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Working out Kickstarter numbers?

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boardgameguru
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How do you work out Kickstarter numbers for game publishing?

let-off studios
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Wow.
questccg
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What numbers?

I think you'll need to be MORE SPECIFIC if you want anyone to give you some kind of answer that makes sense.

What "numbers" are you talking about?

  • Funding Goal
  • Manufacturing Costs
  • Shipping Rates
  • Add-ons
  • Pledge Tiers

Some more details in which area you are trying to get some answers...

boardgameguru
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questccg wrote:I think you'll

questccg wrote:
I think you'll need to be MORE SPECIFIC if you want anyone to give you some kind of answer that makes sense.

What "numbers" are you talking about?

+ Funding Goal
+ Manufacturing Costs
+ Shipping Rates
+ Add-ons
+ Pledge Tiers

Some more details in which area you are trying to get some answers...

Manufacturing costs great person.

Shipping is pretty easy right?

I have a very simple format just want to publish the game and possibly make some profit each game.

questccg
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To get you on your way!

boardgameguru wrote:
Manufacturing costs great person.

Shipping is pretty easy right?

I have a very simple format just want to publish the game and possibly make some profit each game.

#1: Don't be fooled - SHIPPING IS SOME SERIOUS SH!T!!! Many people who have done Kickstarters in the past, made blatant errors in their estimates and lost money because of shipping costs.

Figure that out FIRST - before you start KS-ing anything.

#2: Manufacturing... Try QPC (www.customizedplayingcards.com or
www.qpcgames.com) or AdMagic (www.admagic.com) ... those should be good start since they both have MOQ of 500 units. Lowest in the business.

boardgameguru
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questccg wrote:boardgameguru

questccg wrote:
boardgameguru wrote:
Manufacturing costs great person.

Shipping is pretty easy right?

I have a very simple format just want to publish the game and possibly make some profit each game.

#1: Don't be fooled - SHIPPING IS SOME SERIOUS SH!T!!! Many people who have done Kickstarters in the past, made blatant errors in their estimates and lost money because of shipping costs.

Figure that out FIRST - before you start KS-ing anything.

#2: Manufacturing... Try QPC (www.customizedplayingcards.com or
www.qpcgames.com) or AdMagic (www.admagic.com) ... those should be good start since they both have MOQ of 500 units. Lowest in the business.

I dont see how you can make errors with shipping?
I mean just go to the post office.

Should I refuse some countries like Russia perhaps?

questccg
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Umm...

The post office works for some formats ... but for others it may be worthwhile dealing with another shipping company like "Ship Naked" (www.shipnaked.com). There are others ... I'm not familiar with all of them, my Publisher is handling the distribution/shipping.

Read ALL of this: https://stonemaiergames.com/kickstarter/lessons/shipping-and-fulfillment/

You'll be better off when you get a better understanding about GLOBAL shipping.

boardgameguru
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questccg wrote:The post

questccg wrote:
The post office works for some formats ... but for others it may be worthwhile dealing with another shipping company like "Ship Naked" (www.shipnaked.com). There are others ... I'm not familiar with all of them, my Publisher is handling the distribution/shipping.

Read ALL of this: https://stonemaiergames.com/kickstarter/lessons/shipping-and-fulfillment/

You'll be better off when you get a better understanding about GLOBAL shipping.

Alright thanks

Glass shoe games
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I highly recommend you do a

I highly recommend you do a ton more research. I mean a ton. There are tons of great board game podcasts I would listen too.

mcobb83
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KS numbers can be challenging

KS numbers can be challenging - I highly recommend the blog referenced above.

In a nutshell, your funding goal needs to account for - the print run cost of the game; shipping to get the game from printer to fulfillment to backers; KS fees and merchant fees (for credit card transactions); taxes (which vary depending upon the country you are importing to); and a cushion to cover problems.

So in reality, you are looking at needing to do exactly what Glass Shoe Games says: a ton more research.

I Will Never Gr...
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boardgameguru wrote: Shipping

boardgameguru wrote:

Shipping is pretty easy right?

Oh good lord no .. not in the least!

Caveat: This depends on your game (size and weight of the box), where you plan on shipping it to and if you want to use tracked packages or not.

Shipping rates are the bane of many peoples existence and not at all easy once you get into international and/or larger packages (larger than say, a simple deck of cards or something that will fit into a USPS flat rate box).

I spent the better part of a month dealing with figuring out shipping and I still don't think I've got it down (and that's after several years of doing online retail as well).

questccg
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Positive SPIN

I Will Never Grow Up Gaming wrote:
...I spent the better part of a month dealing with figuring out shipping and I still don't think I've got it down (and that's after several years of doing online retail as well).

Don't discourage the poor guy. He wants to KS something simple (I think). Like a Deck of cards that fit in a 52 Standard Deck box... (Something like that???)

It's probably best if you explain what your game entails ... and then you can get better replies with more accurate information.

I already warned you that shipping can be a real problem... You seem to think the cost of USPS can cover the shipping. If so, you need to explain the format of the box you are planning on using.

I'll refrain from giving any additional comments, because I truly don't know the best fulfillment solution, shipping consolidator nor shipping broker. What I do know (from others) is that shipping is VERY TRICKY. And it depends a lot on the SIZE (Dimensions) and WEIGHT (Pounds or Kg) of your game (as IWNGUG has stated)...

boardgameguru
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Just a simple party board

Just a simple party board game about similar size and weight to Cranium Dark.

Anyone thought of shipping stock to Amazon fulfilment?

questccg wrote:
I Will Never Grow Up Gaming wrote:
...I spent the better part of a month dealing with figuring out shipping and I still don't think I've got it down (and that's after several years of doing online retail as well).

Don't discourage the poor guy. He wants to KS something simple (I think). Like a Deck of cards that fit in a 52 Standard Deck box... (Something like that???)

It's probably best if you explain what your game entails ... and then you can get better replies with more accurate information.

I already warned you that shipping can be a real problem... You seem to think the cost of USPS can cover the shipping. If so, you need to explain the format of the box you are planning on using.

I'll refrain from giving any additional comments, because I truly don't know the best fulfillment solution, shipping consolidator nor shipping broker. What I do know (from others) is that shipping is VERY TRICKY. And it depends a lot on the SIZE (Dimensions) and WEIGHT (Pounds or Kg) of your game (as IWNGUG has stated)...

questccg
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Heard of Amazon being used

boardgameguru wrote:
Anyone thought of shipping stock to Amazon fulfilment?

Yes I have heard of people using it - but I don't have any details (who, how it went, etc.) I just remember someone saying "they are using Amazon fulfillment".

Maybe one of the other designers knows of someone who used Amazon?!?!

krone9
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I sell stuff on Amazon (for

I sell stuff on Amazon (for something else, non games) - they aren't necessarily cheap, but they are very easy. Expect to pay roughly about 25% of retail price for listing fee and fulfilment.

If its just fulfilment, then the cost is a bit less I think - but not as much less as you'd think as on-amazon fulfilment gets you a much better price.

Personally I'd either find a chinese manufacturer and get them to do fulfilment or I'd sell on Amazon without the kickstarter.

Having not done a Kickstarter, but having done a fair bit of research since starting to design games, my first mistake was to think that Kickstarter would generate my purchasing audience. It won't.

I Will Never Gr...
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questccg wrote:I Will Never

questccg wrote:
I Will Never Grow Up Gaming wrote:
...I spent the better part of a month dealing with figuring out shipping and I still don't think I've got it down (and that's after several years of doing online retail as well).

Don't discourage the poor guy. He wants to KS something simple (I think). Like a Deck of cards that fit in a 52 Standard Deck box... (Something like that???)

Not looking to discourage but rather to encourage people to really look into shipping and all of it's variability. Shipping can (and has) bankrupt people if they don't do their homework and I'd rather not see that happen to anyone.

You need to know exactly what you're looking at (Dimensions of the shipping box, total weight and destinations) in order to even start to get a grasp on it. It's not just as simple as going to the post office.

If it's a Kickstarter, you also need to have those shipping costs included in the end price the backer will be paying up front. Nobody wants to be charged for shipping later in a second bill ("Oh hey, you gave us $X for the game .. I know it's a few months later, but now we need $Y for shipping thanks).

Quote:

I'll refrain from giving any additional comments, because I truly don't know the best fulfillment solution, shipping consolidator nor shipping broker. What I do know (from others) is that shipping is VERY TRICKY. And it depends a lot on the SIZE (Dimensions) and WEIGHT (Pounds or Kg) of your game (as IWNGUG has stated)...

If it's "similar" to Cranium Dark;
Product Dimensions 4.1 x 7.5 x 4.1 inches
Item Weight 1.5 pounds

This won't fit in a standard USPS flat rate box, so that means calculating shipping costs very carefully for a variety of destinations.

Personally, I would talk to one of the shipping/fulfillment services that deal with Kickstarters all the time such as Ship Naked, GamesQuest UK, Starlit Citadel, Funagain Games and more. Give them as much detail as possible and get a quote from them.

Regarding the rest;

1 - Determine the exact specs of your game and its components
2 - Put together an RFQ (Request for Quote) and send that to a half dozen manufacturers with a variety of quantities (500, 1000, 1500, 2000, 3000 are all good starting points) keeping in mind that many manufacturers won't do less than 1000 units (though some will) and the more you produce, the cheaper it is per unit.
3 - Get your shipping/fulfillment quotes
4 - Take your worst case scenario (the minimum you absolutely need to manufacture and ship your game to fulfillment) and determine the resulting cost per unit.
5 - Multiply that cost by at least 4 (more likely 5 or 6x, but 4x can work for self publishing that is not going into normal distribution).
6 - Add the fulfillment cost
7 - Add 10% (Kickstarter + Stripe fees)
8 - Add another 10% for overages and errors (because there are always unforseen costs that creep up)

That should give you a rough estimate of how much you need to charge per game and how much you need to fund on Kickstarter.

krone9
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I Will Never Grow Up Gaming

I Will Never Grow Up Gaming wrote:

If it's a Kickstarter, you also need to have those shipping costs included in the end price the backer will be paying up front. Nobody wants to be charged for shipping later in a second bill ("Oh hey, you gave us $X for the game .. I know it's a few months later, but now we need $Y for shipping thanks).
rter.

Not always true - for example nearly 30,000 people backing Rising Sun disagree with you :)

I Will Never Gr...
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krone9 wrote:I Will Never

krone9 wrote:
I Will Never Grow Up Gaming wrote:

If it's a Kickstarter, you also need to have those shipping costs included in the end price the backer will be paying up front. Nobody wants to be charged for shipping later in a second bill ("Oh hey, you gave us $X for the game .. I know it's a few months later, but now we need $Y for shipping thanks).
rter.

Not always true - for example nearly 30,000 people backing Rising Sun disagree with you :)

Yeah .. Miniatures heavy games with more minis being added as the campaign drags on are the clear exception to this. Rising Sun is also from a VERY well known publisher, so they also have that going for them (people know that the end shipping result will be actual shipping cost and not an arbitrary number that the creator came up with to cover shipping + whatever other costs he/she wants).

A game that is complete and/or may only have a few small items added (a couple of cards or tokens for example), the many, many thousands of people who will not back without shipping up front agree.

there are always exceptions to the rule .. always.

No Echo Games
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KS numbers, shipping, etc.

My first game is coming to Kickstarter and how did I work out the numbers? Well, it's taken me about one year to get ready to go. It's probably too hard to explain all the numbers involved, but there are a ton of things that you have to consider. I created my own KS Calculator in Excel that I might post on the forums to see if it benefits anyone else, because I couldn't find a calculator that seemed to explain the numbers I wanted to see. I'm sure there's some out there but I just never found them.

As for shipping, yes, that's a huge aspect to it. What I'm doing for my game is opening up shipping to overseas (I'm in the U.S.), but not any of the extra rewards. Shipping just the game is expensive enough but when you add extra items it makes it ridiculous.

I'm also using Amazon for fulfillment for shipping, and there are pros and cons to this but it's simpler to use, plus the benefit of an online store. Remember as well that you can store your items in Amazon warehouses, sell on Amazon, but also use them as your shipping when linked to other online stores like Ebay or Shopify.

At the end of the day it just takes research into each category of operating a business, and it's not quick and easy. However, once a foundation is laid and you gain experience on the business side of it then things do go easier.

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