I am looking forward to my first visit to KublaCon! I have never been to a gaming convention before and hope to see and play a lot of new games; both published and unpublished.
I am also submitting my game 3 Tours of War into the amateur board game design contest and hope to get good feedback from the people who play it.
I have read and received a lot of good tips from BGDF and would like to thank the community for it, and I hope to see some of you there :-)
- KublaCon is in San Francisco CA from May 27th - 30th
- Submissions for the amateur board game design contest must be in by May 15th!
Comments
I'll see you there!
I have been attending KublaCon for 6 or 7 years now, and I'll be back again next month. I used to enter the Design Contest (no longer eligible), maybe they'll let me help judge it this time :)
I always like to see what is submitted to that contest, and I like the convention for it's social atmosphere - I do mostly open gaming, not much scheduled stuff.
Game Reviewed @ KublaCon
I had my game reviewed this weekend by a very nice lady named Julie Haehn @ KublaCon. This year being my first gaming convention that I have ever attended and my first game that I have ever submitted for review; I was very nervous but received good feedback and had a great time. Julie said my game was the nicest game (visually) she has ever seen in all the time she has been reviewing games for Kubla.
After the review she told me upon opening it she enjoyed the look and art so much that she saved the game for last to be play tested; she even had a picture she showed me of her excitement upon reviewing the contents of the game. That was very nice to hear and I breathed a sigh of relief.
As for the rules of the game she told me my game was well themed (war), but didn’t have enough movement choices and she felt it could play better if I used the d12 for all player actions instead of the d8 and d12 it currently uses. I have taken that into consideration in the past and found that by using just the d12, people miss out on landing on certain icons on the board that are limited in number.
My game is a simple luck based (with little strategy) “Americana” type game and I feel that a lot of people prefer Euro-style games that have lots of strategy with a setup that allows for multiple areas of movement. But I tend to enjoy Americana type games and that is what I modeled my game after.
Julie also told me that someone @ Z-man games had seen (not sure if played) my game and wanted me to send them my portfolio. I don’t know if that means game portfolio or art portfolio. I am eagerly awaiting hearing from Julie so I can get that individual @ Z-man games email.
It was a great overall experience even though I didn’t win, and I am still hoping to find a good publisher for my board game.
!
After the review she told me upon opening it she enjoyed the look and art so much that she saved the game for last to be play tested; she even had a picture she showed me of her excitement upon reviewing the contents of the game. That was very nice to hear and I breathed a sigh of relief.
As for the rules of the game she told me my game was well themed (war), but didn’t have enough movement choices and she felt it could play better if I used the d12 for all player actions instead of the d8 and d12 it currently uses. I have taken that into consideration in the past and found that by using just the d12, people miss out on landing on certain icons on the board that are limited in number.
My game is a simple luck based (with little strategy) “Americana” type game and I feel that a lot of people prefer Euro-style games that have lots of strategy with a setup that allows for multiple areas of movement. But I tend to enjoy Americana type games and that is what I modeled my game after.
Julie also told me that someone @ Z-man games had seen (not sure if played) my game and wanted me to send them my portfolio. I don’t know if that means game portfolio or art portfolio. I am eagerly awaiting hearing from Julie so I can get that individual @ Z-man games email.
It was a great overall experience even though I didn’t win, and I am still hoping to find a good publisher for my board game.
I was at that presentation, and I saw the prototype you had submitted... WOW! Hand painted everything, very awesome pieces...
A couple of things... first off, Julie said that Z-Man was interested in your ART portfolio, and she said that if you sent it to them there was a decent chance you could get work AS AN ARTIST (just to clarify).
As for your game, I got the impression that it was a very simple "roll and move" type of game. Many older American style games are "roll and move" (Monopoly, Parchisi, Sorry, Candyland, Chutes and ladders for some examples) - while those might not be games I'm personally jumping up and down to play, they have certainly sold their share of copies!
You always have to consider your audience. The tricky thing about game design contests is that the judges are in their own demographic, and it's VERY difficult to evaluate a game that is intended for some other demographic. I do not know what your target demographic is - in fact I would hazard a guess that you haven't considered that. When publishing a game, it becomes very important to consider who the game is intended to be for. The comments Julie gave you about your game not having choices and not being very strategic must be taken with a grain of salt - if you are intending 3 Tours of War to be played by the average adult strategy gamer, you're in trouble because that type of player will not be interested in a game where you don't make any real choices. If instead you intend your game to be for a younger audience (like an older kids version of Chutes and Ladders), then you might be just fine with the level of strategy or choices.
I think the comments of Julie's that you should really take to heart are the ones like "in order to take a turn, you have to roll a die like 4 times just to see if you rescue the POW or not" - streamlining that kind of thing is probably a good idea - if the result of something is random anyway, it can be determined just as easily with 1 die roll as it can be with 4. The comment about the d12 vs d8 is similar, you could remove one of those dice from the game ad then not have to worry about needing to remember which one to roll each time, etc. And I suspect the reason she suggested removing the d8 instead of the d12 was to keep the game from dragging on (make it as short as possible) - I bet she would have preferred a d20. This is because when a gamer is in a game where they're not making decisions and the outcome is random, they want that random outcome to be revealed as quickly as possible.
I would suggest that you actually consider using 2d6 rather than 1d12 (or 2d8 if you prefer). There are lots of interesting things about the distribution of rolls when using 2 dice instead of 1. Also, you can get away from having 2 different sized dice in the game (and having to remember when to use each)...
Suppose you rolled 2 dice on your turn, and then moved the total on one (encountered the space) then the total on the other (and encountered that space). Then you would effectively move about the same distance each turn, do 2x as much stuff, and have a simple but probably important decision to make ("which order do I want to hit these 2 spaces in"). Then as long as the resolution of each space is quick and snappy, that could be an improvement.
Other random ideas that could help players land on the spaces they want are to put items like an Energy Bar (or stim pack, or energy drink) which gives you +2 to one of your dice - either you collect the item and use it later, or else you 'eat the energy bar' upon landing on the space, and add +2 to die the next time you move.
Finally, it sounded like you go along the board, try not to get hit by Death, and occasionally save POWs. I do not know how you win the game (is it the first to complete 3 Tours of War? The player to rescue the most POWs?) - but maybe rescuing a POW could be a simple decision too - if you attempt, you roll some die or dice, and maybe you rescue them or maybe something bad happens. Or better, if you rescue the POW, then Death comes after you, making life a bit harder for you.
Anyway, good job on the production of your prototype! And good luck with your game in the future. My advice is to decide your target audience, and it doesn't hurt to mention that when you submit to a contest (so maybe the judges can consider that even if THEY think it's not so hot, that it might be more appropriate for the TARGET AUDIENCE.)
Oh, and if your target audience IS youngsters, you might also want to make sure the theme is appropriate for that audience. I don't know what's in your game, but Julie mentioned cigarettes and grenades...
And if I misread the intent of the game (being something of a kids game) then I apologize - no offense intended. However if it's a game for adults, then Julie's comments about decisions is spot on.
- Seth
Thank you for your comments
I was at that presentation, and I saw the prototype you had submitted... WOW! Hand painted everything, very awesome pieces...
Thank you for the nice comment seth :-)
A couple of things... first off, Julie said that Z-Man was interested in your ART portfolio, and she said that if you sent it to them there was a decent chance you could get work AS AN ARTIST (just to clarify).
That's what I thought she meant, but I don't really have an art portfolio. I'll have to start working on that; I do have 70 cards worth of original art to start with :-)
You always have to consider your audience. The tricky thing about game design contests is that the judges are in their own demographic, and it's VERY difficult to evaluate a game that is intended for some other demographic. I do not know what your target demographic is - in fact I would hazard a guess that you haven't considered that. When publishing a game, it becomes very important to consider who the game is intended to be for. When publishing a game, it becomes very important to consider who the game is intended to be for. The comments Julie gave you about your game not having choices and not being very strategic must be taken with a grain of salt - if you are intending 3 Tours of War to be played by the average adult strategy gamer, you're in trouble because that type of player will not be interested in a game where you don't make any real choices. If instead you intend your game to be for a younger audience (like an older kids version of Chutes and Ladders), then you might be just fine with the level of strategy or choices.
Yeah, I agree. I should have made it more clear that my game is meant for people who do enjoy those older american style games. It is a small demographic but I enjoy these types of games a lot and wanted to start within this demographic and add a silly/light-hearted war theme to the game. I enjoy it a lot and my small gaming group enjoys it too. I have found people outside my group to play it, but i have run across some gamers who say it is painted well and enjoy the art but pass on it because it looks to simple. I don't take any offensive to that.
I think the comments of Julie's that you should really take to heart are the ones like "in order to take a turn, you have to roll a die like 4 times just to see if you rescue the POW or not" - streamlining that kind of thing is probably a good idea - if the result of something is random anyway, it can be determined just as easily with 1 die roll as it can be with 4. The comment about the d12 vs d8 is similar, you could remove one of those dice from the game ad then not have to worry about needing to remember which one to roll each time, etc. And I suspect the reason she suggested removing the d8 instead of the d12 was to keep the game from dragging on (make it as short as possible) - I bet she would have preferred a d20. This is because when a gamer is in a game where they're not making decisions and the outcome is random, they want that random outcome to be revealed as quickly as possible.
That part was partially my fault, I don't think she read the rules correctly, which means I probably didnt write them clear enough. A player is given 2 dice; a d8 for movement and a d12 for combat. The first thing a player will do on their turn is roll that d8 to move along the board. If he or she should happen to land on a PoW token they must give 2 rolls with a d12. One to dodge being shot at, one to shoot the bad guy and take the PoW token. So only two rolls are needed.
If there were no token on the board you just need to roll once to avoid being shot at (wounded). Other instances of a d12 being used is when a player lands on an Open Fire icon. This will result in drawing a card that makes you endure a a difficult combat of sorts that you will do by yourself or with the whole group. These combats are resolved with d12's too. There is only 1 icon (very rare) that results in you rolling the chance die; the one she called the "fate" die and really enjoyed; that will give you good or bad results.
I would suggest that you actually consider using 2d6 rather than 1d12 (or 2d8 if you prefer). There are lots of interesting things about the distribution of rolls when using 2 dice instead of 1. Also, you can get away from having 2 different sized dice in the game (and having to remember when to use each)...
Suppose you rolled 2 dice on your turn, and then moved the total on one (encountered the space) then the total on the other (and encountered that space). Then you would effectively move about the same distance each turn, do 2x as much stuff, and have a simple but probably important decision to make ("which order do I want to hit these 2 spaces in"). Then as long as the resolution of each space is quick and snappy, that could be an improvement.
Other random ideas that could help players land on the spaces they want are to put items like an Energy Bar (or stim pack, or energy drink) which gives you +2 to one of your dice - either you collect the item and use it later, or else you 'eat the energy bar' upon landing on the space, and add +2 to die the next time you move.
My game also has "Supply Depot" cards that consist of equipment and interrupts cards that do various things to help you along the way. Some similar to what you are describing. You start of with 3 of these and can gain more from landing on a Supply Depot icon or by completing a tour.
Finally, it sounded like you go along the board, try not to get hit by Death, and occasionally save POWs. I do not know how you win the game (is it the first to complete 3 Tours of War? The player to rescue the most POWs?) - but maybe rescuing a POW could be a simple decision too - if you attempt, you roll some die or dice, and maybe you rescue them or maybe something bad happens. Or better, if you rescue the POW, then Death comes after you, making life a bit harder for you.
Yup, death is a random inconvenience that keeps you on your toes. A player can advance forward or backward to try and earn more points but sometimes going back will keep you from being permanently wounded by death as he passes by.
In order to win the game you must complete all 3 tours and earn the most points along the way. Each player who finishes a tour fastest earns more points but being in the lead isn't always a good thing as a player who saves more PoW point tokens. There are also certain action you can perform along the way that can earn you points, like playing the "Cheat Death" interrupt card to save an ally, or the "First Aid" card to heal an ally. Once the first person has finished his or her last tour, their is a 6 turn countdown. Every remaining player must finish their last tour in those 6 turns or halve their points and the game ends. The player with the most points when the game ends is the winner. It has happened that a players points are halved and they still win!
When I first play tested this game most people tried to win by trying to kill each other, so I added a rule that there must be 2 players alive at all times or the game is over as madness consumes the last remaining survivor!
Anyway, good job on the production of your prototype! And good luck with your game in the future. My advice is to decide your target audience, and it doesn't hurt to mention that when you submit to a contest (so maybe the judges can consider that even if THEY think it's not so hot, that it might be more appropriate for the TARGET AUDIENCE.)
Oh, and if your target audience IS youngsters, you might also want to make sure the theme is appropriate for that audience. I don't know what's in your game, but Julie mentioned cigarettes and grenades...
And if I misread the intent of the game (being something of a kids game) then I apologize - no offense intended. However if it's a game for adults, then Julie's comments about decisions is spot on.
- Seth
When I submitted my game I put an age category of adults 16+. So no, its not meant for kids. It has a silly theme set to it with a bit of graphic theme that is NOT meant for the little ones. I personally don't smoke or own a gun, but I feel the game is well themed for an audience that is not easily impressionable :-) From what I saw @ KublaCon I see that my demographic audience really is a small one.
Thanks again for the helpful comments and suggestions seth! :-)
quote feature
The starting tag should not have a / ... "[/quote]" is how you END a quote, you start it by leaving the / out - so it's just "[quote ]"
Just wanted to chime in—I was
Just wanted to chime in—I was at the Kublacon contest presentation, too. I didn't get to play any of the games (I was just a spectator) but I was as blown away as everyone else by your prototype. Magnificent!
This was obviously a good thing for you, since it may well result in your getting work from Z-Man, and perhaps others if word spreads. But since a lot of inexperienced designers read this site, I'd like to point out (to them, not to you!) that a prototype so amazingly over-produced is a waste of time and effort for anyone who is mainly interested in selling a game to a publisher. An eye-popping prototype is good as an item in an artist/illustrator/graphic designer's portfolio; and it's good if it's a step along the way to self-publishing a high-quality game. But if you are hoping to license your game design to a publisher, it only needs to be playable. It doesn't need to be pretty, because the publisher will hire professionals to do that.
Again, great piece of work, and congratulations on your success at Kublacon!
:-)
Thanks for the kind words Rick. It looks like my prototype will end up in my portfolio :-)
Maybe when I get a good photo web album going of all the card images, I will post a link here for anyone who is interested in seeing them.