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modular board game with an interesting player dynamic

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jpetkus01
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Joined: 05/04/2012

Game idea:
Story: 12 people somehow related to old man Leroy are invited to his mansion for a reading of the will. In this reading an heir is named. The heir will become fabulously wealthy...upon leaving the house. And, the will stipulates, that in case the heir dies, there have been subsequent heirs named.

I would really love any feedback on my idea and maybe some tips on how to get a prototype going. I have this outline and that's it as of right now. I don't really know what to do next...
Pieces:
15 upper floor room tiles
15 lower floor room tiles
Study tile
Stair tile
Foyer tile
23 trap cards
11 3d traps
9 trap tokens for foyer
23 evade cards
12 people
12 people cards with name and flavor text
12 people cards with just pictures
Each player (2-6 ) gets cards with people on them. These cards should be kept hidden. The first room tile is a study with a table and a large empty picture frame. The photo cards of the characters are shuffled and put into the frame. The top one is flipped over to face outwards. This person is the current heir. The objective of the game is for the heir to get out of the house. Everyone else is trying to kill them. When one heir dies the next card is flipped over revealing the next heir. When every character a player controls dies they are out of the game.
Game play progresses as follows. All the pieces start in the study upstairs. This tile will be larger than the others and should have a table and a fireplace. The turn order should be randomly assigned. Each turn gets a movement turn and an effect turn. On the movement turn the player rolls two dice which determines the movement of two characters. He/She must designate which two characters will be moving this turn before they start moving them. The characters must move through doorways and flip over random upper level tiles as they search for the stairs. Some rooms will have a Ω symbol which designates the player can pick up a evade card. Other rooms will have a Θ which signifies a trap has been sprung. The top card of the trap deck is reveled and placed in this room. If an evade card is drawn movement is not halted but when a trap is sprung it is. If a permanent trap is sprung, each character trying to go through the room must evade the trap. Then the player repeats this process with the other character they have designated. This continues until the heir is killed or escapes. Once the stairs are discovered the first floor landing must be placed on the board and first floor tiles must be flipped until the foyer is found. The Foyer is the way to escape.
Trap cards:
There are three different types of traps, permanent, one shot, and deadly.
PERMANENT
The permanent traps have corresponding 3d pieces that must be placed in the room once the card is drawn. The trap requires the player to roll a dice and beat a certain number to evade the trap.
Statue: roll higher than a 4, if do not evade character is killed.
Lasers: roll higher than a 3, if do not evade character is killed
Stairs: roll higher than a 3, if do not evade character loses turn.
Trap door: roll higher than a 5, if do not evade, character is trapped unless released by another player
Fire place: roll higher than a 3, if do not evade character loses a turn.
Slippery floor: roll higher than a 2, if do not evade character loses turn.
Deadly snake: roll higher than 4, if do not evade character is killed.
Pendulum: roll higher than a 3, if do not evade character is killed.
Sticky Floor: roll higher than a 2, if do not evade character movement is reduced by one.
Suit of Armor: roll higher than a 4, if do not evade character is killed.
Monster: roll higher than a 3, if do not evade character loses turn and monster moves to room in a random direction (cannot move into room with another permanent trap).

DEADLY:
These traps can only be played once but are always deadly. If this card is pulled and the player does not have an evade card or does not wish to use their evade card, the character is instantly killed. Other players may not play evade cards on deadly traps.

Weak floor (2)
Spiked walls (2)
Explosion (2)

ONE SHOT:
These traps work just like the permanent traps but they do not remain in the room once used.

Poison Gas: roll 4 or higher to evade (move out of room on evade) if do not evade lose a turn. (2)
Firecracker: roll 3 or higher to evade, if do not evade lose turn. (2)
Flash Grenade: roll 3 or higher to evade, if you do not evade movement is reduced by 1. (2)

Evade Cards:
These cards are drawn upon entering most rooms.
Anti-evade (adds a -1 to an evade roll) (2)
Bonus evade (adds +1 to an evade roll) (4)
Super Bonus Evade (adds +2 to an evade roll) (2)
Deadly Evade (evades only deadly traps) (2)
Instant evade (instantly evades any trap) (1)
Second chance (allows player to reroll the evade roll, but player must use second roll) (3)
Double speed (allows player to roll two dice to evade and choose whichever they want to use) (2)
Saving Light (instantly transports player into another room at random with no ill affect.) (1)
Instants (2 flash grenade, 2 firecracker, 2 poison gas)

Final room (Foyer)
The foyer will be a three by three grid and each time someone moves on a square they must roll a dice to see if the tile is trapped. An even number is not and odd number is. Then the player must try to roll higher than the number on the trap roll. When a tile is trapped it is trapped until the square in front of the door is trapped, or there is no path through the room.
The game ends when there is only one player left or when an heir leaves the house.

kos
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Joined: 01/17/2011
Exploring the house

I like the concept for the game, in particular that the players each control more than one character, so if their character gets killed they are not instantly out of the game.

There doesn't seem to be a lot of scope for player interaction in the game, unless I've misinterpretted something. In fact, it seems like the basic strategy would be:
- If I have the heir, make my other character(s) move ahead of him/her to clear the way.
- If I do not have the heir, move one square behind the heir.

If I don't have the heir I can't see any reason why I would want to move any of my characters at all other than to follow close behind the heir. Exploring the house puts my characters in danger AND helps the heir to win the game, so there's no incentive to do that.

Consider if there is some way to encourage player interaction and/or provide incentive for non-heir players to explore the house. Beware of player interaction that involves attacks against a target character though, because I suspect that would simply devolve the game into "bash the leader".

As for prototyping, just start with paper and cardboard if you haven't already done so. This will help to show the physical constraints on the game. For example, the description says that the people cards are placed on the starting tile. If these were normal playing cards (3.5x2.5 inches), and you wanted some more space on the tile, then the tile would need to be at least 4x4 inches. If all the tiles are this size then you'd probably need a playing space of 24 x 24 inches for each floor (minimum size would be 16x16 inches, if the house is always square).

Once you've done a cardboard prototype and plenty of playtesting, you could consider moving on to a prettier printed version. E.g. a service like TheGameCrafter could handle all the components you've listed (with a little bit of tweaking).

All the best,
kos

pelle
pelle's picture
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Joined: 08/11/2008
I also find it

I also find it interesting.

Unlike kos I prefer games with direct player interaction, and it seems like this game would be perfect for that, if balance/strategy problems can be solved. Let players set traps or even play cards to directly attack other characters would be fine by me. It sounds terribly boring to just look at the heir character explore the house, hoping for a trap to catch him.

Add some card(s) that let players peek at a remote floor tile, to gain information other players do not have, and tricks like that, to make the game a bit more interesting, without really adding any complexity?

Maybe there is a way to remove player elimination? Maybe have a pool of inactive characters at first that just hangs around in some room or something (well, that doesn't sound ideal...) and when a player loses a character a new one can be drawn? That way everyone will have a character right until the end of the game at least.

Did you playtest this at all? One thing that occurs to me is that you have a lot of very detailed information about the game, but not even images of a prototype? I would mostly have a pile of blank cards at this stage, since it is impossible to know what cards/traps will make for good balance.

The Deadly traps btw seems like a subtype of One Shot traps. I think by having three types of traps with specific rules, that is at least 50 % more complicated than only two types. Seems like there is really only one type of map, you just need a small icon to say if the trap is one-time (and "deadly" traps can be both one-time and permanent anyway, so that is only a characteristic derived from its effect, not a type of trap really).

3D traps, are those supposed to be plastic bits? I hope there is a way to print the characteristics of the trap on them anyway, because I would not want to refer to a separate table to look up how deadly each trap is. A big benefit of using cardboard tokens instead is that you can print all important information on the trap (also then you can draw traps from a cup, and simply place it on the board, or discard it, rather than having to first draw a card and then try to find the 3D model).

jpetkus01
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Joined: 05/04/2012
:)

thank you so much for your response. i didnt notice until you pointed it out about the lack of player dynamic. i think im going to try to find a way to encourage players to keep the people they control secret. thus the heir player couldn't just explore the house with their lackeys. i think ideally the other characters would want to explore the house since the death rate should be pretty high and there should hopefully be a quick heir turnover. that would be where the strategy of getting your characters close to the exit without being to conspicuous would come in. I liked the suggestion another poster made about allowing characters to set traps on other players. also, i can see that my idea might involve too much space so i think i may downgrade to tokens or figures instead of cards. again thank you so much for the input. I think the peek cards are a great idea and yeah the three types of traps are pretty unecessary now that i think of it. the only reason i thought 3d models could be fun is because if the character doesnt evade the trap you could actually kill their token ex. drop the statue on them or make them fall down the stairs. but if i am going for a more serious gamer audience i suppose that little kitschy bit isnt as important. :)

kos
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Joined: 01/17/2011
Incentives

jpetkus01 wrote:
i think im going to try to find a way to encourage players to keep the people they control secret. thus the heir player couldn't just explore the house with their lackeys. i think ideally the other characters would want to explore the house since the death rate should be pretty high and there should hopefully be a quick heir turnover. that would be where the strategy of getting your characters close to the exit without being to conspicuous would come in.

Hidden information (such as not knowing who controls each character) would probably benefit the game. I'm not sure how you would implement it in a board game (as a computer game this kind of hidden information would be easier to implement), but it's an interesting challenge.

I still can't see the incentive for non-heir players to explore the house. Even with secret control of the characters, I know that I don't have the heir. Given that exploring the house has a high death rate, the optimal strategy is clearly to do nothing at all until the heir kills himself. Given that one of the winning conditions is "last man standing", the optimal strategy is still to do nothing and wait for everybody else to kill themselves. However, that kind of strategy doesn't make a very interesting game -- especially if more than one player employs the same strategy.

Examples of incentives to explore the house:
1 - To win the game
2 - To pick up useful items which will help me win the game
3 - To avoid danger

Incentive 1 is only valid if I have the heir, thus it is irrelevant to everybody else.
Incentive 2 does not appear to be part of the game.
Incentive 3 does not exist in the game, and in fact the reverse is true - exploring the house puts me in danger so it's a double-disincentive.

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In relation to Incentive 2, granted in your description there are Evade cards, but these are only useful when I step into a trap -- and even then many of the cards provide only a marginal benefit or only in specific circumstances. When faced with the choice of "Risk dying on a trap in order to pick up a card which slightly reduces my chance of dying on a trap", the clever choice is "Don't step on the trap in the first place." To make the payoff worthwhile you would need to change the sentence to "Risk dying on a trap in order to pick up a card that significantly improves my changes of winning the game."

Example: To escape from the house to win the game, the character must be the heir and be carrying both the Red and Blue keys. The Red and Blue keys are cards shuffled into the Evade deck, so players must explore to find them. Characters can pass items to other characters in the same room. When a character dies their items are dropped in the room.

See how the example above automatically creates an incentive to explore even if I am not the heir, because I want to get hold of the keys immediately so that when the heir dies I'm ready to leave and if somebody else finds the keys before me it's going to be harder to get them once I do become the heir. In this example you might need some kind of direct attack system to let players forcibly take items from other players (either stealing items or hastening the target character's demise).

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Another way to get people to explore the house is through Incentive 3 - avoiding danger. This changes the incentive statement to "Risk dying on a trap because staying still involves certain death."

Example: At the completion of the reading of the will the room starts to fill with poison gas and will slowly spread throughout the house. Place a Gas token in the Study. A room can have at most 3 Gas tokens. At the end of your turn, any of your characters in a room with 3 Gas tokens dies. At the end of your turn, you must place one Gas token either in a room that has a Gas token or is adjacent to a room that has a Gas token.

See how the example above automatically creates an incentive to explore the house, because anybody who stands around in the gas is going to die. Letting the player choose which room to put a Gas token in is preferrable (in my opinion) to a deterministic or random mechanic because it creates player interaction -- on my turn I'm going to spread the Gas in such a way as to try to maximise the threat to the other characters while minimising the threat to my own. In this example a direct attack system is probably not necessary, since players can indirectly "attack" using the spread of the gas.

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I'm not saying that you should use either of the examples above. I'm just staying that you could consider the effect that the rules have on player behavior. The rules of the game should naturally provide incentives to play the way that you want the game to be played, and in the interests of fun-ness should naturally provide disincentives to boring behavior. In this case "do nothing" is boring behavior, so you need to make sure that "do nothing" is not the optimal strategy to win.

Regards,
kos

jpetkus01
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Joined: 05/04/2012
again thanks

your suggestions are so helpful and i can definitely see what you mean about the not exploring. i like the gas idea but i think i might change it to the monster trap since i already have the mechanic for that figured out. also that way when a player puts the monster in a room with other characters the characters need to evade it to leave the room instead of just if you stay in the room you die. also this would make it much more interesting since the monster may move from the room. I also like the keys and i was thinking about making more of the evade cards helpful.

KAndrw
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Joined: 08/20/2008
If each player had (say)

If each player had (say) three character cards face-down in front of them, and three numbered pawns, they could move those pawns around without anybody knowing exactly who they are.

When an heir is revealed, the player controlling that character would reveal the card, and replace the numbered pawn with a character-specific pawn. Perhaps revealed characters could have a useful ability, such as moving quicker or searching more safely. You could even have the option of revealing a character prematurely, so your could use their ability.

What about having the heir PLUS the next two successors be known information - but only the heir is forced to reveal themselves. This creates a reason for other characters to get into specific positions - especially if there are cards/props only usuable by the heir (perhaps a voiceprint-activated dumbwaiter, which can be used to travel to aanother dumbwaiter location - then is out of action).

I would make every room searchable. Each room has a number of stars printed on it. To search the room, roll 1D6, and if the results PLUS the number of stars is 6 or lower, the search is successful - draw a card, AND place a star token on the room. This makes any subsequent searching more difficult.

If each trap card had a room (or rooms) printed on it, and trap cards were part of the search deck, the players could use traps to slow each other down. On his turn, a player could play a trap from hand, face-down in front of them. The trap can be revealed when triggered, on another player's turn, and that player must resolve it before proceeding.

There would be two types of trigger:
TRIGGER: ENTRY
TRIGGER: SEARCH

If a trap card were specific to only one room, and triggered on search, it would have a powerful effect. A trap usable on any upstairs room, triggered on entry, would have a minor (or easily avoided effect).

The search deck would also have helpful events like avoiding a trap or moving extra spaces.

For me, wound counters on characters would be preferable to instant death. By default, Characters would be able to sustain 3 wounds (for instance) before death. The burly wrestler could be revealed when he has three wounds, to show everybody that his increased resiliance keeps him alive until 4 wounds are taken.

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