Hi!
At what time in the design process should I put my game on boardgamegeek.com? My game has been play tested pretty much by myself and friends but I have not done enough "blind play testing" yet. I also don't know if I should try to sell it to a publisher or use kickstarter to publish it myself.
Is it a bad thing to put it on boardgamegeek now if I intend to approach a publisher with my game idea at a later stage?
Having an entry in BGG doesn't have any bearing on whether or not a publisher sees or approves it. In fact, a game in your state is bound to have a lot of changes from now until you have a published game (even the name), so it would be a waste of time to make an entry.
But I do understand the nature of this query. It's a hard road, but you will have to approach the publisher directly before BGG. Most likely (at least in my case), the publisher will make the entry for you when the game is in a solid place. There are so many...self-proclaimed designers that if they put in all of their games that were in prototype form, BGG would be flooded with games that aren't even out (I'm sure there are many games like that now).
However, if you're planning to do something like KS, I'd really really make sure you have all your ducks in a row (manufacturing channels, quality control, shipping on lockdown, marketing strategies, along with an airtight game, etc.) before you even think of putting an entry on BGG.
I hate to rain on your parade, but you don't want to make an entry this early in development when you don't know if it's going to be published.
Either way, in my opinion, you've got a long way to go. Don't rush it.
It's better to be safe than sorry...aka better to put a published game on BGG than to put a game on there that may end up not being taken by anyone and be on BGG as reminder of your failure. I myself asked that question in regards to my game, and I just trusted that they would do the right thing. They were right cause they wanted the right exposure at the right time, nothing too premature.
Can you tell us about the game? In might be interested in swapping playtesting or rule-reading efforts...
Shop around for a PUBLISHER first. I went through the process and it was "difficult" with poor communication - but at least TRY. Maybe you will find someone with the exact "niche" as your game - which can work out well...
After that, I would consider Kickstarter - if you really think that your game can succeed and is sufficiently entertaining. Then it gets tricky. Most games, BGG will reject unless they are DONE. Board game entries are USUALLY once the game is COMPLETED (and ready for SALE). But people have gotten around this, Jamey Steigmeir had a Scythe BGG entry ONE YEAR before the game was even "designed" and made. All he had was ONE (1) illustration.
But like other designers are saying, it would be STUPID to put BGG entries for all the Kickstarter and games that FAIL! So BGG policy is that the game MUST be ready for SALE...
So this is even AFTER a Kickstarter... Which could be a year away.
I think you have plenty of time to "fine tune" your game before approaching PUBLISHERS and then if necessary moving on the a KICKSTARTER. Once either of these is done, that's probably when someone will create a BGG entry.
MY PERSONAL TAKE on this is this: I want someone ELSE to create the BGG Game link for my game. That shows that enough people have played the game and there is sufficient recognition that SOMEONE (a GAMER) likes the game enough that he posts a GAME ENTRY for our game.
Cheers and good luck with your game!
When is a game ready for entry in the database?
A game is ready for entry when there is sufficient information available about it to describe the game's theme, game-play, and goal. For games produced by major publishers, this usually comes after a press release with information about these elements, or after the game is shown to reviewers who can write about these elements. But, when a publisher merely announces a game with scant information about these elements, the time is not yet ripe for game entry, as a "stub" entry is not sufficient.
For self-published games and user-designer efforts, a game is ready to be added to the BGG database after the game has undergone play-testing and is available in its final form. If details about the game are still being resolved and the rules are still being changed over the course of the play-testing, the game is not sufficiently finalized for a BGG entry.
You also need to enter yourself as a Game Designer in the database before you enter the game.
You should have a publisher (or self published) so that the Publisher is entered into the database.
If you have an artist or artists, they should be entered into the database.
If you have a website to link to that gets added.
My experience with adding all of these things to BGG says that it can take upwards of 2 months just to get everything approved, and THEN you can start adding pictures and more information to the entry.
It's a long, somewhat frustrating and poorly documented process but it's essentially a must for any game that is published or ready to publish.
From what you're saying, you're nowhere near making an entry yet. Get your game to it's final (or almost final) form first and ready to publish. Then worry about BGG entries.
Thanks to everyone for your response. I appreciate having several people comment, and I see everyone expressing virtually the same advice (to wait with BGG). Stagmaier was indeed one of the people who made me think that perhaps I should put it on boardgamegeek while its still in development. In this post he says: "As soon as you have a name and a somewhat accurate description of your game, claim your spot on BGG." But he may not have meant it the way I interpreted it.
It would be great to swap play-testing and rule reading efforts. But my rules only exist in Swedish so far, so I need some time to translate them to English. And I'm not sure if this game is print & play friendly enough (it has about 100 square shaped tiles and 36 hexagons, so making a prototype takes some time). But I will make it available in time, and see if someone wants to test it.
Yeah, I think that in isolation, that quote suggests that you post your game on BGG fairly early in the development process, which goes directly against the BGG rules/advice.
In the context of the whole post, maybe he means that you do this as one of the early steps when you are setting up your Kickstarter. Certainly, by the time you go live, you probably want the BGG page to be active.
Actually, Jamey's comments afterwards ("it's still worth a shot") suggest that his intent was to put games up while they are still in development. I would humbly suggest that this might be one of the rare occasions when he is not on the money.
Having a name and an accurate description, doesn't mean that's _all_ you need to have ;)
First impressions are important. You do want to show an appealing product which looks finished to people who are going to visit your page. If someone opens your page and sees an early prototype, instead of a game, chances are, they're not gonna visit your page again.
As for the quote, yep, you want to post your finished game on BGG as soon as you have one. Well ahead of potential KS.
Do you have any information about the game? It would be easier to give feedback with knowing more about what kind of game you have there.
Thanks for your feedback also ElKobold. I will first decide if I should attempt KS or if a publisher is a better route (before thinking of BGG).
The links, if you missed them, are:
Homepage: http://www.krakatoa.add.se
Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/Krakatoa-the-Lost-Island-857968877562397
I checked on this a while back, I can't remember how to find the information but the BGG policy when I checked was that new indie developers generally aren't allowed BGG pages until they've got a product available to buy. Major companies can get them for pre-release stuff, since it's more realistic to expect them to get into production.
This ^^---I concur---^^.
Otherwise the database of 75,000+ entries would be 2x as large with all of the games that are TRYING to Kickstart. Last time I check BGG was for games that have SUCCESSFULLY Kickstarted and have been SOLD.
That's how I vv---translate---vv:
"For self-published games and user-designer efforts, a game is ready to be added to the BGG database after the game has undergone play-testing and is available in its FINAL form. If details about the game are still being resolved and the rules are still being changed over the course of the play-testing, the game is not sufficiently finalized for a BGG entry."
Ooops. Sorry, I must be blind. Will take a look :)
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Thanks for your response. I'm inclined to agree with you. I'm asking because I've read a few posts here and there urging designers to put games on bgg before everything is settled. But I've also read elsewhere that publishers are not happy about taking on a game if the designer already started marketing it himself. But I'll listen to your advice and stay cool until my game is closer to actually being published.