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Games that takes to much time to make[2/2]

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larienna
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This thread is a part of a 2 thread group.

The first thread is located here

http://www.bgdf.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=4383

In the previous thread, I said that I wanted to supply with my game 3 campaing made of 10 adventures ( or missions ) for a war game.

Which makes in total 30 missions. Now the problem is that doing this requires a lot of development time.

First, it takes a lot of time to make the adventures, write the story and mission text for the players

Second it requires a lot of playtesting. Considering that in a war game, both players must havetheir chances to win (compared to a dungeon crawler where you only want the players to win), I will need to test each mission at least 3 to 5 times ( for a total of 90 to 150 test ). Making changes to maps would mean more playtesting. So not only I need to play test the game itself, but I must also playtest the missions.

Still what I have realised is if the war games contains a lot of random elements, there will require less play test to since the outcome can vary a lot. But for a game where the result is pretty much deterministic ( ex : The advance wars video game ), you'll need to play test more, or evaluate the possibilities, to determine if the map can be won.

Now I don't think that there is an easy way to determine if a mission is balanced on both side. Of course, a point system can help but there is also many factors that you cannot place a number on it ( ex: terrain advantage, ressource proximity or availability, objectives difficulty, etc ).

I am now reconsidering if it really worth it to make predefined missions or make any game that would require this kind of missions to works.

zircher
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Games that takes to much time to make[2/2]

One of the game mechanics that has always worked for me is that player A selects the map/sets the terrain and player B selects which side of the board they're going to come in on. This usually creates balanced terrain or allows for some form of elective handicapping.

Another idea I've been playing with is a small deck of generic objective cards that allows a player to earn extra victory points for achieving their hidden objectives. If you're using personalities, you can give them character flaws that can color their judgement.
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w0rf
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Games that takes to much time to make[2/2]

It seems to me the depth of detail in the objectives would largely depend on how "historical" you want the "simulation" to be. If you're going after a more general wargame, I think you're better off designing an area with a number of achievable objectives, and allow players the opportunity to fight for position within that context.

A way-off-genre example is The Journeys of Paul, a board game which is played through a card mechanic. The core gameplay is simple, each player must build a certain number of churches, as the apostle Paul did in the first century, and then be the first person to reach Rome to win. There are also City cards which give players a bonus for building churches in a particular city.

Now, there are two sets of rules, a simple version where each player is given certain city cards spaced out roughly equally, to give them all a similar bonus if they target the cities they were given by default, and an advanced version where City cards are dealt out at random. But the open-ended nature of the gameplay allows countless variations. You can mirror Paul's missionary journeys. You can build alphabetically. You can play a solitaire version, you versus the Event cards. You can set up the objectives basically any way you want.

The point here, and I don't know, maybe it won't cross over, is that by keeping the movement terrain and gameplay function somewhat open, it allows the players to be creative in setting their objectives, giving a lot of replayability to what otherwise might be a game to be played three times and collect dust in your closet.

Perhaps if the game is designed with a more general layout and allow players more freedom to conjure scenarios? You would still have to test for balance but you would be doing it based on the board layout and a pool of pre-conceived objectives, rather than testing each scenario individually.

larienna
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Games that takes to much time to make[2/2]

I like the idea of selecting map first and selecting positions after.

My maps are pretty much variable. I have 8 tilable map made of 2 part each that can be tiled with other map parts. So the terrain can vary a lot. Then you must add cities/buildings, define an area where you troop starts and select objectives.

But what I was not sure if people would be interested in playing a game where they must take the time to create a scenario before playing. They might more likely to want a have map indicating which map to select, where to place each unit, and what are the objectives.

Of course, if the game becomes popular, some people can make their own mission/adventure and distribute them.

As I compare with Dungeon and Dragon Miniature, there are various maps available and the objectives are always: "occupy a certain area to gain points". But the unit's are supplied from the players war band, it is not determined by the map. But I did not want to track army progression, so the units do not improves with battles.

Anyways, i'll think about it. I will probably make generic maps for each kind of missions and let the player decide their army composition. In this case, I wont bet responsible if there is a flaw in the troop balance. It will require much less playtesting, but there won't be an intense storyline for each misison.

TheReluctantGeneral
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Games that takes to much time to make[2/2]

Larienna wrote:

But what I was not sure if people would be interested in playing a game where they must take the time to create a scenario before playing. They might more likely to want a have map indicating which map to select, where to place each unit, and what are the objectives.

Some people will like it and some not. Personally, I really like this idea, as long as the scenario setup is interesting in and of itself. In which case, you have something that I have always been interested in creating - a game which has distinct phases, played sequentially where the results of the first phase influence outcomes of successive phases.

I think the key to making this work is to make the scenario setup as competitive as actually playing out the mission. If you can have some way by which players vie with one another to get the terrain then want deployed where they want it, and the right troops recruited, and resources placed in the right areas, then this could be really fun. If it was balanced right, each player would start with some basic objectives and perhaps a few initial resources in the way of cards/units etc, but the final setup[ of the scenario would be a mixture of each players ideal setup, which would then make for a very interesting resolution phase, in which players must adopt their initial plans to cope with the problems that their opponents play during the first phase has caused them.

Yopu could also use this initial phases for players to plan ambushes, traps and clever strategems, so that there is an element of hidden info in the first phase which could generate some real tension.

This idea also has the advantage that two reasonably matched players will balance the scenario themselves, and as long as there is some sligth randomness in assignment of inital objectives and resources, there will be an infinite number of interesting scenario possibilities.

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