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Artist or game development company?

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boardgamegeezer
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Joined: 12/31/1969

Should I get an artist to do graphics for cards and board then get cards board printed source game parts etc OR use development co like

http://www.grandprixintl.com/custom_manu.html
Anyone used Grand prix INT.?

Tell us about it if you have.

Chip
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Artist or game development company?

I've used Grand Prix for components, but not game development. They've been helpful and provided timely service at a reasonable price.

As for development kinds of stuff, I personally have typically developed my games independent from the company that ultimately manufactures them. I just find it easier to define exactly what I want, then go find the company(s) that will manufacture or provide components for me.

I guess the up side to using a development company that could also manufacture for you is that they would likely know better perhaps what size cards to use, what kind of box insert you should have, what components make sense, etc. They could take these considerations into account when they developed the layout details of the game. When I created my first game, my printer was fortunately quite helpful on this front. I needed cards for my game, but didn't care really about the exact size. I needed pawns, but didn't really care about the precise size...and so on. I knew what I wanted my game to look like and what overall components I'd need, but my printer worked through many of the details with me.

I knew very little about the printing world, and still don't for that matter. With my more recent games though, I've defined everything then gone and found suppliers.

When I make a game, I tend to think of three types of design. There are the
1) mechanics of the game. This certainly is what much of the discussion here on the BGDF is all about. There is also the

2) aesthetics of the game. This is all about the art and design layout of the game - board, box, etc. This doesn't get as much attention on the BGDF at mechanics, but still comes up quite frequently. The third design element, which is often overlooked, but very important I think if you're looking to publish is

3) design for manufacturability. This is about making physical tradeoffs - because of cost, some sort of size constraint or limitation, component availability, or perhaps simply to make a game easily shippable, etc. The more games I make with the intention of publishing, the more design for manufacturability becomes important. This is the realm I think a development company can be most helpful. (Realize I'm speculating here because I personally haven't used one.)

Chip

HRPuffenstuf
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Joined: 12/31/1969
GPI

I'm in the final 1.5 months of having my the final games shipped from China to my house in TX. I have used Grand Prix from day one and have only good things to say. My project manager found a freelance artist to do the hand illustrations for the game board and box cover. This illustrator has done work for Hasbro and it honestly looks like any other professional Hasbro game on the retail shelves at Target, Wal-Mart etc. My approach to the my game is I want a single point of contact that can help me bring my game to market from idea to finished product. For those willing to work each area on their own to create the game, my hat is off to you. I am a newbie in this and want someone who is professional and will hold my hand through the whole process.

When my game is available, you'll hear ir first and see it here on BGDF and can decide whether you like Grand Prix's efforts. I persoanlly have been amazed what my creation is turning into.

boardgamegeezer
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Artwork design important

Thats right

I have been looking all over Google for game parts and they are pretty simple things too with a lot of headache.
dvelopment companies of course handle all this and the artwork.
Artwork is extremely important as to someone getting their money out or not also wording of how the game plays etc.

This is why Im wondering about development companies as they are supposedly professional at what they do that is if they email you :))))))))))))
But Im scared they cost thousands you know.
However if you dont get a product right it will not sell will it?

Board game artists too are hard to find or is it me?

I would have thought they would advertise their talents here but I cannot find many posts I know one or two here say they are designers.
Im wondering too the time limit of companies like Grand Prix how long they take from concept to prototype to shipped games?
BGG

HRPuffenstuf
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Joined: 12/31/1969
gpi

my game has been right under a year in the making with GPI and it's almost done. Longer if you figure in my Googling everything and working on the game itself. I will say that when you see a project from start to finish, you respect every step, the supply chain etc. Only you can decide how much to invest and what you're trying to get out of this. Good luck.

HR Puff

jwalduck
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Joined: 09/06/2011
Artist or game development company?

BGDF is not the place to find artists, simply because they do not seem to hang out here. My suggestion would be to go looking at forums for artists.

You could start with conceptart.org or sumea.com.au (Australian). Artists on these sites usually not pros and are at all levels. The idea of artist's forums is to post art, so you can see what people are capable of. If you like someone's style you could approach them.

Of course if you do this, or hire an artist through other means, you are going to have to know exactly what you need in your finished art (subject, resolution, size, file type) and come up with a brief for them. This will depend a lot on what the art is being used for. It can be all too easy to get something which looks really good but is the wrong dimensions, resolution, whatever and basically wasted effort.

Zzzzz
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Artist or game development company?

I tend to agree with jwalduck, many artists do not visit BGDF, though there are members of this site who do have art skills, though come to think of it, I have not seem them around lately. Maybe they are just to busy doing artwork to worry about us game designers!! ;)

So maybe one of those members will respond to your post, but in the meantime, I have meet a few people that show off a lot of their work over at http://www.deviantart.com/

I dont have the contact information on me for the specific people, but when I have a chance I will try to track down the various business cards I have. But I would suggest that you browse around that site to find an artist that appeals to your style.

As with the other sites jwalduck mention, this site contains artist with all different levels and sets of skills. And as I said I have meet a few (GenCON and other conventions) and prices can range from $20 for a simple CCG card image to $3000 for those top notch masterpieces.

OutsideLime
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Artist or game development company?

I would have responded (as one of the artists that frequent the boards) but I have already promised art to several other BGDF members and didn't want to get in over my head with more promises... only so many hours in the day, after all. Here's a link to a gameboard I comped up for jv222's smooth Swarm game (check out his online playtester, it is coming along very nicely):

http://zygotemusic2.perception.net/uploaded/swarm_board_1.jpg

and a character comp for Stynxx9000's Mi Gato game that I'm sure you all fondly remember:

http://zygotemusic2.perception.net/uploaded/gato.jpg

Aaaanyway, there are a few of us here... I'm always happy to take on an interesting project, but anything too huge is kind of, well, impossible to fit in to my schedule. If something manageable catches my notice, then I'll send a PM to the designer and see if they are interested in my help.

~Josh

boardgamegeezer
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Deviant art

Nice art

Yep I know Deviant art visit it once a week or so.
I emailed a few people who have published games on the market now, asking about who did their art and only one has replied they are very nice to do that the other s I guess were thinking hey if their game gets on the market they will be competing with mine kind of thing which is silly really as LOTS of games are published every year.
Artists should be mentioned for the game as its art after all.
BGG

seo
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Artist or game development company?

OutsideLime wrote:
and a character comp for Stynxx9000's Mi Gato game that I'm sure you all fondly remember:

http://zygotemusic2.perception.net/uploaded/gato.jpg

Maybe it's just my connection, but the file seems to be broken.
Nice work on the Swarm board!

I'm another of the artists in the forum, but right now am a bit overloaded, so at least until mid october it's no new projects for me. :-(

Seo

boardgamegeezer
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Do it all?

So GDI take about a year to finalise everything from start to finish?
Do they ask for money first?

How much do they charge on average to develop a simplish game not too many parts?

I have my own ideas how a game should look so hopefully they will listen to some of my babble on how it should look too if I take them on.

BGG

FastLearner
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Artist or game development company?

I have graphic design skills and am available for projects. I am not an illustrator, however, and would need to hire out illustrations. Incorporating them into the design, and even art directing the process, however, is part of my skillset. I can provide some prototype game examples if you're interested.

I have been in graphic design for nearly 20 years now, and am very familiar with boardgame design and printing and finishing processes. I can help select printing and finishing service companies and can help you work with them, or alternately, help you work knowledgeably with a full-service provider as a consultant.

-- Matthew Frederick

braincog
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Re: GPI

HRPuffenstuf wrote:
I'm in the final 1.5 months of having my the final games shipped from China to my house in TX. I have used Grand Prix from day one and have only good things to say.

What do you intend to do with your games once they arrive at your house, besides replace your sofa, dining room table, and bed frame with versions made from stacked game boxes? :-) Aren't you doing about 5,000 copies? Any reason in particular you are not going to use GPI's fulfillment / warehousing services (or is it just cost)? Are you planning to work with any other firms to help you with sales representation and marketing, or are you doing that all on your own?

GPI was among my top three final picks for potential manufacturers, but I ended up going with another firm that was 1) just a bit cheaper, 2) was going to provide sales representation and order fulfillment with good terms. Although I did all the graphics and design for my game myself, I'd have no clue what to do with a bunch of games once they arrived at my door, so I'm really curious what you have planned.

Cheers,
Bill

HRPuffenstuf
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Artist or game development company?

I hadn't priced any warehousing out. I do know I will be sick of looking at boxes: however, I believe I have an item that will sell. I want control over the boxes initially until I get my system down and then I'll start considering storage. I have already 10 committments from toy stores to start stocking the game when available and I have interest from a MARQUIS toy store (I won't jinx myself). I actually have a plan on moving the games so I'm not considering any manufacturers reps at the moment. My four P's for making my game successful: 1. Perception (idea) 2. Plan 3. Product 4. Persistence. My game was designed with a Wal-Mart in mind which is why I'm batting 100%: The game looks professional and is awesome. The retailers see that. My web site is almost live and when I get the games...it's off to the races.

HR Puff

braincog
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Artist or game development company?

HRPuffenstuf wrote:
I have already 10 committments from toy stores to start stocking the game when available and I have interest from a MARQUIS toy store (I won't jinx myself). I actually have a plan on moving the games so I'm not considering any manufacturers reps at the moment.

Hey that's great! Looking forward to seeing your game and website when ready. How did you get the "committments" that you have? Are they local stores that you visited with a prototype? Did you cold call buyers at retail outlets?

My game is also a mass-market concept - an adult party / social interation game - that could fit among the Taboos, Scattegories, Trivial Pursuits and Craniums at the local department store, so hopefully...

I've only have a basic shell of a website up right now (http://www.braincog.com), but if you click on the "Portrayal" link you can see a bunch of detail about our game. I should have the online store up in a few weeks with some other information to handle whatever tiny volume of direct sales I can generate on my own.

Bill

boardgamegeezer
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Joined: 12/31/1969
After production

Braincog

Good luck with Portrayal- like it

Silly idea to have 5000 games in a house. I will use fulfillment storage.
I think games need to be temperature controlled too so leaving in a house for weeks months would be no good at all.

What will I do when I have all stock ready?

WEBSITE, write to Boardgames.com, write to stores, go to game fairs etc.

Quote

GPI was among my top three final picks for potential manufacturers, but I ended up going with another firm that was 1) just a bit cheaper, 2) was going to provide sales representation and order fulfillment with good terms. Although I did all the graphics and design for my game myself, I'd have no clue what to do with a bunch of games once they arrived at my door, so I'm really curious what you have planned.

It would be helpful to know who are the best and economical people to go to.

HRPuffenstuf
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Joined: 12/31/1969
committments

I work for a computer distributor and cover TX and OK. Whenever I travel to Houston, Austin etc., I take my fully functional sample that was made by GPI. I stop in every Learning Express and independent toy store. I give them price and walk them through the game. Since I have no track record with them yet, I am offering to consign the games this Christmas. The way I look at it, I will have already bought the 5,000 games so what's the big deal to consign 12 games if that means I'm hooking a retailer. They as a result feel there is nothing to lose. I'm building my retailer base one store at a time.

In the meantime, I am awaiting my games so i can send samples to the buyers for the major stores (since I only have one functional prototype, I can only show "local" stores my game) The power of a demonstration can't be topped! I have tons of ideas on how to get my game out: however, working a full time job makes it difficult. My plan is to build a solid base and then go after the big boys (once I have a track record). I might change that slightly if I get restless: however, that's my plan :) Good luck on your game and email me for ideas as I might do the same.

Scott

boardgamegeezer
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Build

The only way to do it.

Tell people about yur creation.
Get a wesite for easy buying.
Think about dropshipping for retailers too.
Once it gets going from snowball to meteorite then you got power.
Do not forget word of mouth if your game is good people will tell their friends etc like network marketing 4x4x4x4 soon builds to thousands.
Easy said very hard to do in real life.
Then the big boys will come running.
But you might NOT want to sell the idea then.

BGG

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