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Empanadas of DOOM!!!!

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Midnight_Carnival
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Just an idea I'm playing with in the very rudimentary phase of game design, was interested in checking whether anyone had insights or suggestions which could see this grow.

Backstory> you are a humble empanada salesman trying to make a living and God willing, a profit on the streets of a nameless Latin American Country. You have a mobile stall which you move around the course and sell your wares. Competition among empanada salesmen in this unnamed city in this unnamed country is literally cut-throat.

Mechanics> The game works something like a mixture of Monopoly and Settlers of Catan with Sweeny Todd overtones. You have to move through the mostly 1/way course of a city (with alternate routes presenting themselves in places). Your resources are Maize, Vegetables and Meat, we all know that dodgy emapnada salesmen NEVER change their oil and fuel to cook the empanads is - well it's probably best you don't ask.

Some squares on the stylised city course have permanent structures built on them, there is also a seedy "downtown" area which is fixed. Structures include shops which sell maize and veg, fresh produce markets which only sell veg, butchers who sell meat, the church which sell nothing and won't let you sell outside it unless it is a Sunday and the hardware store which sells upgrades for you stall including better hand to hand weapons.

You have the option each turn to move or sell, you can't do both - if you are on a shop square you can buy or move, they don't want you selling your empanadas outside their fine establishment.

The longer you stay in one place, the harder it can be to sell for several reasons. The city is divided into a few sections which constitute different environments [downtown being one already mentioned] you and your rivals can [when, where, why?] draw cards which have 2 effects, 1 private and 1 public, the effects are restricted to an are of the city but they last a number of turns. Disease and murders can reduce your reputation in an area even if you are not responsible for these things. There is also a Polica affectionately know as the Popo which moves about and cards can allow people to move him about, he can be bribed by players after which he is loyal to them until a higher offer is made otherwise he is fairly diligent in his work. If the Popo catches you murdering someone, regardless of how much you've paid him, he will bust your operation. Mr P never goes into the downtown area, which is gangland, instead players must pay protection money not to get knifed, - um alternative sources of meat are also available here more easily and cheaply and there is a mobile "chop shop" which sells meat really, really cheaply but you might cause a typhoid pandemic if you buy it or something. You can't always find the "chop shop" though.

Going veg only is an option to save money but since a good empanada salesman never declares what's in his empanads, veg empanadas are viewed as "cheap" by the locals and your reputation in the area falls if you only sell healthier vegan emapandas for too long!

There is a [yet unfinished] system of combat for hinting dogs, humans and for killing off other empanada salesmen if you move onto the same square as them.

You can also get hotsauce which helps a lot!

No llamas were harmed in the making of this game, any thoughts, comments or suggestions?

chris_mancini
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Ha very funny theme! The only

Ha very funny theme! The only thing I can think that's a possible detriment is the "killing" of other empanada salesmen; seems like an unneccessary length to go to just to sell more items. Poisoning their materials however...that seems more thematically logical, and can cause a lot of interesting issues for players that take effect over a period of the game, as opposed to the finality of "kill." This also not only affects the saleman/players, but also the NPCs who are your customers; no one wants to buy empanadas from a stand that's become known to make you sick, so how do you get your customers back???

Perhaps the poisoning of the food is done in secret; players don't know when their food has been tainted, and only find out once people start getting sick? This may require a "mayor" role, or someone who knows everything that's going on in order to track the players and their actions...just seemed interesting to have that "aw, crap...I've been poisoned!" moment of realization, then causing the players to have to think about how long it's been, how many customers may have been affected, etc.

The theme also opens up some other nice extensions if the game becomes popular; hot dog stands in NYC, Sonora dogs in LA, cheesesteak stands in Philly...

Tedthebug
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I like that poisoning suggestion Chris made

If you decide to go ahead with it & do need the mayor role look at integrating an app to handle that role as an addition. That way players will have the choice of someone taking on the Mayor role or downloading the app to handle that side of it. Just make the app optional & not mandatory so it is an added benefit rather than a necessity.

Midnight_Carnival
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Mayor?

Sorry, I don't quite follow the mayor role bit.
I actually like the idea of not always having to fight other empanada salesmen to the death over a street corner, I think that there should be a number of options avialible including sabotage (as suggested), stealing his materials and making a run for it, publicly slandering his empanadas or planding drugs on his stand and calling in the popo. You get the drugs from downtown with the use of a certain card. The gang boss gives you drugs to sell along with the empanadas but this makes your reputation go to hell and also, they kind of don't like it if you tell them that you don't want to sell their drugs anymore, they would rather you stopped selling empanadas!

Also... I don't think I'm ruining it by telling you this, I'm likely not to finish this anytime soon, but the way I'm planning the game, empanada salesmen do a lot better if they actually take steps to improve the neighbourhoods. Fewer incidents mean fewer brushes with the law and customers taking longer to smell a rat {or a dog, a donkey which has seen better days, something which wandered into the traffic, a buzzard "pollo sinor, pollo!", etc...}

I think that you should be able to kill other players but perhaps by 3rd party agent, like a hitman you hire in the downtown area. Killing humans and selling their flesh as a cheap filling for empanadas should remain an option though, just to add... atmosphere.

are the hotdogs really that scary?

chris_mancini
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Sounds like you need to

Sounds like you need to refine your theme, as now you mention drugs, murder and cannibalism in a theme that sounds like it should be inherently light-hearted. How street food vendors fit in with those thematic elements, I don't know...but street food as a theme is a rich one with a lot of possibility, as it's so different from culture to culture.

The notion of using less-than "quality" materials in your empanadas is fun and offers chance for comedic gross-out moments in play (the idea of serving roadkill is great, if the mechanics work around it!) so there's a lot of good notes that are building the theme...again just needs more thought as to what experience/story you want players to go through.

Midnight_Carnival
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Empanadas of...

DOOM!

No, no, not in the slightest.

PS, any comments directed against myself or my views/morality can be PM'd to me

chris_mancini
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I offered no comment against

I offered no comment against you or your morality; it's a question of theming. There is no shortage of games with darker themes, I have nothing against those, and enjoy many of them. Don't take anything said on this forum personally, it's all about the game ideas, and people will have differing opinions.

Perhaps it's the juxtaposition of the seemingly light theme of selling street snacks, overlaid with a dark and seedy town in which you're selling. The once happy vendors have been forced to make some unsettling decisions just to keep their business alive...I'm just looking for the continuity in what you've written as the setting for your game idea.

Tedthebug
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Reminds me a bit of discworld

The whole description of empanadas reminds me of CMOT Dibbler on the streets of ankh morpork

Midnight_Carnival
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Oh yes indeed.

CMOT Dibbler was part of my inspiration only it is more a case of cutting other people's throats in this game.

C: I merely suggested that if that line of conversation continued, particular if I were to respond in a less brief manner, with the same points being made that the thread would become about morality etc and possibly by extension about my character (an exaggeration but...)not about my game.

I do not know about selling street snacks being light hearted. For me it is about an unethical 'small time' businessman who wants to make a profit regardless of how many innocents he hurts or kills, or how many (civil and moral)laws he violates.

I'm going to open a thread on the watercooler (hope that is the right place)about drugs and morality in games because I was impressed by your maturity and doubt it will degenerate into a rather pointless flamewar.

As for the theme, feel free to make a 'slightly gross but light-hearted' game about selling street snack which doesn't involve perverse subject matter. I'm sure your game will attract a following but it won't be Empanadas of DOOM.

;)

Tedthebug
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Gradations?

Why not let players play straight or move towards dodgy stuff? Playing safe is slow, boring & hard to win, taking risks makes it a bit more exciting & the rewards are better. Tempt people to gradually do worse & worse things to get better & better rewards with greater & greater risk. If it's done slowly enough some players may not even notice that they crossed a line that they normally would have objected to in a game.

Midnight_Carnival
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great minds...

That was my original idea, only I had in mind that although it will be boring and hard work to be the 'goody two shoes' who only uses safe meat or no meat in his empanadas, doesn't sabotage anyone else and hands out pamphlets about heart disease (increasing public acceptance of veg empanadas), if you can somehow survive the initial dogshow of a carange fest characterising the early game with more than 6 players on the board, then the others who have obligations to mob bosses and criminal ties will find it harder and harder to compete with or eliminate you.

Again, there should have been a tactical spoiler warning but as I said, it'll be a while before I'm in a position to make this game.

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