, then allow other players to "chip in" and assist if their rolls, equipment, abilities, etc. would be helpful. Not sure what your thoughts would be on that front.

  • The dial mechanic you mention makes this a kind of "hot potato" game, where the order in which it must be caught/tossed is always the same. I imagine there's tension building for those whose numbers are coming up and who are next, and relief when you make it past your number because you know you'll have a bit of time before you're targeted next. It's a rhythm of taking risky and conservative play, and I think there will be folks wondering just how much flexibility is in that range.

    Another upshot of this is that it will allow players a chance to participate in everyone's turn, depending on how frequently the Minotaur Strike cards are revealed. This might be great, because those who are not in much danger might be otherwise disengaged from the proceedings.

  • With players relying so much on others, it opens up the potential for a "traitor" mechanic... Not sure if you want to go down that route, or if it's even possible when dice are such a present factor (and for example, the traitor might feel like they don't have a chance at winning with so much unpredictability working against them). But it does make me wonder.

///

Hope this was helpful! Keep up the great work, Milostnik! :)

wob
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Joined: 06/09/2017
i dont think you will have a

i dont think you will have a problem with players not controlling their fates. co-op games are built around this. if it is a semi-co-op it might be more of a problem (or feature). a way to ensure players always try to save is to give the "1 die all lose" condition, or make each character more necessary for victory (either as a specific type or by making the game harder as people die)
as a general rule (in modern games) it is best not to eliminate players until the end (no one wants to watch a game after they are out)

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